Quote from: Nikovsk on March 30, 2016, 10:24

Trump understands economy more than all the others combined, his 35% tax on foreign goods from specific countries would create millions of jobs for anybody who's willing to work. His crackdown on illegal immigration would benefit lower class citizens more than anyone else. Only the free-crap army won't like it.

These are far from being libertarian concepts!
Trump promotes protectionism and isolation, instead of free trade. Protectionism protects jobs in inefficient parts of the economy. This leads to less choices, lower quality products for higher prices. Consumers will end up subsidizing these "protected" labor intensive jobs.

Free trade creates jobs in the areas where US is strong and competitive and consumers benefit from it.

I said it before, when China gets US dollars for performing manufacturing jobs with with no qualification required, they must spend these dollars on something. They will spend these dollars on american goods and services, with a lot of embedded intelligence, creating high quality jobs, and stimulating american workers to continuously improve their qualifications.

Taxation of foreign goods will promote inefficiency instead of stimulating american competitiveness.

Free trade means progress, prosperity, peace.

So that "job creation" is a HUGE fallacy like all other HUGE things Trump promotes.
And BTW, Sanders is equally wrong on this topic.

Even you don't believe that Trump will impose a 35% tax. I don't believe it. He's just saying it to get support.

I think Donald Trump is great!

Just what the establishment needs a good kick up the pants to the vested interests

And he's actually more liberal than Cruz

 

Except that in the dictionary, under "vested interest", it says "see Trump, Donald".   

Yes it's competitive in a few sectors of the economy that happens to hire very few people.
You cannot have a 300 million population country based on technology sector.

By the way Boeing just fired more than 4,500 workers.
Unemployment is getting higher and higher, poverty is going up very quickly. It's not working.

There are not enough jobs that require qualification, and no environment encouraging small businesses.
People are sick and tired of cronyism and that's why they're flocking to Trump and Sanders.

As long as China accepts US dollars in exchange for t-shirts, it means they need American products to spend their dollars on (unless they are fine working for free). Creating those american products require better jobs than t-shirt manufacturing, "believe me" (as Trump loves to say, when he doesn't have arguments, lol 

These simple economical facts seems to elude the understanding of Trump the economical expert, "believe me"

And all stats shows a rather decent level of unemployment in US compared with other economies, but for Trump even small numbers are HUGE (he said unemployment is 42%, lol)

Trump, Feb. 9: I am going to be the greatest jobs president that God ever created. Remember that. Don�t believe those phony numbers, when you hear 4.9 and 5% unemployment.

The number�s probably 28, 29, as high as 35. In fact, I even heard recently 42%. Do you think we�d have gatherings like this if we had, if we had 5% unemployment, do you really think we�d have these gatherings?

Quote from: topol on March 24, 2016, 15:01

Quote from: Zero Talent on March 24, 2016, 14:57

Quote from: topol on March 24, 2016, 14:47

Quote from: Zero Talent on March 24, 2016, 13:44

Quote from: Nikovsk on March 24, 2016, 12:41

Topol is a breath of fresh air in all this hardcore leftist rhetoric.

Nope.
The truth is that, when you exhale such thoughts, the air is far from being fresh, Mr. Jirinovsky/Putin/Trump fan.
This stench is as old as WWII.

The nazi card - the ultimate escape for hatemongers when they have absolutely no arguments.

btw, do you know who invented this "rethoric" of calling people *, to shut them up when you are loosing an argument? Stalin. That was his advice to his diplomats.

Right. Let's add Stalin to your fan club. Because this is exactly what Trump does these days: calling people *, because he never has facts to back-up his statements...Mr. Jirinovsky/Putin/Trump/Stalin fan

You are the owner fo your n a z i   c a r d, you pulled it, don't try smear that on me, how is that even come up??

You must be living in a bubble with very distorted reflections of yourself, if you don't see the obvious similarities between the 4 "gentlemen" mentioned above. FYI, WWII doesn't only mean extreme nationalism = nazi (despite the indoctrination you might have been subject of, since YOU mentioned it). It means dictatorship, either fascist or communist. It means autocratic "beloved" leaders. It means loss of liberties and freedom. It means police state. It means war.

It means fear.

Or pretty much everything Trump stands and preys for.

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Communism didn't start with WWII, at least get your basic history right before you go off an uneducated rant. Marx published "the ideology" around 1840, USSR formed in 1922... so the rest is jut nonsense, the dictatorial political force that started the war was the *, nobody else. Tipical, the one who knows next to nothing about what he's talking about is the first to throw around "indoctrination"

On the same page: Trump is the most anti war candidate next to Bernie... and this meme of comparing him to na z i s , hitler, was invented by marketing ppl hired by the big money establishment, targetting the most unreasonable, emotion driven, angry leftist voters.

Bernie is a bait and switch.

He points to the 1% as the problem but if he gets elected he will tax the stuffing out of everyone but the 1%. Apparently he had his honeymoon in the communist soviet union. It's unbelievable!

The brain boxes will leave the USA.

I can't even fathom how how simple you have to be to think he is less of hypocrite than the rest of the politicians. Bernie The Bomber, posing with killer mike going for the minority vote, and riding phoney nonexistent issues like the gender wage gap. Bernie exposes how ppl are just ultra-mega-giga dupes.

Quote from: cascoly on March 29, 2016, 13:52

first, a large proportion of that 10% is INHERITED wealth

but bigger factor is that any increased tax is on INCOME not total wealth -- so even doubling the current tax rate on  this 10% would do little harm to their actual wealth or spending

I think you mistaken the top 10% for the top 1%. Generalizations like yours is what's wrong with this whole debate. If you make over $110k, you are considered to be in the top 10%. And if you live in the San Francisco Bay Area, that money doesn't get you very far

I was referring to top 10% of NET WORTH not annual income being mostly inherited.

And socialism doesn't create jobs, unless it's in the public sector...because we'll need more people to distribute that extra money. Socialism discourages competition and reduces urgency for everyone. I don't like Corporations getting bailed out as much anyone, but it's just as bad to bail out the parasitic non-productive part of society that also happens to offer nothing other than leech off the productive.

Society need to stop hating on the rich, or you may end up hating yourself one day.

nonsense - all the industrial nations of Europe have some form of socialism - rather than demonizing it like the right wing does here in the US, European nations h ave taken a variety of socialist positions and have created jobs while doing so

it's not a matter of hating the rich - it's making our GDP work -- when we bailed out the banks, they were supposed to feed that capital back into the market, but they didn't -- instead we should have let their stock go to $0, hitting the speculators, and turned their bonds into new stock with the govt preventing bankruptcies if need be -- that way those responsible for the recession would have paid for it, and the govt could recover its investments if the banks reorganized and showed a profit

I'm much less concerned about a few people on the bottom of the income well 'taking advantage' than those who skim BILLIONS from the top without contributing to the economy

.....

I agree that the State and Religion should be separate entities or you end up with situations like Sharia Law or the Holy Roman Empire, both of which were terrible to live under.

you really do need to read a bit more history -- the Holy Roman Empire didn't cause half the problems that your protestant revolution did  -- climaxing in the 30 years war that wiped out large chunks of Europe

and meanwhile average life in the Ottoman empire bettered that of most of Europe - certainly wrt religious tolerance - eg, when Spain threw out the Jews, they found new homes and prospered in the Ottoman Empire

. With the exception that Clinton is a proven criminal that helped destroy Syria and Libya. Expect more wars, more debt and more government with those three. ....

absolute nonsense - the mideastern problems were created by Bush & Rumsfeld who lied about WMD and promised the war would be short and pay for itself -- instead 20 years later we're still dealing with Bush's disastrous foreign policy

Quote from: goober on March 29, 2016, 21:54

Trump wants to make America great again. What made America great? Protestant Christianity, Calvinism in particular, gave rise to these ideas which were put into practice:

Private ownership of land and property rather than serfdom or slavery was preferable.
Doing right by your neighbour as you would have them do to you allows businesses to flourish.
Unjust scales and weights were an abomination. No fractional reserve money printing.
Charity was voluntary and nobody gives more than protestant Christians.
Husbands loving wives and wives respecting husbands, working together, statistically eliminates poverty.
Protestant work ethic produces prosperity.
Families and Churches take care of elders, widows and orphans - everyone else works.
Limited government and taxation needed due to people taking care of themselves and those around them.
Less sins like murder and theft means less destruction and cost to the community.
Not bearing false witness allows innocent people to live peacefully without fear of retribution.

These are fairy tales. Pixelbytes is right.

What made America great was a long period of true economical freedom (long gone now).
A period when private initiatives, entrepreneurship, new ideas could flourish unincombered by taxation, regulations and other bureaucratic government interventions.


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There are secular historians who acknowledge the influence of Calvanism, the puritans and the great awakenings on America even if they don't believe in the tenets of protestant Christianity.

nonsense - all the industrial nations of Europe have some form of socialism - rather than demonizing it like the right wing does here in the US, European nations h ave taken a variety of socialist positions and have created jobs while doing so

it's not a matter of hating the rich - it's making our GDP work -- when we bailed out the banks, they were supposed to feed that capital back into the market, but they didn't -- instead we should have let their stock go to $0, hitting the speculators, and turned their bonds into new stock with the govt preventing bankruptcies if need be -- that way those responsible for the recession would have paid for it, and the govt could recover its investments if the banks reorganized and showed a profit

I'm much less concerned about a few people on the bottom of the income well 'taking advantage' than those who skim BILLIONS from the top without contributing to the economy

The banks make up a tiny percentage of ALL industries. Yes, they benefited, but that's no longer the point. That has nothing to do with the current issue at hand. The issue here is whether America should be a socialist country and the the answer is NO.

America already has socialist programs. Welfare, public housing, food assistant and various other public programs. Our GDP is fine as it is, socialism would destroy it. It would destroy all that is good about the United States. Ever since the implementation of socialism, what the good came out of England? What good came out of France? What exports do they have? What innovations do they have? I can't think of anything.

American capitalism is the reason why we have so much innovation and so much progress. Every Windows machine, ever Macbook, every iPhone and every Android phone originated in the US because Capitalism encourages competition, entrepreneurship and innovation. Socialism would destroy much of that entrepreneurship.

Socialism encourages laziness and entitlement. Capitalism benefits the intelligent and hard working. This country doesn't need socialism, a system that's quite good at spreading misery to everyone except for the parasites of society.

... Ever since the implementation of socialism, what the good came out of England?....

Historically, the greatest inventors came from Scotland, they would probably prefer you call it the UK than England.  Since Margaret Thatcher became prime minister in 1979, socialism in the UK was virtually wiped out.  Labour did try and revive it but apart from the NHS, we are much closer to the US on the political spectrum than in the 1970's.  We do have our version of Bernie Sanders leading the Labour party now but he is unpopular in his own party and might not make it to the next election.

Something good has come out of England in recent times.  Apart from the inventor of the world wide web, without whom we might not be having this discussion, I think graphene is about as spectacular as we will see this century. http://www.graphene.manchester.ac.uk/

Something beyond water boarding probably, plus killing your whole family, since he also calls for doing that.

Quote from: cascoly on March 30, 2016, 18:16

nonsense - all the industrial nations of Europe have some form of socialism - rather than demonizing it like the right wing does here in the US, European nations h ave taken a variety of socialist positions and have created jobs while doing so

it's not a matter of hating the rich - it's making our GDP work -- when we bailed out the banks, they were supposed to feed that capital back into the market, but they didn't -- instead we should have let their stock go to $0, hitting the speculators, and turned their bonds into new stock with the govt preventing bankruptcies if need be -- that way those responsible for the recession would have paid for it, and the govt could recover its investments if the banks reorganized and showed a profit

I'm much less concerned about a few people on the bottom of the income well 'taking advantage' than those who skim BILLIONS from the top without contributing to the economy

The banks make up a tiny percentage of ALL industries. Yes, they benefited, but that's no longer the point. That has nothing to do with the current issue at hand. The issue here is whether America should be a socialist country and the the answer is NO.

America already has socialist programs. Welfare, public housing, food assistant and various other public programs. Our GDP is fine as it is, socialism would destroy it. It would destroy all that is good about the United States. Ever since the implementation of socialism, what the good came out of England? What good came out of France? What exports do they have? What innovations do they have? I can't think of anything.

American capitalism is the reason why we have so much innovation and so much progress. Every Windows machine, ever Macbook, every iPhone and every Android phone originated in the US because Capitalism encourages competition, entrepreneurship and innovation. Socialism would destroy much of that entrepreneurship.

Socialism encourages laziness and entitlement. Capitalism benefits the intelligent and hard working. This country doesn't need socialism, a system that's quite good at spreading misery to everyone except for the parasites of society.

Just saving this for a laugh later. In case you do some research and edit it.