Author Topic: UFOs now called UAP (Unidentified Aerial Phenomenon) Crowd Stories and photos. (Read 98637 times)

cascoly · « **Reply #700 on:** May 31, 2024, 13:54 »

Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46

Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 30, 2024, 12:40

Where do you find the truth and facts, when most of the UAP information is mistaken, mis-identification or made up fabrications and distortions. How's that for science. Lets have some evidence to back the claims. I'd go for that.

Claims need proof.

...

- There is no proof of dark matter. And yet the mainstream accepts it. It was invented to prop up the prevalent model of the universe. But a working model, even if it fits the data, is not the same as proof. To understand what "proof" is, check how Pythagorean theorem is proven (spoiler: not by testing dozens of triangles).

So, dark matter was hypothesized in order to explain observations (data) within the assumed laws of physics. It could be right, I am not saying anything. Without dark matter/dark energy we have a gigantic anomaly within the current paradigm.

...

you lack (or ignore) an understanding of the scientific method - dark matter & energy - no one claims there's any proof - but you yourself acknowledge current data is explained by such a hypotheses. unlike pseudo-sciece like ufology, real science proposes models and then designs falsifiable experiments to confirm, reject or improve the hypothesis.

instead of presenting actual facts and testable hypotheses, ufo cultists rely on personal attacks against their skeptics,

cascoly · « **Reply #701 on:** May 31, 2024, 13:58 »

Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 17:06

...
Nobody owes you any "proof", as a hypothesis doesn't require a proof. You may continue to believe in swamp gas stories, if you want....

sure, you don't 'owe' anything, but no one should take seriously extraordinary claims without actual facts to back them up (not someone's third h and hearsay, or concluding that classification of information is proof of their mythology)

LDV81 · « **Reply #702 on:** June 01, 2024, 15:51 »

Quote from: cascoly on May 31, 2024, 13:54

Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 30, 2024, 12:40

Where do you find the truth and facts, when most of the UAP information is mistaken, mis-identification or made up fabrications and distortions. How's that for science. Lets have some evidence to back the claims. I'd go for that.

Claims need proof.

...

- There is no proof of dark matter. And yet the mainstream accepts it. It was invented to prop up the prevalent model of the universe. But a working model, even if it fits the data, is not the same as proof. To understand what "proof" is, check how Pythagorean theorem is proven (spoiler: not by testing dozens of triangles).

So, dark matter was hypothesized in order to explain observations (data) within the assumed laws of physics. It could be right, I am not saying anything. Without dark matter/dark energy we have a gigantic anomaly within the current paradigm.

...

you lack (or ignore) an understanding of the scientific method - dark matter & energy - no one claims there's any proof - but you yourself acknowledge current data is explained by such a hypotheses. unlike pseudo-sciece like ufology, real science proposes models and then designs falsifiable experiments to confirm, reject or improve the hypothesis.

instead of presenting actual facts and testable hypotheses, ufo cultists rely on personal attacks against their skeptics,

I guess you also draw your knowledge about the history of ancient Rome, Greece or World War I from "falsifiable experiments".

When you are presented facts, then you are stunned and resort to insults or crude, hardly funny jokes. You don't want any proof for things that are unproven but are consistent with your belief system and your dogmas.

You don't have any courage to offer a competitive hypothesis or contribute something constructive. You simply try to discredit all those who tackle the subject in one way or another.

You don't qualify as a skeptic. You are not interested in transparency at all. You don't seek the truth, you just stick to your dogmas. That is pseudo-skepticism / scientism. You are very biased, possibly as a result of decades-long brainwashing and disinformation. I don't think you have good will and integrity. Discussion with you is an intellectually underwhelming activity, it is similar to talking to an islamist or a trumpist.

cascoly · « **Reply #703 on:** June 01, 2024, 19:08 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 01, 2024, 15:51

Quote from: cascoly on May 31, 2024, 13:54
Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46
Quote from: Uncle Pete on May 30, 2024, 12:40

Where do you find the truth and facts, when most of the UAP information is mistaken, mis-identification or made up fabrications and distortions. How's that for science. Lets have some evidence to back the claims. I'd go for that.

Claims need proof.

...

- There is no proof of dark matter. And yet the mainstream accepts it. It was invented to prop up the prevalent model of the universe. But a working model, even if it fits the data, is not the same as proof. To understand what "proof" is, check how Pythagorean theorem is proven (spoiler: not by testing dozens of triangles).

So, dark matter was hypothesized in order to explain observations (data) within the assumed laws of physics. It could be right, I am not saying anything. Without dark matter/dark energy we have a gigantic anomaly within the current paradigm.

...

you lack (or ignore) an understanding of the scientific method - dark matter & energy - no one claims there's any proof - but you yourself acknowledge current data is explained by such a hypotheses. unlike pseudo-sciece like ufology, real science proposes models and then designs falsifiable experiments to confirm, reject or improve the hypothesis.

instead of presenting actual facts and testable hypotheses, ufo cultists rely on personal attacks against their skeptics,

I guess you also draw your knowledge about the history of ancient Rome, Greece or World War I from "falsifiable experiments".

When you are presented facts, then you are stunned and resort to insults or crude, hardly funny jokes. You don't want any proof for things that are unproven but are consistent with your belief system and your dogmas.

You don't have any courage to offer a competitive hypothesis or contribute something constructive. You simply try to discredit all those who tackle the subject in one way or another.

You don't qualify as a skeptic. You are not interested in transparency at all. You don't seek the truth, you just stick to your dogmas. That is pseudo-skepticism / scientism. You are very biased, possibly as a result of decades-long brainwashing and disinformation. I don't think you have good will and integrity. Discussion with you is an intellectually underwhelming activity, it is similar to talking to an islamist or a trumpist.

you don't get to tell me my qualifications as a skeptic or my religious beliefs (why didnt you call me out as an evangelical rather than an Islamist?)

as usual, you attack the messenger, since you have no actual evidence on your side.

you continue to display ignorance of the scientific method (ie, lack of knowledge, not stupidity - unlike you i make no silly claims about your thought processes, intellectual capacity or ideological beliefs, and don't try to define who can be a skeptic)
>>>
I guess you also draw your knowledge about the history of ancient Rome, Greece or World War I from "falsifiable experiments".
<<<

these are matters of HISTORY, not scientific theories - a one time event, non-repeateatable, and not subject to the scientific method - but even here, discussions are based on FACTS, not unsupported theories about Jewish space lasers as the cause of forest fires. you resort to ad hominem attacks since you have no actual evidence of non-terrestrial visits

LDV81 · « **Reply #704 on:** June 01, 2024, 19:46 »

Quote from: cascoly on June 01, 2024, 19:08

Quote from: LDV81 on June 01, 2024, 15:51

I guess you also draw your knowledge about the history of ancient Rome, Greece or World War I from "falsifiable experiments".
these are matters of HISTORY, not scientific theories - a one time event, non-repeateatable, and not subject to the scientific method - but even here, discussions are based on FACTS, not unsupported theories about Jewish space lasers as the cause of forest fires.

Ha ha, you dig your own grave. Things said by Grusch, like the alleged Magenta crash in 1933 and subsequent crash retrievals, are EXACTLY THAT: non-repeatable events!!! Even individual UFO incidents (e.g. the Nimitz incident) are that: EVENTS. I am not saying at this point that what Grusch says must be true. I am not taking a position, I am just curious and want more info. They might be factual events or alleged events - but in their nature they are just that: events, whether true or misrepresented. Just like events from the history of ancient Greece.

Grusch is a serious professional tasked with this investigation by the US government. It was his job. He gave his testimony under oath. The Inspector General deemed the classified evidence provided by Grusch to be "credible". Grusch's superior and another admiral confirmed his claims. The investigation is ONGOING in the Congress. These are FACTS!

Therefore, your demands for repeatable "falsifiable experiments" in the context of Grusch's testimony are complete BS and simply DISHONEST!

Apparently, part of the Congress wants much more transparency in this subject, while the other part wants to prevent transparency at all cost and blocked the Schumer amendment. These are ALL FACTS! Why would more transparency be bad and sweeping the thing under the carpet good?

Was Grusch in the position to gain such knowledge? If we give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that the claims are true, then yes - due to the nature of his work and having all the necessary clearances, he absolutely was in the position to acquire such knowledge. It was his job. He is not another Bob Lazar.

The Nimitz incident is a factual EVENT, confirmed by witnesses and sensor data. You may interpret that EVENT as you want, just don't demand some "experiments" about it.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #705 on:** June 04, 2024, 10:35 »

But there is transparency, investigation, collection and facts are presented. Just that "some people" won't believe anything, except what they want to see and hear. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/us/politics/nasa-ufo-hearing.html

The All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) is an office within the United States Office of the Secretary of Defense that investigates unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and other phenomena in the air, sea, and/or space and/or on land: sometimes referred to as "unidentified aerial phenomena" or "unidentified anomalous phenomena" (UAP). Its first director was physicist Sean Kirkpatrick, and its current acting director is Tim Phillips, who reports to Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks.

You want fair? "A Nasa probe into hundreds of UFO sightings found there was no evidence aliens were behind the unexplained phenomena, but the space agency also could not rule out that possibility."

Here are the facts:

Nicola Fox, the associate administrator for Nasa's Science Mission Directorate, said: "UAP are one of our planet's greatest mysteries" and that is mainly because of the lack of high quality data.

Despite numerous reported UAP sightings, Ms Fox said there typically isn't enough data that "can be used to make definitive scientific conclusions about the nature and origin of UAP".

Not enough high quality data. Not data to make scientific conclusions. And when a balloon floats across a video, out of focus, a bunch of UFO believers, want to claim it's some mystery. When the UFO is identified, they won't accept the truth.

You see, The Truth is Out There. Just that the fringe science advocates, won't believe or accept the truth.

LDV81 · « **Reply #706 on:** June 04, 2024, 14:19 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 04, 2024, 10:35

But there is transparency, investigation, collection and facts are presented. Just that "some people" won't believe anything, except what they want to see and hear. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/31/us/politics/nasa-ufo-hearing.html

The All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) is an office within the United States Office of the Secretary of Defense that investigates unidentified flying objects (UFOs) and other phenomena in the air, sea, and/or space and/or on land: sometimes referred to as "unidentified aerial phenomena" or "unidentified anomalous phenomena" (UAP). Its first director was physicist Sean Kirkpatrick, and its current acting director is Tim Phillips, who reports to Deputy Defense Secretary Kathleen Hicks.

Are you joking? AARO and transparency?

https://x.com/rosscoulthart/status/1785822548963492054

Also, Kirkpatrick was proven to lie by Fugal... And I am not a fan of Fugal. But I am not sure if Kirkpatrick can be trusted at all. He has a terrible reputation. AARO is selling the same old stories to its audience stuck in the past. But after Grusch, such stories are insufficient. A sequel to swamp gas stories, weather balloons will no longer do after Grusch. Has AARO actually solved any interesting cases, like provided an explanation, e.g. for the Nimitz incident?

Kirkpatrick likes to use the term "extraterrestrial" in his statements, whereas Grusch tends to "NHI", which is a broader term. So, theoretically Kirkpatrick's statements could be logically true, but not apply to factors that are NHI but not extraterrestrial. Perhaps he is covering his ass in this way, who knows...

Grusch gave his testimony under oath, the penalty for lying in this context is jail. Kirkpatrick said nothing under oath, AFAIK.

You want true transparency? True transparency was in the Schumer amendment, with its eminent domain clause.

Did AARO go to the addresses presumably provided by Grusch to IG? If what Grusch said under oath is true, then AARO is probably rather in the business of covering it up.

The interesting stuff may be held by private contractors. If there is nothing to hide, why was Schumer amendment blocked???

Grusch's info + Schumer's amendment with eminent domain clause would probably be game over.

What is obvious now is that there is an ongoing struggle between pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions in Washington and elsewhere. Schumer and Rounds are not some clowns, they are heavyweights in Washington, and if they pushed for such legislation, they must have received some important info or leaks.

Stuff is flying in the skies and submerges underwater, doing maneuvers well beyond human mainstream understanding of physics. For pilots, reporting UFOs in the past was a career-ending move for decades. Stigmatization and ridicule. WHY? Now, we have a change of tune, although some people still haven't got the memo.

LDV81 · « **Reply #707 on:** June 04, 2024, 15:48 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 04, 2024, 10:35

You want fair? "A Nasa probe into hundreds of UFO sightings found there was no evidence aliens were behind the unexplained phenomena, but the space agency also could not rule out that possibility."

Here are the facts:

Nicola Fox, the associate administrator for Nasa's Science Mission Directorate, said: "UAP are one of our planet's greatest mysteries" and that is mainly because of the lack of high quality data.

Despite numerous reported UAP sightings, Ms Fox said there typically isn't enough data that "can be used to make definitive scientific conclusions about the nature and origin of UAP".

So, you have some lady saying some platitudes that are completely uninteresting and don't bring anything new to the table. In other news, cloudless sky is blue during daytime. On the other side, you have widely respected people like Grusch, Nell, Gallaudet or even Nolan, who really were in the position to acquire insider/classified knowledge (if such relevant knowledge exists) and they say that they are absolutely sure that there is NHI involvement in the phenomenon. And those people have nothing to gain from it, they only risk being ridiculed.

cascoly · « **Reply #708 on:** June 04, 2024, 20:16 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 04, 2024, 14:19

...
What is obvious now is that there is an ongoing struggle between pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions in Washington and elsewhere. Schumer and Rounds are not some clowns, they are heavyweights in Washington, and if they pushed for such legislation, they must have received some important info or leaks.

Stuff is flying in the skies and submerges underwater, doing maneuvers well beyond human mainstream understanding of physics. For pilots, reporting UFOs in the past was a career-ending move for decades. Stigmatization and ridicule. WHY? Now, we have a change of tune, although some people still haven't got the memo.

you assume the only possibility is Schumer has rec'd info that would support your case (testimony under oath about hearsay re non-factual evidence is worthless which is why it's rejected in most court proceedings) - but there are other explanations you refuse to consider - eg, it could reveal confidential information about our intelligence methods, which are much more likely than your unsupported conspiracy theories.

and as always you attack the messengers rather than presenting any actual, factual evidence. i could testify truthfully that a professor friend of mine told me he saw a unicorn - does that establish their existence? i was under oath - does that mean there's govt conspiracy to suppress the underground unicorn conspiracy?a witness may be under oath, but their hearsay testimony is not.

LDV81 · « **Reply #709 on:** June 05, 2024, 07:36 »

Quote from: cascoly on June 04, 2024, 20:16

you assume the only possibility is Schumer has rec'd info that would support your case (testimony under oath about hearsay re non-factual evidence is worthless which is why it's rejected in most court proceedings) - but there are other explanations you refuse to consider - eg, it could reveal confidential information about our intelligence methods, which are much more likely than your unsupported conspiracy theories.

Again, you post nonsense. There were mechanisms for withholding certain information, if there is a justified reason to do so. And there was even an option to withhold anything for up to 25 years, even without an important reason!

Giving the federal government eminent domain over something that either doesn't exist, is hearsay or natural phenomena, suddenly is a security risk. Strangely, the amendment was passed in the Senate.

"The amendment would require the U.S. National Archives and Records Administration to collect UAP records from all relevant government offices under “a presumption of immediate disclosure,” and a review board would have to provide a rationale for keeping documents classified.

Under the measure, records must be publicly disclosed in full no later than 25 years after they were created unless the U.S. president certifies that continued postponement is necessary because of a direct harm to national security."

"It also establishes that the federal government would have "eminent domain" over any recovered technologies of unknown origin and any biological evidence of "non-human intelligence" that may be controlled by private individuals or entities."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/senators-move-require-release-us-government-ufo-records-2023-07-14/

Anyway, after decades of denialism and stigmatization, there is shockingly strong language in the amendment. Something has changed. The very fact that such an amendment was even considered, is very interesting.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #710 on:** June 05, 2024, 09:44 »

I presented the factual information, you reject that and continue with the fantasy and fabrications. When you present FACTS, we can have a discussion.

Being you are involved in photo and video you should understand Bokeh and how some of the UFOs are nothing but out of focus video. When an infrared camera sights a balloon, and the camera is not for making realistic video, the UFO people latch on and start weaving a large story from a tiny thread. When a sighting is nothing but a bug on the windshield, or misidentified, distant reflections, of a known object, it is no longer a UFO or UAP.

That's #1 = mistaken.

#2 is made up, that's the fakes and frauds, which there are plenty. How's Gulf Breeze as a good example? Book after book, claims of coming soon, reports with nothing behind them, except someone says. If you want explained and unexplained, how about you look at the number of explained and the number of frauds and fakes. This makes the "best evidence" look pretty sad and unreliable.

#3 is mental illness, but imagination, hallucination, schizophrenia, and events such as, dreams that they have been abducted. So I mean mental conditions, not as calling them crazy, but instead, a medical condition that creates an honest belief or feeling, that what they see, is real.

After all of that, and of course anything that comes from resources that don't agree with your preconceived conclusions, here's what NASA actually says:

The key recommendations outlined are:

Play a larger role in the government-wide effort to understand UAP, using an evidence-based approach rooted in science

Utilise its existing Earth observation tools, such as satellites, to investigate whether there are environmental conditions associated with UAP

Enhance collaborations with the private US space industry, which offer powerful constellations of satellites, to look out for UAPs so we are less reliant on grainy camera footage for potential sightings

Consider how AI and machine learning can be leveraged to help detect UAP and gather more data around sightings

Improve public engagement, perhaps by looking into the development of a smartphone app to gather imaging data from citizen observers

Better leverage the existing reporting system for commercial pilots who believe they have witnessed a UAP

An intelligent gathering of data from reliable sources and means. Why are you against that?

Something that's unexplained is not proof of something else being real. It's just a mystery.

LDV81 · « **Reply #711 on:** June 05, 2024, 09:56 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 05, 2024, 09:44

An intelligent gathering of data from reliable sources and means. Why are you against that?

What are you talking about???!!! Of course, I am for gathering of reliable data!!! You're building your strawman again and burning it???

The Pentagon released 3 cases with sensor data in 2017. But it was admitted that it was just the tip of an iceberg. They had many more truly unexplained cases that were not released. "Truly unexplained" means military experts tended to rule out prosaic explanations.

And anyway, if Grusch's info is correct and Schumer amendment came into force it would all be of little relevance and your religion would crumble.

Uncle Pete · « **Reply #712 on:** June 05, 2024, 10:09 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 09:56

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 05, 2024, 09:44

An intelligent gathering of data from reliable sources and means. Why are you against that?

What are you talking about???!!! Of course, I am for gathering of reliable data!!! You're building your strawman again and burning it???

The Pentagon released 3 cases with sensor data in 2017. But it was admitted that it was just the tip of an iceberg. They had many more truly unexplained cases that were not released. "Truly unexplained" means military experts tended to rule out prosaic explanations.

And anyway, if Grusch's info is correct and Schumer amendment came into force it would all be of little relevance and your religion would crumble.

Grusch's accusations have no evidence behind them. He knows someone who says something, he claims to have been told, but he can't say who or what.

Yup, you are back into IF instead of real facts.

Unexplained is not something, it's still unexplained. You make the fact that something can't be explained, even if it's mistaken, fraud or mental illness and claim the unexplained makes it real? Sorry but, Unexplained = Unexplained.

You reject this:

Play a larger role in the government-wide effort to understand UAP, using an evidence-based approach rooted in science

Utilise its existing Earth observation tools, such as satellites, to investigate whether there are environmental conditions associated with UAP

Enhance collaborations with the private US space industry, which offer powerful constellations of satellites, to look out for UAPs so we are less reliant on grainy camera footage for potential sightings

Consider how AI and machine learning can be leveraged to help detect UAP and gather more data around sightings

Improve public engagement, perhaps by looking into the development of a smartphone app to gather imaging data from citizen observers

Better leverage the existing reporting system for commercial pilots who believe they have witnessed a UAP

Tell me why?

LDV81 · « **Reply #713 on:** June 05, 2024, 10:36 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 05, 2024, 09:44

Something that's unexplained is not proof of something else being real. It's just a mystery.

Yes, it is a mystery until we find out what is behind that. The problem is that you assume all mysteries must be man-made or natural phenomena and all people who put forward other hypotheses must be frauds or "believers".

I say I don't know and I would like to find out. If there are objects displaying characteristics well beyond current human mainstream understanding of physics, then it is possible that non-human intelligent beings are involved.

Stop ridiculing and discrediting serious people who advocate for disclosure of existing data.

LDV81 · « **Reply #714 on:** June 05, 2024, 10:38 »

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 05, 2024, 10:09

You reject this:

Play a larger role in the government-wide effort to understand UAP, using an evidence-based approach rooted in science

Utilise its existing Earth observation tools, such as satellites, to investigate whether there are environmental conditions associated with UAP

Enhance collaborations with the private US space industry, which offer powerful constellations of satellites, to look out for UAPs so we are less reliant on grainy camera footage for potential sightings

Consider how AI and machine learning can be leveraged to help detect UAP and gather more data around sightings

Improve public engagement, perhaps by looking into the development of a smartphone app to gather imaging data from citizen observers

Better leverage the existing reporting system for commercial pilots who believe they have witnessed a UAP

Tell me why?

For crying out loud, don't lie!!!

Big Toe · « **Reply #715 on:** June 05, 2024, 12:28 »

Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46

- You have ZERO proof that physical matter can achieve consciousness and perceive qualia. But you probably believe in it like in the gospel, because the mainstream was told to believe in it.

You do not believe that humans consist of physical matter? Or do you deny that humans achieved consciousness?

Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46

- There is no proof of dark matter. And yet the mainstream accepts it. It was invented to prop up the prevalent model of the universe. But a working model, even if it fits the data, is not the same as proof. To understand what "proof" is, check how Pythagorean theorem is proven (spoiler: not by testing dozens of triangles).

So, dark matter was hypothesized in order to explain observations (data) within the assumed laws of physics. It could be right, I am not saying anything. Without dark matter/dark energy we have a gigantic anomaly within the current paradigm.

Dark matter is a rather broad concept. No one really knows what it is or whether it really exists or if there is another explanation for the observed data after all. There are a number of hyptheses what dark matter and/or dark energy consist of, but so far, none is really convincing.

Most physicists probably believe in the existence of dark matter and/or dark energy, because they currently seem like the most simple explanation for the available data. However, I think most would also acknowledge the possibility that this is wrong, just like the luminiferous aether as a medium for the propagation of light turned out to be wrong.

LDV81 · « **Reply #716 on:** June 05, 2024, 12:44 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 05, 2024, 12:28

Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46
- You have ZERO proof that physical matter can achieve consciousness and perceive qualia. But you probably believe in it like in the gospel, because the mainstream was told to believe in it.

You do not believe that humans consist of physical matter? Or do you deny that humans achieved consciousness?

Where did I write something like what you imply?

1. Human bodies consist of physical matter.
2. There is absolutely ZERO proof that physical matter can achieve consciousness and perceive qualia on its own.

Many people have experienced NDEs or out-of-body experiences. I have also had an OOBE, so I know they are true.

LDV81 · « **Reply #717 on:** June 05, 2024, 12:56 »

Quote from: Big Toe on January 14, 2024, 06:13

Since a warp drive is unfortunatly impossible, aliens would have to travel at sublight speed, so it would take them more than 26,000 years to cover the distance.

Now, this is the Himalayas of arrogance or ignorance. Random dude on a microstock forum declaring what is possible and what not in the Universe and the wider reality.

People dealing with the subject matter professionally think otherwise:

https://www.uni-goettingen.de/en/3240.html?id=6192

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240506270015/en/New-Study-Achieves-Breakthrough-in-Warp-Drive-Design

cascoly · « **Reply #718 on:** June 05, 2024, 13:56 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 10:36

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 05, 2024, 09:44

Something that's unexplained is not proof of something else being real. It's just a mystery.

Yes, it is a mystery until we find out what is behind that. The problem is that you assume all mysteries must be man-made or natural phenomena and all people who put forward other hypotheses must be frauds or "believers".

I say I don't know and I would like to find out. If there are objects displaying characteristics well beyond current human mainstream understanding of physics, then it is possible that non-human intelligent beings are involved.

Stop ridiculing and discrediting serious people who advocate for disclosure of existing data.

stop misrepresenting or pretending to know what others are thinking -- no one is assuming unexplained must be man-made and this has been stated over & over yet you continue making things up and attacking people rather than providing any facts

cascoly · « **Reply #719 on:** June 05, 2024, 14:01 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 10:38

Quote from: Uncle Pete on June 05, 2024, 10:09

You reject this:

Play a larger role in the government-wide effort to understand UAP, using an evidence-based approach rooted in science

Utilise its existing Earth observation tools, such as satellites, to investigate whether there are environmental conditions associated with UAP

Enhance collaborations with the private US space industry, which offer powerful constellations of satellites, to look out for UAPs so we are less reliant on grainy camera footage for potential sightings

Consider how AI and machine learning can be leveraged to help detect UAP and gather more data around sightings

Improve public engagement, perhaps by looking into the development of a smartphone app to gather imaging data from citizen observers

Better leverage the existing reporting system for commercial pilots who believe they have witnessed a UAP

Tell me why?

For crying out loud, don't lie!!!

yes, the last resort of those with nothing to say - yell loudest. (original text reduced to save our virtual eardrums)

“If the facts are against you, argue the law.
If the law is against you, argue the facts.
If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”
― attributed to Carl Sandburg

LDV81 · « **Reply #720 on:** June 05, 2024, 14:14 »

Quote from: cascoly on June 05, 2024, 13:56

stop misrepresenting or pretending to know what others are thinking -- no one is assuming unexplained must be man-made and this has been stated over & over yet you continue making things up and attacking people rather than providing any facts

For crying out, Uncle Pete completely misrepresented what I have been saying, posting a whole list of lies. And yet you did not react to it at all!!!

I did provide facts and showed your manipulation. And then you were speechless. I talk about facts and hypotheses that try to explain the phenomenon.

If you don't assume that the phenomenon has a man-made explanation [or is natural phenomena], then what is exactly the point of your drivel? Because that is exactly my position. If you read my posts, I have expressed any certainty that the explanation must be some specific hypothesis.

Big Toe · « **Reply #721 on:** June 05, 2024, 16:09 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 12:44

Quote from: Big Toe on June 05, 2024, 12:28
Quote from: LDV81 on May 30, 2024, 16:46
- You have ZERO proof that physical matter can achieve consciousness and perceive qualia. But you probably believe in it like in the gospel, because the mainstream was told to believe in it.

You do not believe that humans consist of physical matter? Or do you deny that humans achieved consciousness?

Where did I write something like what you imply?

1. Human bodies consist of physical matter.

There is zero evidence that humans anything else then their bodies.

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 12:44

2. There is absolutely ZERO proof that physical matter can achieve consciousness and perceive qualia on its own.

Many people have experienced NDEs or out-of-body experiences. I have also had an OOBE, so I know they are true.

Out-of-body experiences are but an illusion and can be artificially induced by chemicals.

And please explains this: If people are able to perceice light and sound during an out-of-body experience, then why do people become blind when their eyes are injured? Why do we have eyes in the first place, if people are able to see without them during out-of-body experiences?

Big Toe · « **Reply #722 on:** June 05, 2024, 16:49 »

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 12:56

Quote from: Big Toe on January 14, 2024, 06:13

Since a warp drive is unfortunatly impossible, aliens would have to travel at sublight speed, so it would take them more than 26,000 years to cover the distance.

Now, this is the Himalayas of arrogance or ignorance. Random dude on a microstock forum declaring what is possible and what not in the Universe and the wider reality.

Random dude has some knowledge of physics.

Quote from: LDV81 on June 05, 2024, 12:56

People dealing with the subject matter professionally think otherwise:

https://www.uni-goettingen.de/en/3240.html?id=6192

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20240506270015/en/New-Study-Achieves-Breakthrough-in-Warp-Drive-Design

First ot the second link: If you read this carefully, you will notice that ths is about a hypothetical drive that shares some common principles with the warp drive from Star Trek, but works only at velocities below the speed of light:

"The team introduced the concept of a "constant-velocity subluminal warp drive" aligned with the principles of relativity. "

Therefor, I would say that warp drive is a misnomer here, because usually warp speed is considered to be a speed greater than the speed of light. In any case, it does not solve the problem to cover large distances during space travel in a reasonable time.

To the second link: This guy claims to have found some loophole in Einsteins field equations that enable travel at speed greater than the speed of light. As this goes totally against the whole point of relativity, you will forgive me, if I remain sceptical.

I think, one of the reasons that physists deal with this kind of speculations is that theoretical physics seems to have reached a bit of a dead end.

String theory is still unproven, we are no closer to solving the mystery of dark matter than we were 20 years ago and we have still no idea how to develop a quantum theory of gravitation.

Therefore, quite a few theoretical phyisists are desperate enough to develop more fancyful theories and make outlandish claims. Even if it comes to nothing in the end, it is still a possibility to get yourself a name.

LDV81 · « **Reply #723 on:** June 05, 2024, 16:52 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 05, 2024, 16:09

There is zero evidence that humans anything else then their bodies.

Try The Gateway Experience yourself. It was studied by the CIA in the 1980s, the declassified report is online, the audio files can be obtained online. Reach, at least, the state of Focus 12 there. And you will laugh at your own words afterwards... I can tell you that... After Focus 15 things may get weird for you though, but you may acquire some very useful skills in the process...

Quote from: Big Toe on June 05, 2024, 16:09

Out-of-body experiences are but an illusion and can be artificially induced by chemicals.

1. Many everyday experiences are also illusions, as your senses show you a distorted/very incomplete version of reality. You make up the rest.
2. There are multiple kinds of OOBEs.
3. Many states can be induced by chemicals, for example antidepressants can cure a depression. Does it mean that the lack of the depression is an illusion? You can have OOBEs through multiple ways: spontaneous, meditations, chemicals... It doesn't matter.

Quote from: Big Toe on June 05, 2024, 16:09

And please explains this: If people are able to perceice light and sound during an out-of-body experience, then why do people become blind when their eyes are injured? Why do we have eyes in the first place, if people are able to see without them during out-of-body experiences?

You need eyes to see in the physical-matter reality.

Read the books of Robert Monroe. He coined the term "OOBEs", because at first it seemed to him like that, but later he regretted the term when he had more experience. Later he preferred the term "phasing".

Your consciousness also exits the physical reality during dreams (which are also an altered state of consciousness like OOBEs / NDEs). Your eyes are closed during dreams, and yet you see things.

LDV81 · « **Reply #724 on:** June 05, 2024, 17:01 »

Quote from: Big Toe on June 05, 2024, 16:49

To the second link: This guy claims to have found some loophole in Einsteins field equations that enable travel at speed greater than the speed of light. As this goes totally against the whole point of relativity, you will forgive me, if I remain sceptical.

Being skeptical is fine, but claiming it is not possible is arrogant. Yes, one of the concepts is technically subliminal, but it does create a warp bubble. The point is loopholes may be possible. Compared to the whole history of mankind, Einstein's theory is very recent. There may civilizations millions or billions of years older, and they could have such understanding of the reality that we cannot even imagine.

And besides that, they could have built van Neumann's probes and in this ways reach very distant places in the universe even at relatively slow speeds.

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