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Author Topic: Another plane crash again. RIP MH17...  (Read 7060 times)

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« on: July 17, 2014, 20:59 »
0
and it's Malaysia's plane again...... :'(


Valo

« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2014, 01:27 »
0
A crash after it got shot down by Russian rebels. I wonder how this is going to develop. Surely this will have consequences.

ruxpriencdiam

    This user is banned.
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« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2014, 09:04 »
+1

« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2014, 17:37 »
+1
I know, I was confused at first. Someone on my fb wall posted about this one shot down, but I thought they were talking about the one that was missing from March was shot down. This airline must be about ready to go bankrupt from lawsuits. Even though it wasn't their fault someone shot a missile at them, the attorneys will claim they shouldn't have been flying there. Even tho the area they were in wasn't on the list of dangerous airspace. I feel bad for those who lost their lives onboard.  :(

« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2014, 17:43 »
+1
It seems like Putin was laughing at all this sanctions and kept sending mercenaries and weapons until this happens...

ruxpriencdiam

    This user is banned.
  • Location. Third stone from the sun
« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2014, 09:01 »
+1
Putin's latest hunting trophy


« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2014, 10:02 »
+4
^ I voted that down for being in very poor taste. It could have been any one of us on that flight. It's also a **** cartoon.

(I don't often vote things down and from now on have decided to say why if I do).

« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2014, 10:08 »
-1
I'd rather guess it were Ukrainian forces who shot this plane down.
No point for rebels to make themselves even more "evil" in the eyes of the world. That would be just stupid.

Anyway, I'm really sorry for the people died and believe that this incident is not a good thing to make jokes/cartoons/whatever about. I totally agree with bunhill on that.

« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2014, 11:34 »
-2
Niakris you are wrong. Nobody can be fooled about the authors. We no longer live in the era of Soviet lies and there are too many independent sources to know the truth.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 11:37 by photostockad »

« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2014, 12:44 »
-3
Let me guess, those "independent" sources are actually dependent on US/Ukraine?

Just think about the motivations and the truth will get obvious.
Imagine you're US government and want to build "evil" image of Russia to justify introducing more sanctions against it (because EU doesn't want to support you).
What would you do? May be just tell Ukraine to shoot some civil plane at the conflict area, make up some fake call audio confirming your words and claim that rebels did it.
This way EU will get scared of the "russian threat" and will agree to introduce more sanctions, etc. This way you will have your hands free to do whatever you like in the conflict region because the whole world will see it as a counter-terrorist actions.
Now this makes sense.

Modern world really needs some critical thinking instead of blindly believing to the propaganda and biased news.

===

Please lets stop arguing about who did this, the most important thing is that this is an awful tragedy and we all hope that such things will never happen again.

« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2014, 13:21 »
+4
Niakris you are wrong. Nobody can be fooled about the authors. We no longer live in the era of Soviet lies and there are too many independent sources to know the truth.

We do live exactly in era of lies even worse than ever before.  EU is being lead by bunch of liars who have never been elected by nobody, that cannot be removed by nobody  in exact same way that ex USSR used to function.

And peoples " right "  to vote is actually an obligation because any legal way to renounce that right and to get yourself deleted from voters list will lead a person nowhere.

About this case, one can only have opinion as both sides had motive to shoot an civil airplane down to make the other side look even worse and Im really sad that normal people like in that airplane are paying the price of political madness and conglomerate greed standing behind them witch are leading this world officially.


My condolences to all families and friends of people who were aboard

 
 

« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2014, 14:30 »
+3
I would blame mostly western leaders for repeating same mistake they did in past allowing Hitler invade Czechoslovakia. Now they let Putin take Crimea. Until now they could say it is not our problem somebody else is killed. Not any more, citizens from their countries got killed.

As far as crash is concerned it would not be resolved who did it:
1. There is regular war in this area when investigators reach the site it would be nothing to find. Weapons are already hidden or destroyed.
2. Whoever pulled the trigger is no longer among living cause only this person's confession could reveal who made it happen.

It is always like that politicians play games and innocent are paying the price.

« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2014, 14:54 »
0
The real cause of the whole Crimean conflict was the US inspiring the "revolution" in the Ukraine. Legal president was forced to leave the country under the threat of being killed/jailed. The new nationalist government would cancel the act allowing the Russia to keep its navy bases in the Crimea. This would be the pleasing result for the US but Putin couldn't let it of course.
Putin took Crimea just because he had to do it in order to protect navy bases in the Black Sea. I'm not saying in any way it was good. But he had no other choice.
So comparing him to Hitler makes as much sense as comparing any of the latest US presidents.

The whole second part of your post is very true though.
The most horrific part of the modern world is the people dying because of dirty politic games.

« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2014, 16:31 »
+7

« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2014, 18:12 »
+2
After the fall of USSR we thought that Russia will begin to understand and to live together with the rest of europeans but it seems that democracy is not compatible with autocracy.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 18:25 by photostockad »

« Reply #15 on: July 19, 2014, 18:43 »
+1



USA gets blamed for everything. That's because it's easy to do.  If none of those bases were there, we'd get blamed for anything that happens in those regions as a consequence of those bases not being there. And when something does happen we are always the first nation who is asked to help, give money, lend aid, lend military support, etc. We're not perfect for sure, but we are far better than virtually all of the nations looking to cause turmoil in the world.

Uncle Pete

« Reply #16 on: July 19, 2014, 21:27 »
+1
Tensions have been high between Ukraine and Russia since street protests forced former pro-Moscow President Viktor Yanukovych from power in February. Russia subsequently annexed Ukraine's southeastern Crimea region, and a pro-Russian separatist rebellion has been raging in Ukraine's eastern Luhansk and Donetsk regions.

All three groups have the surface to air missile that can do this. Each blames the other.

Someone want to bring up gun control in the US again at this point.  :o All these groups control weapons that can shoot down an airliner. What about former Soviet Union weapons control? This is Insane!


« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2014, 01:30 »
+4



USA gets blamed for everything. That's because it's easy to do.  If none of those bases were there, we'd get blamed for anything that happens in those regions as a consequence of those bases not being there. And when something does happen we are always the first nation who is asked to help, give money, lend aid, lend military support, etc. We're not perfect for sure, but we are far better than virtually all of the nations looking to cause turmoil in the world.


Please give a single example where someone asked US for the military support & help.
Most of the time it is the US invading some country claiming they have nuclear weapons/no democracy/whatever while the only real guilt of the target country is that they have the oil and refuse to follow the US directions. And no, they didn't ask for that "help".

« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2014, 04:48 »
+1

Please give a single example where someone asked US for the military support & help.
Most of the time it is the US invading some country claiming they have nuclear weapons/no democracy/whatever while the only real guilt of the target country is that they have the oil and refuse to follow the US directions. And no, they didn't ask for that "help".

I'll give you 2 off the top of my head but there's plenty more. Kuwait after having been invaded by Iraq. Britain during the Falklands War (the US provided material support for British operations).

Oh ... and not to mention the minor matter of the USA support of the Allies in the 1st & 2nd World Wars.

« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2014, 05:32 »
-1
US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.

Anyway, I don't see how that picture above can become incorrect due to the "help" argument.

« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2014, 06:49 »
-1
US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.

Anyway, I don't see how that picture above can become incorrect due to the "help" argument.

This is an opinion, so it is invalid as a fact. Gostwyck provided several facts for which you draw a conclusion based on opinion.  As for the help argument I am not sure where you are getting that from.  I said they would be asking for help if those bases weren't there, similar to what Gostywyck pointed out.  No matter what our individual positions are, this whole thing stinks. Once the USA didn't act when Syria used gas (crossed the red line) Putin knew Obama was a *, all theoretic, and it was easy for him to invade Ukraine without fear of USA reprisal. And so far he was right.

« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2014, 06:59 »
+5
Actually all this discussion is just speculation based on the publicly available information (and most of it is either plain lie or at least biased).
We don't know for sure what is happening in all these places.
Besides that, our own opinion is also biased.
Thus, the discussion is pointless. We are throwing our opinions into it and claim these opinions are facts while this is not the case.

I think we should stop it since this topic is about the tragedy happened and it is not suited for the endless discussion about politics.

« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2014, 07:31 »
+2
Once the USA didn't act when Syria used gas (crossed the red line) Putin knew Obama was a *, all theoretic, and it was easy for him to invade Ukraine without fear of USA reprisal. And so far he was right.

Wrong there. It was actually the 'rebels' that deployed the Sarin gas against the Syrian population NOT Assad. It was later proved from the gas signature. That's why Obama didn't act.

Even at the time I found it incredible that Assad would have deployed the gas as he would gain no benefit and had much to lose. The rebels, on the other hand, had everything to gain if they could provoke the US into action.

StockPhotosArt.com

« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2014, 08:03 »
-1
---

Mark Windom Photography

« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2014, 09:36 »
+1
US joined the WWII on the winning side only after it became pretty obvious which side is winning.
So this example is not valid.

Ever hear of Pearl Harbor?  That's what got us into WWII and, at that point, it certainly was not obvious who was winning.  So, this example is very valid.


 

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