MicrostockGroup
Microstock Photography Forum - General => Off Topic => Topic started by: Lowls on May 12, 2023, 09:15
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Well I Thought it would be fun to start a thread where we can tell our stories and or show our pictures. Now I've been a fanatic since I was a child. I would watch various programmes and read books on the subject. But until I think last year I had never seen one. Maybe I still haven't who knows. But I do have some god awful footage of a glowing sphere that slowly moved across out sky and of course despite owning a canon 100 to 400 L lens which was even on a charged slr 12 steps away in doors ... I grabbed my phone from my pocket. It passed over 3 successive nights and once the previous year. However I am always looking up and have never seen anything before. Not even a hint kf something.
The glowing sphere passed over us with no noise each time. If you took a regular tennis ball and placed it on a pole two stories up (a house) that's how big it was in the sky. If I had to guess I'd say about 2000 feet up but only the first sighting could be checked for altitude because its glow reflected off the clouds which were scudding across the sky due to wind up there. It flew against that. The second time same thing a few months later. And the third the next night. Similar flight path. Towards the sea some miles away. All no noise. Didn't zip off. The light was a warm blue. Bright ... moon bright ... and that's it. Just slowly sailed across the sky and that was that.
Now I know what some of you are thinking. It was the moon. So I'll get that out of the way ... the moon was half full at the time and located behind us near the horizon. Maybe 2 hours left till it set. Another problem with the moon theory is that the house is in the way. Had to walk round the house to rule out the moon. There is no way you could confuse the two but I needed to know where it was for my benefit. So I'd never doubt myself. Plus I filmed it. Poorly on a phone. Who's autofocus kept making it look like it's pulsing. It wasn't.
Not a lantern. Too bright, wrong colour, against the wind. Not a planet I had stars adjacent as reference and they too are on film. It is zoomed in later which really enhanced the image. NOT. But you can still see it and passing stars in the sky.
I had one more experience when I was a kid. I have no memory of anything happening but we had an elderly neighbour who smoked. She went out for a smoke very late at night before bed. Walked down her 5 meter path to her gate and finished her cigarette. As she turned back she nearly gave birth to a kidney out of fear. Above our roof was a triangular craft. Bigger than the house just meters off the roof. Black. I don't know any more because next day she came round and asked to speak to a grown up. She was very concerned. She was shown in and asked if I could be sent off to play. After she left I asked what it was about and my family rolled their eyes and showed me a drawing of the craft she had just drawn. Just a triangle. Black. Above a roof for scale. She had drawn lights at the corners. That's all. She said she was frozen to the spot and couldn't move. Terrified. I was under young and this was back in the 80s. But when I asked her about it she said that I shouldt talk about such things and wouldn't say any more.
There we are two fun stories and thought this was quite timely as we have just had congresses second briefing from the team they set up to access all the military data on UAP reported internally by Navy Pilots. Now they must report sightings by law. And after the Nimitz footage and case it couldn't be more important.
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From the first picture you posted of the Orb. I saw something very similar 10 or so months ago. I live in a quiet village in the UK with little light pollution so I often wonder outside in my back garden and stargaze. I've seen some really cool meteors etc. Anyways I was looking up one night and saw something moving at a constant speed across the sky. It was orb-shaped and very high up and it shone a triangular light in front of it. I thought it was a plane with a landing light on but after more research into it I dont think it was. As it went towards the horizon the triangular light faded quickly and the orb just kept traveling until it was too small to see. I checked all the rocket launches that night and could find any. It was really high up.
Lastly, my dad in the 1960's when he was a young teenager saw a UFO or UAP. He never talks about it as I think he's embarrassed to tell people. He was walking home one early wintery evening and above the trees in a small wood he took for a shortcut was a circular UFO with many lights pulsating in movement. He said a few people saw it that night and it made the news in our local paper, but like I said he never talks about it although as a kid I always wanted to know much more. He said it was just hovering above the trees for a few minutes and then shot off somewhere really quickly.
I do find all this interesting, especially with all the USA Air Force pilots saying they see them very regularly.
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From the first picture you posted of the Orb. I saw something very similar 10 or so months ago. I live in a quiet village in the UK with little light pollution so I often wonder outside in my back garden and stargaze. I've seen some really cool meteors etc. Anyways I was looking up one night and saw something moving at a constant speed across the sky. It was orb-shaped and very high up and it shone a triangular light in front of it. I thought it was a plane with a landing light on but after more research into it I dont think it was. As it went towards the horizon the triangular light faded quickly and the orb just kept traveling until it was too small to see. I checked all the rocket launches that night and could find any. It was really high up.
Lastly, my dad in the 1960's when he was a young teenager saw a UFO or UAP. He never talks about it as I think he's embarrassed to tell people. He was walking home one early wintery evening and above the trees in a small wood he took for a shortcut was a circular UFO with many lights pulsating in movement. He said a few people saw it that night and it made the news in our local paper, but like I said he never talks about it although as a kid I always wanted to know much more. He said it was just hovering above the trees for a few minutes and then shot off somewhere really quickly.
I do find all this interesting, especially with all the USA Air Force pilots saying they see them very regularly.
Cool thank you for sharing that. It reminded me of my father's experience which I've rummaged and dug out. The move is now towards crowd researching these craft. Hence this post. Because governments are often hampered by various issues primarily ways and means criteria they do not release anything usually. David Fravour is an ex rop gun pilot and instructor who engaged the now famous tic tac craft as did his crew mates over a 3 week period. Worth listening to him on the joe rogan podcast. Other names to follow are George Knapp, Jeremy Corbel and James Fox.
So back to dad. He likes to take snaps and as a helicopter passed over him he managed to snap it with I think his old film camera. This photo is a crop of what he saw after. Printed on photo paper. And I've photographed that. Bare in mind please that the rotors are caught perfectly so shutter speed was excellent and therefore rules out a bug or bird. I forgot I even had this knocking around.
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As an aside, UAP has itself been renamed.
It now stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. I'm not sure why. I liked 'aerial' better (but they didn't ask me ;)).
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https://streamable.com/4nkwsz (https://streamable.com/4nkwsz)
This is a section of one of the videos. I see the light moving and use the phone camera. It is gliding slowly. Any quick movement is me. It also gets bigger because I zoom in. I'm not sure how much I zoomed in by. It's max is 10x so it has been magnified by 10 at most. But the lens is 26mm so pushes it away. The size I saw was between these two sizes.
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https://streamable.com/4nkwsz (https://streamable.com/4nkwsz)
This is a section of one of the videos. I see the light moving and use the phone camera. It is gliding slowly. Any quick movement is me. It also gets bigger because I zoom in. I'm not sure how much I zoomed in by. It's max is 10x so it has been magnified by 10 at most. But the lens is 26mm so pushes it away. The size I saw was between these two sizes.
Probably a Vorlon vessel. The First Ones are looking out for us.
Or else it could be a helicopter partially obscured by veil clouds. But how likely is that?
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https://streamable.com/4nkwsz (https://streamable.com/4nkwsz)
This is a section of one of the videos. I see the light moving and use the phone camera. It is gliding slowly. Any quick movement is me. It also gets bigger because I zoom in. I'm not sure how much I zoomed in by. It's max is 10x so it has been magnified by 10 at most. But the lens is 26mm so pushes it away. The size I saw was between these two sizes.
Probably a Vorlon vessel. The First Ones are looking out for us.
Or else it could be a helicopter partially obscured by veil clouds. But how likely is that?
That's a Babylon 5 reference 😳 I'm afraid mentioning Babylon 5 is now regarded as a hate crime. Like mentioning George Lazenby. He exists but we never speak of him.
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That's a Babylon 5 reference 😳 I'm afraid mentioning Babylon 5 is now regarded as a hate crime. Like mentioning George Lazenby. He exists but we never speak of him.
Of course I would have preferred a Star Trek reference. However, it is fairly well established that the most likely candidates there, the Vulcans, will ignore the Earth until we will develop the Warp drive.
Now, if you are looking for an explanation of the Roswell incident, it is clear by now that this was caused by three Ferengi inadvertently traveling back in time (and one shape shifter, but I think he was not registered at the time).
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The Roswell incident is probably the genesis of government cover ups. This incident helped them write the playbook.
There are endless investigations into the incident but by far the most indepth catgeoric investigation was by Stanton Friedman now deceased. He interviewed many of the people involved and captured it on video tape. He was also a specialist in archival document retrieval and spent years searching through government archives * many documents proving that it happened.
In extremely brief form and from memory (some names ill miss spell)for those unaware ...
1947 New Mexico a rancher called Mike Brasil whilst moving some cattle discovers a vast area of his farmland covered in small metallic debris. He also discovers casualties.
He contacts the local airbase to report that one of their aircraft has crashed on his land and debris is over a large area ... several hundred meters. The local airbase commander Jesse Marcel knowing no aircraft were out there visits the farm. The airbase was the home of the Enola Gay of Hirroshima infamy.
After visiting He returns to report that a UFO flying saucer has crashed and alerts the local paper and the story goes national. He retrieves some of the material which he shows to various people including his son who gives some to. The material crumples like foil but when placed in the table returns to its original shape with no creases. A material that exists today and called by its nick name memory metal. This is used in hundreds of applications including medical applications like stents to open clogged or collapsed arteries in humans. One particular object was a small metal I-beam which has symbols on it and about the size of a school ruler.
In very short order hundreds of troops are deployed to the area to fingertip collect all materials. Marcel is forced to recant his story and pose at a press conference by his superiors holding a weather balloon and some wooden formers and declare he made an error to the worlds press.
How could such an officer make such a pathetic error and embaraess the military? Well as you can imagine he would probably be demoted and you would never hear of him again. In fact he was punished ... by being given a promotion and a more high profile job.
Mike Brasil was forced to be silent about anything he saw or found. And his money problems vanished.
The local radio station were threatened.
Civilians involved were threatened.
After Stantons deep investigation n the 80s and onwards and forensically picking through documentation and gathering interviews the USAF began an investigation of their own and admitted they had lied and it wasn't a weather balloon. That they had classified the crash because it was actually something else that crashed ... a collection of balloons that carried radiation monitoring equipment and a mannequin as part of a testing programme.
This was a fact. This programmed did in fact exist. Stanton began researching this programmed. He spoke to various witnesses about these balloon assemblies and people came foreward to tell him about finding these mannequins here and there out in the desert. So the story reignited by Stanton after laying dormant for about 30 years could have died again. But he was forensic. He tracked down the family company that got the contract to make the life size soldier mannequins. They gave him the governmental order for the manufacture of them. And that order was created in1953. The USAF hadn't considered that the company would still hold that record.
That's how it stands to this day. A secret weather balloon carrying monitoring equipment and the bodies that witnesses described at 4 foot tall with one alive the rest badly burned explained away as a life size human soldier mannequin which wasn't produced until 6 years after the incident took place.
That's it in a snap shot. But the actual full story is so convoluted and detailed you'll have to keep dipping in and out for months. However it's astonishing. And could never have been a weather balloon or even a collection of them because although they did release many weather balloons everyone around roswell knew what they were because they would always be found because that many were realised daily and would land everywhere.
Jesse Marcel press photo
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8a/Marcel-roswell-debris_0.jpg/440px-Marcel-roswell-debris_0.jpg)
Stanton Friedman - Physicist employed by various governmental contract bodies for his expertise in propulsion in space. He wrote the book - literally - on the Roswell incident
https://youtu.be/Mr8t3sGxAlw
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon, and for all the proof and evidence and answers, confirming it's nothing? The story grows and grows. People like a good mystery, and that one brings in tourists.
Just like Nessy, Champ, sasquach, the Bermuda Triangle or so many more. Well OK Area 51 is really something, but mythical beasts and UFOs that are satellites, landing lights, Venus, "strange disappearances" and most of the time very well explained, are the basis for a whole mythology.
Good for public speakers, books, blogs and radio talk hosts.
People who outgrew, ghosts, faeries, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus, still have more modern adventures, searching for outer space visitors.
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon, and for all the proof and evidence and answers, confirming it's nothing? The story grows and grows. People like a good mystery, and that one brings in tourists.
Just like Nessy, Champ, sasquach, the Bermuda Triangle or so many more. Well OK Area 51 is really something, but mythical beasts and UFOs that are satellites, landing lights, Venus, "strange disappearances" and most of the time very well explained, are the basis for a whole mythology.
Good for public speakers, books, blogs and radio talk hosts.
People who outgrew, ghosts, faeries, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus, still have more modern adventures, searching for outer space visitors.
That mistaken view is more out-of-date than religious belief systems Peter. And you know it.
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... and some years later more photographs at this press conference were released. Here is Brigadier General Ramey and Colonel Dubose laughing for the press at the miss identification of the weather balloon wreckage.
(https://library.uta.edu/roswell/sites/library.uta.edu.roswell/files/ramey-dubose-debris.jpg)
Courtesy, Fort Worth Star-Telegram Photograph Collection, Special Collections, The University of Texas at Arlington Library, Arlington, Texas
The problem with this photo is that it was taken with a very expensive camera. And years later as technology improved someone noticed the note in his hand. A note which wasn't meant to be seen. After obtaining the negatives they were redeveloped using modern methods. The words crash victims can be seen most agree but the rest is a mystery largely. A private individual is offering $10,000 to anyone or lab that can definitively provide a good resolution image of the Ramey memo.
Maybe A.I. holds the key.
(https://library.uta.edu/roswell/sites/library.uta.edu.roswell/files/Enlargement%20of%20telegram2.jpg)
Courtesy, Fort Worth Star-Telegram Photograph Collection, Special Collections, The University of Texas at Arlington Library, Arlington, Texas
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon
1951 man-made. Looks like parts could have been of the same 'tin foil' material.
(https://api.army.mil/e2/c/images/2019/09/24/565763/size0-full.jpg)
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon
1951 man-made. Looks like parts could have been of the same 'tin foil' material.
(https://api.army.mil/e2/c/images/2019/09/24/565763/size0-full.jpg)
Unfortunately the above photos were declared false by the USAF themselves after an exhaustive investigation in 1994, the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force concluded an exhaustive search for records in response to a General Accounting Office (GAO) inquiry of an event at Roswell wasn't a weather balloon after all.
Roswell Incident 1947.
Conclusion of the investigation was that the 'crash' was a culmination of two events. And that itbwas these two events that confused people and military staff alike.
These two events needed to provide evidence that the bodies people had seen were not alien in nature and it also needed to provide a valid excuse for the amount of debris.
It offered Project MOGUL as the cause.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cd/Mogul_balloon_train_USAF_1995.png)
... however MOGUL was largely an unclassified project. Although larger wasn't large enough to cover a large area of over 100 meters of debris and they didn't lose any according to the records.
They also offered Project High Dive as a reason for suspected bodies found at the crash site. A high altitude parachute testing system that carried lifelike dummies. The 4 foot aliens found at the crashsite were apparently not 4 foot aliens but were these
(https://www.telegraph.co.uk/content/dam/news/2022/07/07/TELEMMGLPICT000301074053_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqmg-OLVDCX5qxUumtPd58DKQGU9r7rbsRt25u4_3GKGI.jpeg)
6 foot mannequins 😳 that achieved time travel. Project Highjump began in tye mid 50s.
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon
1951 man-made. Looks like parts could have been of the same 'tin foil' material.
The "believers" will never listen to reason and come up with the same stale "prove it's not real" which is a contradiction in logic. Prove I don't own a giant invisible frog, that lives in my yard. Impossible.
Believers don't want answers, they want the mystery and intrigue. http://www.roswellproof.com/rawin_construction.html (http://www.roswellproof.com/rawin_construction.html)
RAWINs are basically a balsa-wood kite stick framework forming corners covered with a radar reflecting substance like aluminum foil.
The Mogul Project occasionally used the ML-307 radar target for tracking of their balloon trains. This is also the model of RAWIN displayed in Gen. Ramey's office on July 8, 1947.
(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4sgiiCR1W4U/UkW_6IPus2I/AAAAAAAAH8g/6zqnHeGx1qE/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/roswellmemo.jpg)
But you'll see that anything that disagrees with the conspiracy, crash, aliens, Etc. will be a planned cover-up and discounted. While any wisp of a blurry note, will become proof, without a doubt. If the only evidence that is acceptable, is that which supports a theory, and all the other evidence is eliminated and discounted, of course, it's going to make a convincing story.
Roswell wasn't even an event or interesting, to anyone, not even UFO people, until someone brought it back to life years later.
In 1978, nuclear physicist, author and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman interviewed Marcel, who said that the discovery made 31 years earlier was not from this world, and that the government had ordered him to keep quiet. Friedman revisited the incident and sought other witnesses, and his work inspired Charles Berlitz and William Moore to write "The Roswell Incident" published in 1980. Their conclusion was simple: There had been a huge cover-up.
1980! Because the original incident was an error and it was resolved and the truth was known. But lets look at Friedman, Berlitz and Moore for a bit.
From Random House: Charles Berlitz, the author of The Bermuda Triangle, was a renowned linguist, lecturer, and underwater explorer. In addition to The Bermuda Triangle, which has sold over 10 million copies in twenty-three languages, Berlitz wrote other best sellers on archaeology, languages, Atlantis, and underwater exploration. Wow, there's some background, the fake Bermuda Triangle mystery that's clearly solved (The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved by Larry Kusche, which people who deny the truth won't pick up and read, because it goes against the mythology) Atlantis? Wait, let me point out, the author of the Roswell Incident and his writings?
The Mystery of Atlantis, 1969
Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds, 1972
The Bermuda Triangle, 1974, ISBN 0-285-63326-0
Without a Trace, 1977
The Philadelphia Experiment – Project Invisibility, 1979
The Roswell Incident, 1980
Doomsday 1999 A.D., 1981, ISBN 0-586-05543-6
Atlantis – The Eighth Continent: G. P. Putnams Sons, New York, 1984
Atlantis: The Lost Continent Revealed, Macmillan, London, 1984
The Lost Ship of Noah: In Search of the Ark at Ararat, 1987
The Dragon's Triangle, 1989
World of the Incredible but True: Ballantine Books, New York, 1991
World of Strange Phenomena: Little Brown & Company, New York, 1995
Some list, and for those who say, Friedman and Berlitz were exposing something, I'll say, they are only in it for the money. William Moore co-author.
In 1970, Friedman left full-time employment as a physicist to pursue the scientific investigation of unidentified flying objects (UFOs). Since then, he gave lectures at more than 600 colleges and to more than 100 professional groups in 50 states, 10 provinces, and 19 countries outside the US. Additionally, he worked as a consultant on the topic. He published more than 80 UFO-related papers and appeared on many radio and television programs. He also provided written testimony to Congressional hearings and appeared twice at the United Nations. (wikipedia)
So there you have it. Friedman a UFO advocate, who collected evidence, then supported by Moore and Berlitz, created the Book and all the current mythology about the Roswell Incident. Which is also found as the crash at Corona by some sources. And as time went by, it changed from one crash to two and then three.
This is what's called a cafeteria story, where people pick and choose what they want to believe and others along the way, add to the menu with new "facts". (aka Factoids) It's a great example of creative combining of a basic story into a larger and larger myth that takes on epic proportions.
Moreover, the book took a bold step forward and related the extraordinary story, narrated by a man who had died in 1969, about a second crash some 150 miles from the Corona debris, on the plains of Saint Augustin, which was littered with tiny humanoid bodies—a secondhand story in which, back then, no one, including, Friedman says, Friedman himself, placed any credence.
While it's impossible to prove this didn't happen, the burden of proof falls on the people making the claims to prove something DID happen. Their evidence is based on conjecture and conspiracy and what's missing will be claimed to have been covered up. Here we have a government that can't hid much of anything, but a UFO crash, they have kept secret since 1947? ::)
The Incident at Roswell: "the world's most famous, most exhaustively investigated, and most thoroughly debunked UFO claim" Psychology Today has a nice post about, well psychology, but also a timeline for Roswell. A nice clear and accurate timeline. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-paranormal/201205/roswell-revisited (https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-paranormal/201205/roswell-revisited)
Mythology - thank you. Yes I have read about this over the years.
Now what about, the Bermuda Triangle Myth? Atlantis? The Philadelphia Experiment? And finding Noah's Ark? Honestly we're more likely to find Noah's Ark. Which if you want to consider how unlikely that story may be? The capacity of the ship/ark would be roughly 1.5 million cubic feet. But you know what, no one can prove it isn't a true story? And there are new claims over and over, that someone found Noah's Ark on some mountain top.
Nope, you can call me what you want, but I am clearly for science and evidence and a skeptic when it comes to extraordinary claims. Show me the evidence, I'm ready to change my mind and admit I was wrong and had erred.
Just a note, I believe that Stanton Friedman clearly and honestly believed what he spoke about and wrote about and investigated. Not so for Berlitz and Moore.
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Ok.
Let's assume that aliens exist and they are circling the earth. But what's the use of them? How can they help in the war with the russians and russia? I don't see any help from them. Accordingly, why fill your head with information that does not help in any way in the war.
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Ok.
Let's assume that aliens exist and they are circling the earth. But what's the use of them? How can they help in the war with the russians and russia? I don't see any help from them. Accordingly, why fill your head with information that does not help in any way in the war.
That's an interesting way of looking at it ;D
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for anyone interested in exploring the history of Roswell & other conspiracies, check out
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2017/12/the-roswell-incident-at-70-facts-not-myths/
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2021/08/ufos-beliefs-conspiracies-and-aliens/
https://skepticalinquirer.org/newsletter/roswell-ufo-strange-metal-mystery/
The ‘Roswell Slides’ Fiasco:
UFOlogy’s Biggest Black Eye
https://skepticalinquirer.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2015/09/p30.pdf
and for anyone still believing this nonsense, I have some jackalope mummies for sale...
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Peter has clearly found his meds 😳 ... pssst Lower the dose.
Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. The gas aerated the water and reduced its density. The only reason things float is that the specific gravity of water allows for things to float ad long as they displace more water than the object weighs. Aerated water changes the maths and boats sink through the water very very rapidly. It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
The diatribe about Stanton Friedman is laughable and doesn't warrant a response frankly. Can't speak for the rest.
The crash at corona is a different crashed object recovery which has been exhaustively investigated by many but the one I'm familiar with is Scott Ramsay I think his name is.
... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. You are the one hurling claims lol. Crack on Peter please prove your claim. You can't though can you because skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. Pay them good money to work against you lol.
As for Roswell there is so much evidence, witness testimony and documents from people who were actually there at all levels of credibility it would take a lifetime to explore it all id imagine. You can thank Stanton Friedman for that because he tracked them all down and interviewed them on tape. Many of those interviews are available on utube. Of course all that research had to be done for free according to Peter. Because if you take that research and put the salient points in a book jacket and sell it, it automatically makes you a fraud. Oops. and the lectures these fraudsters attend are also scambait.
Peter is giving away his stock photos for free everyone btw. Just dm him that's right isn't it Peter lol.
It is certainly an interesting event. Dont take it from me though take it from someone who fought for their country for small pay. An actual hero who recieved the bronze star. Who supported the atom bomb tests at bikini atol. Put in charge as the intelligence officer at Roswell Air base and became group inteligence officef. A base who's purpose was to be the tip of the spear for nuclear monitoring against Russian radiological weapons testing amongst other things. Who went on to be promoted to Lt Col. Not bad for a fraud.
Or if you don't accept Jesse Snr how about Jesse Jnr or rather Dr Marcel or Flight Surgeon Marcel ... alleged quack and fraudster because he also attended lectures and also appeared on TV over the years.
Shame you ranted off Peter. Why is anyone's guess but that's you isn't it. What rank did you get to Pete ... I'm curious...
Jesse Marcel Snr ladies and gents ...
05.30 onwards. Interview with Marcel
https://youtu.be/g4QjZlTpGBw
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Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. The gas aerated the water and reduced its density. The only reason things float is that the specific gravity of water allows for things to float ad long as they displace more water than the object weighs. Aerated water changes the maths and boats sink through the water very very rapidly. It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
I saw a scientific documentary about the Bermuda Triangle a year or so ago. With new technology, they were able to scan to the bottom of the ocean in that area. Its apparently extremely deep and narrow - with very deep cliffs on either side - that can cause rogue waves and severe weather turbulence. Boats, ships and planes can get sucked down, similar to a reverse Tornado effect. That's it - nothing more. No aliens, no underwater alien bases, no magic tunnel through to other planets/parts of the universe, etc.
People shouldn't watch too much Ancient Aliens, which is meant for entertainment purposes only. ;)
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon
1951 man-made. Looks like parts could have been of the same 'tin foil' material.
([url]https://api.army.mil/e2/c/images/2019/09/24/565763/size0-full.jpg[/url])
Unfortunately the above photos were declared false
And as for the 'fake photo', I spoke to my husband whose stepfather is a military history buff (stepdad was born in England during the Battle of Britain, which kind of explains his fascination for the subject), and he said there were lots of those kind of balloons used during WWII and especially on D-Day - called barrage balloons.
There are lots of (verified) photos of them.
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/27/17/b3/2717b352e8e5931537c5e0a2a88a4ad5.jpg)
(http://img.auctiva.com/imgdata/0/1/1/4/2/7/webimg/933792365_tp.jpg)
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/18/bf/9a18bff2bd21abd3b7377c7c3fcb1e95.jpg)
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Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. The gas aerated the water and reduced its density. The only reason things float is that the specific gravity of water allows for things to float ad long as they displace more water than the object weighs. Aerated water changes the maths and boats sink through the water very very rapidly. It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
People shouldn't watch too much Ancient Aliens, which is meant for entertainment purposes only. ;)
No Annie they should watch it and then look for more information regarding the content. Inevitably when producing any form of mini documentary regarding any subject the makers are given a budget and a time constraint. Much of what they learn is cut out. And because the UFO world is relatively small compared to other subjects like wildlife documentaries for instance, it's slim pickings on experts. They will aim for those who's credibility is assured and fill the rest in with attempted ballance of speakers dependant on the content. This isn't scientific it is as you say entertainment ... but it does contain facts all be it with missing context.
In the UFO world you had Stanton Friedman as pro UFO and often against they turned as they often do to someone who might provide legitimate credible opposition. Often this would be Seth Shostak. He was a tragic example. A highly regarded astronomer who's main defence was that if there was anything up there he would see it because he was always looking and knew what all the stuff up there was. He is a significant skeptic and debunker. But Seth has another rather important job. He is the head astronomer for the SETI institute. Search for Extra Terretrial Intelligence ... using radio telescopes they attempt to find radio signals generated by other races. A privately funded organisation that garners hundreds of millions in funding. Seth refuses to believe any other race have visited the earth. He is always wheeled out as opposing argument. But he admits he doesn't look at the evidence. Not exactly credible then.
Regarding your second post you've misunderstood. I quoted you regarding the tin foil (your photo which is real is part of what you said but irrelevant to my reply) comment and explained how my photos of Marcel with weather balloon foil was fake. It is a weather balloon in my photo and radar reflector foil, but what was fake was that it wasn't a weather balloon that was found. The governmnent admitted that this photo was staged.
Your photos and origional photo are of course real. They were known as barrage balloons. A large balloon part filled with hydrogen gas and tethered by a steel cable. The steel cables would form a forest of dangerous air space and could also be used to form choke points. There were a lot of balloons used. It was so bad that German pilots would cross the channel and reach the East Anglian coast and dump their loads overboard in the shallow estuaries. Fishermen still bring things up in their nets today. They would not only drop their bombs there they would also throw their guns out too to reduce weight to save fuel sonthey could turn around and make it back.
But it was also not a barrage balloon they found at Roswell. Major Jesse Marcel was familiar with all the equipment used on and launched from the base because that was his job.
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Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. The gas aerated the water and reduced its density. The only reason things float is that the specific gravity of water allows for things to float ad long as they displace more water than the object weighs. Aerated water changes the maths and boats sink through the water very very rapidly. It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
I saw a scientific documentary about the Bermuda Triangle a year or so ago. With new technology, they were able to scan to the bottom of the ocean in that area. Its apparently extremely deep and narrow - with very deep cliffs on either side - that can cause rogue waves and severe weather turbulence. Boats, ships and planes can get sucked down, similar to a reverse Tornado effect. That's it - nothing more. No aliens, no underwater alien bases, no magic tunnel through to other planets/parts of the universe, etc.
People shouldn't watch too much Ancient Aliens, which is meant for entertainment purposes only. ;)
Marilyn did not commit suicide, as commonly claimed, but rather was murdered by government officials to silence her about highly classified things she knew about UFO crash retrievals. That's the kind of stories that the UFO nuts spread, when there's nothing to support them.
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Good that you decided to reply with information, not just personal attacks and the usual defensive positions. Oh wait, you didn't answer the questions or the contradictions. You just blew some more smoke into your fantasy and imaginary stories.
Attack the topics and the ideas, not the people. You seem to be unable to do that?
Peter has clearly found his meds 😳 ... pssst Lower the dose.
... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. You are the one hurling claims lol. Crack on Peter please prove your claim. You can't though can you because skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. Pay them good money to work against you lol.
Of course all that research had to be done for free according to Peter.
Peter is giving away his stock photos for free everyone btw. Just dm him that's right isn't it Peter lol.
Shame you ranted off Peter. Why is anyone's guess but that's you isn't it. What rank did you get to Pete ... I'm curious...
That's terribly rude and has nothing to do with UAPs. You throw stones and insults and then ask that your views be respected? It's a two way street.
I didn't rant I gave evidence of the truth and the facts. I know the work will make you cringe but Roswell is debunked and if you are going to hang your hat on a best case for UFOs, that's the worst case as it's been defeated back and forth. Do you ever read or look at anything that disagrees with your preconceived beliefs. Do you take the time to actually seek the truth.
Here's a slow pitch question since you say " The Bermuda triangle is a fact.".
Where is the Bermuda Triangle? Just a general location, the size of the area, maybe some boundaries. Are there any?
Marilyn did not commit suicide, as commonly claimed, but rather was murdered by government officials to silence her about highly classified things she knew about UFO crash retrievals. That's the kind of stories that the UFO nuts spread, when there's nothing to support them.
And that's why "they" assassinated Kennedy JFK and Bobby, for knowing too much. ::)
And I'll repeat for those who can read and comprehend. I think Stanton Friedman was honest and believed what he researched and spoke about. I may disagree with his conclusions, but that doesn't mean I'm attacking him as a person.
I challenge anyone who wants to know the truth, to read a well researched, documented, highly intelligent book about the Bermuda Triangle and learn how hoaxes and conspiracies work at the same time. https://www.amazon.com/Bermuda-Triangle-Mystery-Solved/dp/0879759712 (https://www.amazon.com/Bermuda-Triangle-Mystery-Solved/dp/0879759712)
"...in 1972, Larry Kusche, then a reference librarian, decided to collect all the information he could find on each incident. He made contact with the Coast Guard, the Air Force, Lloyd's of London, and many other agencies. He obtained microfilm copies of newspapers from cities where various incidents had been reported.This exhaustive research had an unexpected result - it solved the mystery. It also resulted in the publication of The Bermuda Triangle Mystery-Solved, which is now back in print.Larry Kusche's book is more than an investigation of a mystery; it is a fascinating case history of a "manufactured mystery" in the making. It shows how over the years the raw materials of official accident reports, newspaper accounts, articles in the mainstream press, and word of mouth have been assimilated into a "false mystery.""
Yes, exhaustive research, not some TV show or book that promotes fake mysteries, not some people on the Internet who knew someone who knew someone, a FOAF that has the latest answer. But I'll tell you the Kusche can be found used and on Amazon and it's rock bottom cheap for a used copy. There's no side agenda or other motivation for writing it, other than getting to the bottom of the story and finding the facts.
Anyone who wants to know the real truth, at least give this book a read. Then decide afterwards?
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Good that you decided to reply with information, not just personal attacks and the usual defensive positions. Oh wait, you didn't answer the questions or the contradictions. You just blew some more smoke into your fantasy and imaginary stories.
Attack the topics and the ideas, not the people. You seem to be unable to do that?
Peter has clearly found his meds 😳 ... pssst Lower the dose.
... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. You are the one hurling claims lol. Crack on Peter please prove your claim. You can't though can you because skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. Pay them good money to work against you lol.
Of course all that research had to be done for free according to Peter.
Peter is giving away his stock photos for free everyone btw. Just dm him that's right isn't it Peter lol.
Shame you ranted off Peter. Why is anyone's guess but that's you isn't it. What rank did you get to Pete ... I'm curious...
That's terribly rude and has nothing to do with UAPs. You throw stones and insults and then ask that your views be respected? It's a two way street.
I didn't rant I gave evidence of the truth and the facts. I know the work will make you cringe but Roswell is debunked and if you are going to hang your hat on a best case for UFOs, that's the worst case as it's been defeated back and forth. Do you ever read or look at anything that disagrees with your preconceived beliefs. Do you take the time to actually seek the truth.
Here's a slow pitch question since you say " The Bermuda triangle is a fact.".
Where is the Bermuda Triangle? Just a general location, the size of the area, maybe some boundaries. Are there any?
Marilyn did not commit suicide, as commonly claimed, but rather was murdered by government officials to silence her about highly classified things she knew about UFO crash retrievals. That's the kind of stories that the UFO nuts spread, when there's nothing to support them.
And that's why "they" assassinated Kennedy JFK and Bobby, for knowing too much. ::)
And I'll repeat for those who can read and comprehend. I think Stanton Friedman was honest and believed what he researched and spoke about. I may disagree with his conclusions, but that doesn't mean I'm attacking him as a person.
I challenge anyone who wants to know the truth, to read a well researched, documented, highly intelligent book about the Bermuda Triangle and learn how hoaxes and conspiracies work at the same time. https://www.amazon.com/Bermuda-Triangle-Mystery-Solved/dp/0879759712 (https://www.amazon.com/Bermuda-Triangle-Mystery-Solved/dp/0879759712)
"...in 1972, Larry Kusche, then a reference librarian, decided to collect all the information he could find on each incident. He made contact with the Coast Guard, the Air Force, Lloyd's of London, and many other agencies. He obtained microfilm copies of newspapers from cities where various incidents had been reported.This exhaustive research had an unexpected result - it solved the mystery. It also resulted in the publication of The Bermuda Triangle Mystery-Solved, which is now back in print.Larry Kusche's book is more than an investigation of a mystery; it is a fascinating case history of a "manufactured mystery" in the making. It shows how over the years the raw materials of official accident reports, newspaper accounts, articles in the mainstream press, and word of mouth have been assimilated into a "false mystery.""
Yes, exhaustive research, not some TV show or book that promotes fake mysteries, not some people on the Internet who knew someone who knew someone, a FOAF that has the latest answer. But I'll tell you the Kusche can be found used and on Amazon and it's rock bottom cheap for a used copy. There's no side agenda or other motivation for writing it, other than getting to the bottom of the story and finding the facts.
Anyone who wants to know the real truth, at least give this book a read. Then decide afterwards?
Peter English is my first language I cannot speak for yourself. Adding a question mark at the end of a sentence isn't the only requirement to form a question. You actually have to ask one. As you have edited your original post which you claim gives evidence, proof and facts and I'll inform you contains merely conjecture and cut and paste from Amazon, we can't say for sure how many legitimate question can be found in it because there is a mixture of actual questions and statements punctuated with question marks, but I did find only these.
"Now what about, the Bermuda Triangle Myth? Atlantis? The Philadelphia Experiment? And finding Noah's Ark?"
I can answer your most recent question and the first one here. The Bermuda Triangle is a fact because it has been defined as a fact in its naming. In the same way as its a fact that your username is Uncle Peter. In the same way I don't know if you are actually an uncle and nor do I know if your real name is Peter. But factually you are known as that here. And the Bermuda triangle also exists in the same way. The answer to the second part of that is .... I have no idea. Its not my hobby horse and I don't believe I mentioned it in my OP. I do know a lot of tonnage of ships have been lost in that general area and as I stated I subscribe to aerated water as a contributing factor. That's scientific fact Peter. I cannot claim to know that its the cause in that general area. But that is a known cause of ships sinking around the world. Cool video of someone doing it on utibe too but that isn't the source of my knowledge on the subject. I won't bore you.
Atlantis - again not my hobby horse and I barely have any inclination towards it. It may as well be carpet underlay. In fact I'd probably lean towards the underlay. Philidelphia experiment. That I do know about but if its true I suspect that it was some experimental pet project that came out of Hitlers stable and is probably linked to De Gloke or however its spelled. The bell that was part of one of Hitlers projects. But again I find it fascinating but not enough to devote time to.
Noahs Ark. God doesn't exist Peter. Other than in people's minds and a book written and rewritten by men.
I could point out that the first few paragraphs of your response directly contradict you but ... meh. I've always known you're a pedant and if you do not agree with something you do not stop ranting about it. You are bombastic. It's not a problem for me but I do worry about you personally.
If you do have any UFO experiences please do post them I do find those fascinating.
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People shouldn't watch too much Ancient Aliens, which is meant for entertainment purposes only. ;)
Yeah, ancient astronauts, unsolved mysteries, aliens built the pyramids (Africa and South America) known ancient sites that are twisted into something else, Stonehenge, Easter Island, Nazca and of course the undiscovered Atlantis. It is entertaining and I confess I spent way too much time for many years, reading all of that. I had to dig a bit to finally find a copy of Stonehenge Decided and false math theory that was very popular at one time, but when others when back to fact check, it was manipulated data. Too bad, that was a good one.
"As soon as Marcel brought the material to General Ramey's office, both Ramey and his chief of staff Colonel Thomas Dubose identified the material as pieces of a weather balloon kite. The FWAAF weather officer on duty explained to reporters that such rawin (misreported as 'ray wind') radar targets that were used at about 80 weather stations across the country. The balloons were attached to a six-pointed reflective device that looked like a silver star. After launch, the balloon expanded with increasing altitude before bursting around 60,000 feet with pieces then dispersing in their fall to the ground."
That's what really happened. These balloons were not made of polyethylene that had been coated with aluminum. Mylar, BoPET (biaxially oriented polyethylene terephthalate) as it hadn't been invented yet. But aluminum foil had been and poly plastics were fairly common. Polyethylene was invented in the 1800s.
So just to be clear, the aluminum and reflective material wasn't the balloon, but the kite radar targets. The balloon was the rubber debris part. Very ordinary balloon materials.
Nothing mysterious or other world about these.
(https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/rw/g/pics/rawinandtarget1947.jpg)
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I can answer your most recent question and the first one here. The Bermuda Triangle is a fact because it has been defined as a fact in its naming. In the same way as its a fact that your username is Uncle Peter. In the same way I don't know if you are actually an uncle and nor do I know if your real name is Peter. But factually you are known as that here. And the Bermuda triangle also exists in the same way. The answer to the second part of that is .... I have no idea. Its not my hobby horse and I don't believe I mentioned it in my OP. I do know a lot of tonnage of ships have been lost in that general area and as I stated I subscribe to aerated water as a contributing factor. That's scientific fact Peter. I cannot claim to know that its the cause in that general area. But that is a known cause of ships sinking around the world. Cool video of someone doing it on utibe too but that isn't the source of my knowledge on the subject. I won't bore you.
Atlantis - again not my hobby horse and I barely have any inclination towards it. It may as well be carpet underlay. In fact I'd probably lean towards the underlay. Philidelphia experiment. That I do know about but if its true I suspect that it was some experimental pet project that came out of Hitlers stable and is probably linked to De Gloke or however its spelled. The bell that was part of one of Hitlers projects. But again I find it fascinating but not enough to devote time to.
Noahs Ark. God doesn't exist Peter. Other than in people's minds and a book written and rewritten by men.
I could point out that the first few paragraphs of your response directly contradict you but ... meh. I've always known you're a pedant and if you do not agree with something you do not stop ranting about it. You are bombastic. It's not a problem for me but I do worry about you personally.
If you do have any UFO experiences please do post them I do find those fascinating.
So you can't say where the Bermuda Triangle is or can be the "Devils Triangle"? Or what happened to Flight 19 (the foundation of the myth), or the Mary Celeste, or many of the mysterious disappearances of ships and airplanes. Surely you aren't saying a training flight, was consumed by gas bubbles from an ocean trench?
I am in fact an Uncle, ask my Niece? ;D You didn't manage to admit your ranting and spewing of a string of personal attacks? That's convenient.
Someone please tell me where the Bermuda Triangle is Located. Location, area, general boundaries. Is that a question enough phrase even without a question mark?
ps I am not a definition I am a person, the Bermuda Triangle is a concept not a reality. Unless someone can show me where it is as a physical place?
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... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. .... skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. ...
leaving aside your continuing ad hominems.. (i tried to warn you privately in a PM but you blocked me)
your posts is wrong on so many levels - if you claim there's a tooth fairy, I'm supposed to prove there isn't? Carl Sagan's rule still applies: “extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence” ( ECREE).
then your claim that skeptics NEVER investigate or do research - did you check the links i sent earlier that refute that statement? I've been reading Skeptical Inquirer for 40 years and their primary purpose is investigation and exposing hoaxes, conspiracy theories and urban legends.
and how do you support a claim that 'no one employs skeptics'? as a self proclaimed English speaker, you should know that claims with 'never' or 'no one' are seldom true
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Now what about, the Bermuda Triangle Myth? Atlantis? The Philadelphia Experiment? And finding Noah's Ark? Honestly we're more likely to find Noah's Ark. Which if you want to consider how unlikely that story may be? The capacity of the ship/ark would be roughly 1.5 million cubic feet. But you know what, no one can prove it isn't a true story? And there are new claims over and over, that someone found Noah's Ark on some mountain top.......
on a long ago forum i was involved in discussions about bible literalism & creationism - one of the most ridiculous parts of the Noah myth is the water needed:
rather than the entire earth, just consider the area of the middle east - 3 million ft^2
height of ararat 16,800'
on our recent trip to eastern Turkey we drove over passes 7-9K' with mtns 1-2 K' higher, but most of the trip was at sea level, rising to 3,000' in Cappadocia. so consider a crude under-estimate of average height of the region of about 3,000' which would require about 14,000' of water everywhere-- (leaving an archipelago of mtn tops)
14,000 x 3 million = 42 billion cubic feet of water needed to cover most of the area
for 40 days that means about 1 billion cubic feet / day
1 billion ft^3/day / 3 million ft^2 = 333 ft /day
Even if this estimate is TWO orders of magnitude off, that still requires an unbelievable amount of water (not to mention where it could quickly drain to afterwards)
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Iran lies at an average elevation of 1305 m above sea level and is therefore one of the highest countries in the world. Turkey averages 1132 m; average elevation of Saudi Arabia is 600 m
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In the same way I don't know if you are actually an uncle and nor do I know if your real name is Peter.
Just a side note, FYI. I know Pete. I've known him for about 10 years. I know his wife. My husband has participated in his NFL tipping competitions. Pete's a genuine guy. Yes, we've had a few differences over the years, but Pete's a fact checker. ("Just the Facts, Mam" - sorry I watched part of that old Dragnet spoof movie on the weekend ;D) However, he's willing to change his mind if you can convince him with evidence.
But personal attacks just won't cut it.
And on another note, Ancient Aliens (as you wrote above) is NOT A DOCUMENTARY! lol. (doc·u·men·tal [dok-yuh-men-tl] /ˌdɒk yəˈmɛn tl/. pertaining to, consisting of, or derived from documents. Movies, Television. based on or re-creating an actual event, era, life story, etc., that purports to be factually accurate and contains no fictional elements.)
Yes, I've watched the show and most of the episodes, and yes, its very entertaining, although I've gotten bored with it lately because its just the same-old, same-old. It draws on references from archeology, mythology, religious text, etc - but they always come to the same conclusion - it was aliens! I guess the show would be called something else, if it didn't. lol
But I subscribe to Neil deGrasse Tyson's comments: "Just because you can't figure out how ancient civilizations built stuff, doesn't mean it was built by aliens"
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"So you can't say where the Bermuda Triangle is or can be the "Devils Triangle"? Or what happened to Flight 19 (the foundation of the myth), or the Mary Celeste, or many of the mysterious disappearances of ships and airplanes. Surely you aren't saying a training flight, was consumed by gas bubbles from an ocean trench?"
No Peter and nor did I claim to. I didn't even bring it up. I responded with a rather mundane science based theory that some subscribe to because it can be repeated. A cornerstone of science. And I stated it wouldn't explain lost flights but a poorly functioning compass certainly wouldn't help them locate themselves and I believe crashing into the ocean after losing all their fuel due to mistakenly assuming they were somewhere they weren't was the most accepted theory and has been for decades. But as I stated its not my hobby horse despite you apparently wanting to shove me on it for a ride.
No regarding insults to you because it was trying to make light of a rather hefty and authoritarian rant by you. I have engaged you on numerous ocassions and in the past you have always been courteous and obliging even in your secret club forum. But here you are indeed bombastic.
Well you claim to have thoroughly debunked Roswell and claim to have supplied the full facts of what occurred in Rameys office that day as if you were there that very day. Solved. Case closed. I dont believe I brought that up either but i do like a good roswell discussion. Thank you. You may have to ocassionally permit other perspectives in life with good grace. Or not.
Quite hard to find these days but I always like to hear things from the horses mouths. Dubose stating briefly his ... I guess we must call it nonsense at this point eh recorded before his death. Oh and yes I know he doesn't state what it was, but he does explain what it wasn't.
Enjoy - https://youtu.be/5msCAVORZJ0
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on a long ago forum i was involved in discussions about bible literalism & creationism - one of the most ridiculous parts of the Noah myth is the water needed:
rather than the entire earth, just consider the area of the middle east - 3 million ft^2
height of ararat 16,800'
on our recent trip to eastern Turkey we drove over passes 7-9K' with mtns 1-2 K' higher, but most of the trip was at sea level, rising to 3,000' in Cappadocia. so consider a crude under-estimate of average height of the region of about 3,000' which would require about 14,000' of water everywhere-- (leaving an archipelago of mtn tops)
14,000 x 3 million = 42 billion cubic feet of water needed to cover most of the area
for 40 days that means about 1 billion cubic feet / day
1 billion ft^3/day / 3 million ft^2 = 333 ft /day
Even if this estimate is TWO orders of magnitude off, that still requires an unbelievable amount of water (not to mention where it could quickly drain to afterwards)
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Iran lies at an average elevation of 1305 m above sea level and is therefore one of the highest countries in the world. Turkey averages 1132 m; average elevation of Saudi Arabia is 600 m
Lol, I came up with a reasonable and scientifically plausible theory for the christian flood myth along with the corresponding flood myths in many cultures around the world. You can read it all in my latest book, Payback. ;)
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As an aside, UAP has itself been renamed.
It now stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. I'm not sure why. I liked 'aerial' better (but they didn't ask me ;)).
Because there have been many reports of the objects submerging in oceans - they were transmedium craft.
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon
1951 man-made. Looks like parts could have been of the same 'tin foil' material.
The "believers" will never listen to reason and come up with the same stale "prove it's not real" which is a contradiction in logic. Prove I don't own a giant invisible frog, that lives in my yard. Impossible.
Believers don't want answers, they want the mystery and intrigue. [url]http://www.roswellproof.com/rawin_construction.html[/url] ([url]http://www.roswellproof.com/rawin_construction.html[/url])
RAWINs are basically a balsa-wood kite stick framework forming corners covered with a radar reflecting substance like aluminum foil.
The Mogul Project occasionally used the ML-307 radar target for tracking of their balloon trains. This is also the model of RAWIN displayed in Gen. Ramey's office on July 8, 1947.
([url]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4sgiiCR1W4U/UkW_6IPus2I/AAAAAAAAH8g/6zqnHeGx1qE/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/roswellmemo.jpg[/url])
But you'll see that anything that disagrees with the conspiracy, crash, aliens, Etc. will be a planned cover-up and discounted. While any wisp of a blurry note, will become proof, without a doubt. If the only evidence that is acceptable, is that which supports a theory, and all the other evidence is eliminated and discounted, of course, it's going to make a convincing story.
Roswell wasn't even an event or interesting, to anyone, not even UFO people, until someone brought it back to life years later.
In 1978, nuclear physicist, author and UFO researcher Stanton Friedman interviewed Marcel, who said that the discovery made 31 years earlier was not from this world, and that the government had ordered him to keep quiet. Friedman revisited the incident and sought other witnesses, and his work inspired Charles Berlitz and William Moore to write "The Roswell Incident" published in 1980. Their conclusion was simple: There had been a huge cover-up.
1980! Because the original incident was an error and it was resolved and the truth was known. But lets look at Friedman, Berlitz and Moore for a bit.
From Random House: Charles Berlitz, the author of The Bermuda Triangle, was a renowned linguist, lecturer, and underwater explorer. In addition to The Bermuda Triangle, which has sold over 10 million copies in twenty-three languages, Berlitz wrote other best sellers on archaeology, languages, Atlantis, and underwater exploration. Wow, there's some background, the fake Bermuda Triangle mystery that's clearly solved (The Bermuda Triangle Mystery Solved by Larry Kusche, which people who deny the truth won't pick up and read, because it goes against the mythology) Atlantis? Wait, let me point out, the author of the Roswell Incident and his writings?
The Mystery of Atlantis, 1969
Mysteries from Forgotten Worlds, 1972
The Bermuda Triangle, 1974, ISBN 0-285-63326-0
Without a Trace, 1977
The Philadelphia Experiment – Project Invisibility, 1979
The Roswell Incident, 1980
Doomsday 1999 A.D., 1981, ISBN 0-586-05543-6
Atlantis – The Eighth Continent: G. P. Putnams Sons, New York, 1984
Atlantis: The Lost Continent Revealed, Macmillan, London, 1984
The Lost Ship of Noah: In Search of the Ark at Ararat, 1987
The Dragon's Triangle, 1989
World of the Incredible but True: Ballantine Books, New York, 1991
World of Strange Phenomena: Little Brown & Company, New York, 1995
Some list, and for those who say, Friedman and Berlitz were exposing something, I'll say, they are only in it for the money. William Moore co-author.
I see where Pete brought the Bermuda Triangle into this. Berlitz wrote all those books.
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As an aside, UAP has itself been renamed.
It now stands for Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena. I'm not sure why. I liked 'aerial' better (but they didn't ask me ;)).
Because there have been many reports of the objects submerging in oceans - they were transmedium craft.
The camera before anyone lames on that aspect isn't for taking utube ready adobe filtered gorgiousness. It's taken on a mobile phone looking at one of the optical screens. It was leaked some time ago and has now been confirmed as legit by the Navy. There are plenty more out there. This is one known transmedium UFO footage.
I must admit that when the word transmedium started being bandied about I did eye roll. But it was a classification given it transpired.
July 15th - 2019 - USS Omaha - Combat Information Center 11pm pst.
https://youtu.be/bTGRK9a-oHQ (https://youtu.be/bTGRK9a-oHQ)
This event involved around 14 different craft this was one they managed to lock on. Even took place over an hour. This is edited footage which shows the UFO entering the water. It isnt a balloon that has already been debunked by the Navy and it was 1 of 14 craft that night.
DETAILS
Minimum 14 targets.
Minimum 6ft in diameter - solid mass.
Varying speeds from 40 kts - 138 kts (46 mph - 158 mph).
Flight lasting longer than an hour.
Unknowns were self-illuminated.
Neither origin, nor launch or landing points were able to be determined.
Unknown vehicles picked up on more than two types of RADAR.
Still images of this footage were included in the May 1st, 2020 UAPTF intelligence briefing that I have previously reported on.
It is noted in intelligence reports that the “spherical” craft appeared to be transmedium capable, and were observed descending into the water without destruction.
It is noted in intelligence reports that the “spherical” craft could not be found upon entry to the water - that a submarine was used in the search - and recovered nothing.
This footage is unclassified.
Craft remain officially - unidentified.
Source - Jeremy Corbell - https://www.extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-filmed-spherical-ufos (https://www.extraordinarybeliefs.com/news4/navy-filmed-spherical-ufos)
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Not obviously transmedium but never the less interesting professional equipment footage ...
Uk - Bristol area - National Police Air Service Sept 16 2016
On the return to base 21.30 pm pitch black they do some thermal camera training. They intend to attempt to track a plane coming out of Cardiff Airport using the on board camera. These cameras are equipped with IR thermal imagining as well as day cameras. They often find pot growing locations due to the high thermal signatures given off in people's roofs. It's quite common in the UK.
Whilst panning around attempting to find a plane they catch a different contact. One inconsistency is that they later state that the on board clock onscreen is an hour off. They couldn't upload direct to twitter so they recorded the screen on a mobile and uploaded that.
You can follow the conversation on twitter as they attempt to answer questions after speaking to the crew. A good argument was made on twitter for a Chinese lantern. However it was debunked for the following reasons.
Object was only visible in TI mode. Daylight mode showed no object at all.
Object was travelling against the wind.
Object proved impossible to keep up with in the helicopter as they gave chase.
Bristol Air Traffic Controll couldn't find it on radar.
They estimate altitude to be around 1000 feet. This would make another aircraft unlikely too. Too low for air traffic over that area because Air traffic requires you to fly above a certain height. And night flights are limited to those who hold that license and ATC would have a record of them on radar.
https://twitter.com/i/status/779325831101423617
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Yeah Roswell, a nice photo for someone with a radar tracking balloon, and for all the proof and evidence and answers, confirming it's nothing? The story grows and grows. People like a good mystery, and that one brings in tourists.
Just like Nessy, Champ, sasquach, the Bermuda Triangle or so many more. Well OK Area 51 is really something, but mythical beasts and UFOs that are satellites, landing lights, Venus, "strange disappearances" and most of the time very well explained, are the basis for a whole mythology.
Good for public speakers, books, blogs and radio talk hosts.
People who outgrew, ghosts, faeries, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus, still have more modern adventures, searching for outer space visitors.
The voice of reason - thank you!
It is interesting how easily otherwise intelligent people get sucked into believing nonsense. It was just a year or two ago the U.S. military released a bunch of videos with UAPs, some of which the military seemed to take seriously. My first thought when looking at them was that they were artifacts, small insects close to the lens and similar things like that. I don't have the knowledge or skills to prove it but those who do dissected them easily.
Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists". As far as I could ever make out, the "Ancient Astronaut Theorists" (or whatever it is they called themselves) is about three guys in their 40s who live in their mothers' basements and probably sleep with tinfoil hats on. And that one guy with the wild hair - who wouldn't believe a guy who looks like that?
There was another show on SyFy or the History channel, I forget, about hunting for bigfoot. Those guys were true believers and one of them, named Bobo or something, looked like he might have been part sasquatch himself. They went all over the country and it seemed like no matter where they went they could find people who were sure they had seen bigfoot nearby. This was not just the Pacific Northwest, which at least has large, wild, forested areas that could potentially hide such a creature, but in eastern states like North Carolina, Rhode Island, New Jersey, etc. They had created a whole lore about bigfoot including behavioral characteristics such as calls and knocking on trees with sticks, which sasquatches supposedly use to communicate. The fact that this 7-foot tall, apelike creature that is supposedly common enough to be seen often throughout North America has left exactly zero physical evidence over hundreds of years of recorded history never seemed to bother them. In the rare instances where someone supposedly recovered bigfoot fur, DNA tests always came up as bear, wolf or coyote, yet this never deterred the true believers.
It is a very interesting phenomenon. For many people, once they get locked into a belief, no amount of evidence or data will ever convince them they are wrong, and in fact causes them to believe more strongly. It makes no sense to me but seems to be a common part of human nature.
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author=sgoodwin4813
The voice of reason - thank you!
It is interesting how easily otherwise intelligent people get sucked into believing nonsense. It was just a year or two ago the U.S. military released a bunch of videos with UAPs, some of which the military seemed to take seriously. My first thought when looking at them was that they were artifacts, small insects close to the lens and similar things like that. I don't have the knowledge or skills to prove it but those who do dissected them easily ...
... sgoodwin is referring to the videos known as Go Fast. Gimble and Tic Tac. And the above opinion is everything wrong with serious investigation of UAP today. Not to make a personal attack at all. It just highlights perfectly the lack of any serious critical thinking. The fact that as he/she says they look like artifacts or small insects close to the lense is t first blush plausable. They admit they don't have the skills or knowledge but those who do easily dissected the videos. (Enter Mick West who is at this stage a laughing stock.)
But that is only at first blush. Sgoodwin further states that the military 'seemed' to take them seriously. And this is a problem isn't it. Because if we take this information without looking ourselves it's easy to write it off. But it is poor information. No disrespect Sgoodwin at all and thank you for sharing your opinion and highlighting perfectly the reason information like this is easily armchair debunked.
The videos were the tipping point for Congress. They were filmed in 2004 (tic tac), 2014-2015 (go fast and gimble).
In I believe 2015 the three videos made their way onto the Internet onto a site. They remained there for a short period of time and were suddenly taken down. But taken down too late. They were mirrored everywhere particularly utube. They remained there being taken down and re- appearing for a further 2 years and then. Utube was rife with armchair experts and balloons, seagulls, bugs etc .. were the common assessment but ultimately for a long period of time the overall 'facts' were that they were categorically FAKE. 'Look at the image quality clearly fake'.
Looking at them at initial release on utube you couldn't wish for a more mundane collection and most couldn't even begin to understand what they were looking at. Truly I watched them with great excitement and laughed. But I did spend quite a bit of time reading all the comments. Experts are everywhere and amongst the experts and believers, birds and dirt on the lens a couple of people were showing shock at how FLIR footage had made it into the net. I am familiar with night vision imagery and it looked like that to me. But what was FLIR. As it happens all the footage was filmed in daylight.
in 2017 the New York Times broke the story after meeting with George Knapp and David Fravor.
David Fravor served 24 years in the military.
Pilot for the navy for 18 years in various aircraft
Top Gun pilot
Top Gun instructor.
Commander of the black aces - Strike Fighter Squadron 41
Had been off the West Coast of the US conducting air and sea trials when he was ordered to go off the training schedule and investigate radar readings at a particularl location. He was accompanied by his rear seat co crew and another fighter jet crewed by two also. They arrived at the co-ordinates and in the calm sea below them saw a large X shaped submerged craft like an airliner in size with waves breaking across it. Zig zaging over the craft was a 40 foot tic tak shaped white craft with no visible markings or form of propulsion. After a short period of time the Tic Tac engaged them and Fravor flew down to get a closer look. It travelled up to meet them and mimicked Fravors spiral down. After getting within 0.5 of a mile close to the craft it vanished. Not literally. But it moved so fast they lost it in a blink. On their return he and the other pilot who had remained aloft to give another perspective spoke with their crew and colleagues by the crew of the USS Nimitz Carrier. It was at this point he discovered the Nimitz had been tracking these craft for weeks. But because of the tight training schedule hadn't been in a position to send anyone to take a look. After this several other pilots did the same and attempted to film them. I think itbwas Chad Underwood who first manages to lock the FLIR targeting camera on the TIC TAC which is the video you see ifnyou Google it. The other two videos were filmed in the same way by different pilots.
And the story broke. And instead of shocking the world it perpetuation more morons to deliberately or otherwise attempt to pass this off as drunk pilots who didn't know what they were looking at. If anything the cries of fake got louder. David Fravor was dragged to speak to high ranking government officials to explain further. But not initially. Initially they approached the female pilot in the jet that remained aloft. She was friends with David after they had left the navy and asked him for advice. Because she had been very annoyed at the time, that these craft hadn't been mentioned. It was after all a serious air safety concern. Some of the pilots had very near misses. They had tracked these variety of craft moving between +80,000 feet and sea level in a couple of seconds. Across multiple radar equipment and visually and filmed them. She had been the person attending government meetings to explain the events. She asked David Fravor for advice and he offered to go to some meetings.
The rest is spread across the Internet and easily found. David Fravor gives a full and detailed explanation on the Joe Rogan podcast. It is available on utube but it is a edited version. So only quite short. The full version is available if you Google it (don't know if you can mention the app) but Joe Rogan uses that almost exclusively to house his podcasts which he also films. David Fravor takes you through the videos explaining in great detail what is being filmed. Another pilot who also witnessed the craft is Ryan Graves.
These were not sporadic events. The Navy Pilots witnessed these craft daily ... for hours at a time.
Anyone who claims the footage is artifacts, insects or birds clearly hasn't done any and I mean less than zero research at all for at least a decade. And the government agrees and has created a task force to investigate every report.
David Fravor, Chad Underwood, Ryan Graves and Lt. Cmdr. Alex Dietrich and many more.
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Here are some analyses of the military UAP videos by those who know what they are doing:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/great-expectations-ufos-in-congress/ (https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/great-expectations-ufos-in-congress/)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html)
I could link many more but it's not worth the effort. The conclusion from all of them: nothing to see there. Certainly nothing indicating extraterrestrials. But I know no amount of logic and critical thinking are going to influence the true believers.
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Here are some analyses of the military UAP videos by those who know what they are doing:
https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/great-expectations-ufos-in-congress/ (https://skepticalinquirer.org/exclusive/great-expectations-ufos-in-congress/)
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/28/us/politics/ufo-military-reports.html)
I could link many more but it's not worth the effort. The conclusion from all of them: nothing to see there. Certainly nothing indicating extraterrestrials. But I know no amount of logic and critical thinking are going to influence the true believers.
The New York Times released the story about the experience of David Fravor who's credentials are beyond reproach. Certainly no one at the New York Times can poo poo him or the many other pilots lol.
And the other link you provide begins with ...
"That team spent two years trying to figure out one UFO before failing utterly, giving up, and releasing the video as a “genuine” UFO. People online (including me) then solved the case in a few days (West 2017). "
And there it is ... West 2017. Mick West lol. I'm afraid you lost your footing there. Mick West is a individual who's credibility is up there with Steven Greer. It wasn't worth reading beyond that I'm afraid.
Mick West is a computer programmer who has never served in the military. And after his company Neversoft made some great games he sat around and thought what can I do with my life ... I know ill start debunking stuff and ill start with ... chuckle ... "morgellons" ... 🤣 🤣 🤣
He isn't medically trained either. He also doesn't have any experience in the mental health world. But that's not gonna stop our Mick is it 🤣🤣🤣 Nope he was fairly confident and confided this "I wrote like a hundred little articles on Morgellons. Because I have this background in video game programming and debugging and investigating things, I was able to do fairly deep technical investigations of things ..." well of course ... he should shouldn't he ... being the expert he was. Peer reviewed were they? But bitten by the bug he now. spends his time debunking everything with his expertise.
Meanwhile a short while later he decided to dip his toe into the 9/11 conspiracy ... and good luck with that. However one particular aspect of some research I did was very interesting regarding 9/11 and I've never seen it mentioned. However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ... have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone ... 🤫
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.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ... have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone ... 🤫
where are the peer reviews in scientific journals for your stories? do you have even one?
and what proof are you referring to? or just another unsupported WAG? there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support a flat or hollow earth
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
I have seen a UFO, but it was the purest from a definition. String of lights, up in the sky, unidentified. But they are not identified either. I mean it wasn't something that traveled or looked like what people call UFOs and Mysterious Space Craft. Just dots of light in the sky. Maybe a geosynchronous weather satellite? But unidentified.
And by the way, only some people assume that these sightings, most of them lights, are alien ships, there's no proof of that. USAF position in 1968 "there seems to be no reason to attribute [the unexplained sightings] to an extraterrestrial source without much more convincing evidence." They aren't saying UFO don't exist or anything else, except there's no evidence that they are extraterrestrial, without more evidence. A careful simple statement of truth.
However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.
I will now return to my regularly scheduled forum messages:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pr59Rqr5/microstock-zone.jpg)
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]
.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ... have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone ... 🤫
where are the peer reviews in scientific journals for your stories? do you have even one?
and what proof are you referring to? or just another unsupported WAG? there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support flat earth
But I showed you a screen grab of the statement ... can someone who is under hypnosis be used to crash a plane or wreck a train.
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
I have seen a UFO, but it was the purest from a definition. String of lights, up in the sky, unidentified. But they are not identified either. I mean it wasn't something that traveled or looked like what people call UFOs and Mysterious Space Craft. Just dots of light in the sky. Maybe a geosynchronous weather satellite? But unidentified.
And by the way, only some people assume that these sightings, most of them lights, are alien ships, there's no proof of that. USAF position in 1968 "there seems to be no reason to attribute [the unexplained sightings] to an extraterrestrial source without much more convincing evidence." They aren't saying UFO don't exist or anything else, except there's no evidence that they are extraterrestrial, without more evidence. A careful simple statement of truth.
However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.
I will now return to my regularly scheduled forum messages:
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pr59Rqr5/microstock-zone.jpg)
The string of lights may have been Starlink Peter. We get it here quite often. I gave up counting after 24 passed over. Its been the bane of many an astrophotographer. Their schedule is like the ISS mapped out so you may be able to work it back maybe. But then I didn't see the string so I don't know how close together it all was over what period of time etc nor how long ago. But if recent it's a good bet.
And regarding the time lapse cameras that haven't recorded anything I'll behave like a skeptic so you can enjoy how it feels 😊
e.g. Pah time lapse you say ... what for a 10 whole minutes. Were you even looking for anything and let's be honest what qualifications do you even have in time lapse. Honestly these "photographers" find a button on their cameras and think they're experts. Show me an example of one of your so called time lapses so I can see the quality and see if you're even capable of processing one correctly and then we might be able to talk. Until then youre just another happy snapper with a catalogue toy ... 🤣
... actually that was quite fun I may go full time skeptic. If only you would accept that our earth is flat then we could have common ground but you refuse to believe it.
As an aside I tried to get some satellites last night as there were a lot of them and an occasional plane even the dimest star showed up but no streaks across the sky. Wieeeeerd. None. And I'm wondering if the rumour is true that phone camera software now edits crap out. Stars were all there. No streaks. It certainly used to. No longer does. what.
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]
.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ... have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone ... 🤫
where are the peer reviews in scientific journals for your stories? do you have even one?
and what proof are you referring to? or just another unsupported WAG? there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support a flat or hollow earth
But I showed you a screen grab of the statement ... can someone who is under hypnosis be used to crash a plane or wreck a train.
do you understand the concept of peer review? yours is just another unsupported anecdote - ie, worthless as evidence
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However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.
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However : Absence of evidence of an extraordinary claim is not worth considering..
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... is a computer programmer who has never served in the military. ...
He isn't medically trained either. He also doesn't have any experience in the mental health world.
Not sure what being in the military, having medical or mental health training has to do with analyzing claims of extraterrestrials. That is all irrelevant.
It doesn't matter how much logic or analysis is presented some people are never going to change their minds so it isn't worth the effort trying. Enjoy your delusions.
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]
.... Peer reviewed were they? ...
.../ However it fairly and Squarely proves that a part of the US governmnent could ... could ... slim possibility ... have potentially engineered the whole thing ... anyone lol. Its just a few clicks away ... can I tempt anyone ... 🤫
where are the peer reviews in scientific journals for your stories? do you have even one?
and what proof are you referring to? or just another unsupported WAG? there so many qualifiers in your last claim that similar 'thinking' could support a flat or hollow earth
But I showed you a screen grab of the statement ... can someone who is under hypnosis be used to crash a plane or wreck a train.
do you understand the concept of peer review? yours is just another unsupported anecdote - ie, worthless as evidence
You were placed on ignore because some time ago and out of the blue you were beyond obnoxious and not just to me. Its kinda your thing which appears to continue unchecked. I placed you on ignore because you are a distraction from moving forward in any discussion toward a potentially interesting conclusion or further information. Out of politeness I responded to your last of many posts.
An anecdote as you put it is not worthless as evidence. We live by the unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence every day. If you stopped long enough from mashing your keyboard and calmed down you would realise how silly your claim is. Dietary advice, fitness advice, purchases, food critics, holiday reviews, financial advice, main stream media, Google, everything on utube, what glue to use for inner tube repair and climate "CRISIS"!!!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhhh ... anecdotal evidence is everywhere. And you like everyone yaffles it up.
But you'll have to go back on ignore I'm afraid you are far too attack, attack, attack and lack any technique.
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... is a computer programmer who has never served in the military. ...
He isn't medically trained either. He also doesn't have any experience in the mental health world.
Not sure what being in the military, having medical or mental health training has to do with analyzing claims of extraterrestrials. That is all irrelevant.
It doesn't matter how much logic or analysis is presented some people are never going to change their minds so it isn't worth the effort trying. Enjoy your delusions.
You call a plumber to prescribe you medicine?
Take any sick pets to the bakers for treatment?
Send your children to the local Greek Taverna for their education and a healthy lifestyle?
I Know you aren't that stupid and you know Mick West is a quack.
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May 2021 a string if lights appear very similar to the Phoenix lights. And one of the observers captures this photo. No noise completely silent.
https://twitter.com/TaskandPurpose/status/1435030398397030400/photo/1 (https://twitter.com/TaskandPurpose/status/1435030398397030400/photo/1)
https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/05/22/21/71284561-0-image-a-17_1684785879804.jpg (https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/05/22/21/71284561-0-image-a-17_1684785879804.jpg)
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
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An anecdote as you put it is not worthless as evidence. We live by the unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence every day. If you stopped long enough from mashing your keyboard and calmed down you would realise how silly your claim is. Dietary advice, fitness advice, purchases, food critics, holiday reviews, financial advice, main stream media, Google, everything on utube, what glue to use for inner tube repair and climate "CRISIS"!!!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhhh ... anecdotal evidence is everywhere. And you like everyone yaffles it up.
...
all of which proves my point -- almost all that advice is anecdotal (much of it paid for by those selling a product; most negative results from pharmaceutical companies, eg, is never published, as demonstrated by whistle blowers) -- curious how you also slipped in climate change - the only peer reviewed, scientific consensus in your list! or do you believe wildfires are caused by lizard lasers?
and you just show how harmful it is for so much nonsense lives on the internet (and what effect it has on chatbots trained on garbage (GIGO))
i read but don't trust advice & reviews unless they're from a source that has been proved truthful in the past
corollary to previous adage:
Quantity of unsupported anecdotes is not evidence of truth of those anecdotes
finally, sorry if my pointing out your logical fallacies and misinformation has caused you angst
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you thinknit does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
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An anecdote as you put it is not worthless as evidence. We live by the unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence every day. If you stopped long enough from mashing your keyboard and calmed down you would realise how silly your claim is. Dietary advice, fitness advice, purchases, food critics, holiday reviews, financial advice, main stream media, Google, everything on utube, what glue to use for inner tube repair and climate "CRISIS"!!!!!!!!!! Arghhhhhhhhhhh ... anecdotal evidence is everywhere. And you like everyone yaffles it up.
...
all of which proves my point -- almost all that advice is anecdotal (much of it paid for by those selling a product; most negative results from pharmaceutical companies, eg, is never published, as demonstrated by whistle blowers) -- curious how you also slipped in climate change - the only peer reviewed, scientific consensus in your list! or do you believe wildfires are caused by lizard lasers?
and you just show how harmful it is for so much nonsense lives on the internet (and what effect it has on chatbots trained on garbage (GIGO))
i read but don't trust advice & reviews unless they're from a source that has been proved truthful in the past
corollary to previous adage:
Quantity of unsupported anecdotes is not evidence of truth of those anecdotes
finally, sorry if my pointing out your logical fallacies and misinformation has caused you angst
I'll soldier on. And now to slip the onus onto you ...
Talking of wild claims
"most negative results from pharmaceutical companies, eg, is never published, as demonstrated by whistle blowers"
Citation please 😊
"and you just show how harmful it is for so much nonsense lives on the internet (and what effect it has on chatbots trained on garbage (GIGO))"
Citation please
"i read but don't trust advice & reviews unless they're from a source that has been proved truthful in the past"
Surely that requires trusting unsubstantiated advice and reviews to find that your trust was correct or incorrect. Reviews are just opinions from randoms on the Internet or likley coming back to your first point that they have skin in the game and cannot be trusted.
Lol what are you an off grid happy clapper. Please tell me you believe in God. oh please 🙏, pretty please with a cherry on top lol.
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you thinknit does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with the scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that scientific tests should be able to provide empirical support for it, or empirical contradiction ("falsify") of it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[1] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which in formal terms is better characterized by the word hypothesis).
Theories guide the enterprise of finding facts rather than of reaching goals, and are neutral concerning alternatives among values.[3]: 131 A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[4]: 46
The word theory or "in theory" is sometimes used erroneously by people to explain something which they individually did not experience or test before."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you think it does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with the scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that scientific tests should be able to provide empirical support for it, or empirical contradiction ("falsify") of it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[1] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which in formal terms is better characterized by the word hypothesis).
Theories guide the enterprise of finding facts rather than of reaching goals, and are neutral concerning alternatives among values.[3]: 131 A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[4]: 46
The word theory or "in theory" is sometimes used erroneously by people to explain something which they individually did not experience or test before."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
I didn't think you did.
You are mistakenly thinking that "theory" means one thing and can only be used regarding scientific theory. The word scientific here merely contextualises the word theory's use. When using the word scientific in front of theory you give it the meaning you suggest.
As you show, another use is to use the word 'in' before theory. Your Wikipedia cut and paste states that in this case the words 'in theory' are used incorrectly and the word that should be used is hypothesis because it isnt tested.
In scientific paper useage this would be true. In terms of common parlance it is not.
Specifically in your initial stab at it you state:
"A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion."
This was not correct. If you want it to mean what you intended you need to write "A scientifc theory is only valid if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a scientifically proven theory - its just an untested hypothesis."
Then not only is the example you gave written correctly it also conveys the meaning you intended. Using 'opinion' would be snooty and superior. That's not you is it Annie?
If you had read that bit above your cut and paste you would have seen it states "For theories in science, see Scientific theory. For other uses, see Theory (disambiguation)."
"A scientific theory is an explanation of an aspect of the natural world and universe that has been repeatedly tested and corroborated in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment.[1][2] In circumstances not amenable to experimental testing, theories are evaluated through principles of abductive reasoning. Established scientific theories have withstood rigorous scrutiny and embody scientific knowledge."
Abductive reasoning = best guess based on the facts at hand, opinion, logical inference ... etc ... blah blah blah
I don't subscribe to aliens having built the pyramids though there is no evidence ro suggest they didn't. But there is a rather cool study of the pyramids which people should watch. It's on utube. And one of the archaeologist who has studied all the tools available (all the excavated tools), and did a series of experiments over a period of time. Specifically in cutting the stones required to build the pyramids. And using just the tools they have found across all sites and techniques that the tools imply .... they would still be building them today. Not enough time has passed to finish them. The conclusion is that they are far older than believed.
Much of the stone cut is so tightly fitting you cannot even get a human hair between them. The joins are so accurate. And modern studies of the cut surfaces show the use of modern tools. As in modern disk saw technology leaves tool marks on stone surfaces and they have found the same markings on the stones. I think I also read somewhere that the hieroglyphic paintings across all the sites show some amazing things. Allegedly none show the Egyptians using any of the tools found. Although you will find images in text books showing them using the tools, none of them are based in fact. If thats true it can mean only one thing clearly .... alemims Annie ... 👽.. alemims 😲
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you think it does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with the scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that scientific tests should be able to provide empirical support for it, or empirical contradiction ("falsify") of it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[1] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which in formal terms is better characterized by the word hypothesis).
Theories guide the enterprise of finding facts rather than of reaching goals, and are neutral concerning alternatives among values.[3]: 131 A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[4]: 46
The word theory or "in theory" is sometimes used erroneously by people to explain something which they individually did not experience or test before."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
I didn't think you did.
haha That was exactly what I was going to say to you above - that you haven't studied much science, have you? But I didn't want to get into any personal attacks.
But If that's what makes you feel better, go ahead, have fun with it.
Have a nice day, Lowls :)
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you think it does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
"In modern science, the term "theory" refers to scientific theories, a well-confirmed type of explanation of nature, made in a way consistent with the scientific method, and fulfilling the criteria required by modern science. Such theories are described in such a way that scientific tests should be able to provide empirical support for it, or empirical contradiction ("falsify") of it. Scientific theories are the most reliable, rigorous, and comprehensive form of scientific knowledge,[1] in contrast to more common uses of the word "theory" that imply that something is unproven or speculative (which in formal terms is better characterized by the word hypothesis).
Theories guide the enterprise of finding facts rather than of reaching goals, and are neutral concerning alternatives among values.[3]: 131 A theory can be a body of knowledge, which may or may not be associated with particular explanatory models. To theorize is to develop this body of knowledge.[4]: 46
The word theory or "in theory" is sometimes used erroneously by people to explain something which they individually did not experience or test before."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory
I didn't think you did.
haha That was exactly what I was going to say to you above - that you haven't studied much science, have you? But I didn't want to get into any personal attacks.
But If that's what makes you feel better, go ahead, have fun with it.
Have a nice day, Lowls :)
I have several qualifications in all the sciences apart from one Annie and quite a few in English 😉
However chemistry was and for ever shall be the most boring hideous waste of my time. I had two chemistry teachers. My first was an amazing man who delved and created and spun magical lessons where every minute was exciting. And because I did well they handed me up to a "better" teacher. And he was a tit who would regularly have a nervous breakdown. We may have lit the bunsen burner tap whilst it was on full sending an arc of fire across the classroom engulfing two other students briefly. I may have smothered the door handle in vaseline on more than one ocassion. But it was urghh ... powders and ... chemical bonds ... jesus ..
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you thinknit does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
You have no understand of how science works, especially for someone who claims to have studied. Making claims that something is a UFO, is not a theory, but a statement of fact. Pure conjecture, peer review, there's none. Anyone anywhere can write some claims and fabricate a story and publish that, when it's pseudoscience and UFOs. This is backwards and you don't understand. The system isn't write about some UAP and then demand that someone else prove it's not.
Real science has review of theories and articles and studies, before they can be published, in a journal. Proof is evidence that's collected and repeatable that others can study. The questions are about proving something is true first, before making a claim. All you have is your close minded belief and you block out and deny everything that doesn't fit your personal theory. Real study includes everything in order to balance what is claimed. You only include what fits your theory. That is close minded thinking not what you think is open minded.
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Slightly off on a tangent, but LOL, people who think that what they can see with their own eyes and photograph is the whole of reality are like the ones in Plato's cave. If you think the phenomenon is only about some alleged extraterrestrials coming in spaceships, you don't even realize how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Guys, everything you know is wrong.
Although, sometimes being wrong can be great and can be progress - it means we understand the question. But often, we are not even wrong - we don't even understand the question, like a dog asked if Australia is larger or smaller than Cuba.
Watch this, as an introduction, especially if science is important to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY)
Then check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7BxlWlvzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7BxlWlvzc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhGYsUitgNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhGYsUitgNk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BULYFf8qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BULYFf8qo)
Most of you/us have been living in Plato's cave, all our lives. Debunking UFOs is so 1985, it is like arguing about shadows on the walls of Plato's cave...
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Some of the TV shows about these kinds of things are amusing entertainment but that is about it. The Ancient Aliens guys are interesting because they present some evidence that almost sounds reasonable and is highly believed by the respected "Ancient Astronaut Theorists".
Yes.
A theory is only a theory if it is testable. For example, they can say that aliens built the pyramids, or gave the technology to humans to build them, but because that claim cannot be tested, it is not a theory - its just an opinion.
I don't think theory means what you thinknit does.
String theory.
Darwins theory of evolution.
The theory of everything not My opinion on it.
Her theory was that all children want to learn.
There is no evidence on which to base such a theory.
You have no understand of how science works, especially for someone who claims to have studied. Making claims that something is a UFO, is not a theory, but a statement of fact. Pure conjecture, peer review, there's none. Anyone anywhere can write some claims and fabricate a story and publish that, when it's pseudoscience and UFOs. This is backwards and you don't understand. The system isn't write about some UAP and then demand that someone else prove it's not.
Real science has review of theories and articles and studies, before they can be published, in a journal. Proof is evidence that's collected and repeatable that others can study. The questions are about proving something is true first, before making a claim. All you have is your close minded belief and you block out and deny everything that doesn't fit your personal theory. Real study includes everything in order to balance what is claimed. You only include what fits your theory. That is close minded thinking not what you think is open minded.
I'm going to print and frame that like a comic. No conjecture at all there.
It's funny when I've lived the life I have and done the things I have done and I look back on all that. All those years. And in all those years, when I look back the one thing that comes to mind is this ... who the f are you lol. I don't remember you being in my life at all. Is that you mum?
I don't remember labelling anything as a UFO other than the video links I've supplied which whilst new ish on the world stage aren't new to anyone interested in that area. And those cases have already been examined by the US government under a at the time secret governmnent task team and categorised as UFOs. The Bristol UFO was what it was. Take it as you find it. I rather like the Chinese lantern theory offered by someone on twitter because they look identical but then the actual trained observers (that's the official term for people of integrity who are trained) explained that their helicopter couldn't catch it and it was flying into then wind. Which rather rules the lantern out. Now if you call that closed minded then I cant stop you but you're delusional.
But I'll take the cristicism and ask you a fair question because you imply that I don't know what a UFO is. Please define a UFO UAP take your pick. And I'll happily listen.
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Speaking of aliens.
NYC Spends $8 Million a Day to House Migrants as Influx Swells
The costs associated with the migrant crisis are ballooning beyond the city’s ability to afford them, city officials have repeatedly warned. The cost of sheltering and caring for the migrant population will reach $4.3 billion by July 1 of next year, according to city estimates — but the total cost could be much larger if recent immigration trends continue
Seems they found it's easy to be a sanctuary city in theory, but much different when it becomes the reality.
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Slightly off on a tangent, but LOL, people who think that what they can see with their own eyes and photograph is the whole of reality are like the ones in Plato's cave. If you think the phenomenon is only about some alleged extraterrestrials coming in spaceships, you don't even realize how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Guys, everything you know is wrong.
Although, sometimes being wrong can be great and can be progress - it means we understand the question. But often, we are not even wrong - we don't even understand the question, like a dog asked if Australia is larger or smaller than Cuba.
Watch this, as an introduction, especially if science is important to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY)
Then check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAB21FAXCDE)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7BxlWlvzc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2m7BxlWlvzc)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhGYsUitgNk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vhGYsUitgNk)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BULYFf8qo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1BULYFf8qo)
Most of you/us have been living in Plato's cave, all our lives. Debunking UFOs is so 1985, it is like arguing about shadows on the walls of Plato's cave...
Do we see reality as it is hahahahahaha jesus. I watched that one and brilliant. He's missing that linking part isn't he between theory and I guess proof. Although there are indications that he is totally right, he can't get to ... andnthat proof or example is true for all experiences. There are a couple of experiences which don't fit with that and one is the experience of gravity because that isn't like most things a perception or experience viewed through the interface. Gravity happens and happens regardless of being witnessed by us through our as he explains it interface. And you can prove that because of planets with no known life or witness with an interface with which to view it. They still have mass which forms the planet. I guess he would argue that ... there is no planet potentially just a set of experiences that cause us to construct the planet using our interface (I'm just using his terminology). It's a very expanded version of if a tree falls in the woods and no one sees it, does it still fall. I've always said yes because something will witness it. A bug or a microbe anything. What he susggests is that if there were no things that possessed a consciousness there, then not only does the tree not fall, but there isn't even a wood. It needs consciousness to construct it in order to exist. But this brings us to his other problem ... if he is right then consciousness requires a witness to exist ... and that's what's missing from his theory. The identity of that witness.
Yeah lol for ever we were the goldilocks planet ... rare as hens teeth. An argument used by skeptics to debunk other life inbthe universe. Which is funny because SETI gets millions trying to prove the opposite. Headed up by Shostak who believes the opposite of that lol. And yet we had the drake equation which in theory (☺️ Annie), mathematically proved we were not that rare. I'm old enough to remember that Skeptics and the science community generally or rather would openly swear on their children's lives that they had kissed a unicorns arse before they would admit they trusted or believed in the Drake equation. Now after James Webb they've proved the drake equation is rubbish. The numbers were wrong. His equation underestimated the number of planets out there.
The hints that this guy is right that I am aware of are the odd optical tricks our brains and eyes play on us.
Many years ago my friends and I visited a place allegedly haunted. We just stayed there we didn't go for some ghost hunting etc. We all congregated in one hotel room after a day out (no drinking it just wasn't that kind of day). Anyway we were laughing and joking. The curtains were drawn. And in the small ours at the window there came a tap tap tap ... we fell silent. Then a thud thud thud. Well gotta say our blood ran cold and we all stood up. The bangs on the window were very loud. Then suddenly without any warning a hand burst through the curtains. In that split second 5 lads tried to take out the door frame of that hotel room. It was hilarious. Totally terrified. Men can scream. We eventually settled down and ventured back into the room and searched it ... very shaken we were. And as we recounted what had happened and we all remembered the hand lunging through the curtain one of our friends said ... I didn't see any hand. All the rest of us had. Clearly. And we all agreed it was someone's right hand and forearm. He had seen none of that. He was so scared he had been at the back nearest the door lol. He'd been hungry and was about to snack on an orange when the banging started and at some point had thrown the orange at the curtain. It entered the top and dropped down and as it hit the frame it flicked it through the curtain. That's what we had seen. We all constructed a right arm and hand except him. He had ran because we all ran. Bizzare as it was four of us constructed that hand. Not a face. Not a leg, dog, ghostly child. No a right outstretched hand. A man's as well. Still no idea what the banging was caused by to this day but we were on the ground floor. Could have been snagging in another room.
The important thing is did we as a collective concuousness manifest that construct of a hand and experience it equally visually. A shared thought. Cambridge University have measured brain waves about a meter beyond our skull so maybe it travels further.
Another is that utube clip where you get shown a picture of a tropical beach to look and look at the spot in centre. ... ill find it https://youtu.be/MJJBE6ZI7dI (https://youtu.be/MJJBE6ZI7dI)
I cant quite remember the effect that this example exploits. Another one explains that because of how the eye works an orange for example is every colour apart from orange. Because the mechanisms that register colours and colour wavelengths get tired and fade to leave the only wavelength that isn't being used. We were taught at school with the colour wheel that spinning turns it white proving that light is made up of a spectrum of colours. Over simplified obviously but that colour is light hitting a surface and only a particular wavelength escapes the surface and we generally all see that colour. But colour blind people see a different colour. Maybe they aren't defective and are actually more evolved. There are some people that can see the infra red spectrum and then you have tetrachromacy which is another level. Another is smell causing taste. Made more apparent because of covid.
The above could also explain away UFOs as nothing more than collective mistaken observation. If it weren't for all the mechanical ... scientific ... supporting ... evidence. 😊
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Do we see reality as it is hahahahahaha jesus. I watched that one and brilliant. He's missing that linking part isn't he between theory and I guess proof. Although there are indications that he is totally right, he can't get to ... andnthat proof or example is true for all experiences. There are a couple of experiences which don't fit with that and one is the experience of gravity because that isn't like most things a perception or experience viewed through the interface. Gravity happens and happens regardless of being witnessed by us through our as he explains it interface. And you can prove that because of planets with no known life or witness with an interface with which to view it. They still have mass which forms the planet. I guess he would argue that ... there is no planet potentially just a set of experiences that cause us to construct the planet using our interface (I'm just using his terminology). It's a very expanded version of if a tree falls in the woods and no one sees it, does it still fall. I've always said yes because something will witness it. A bug or a microbe anything. What he susggests is that if there were no things that possessed a consciousness there, then not only does the tree not fall, but there isn't even a wood. It needs consciousness to construct it in order to exist. But this brings us to his other problem ... if he is right then consciousness requires a witness to exist ... and that's what's missing from his theory. The identity of that witness.
You haven't understood idealism. Consciousness is fundamental and it doesn't require a witness to exist. It just is. It is what it is, and it contains everything. There are many various processes inside of it. Gravity is just a subroutine or a process inside the interface. Matter cannot be fundamental, because such an assumption leaves you with the so-called hard problem of consciousness, and it just can't explain the double-slit experiment and quantum entanglement. Materialism was useful in explaining certain phenomena, but at some point it collapses like a house of cards. Like Newton's theory was superseded by Einstein's relativity theory - materialism is an obsolete model. In idealism, there is no hard problem of consciousness, no problem with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. Watch Bernardo Kastrup's interviews to grasp it. Plato knew it 2500 years ago, in Asia they have known it for thousands of years, in Europe German idealists like Kant knew it too - they just used different metaphors to describe it. Materialism confuses the map with the territory.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spacetime+is+doomed (https://www.google.com/search?q=spacetime+is+doomed)
https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=124 (https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=124)
https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=962 (https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=962)
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You haven't understood idealism. Consciousness is fundamental and it doesn't require a witness to exist. It just is. It is what it is, and it contains everything. There are many various processes inside of it. Gravity is just a subroutine or a process inside the interface. Matter cannot be fundamental, because such an assumption leaves you with the so-called hard problem of consciousness, and it just can't explain the double-slit experiment and quantum entanglement. Materialism was useful in explaining certain phenomena, but at some point it collapses like a house of cards. Like Newton's theory was superseded by Einstein's relativity theory - materialism is an obsolete model. In idealism, there is no hard problem of consciousness, no problem with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. Watch Bernardo Kastrup's interviews to grasp it. Plato knew it 2500 years ago, in Asia they have known it for thousands of years, in Europe German idealists like Kant knew it too - they just used different metaphors to describe it. Materialism confuses the map with the territory.
https://www.google.com/search?q=spacetime+is+doomed (https://www.google.com/search?q=spacetime+is+doomed)
https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=124 (https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=124)
https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=962 (https://youtu.be/FeuwQHfXyzY?t=962)
I did only watch the Ted talk admittedly but I understood the gist I thought but he lacked the bridge between only consciousness and our perceived reality. In fairness he asked what if ... but its hard to understand how he plans to complete that link without faith. Math? Acceptance? Because if he can for want of a better word prove that everything is a construct of a ... blind? Misstrained? concuousness then surely it spreads to each of us as a cascade. If he can't its a theory which requires faith until tye cascade reaches people. Remember he did suggest a collective neural connection.
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I did only watch the Ted talk admittedly but I understood the gist I thought but he lacked the bridge between only consciousness and our perceived reality. In fairness he asked what if ... but its hard to understand how he plans to complete that link without faith. Math? Acceptance? Because if he can for want of a better word prove that everything is a construct of a ... blind? Misstrained? concuousness then surely it spreads to each of us as a cascade. If he can't its a theory which requires faith until tye cascade reaches people. Remember he did suggest a collective neural connection.
Hoffman has math equations to support his theory that evolution doesn't promote organisms that see the world as it is, but those that are tuned to "fitness payouts". His team developed those equations with top mathematicians and game theorists. In some interviews he shows those equations. They performed computer simulations to test them. The result was always that organisms tuned to seeing the truth die out.
And this is your "bridge" - the evolution gave us our own version of "perceived reality" a.k.a. spacetime so that we can survive. That's basically it. The purpose of evolution is not showing us the truth. We don't perceive much beyond what is required for survival, and things that we perceive are just like icons in a desktop interface, developed and distorted over millions of years of evolution. The same species shares the same interface, or headset, as he sometimes calls it. The relation of our "perceived reality" to the base reality is similar to the relationship between a Windows/Mac interface and things going on inside a computer on a molecular level. You would never be able to send an email if you had to deal with, or even understand, molecules inside a computer.
Bernardo Kastrup represents a slightly different flavor of idealism with his disassociation model, but for the most part they agree with one another. Thomas Campbell has also a similar theory. They all use different metaphors to express similar ideas. All very interesting.
There was a case of a boy who lived for years without a brain and somehow had his own personality, he smiled when he was happy, and had other facial expressions.
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/boy-born-without-a-brain-lives-to-be-12-years-old-dies-peacefully (https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/boy-born-without-a-brain-lives-to-be-12-years-old-dies-peacefully)
There is another guy in France who lost 90% of his brain and functions normally, he has some local government job. Therefore, consciousness cannot be a product of the brain. The brain is just an icon.
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Remember he did suggest a collective neural connection.
Compare the reality to the Internet, and Hoffman's "conscious agents" to computers/devices connected to the Internet.
As soon as you connect a new device to the Internet, it has (at least theoretically) access to the whole of Internet and can interact with other devices.
There are various types of devices: servers, desktops, phones, etc. performing various functions. Each new connected device didn't, and doesn't contain the Internet within itself, and yet it is able to navigate and function within the Internet according to its role. And on a fundamental level, the Internet is not really a thing in itself, it is just a network of connected devices following certain communication protocols. Moreover, the Internet is generated entirely by the connected devices themselves.
Maybe "conscious agents" are similar in that regard to devices connected to the Internet. But that is just a very simple metaphor, and the reality might be much, much more complex and weird.
Bernardo Kastrup would say something a little different, though - his model uses the mind disassociation metaphor.
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"Moreover, the Internet is generated entirely by the connected devices themselves"
And the people that use it. They too generate aspects of it either by connecting devices or depositing data into it. But until recently it wasn't adaptive. It was adapted. Now .. who the f knows.
He gave a couple of examples ... don't jump off a cliff etc ... evolutionary hacks but that isn't a hack. Thats communicated or learned. Fire hurts - learned. Train - learned.
I'd call it hardwired (hacks). There is a test they do on new borns where they drop them called the moro reflex I think. Drop them and their head should come forward I assume to protect the occipital skull area. But thinking back there are many, well hundreds built into us I guess. Fetal position etc.
Snakes again is learned and spiders taught but cats are hardwired to be fearful of snake like things. It's hard to explain that away with simple evolution and evolutionary vacuums.
What decides the fitness generally. The hacks. Which must be passed on genetically or in the falling off a cliff example I guess comes from ... seeing others falling and dying ... and adaptive behaviour allows us to learn and prevents a repeat which we pass on to others even though we haven't experienced it ourselves and don't know for sure. No witness required its just accepted as a known. Acceptable risk allows us to try anyway - fire example - yes it does hurt - pass it on. Follow the hack - survive. Don't learn/adapt don't survive. Poor decision gene not passed on.
I think I'm getting there.
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
I present metalenses 🤫 https://youtu.be/-W5Rp-mFEyY
Well youde be quite surprised at how far this has come 😊
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
-
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. :)
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. 8) Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
-
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. :)
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. 8) Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.
Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.
-
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. :)
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. 8) Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.
Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.
The point wasn't specific and especially not the Nimitz or over Washington DC. And I don't need to be a radar expert to see that, in any situation, no matter what the radar shows, it's claimed as some kind of proof that there's an unexplained space craft, connected to the phenomena, not just a radar anomaly or equipment error.
Or a temperature inversion? https://www.washingtonian.com/2023/02/13/dc-had-multiple-ufo-sightings-71-years-ago/#:~:text=Radar%20experts%20theorized%20that%20the%20culprit%20in%20DC,Some%20feared%20it%20was%20advanced%20aircraft%20from%20Russia. (https://www.washingtonian.com/2023/02/13/dc-had-multiple-ufo-sightings-71-years-ago/#:~:text=Radar%20experts%20theorized%20that%20the%20culprit%20in%20DC,Some%20feared%20it%20was%20advanced%20aircraft%20from%20Russia.)
"The next weekend, the odd radar blips were back—this time, air-traffic controllers counted a dozen. An Iowa newspaper would later blare: “Saucers Swarm Over Capital.”"
Some reports are over reaction or trying to create news.
Yes I understand repeatable is not for unidentified, but when someone can show a UFO photo is faked and how it was done, how about that kind of repeatable? Debunking like skepticism, gets a bad name, when it's really necessary and not evil. Just an honest search for the truth.
I know I've written this before, but if the truth is out there and someone is seriously studying and trying to find answers, how do you do that when the whole field of evidence is buried under fakes and fantasy, and there's no effort to say, throw out the frauds and creative writing, start looking at what isn't explained. Roswell is explained. The people who are interested in the truth should also be cleaning house and throwing out the trash that's in the way of potential, more interesting or real cases?
-
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12132183/Stanford-University-professor-claims-aliens-Earth-long-time-here.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12132183/Stanford-University-professor-claims-aliens-Earth-long-time-here.html)
Gary Nolan, a Stanford University professor who collaborated with the CIA, said that the probability of aliens being on Earth now is 100%, and people simply don't notice them.
He also said that there are experts working on "reverse engineering programs for downed UFOs" and progress in this field will lead to a technical revolution.
Dr. Harry Nolan spoke at a conference in Manhattan last week titled "The Pentagon, Extraterrestrial Intelligence and Crashed UFOs."
Nolan, an immunologist and Nobel Prize nominee, had previously been assigned by the CIA to investigate cases of the mysterious Havana syndrome affecting embassy staff around the world, and had conducted experiments analyzing material allegedly ejected from UFOs during flight.
Host Alex Clokus asked him to determine the level of probability of the idea that aliens were on our planet.
Nolan told Clocus that the probability is "100 percent" and claims that we've probably seen them before, but like the South American tribes first spotted by Spanish ships, we haven't seen anything special about them.
:) :D ;D ::)
-
I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. :)
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. 8) Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.
Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.
The point wasn't specific and especially not the Nimitz or over Washington DC. And I don't need to be a radar expert to see that, in any situation, no matter what the radar shows, it's claimed as some kind of proof that there's an unexplained space craft, connected to the phenomena, not just a radar anomaly or equipment error.
Or a temperature inversion? https://www.washingtonian.com/2023/02/13/dc-had-multiple-ufo-sightings-71-years-ago/#:~:text=Radar%20experts%20theorized%20that%20the%20culprit%20in%20DC,Some%20feared%20it%20was%20advanced%20aircraft%20from%20Russia. (https://www.washingtonian.com/2023/02/13/dc-had-multiple-ufo-sightings-71-years-ago/#:~:text=Radar%20experts%20theorized%20that%20the%20culprit%20in%20DC,Some%20feared%20it%20was%20advanced%20aircraft%20from%20Russia.)
"The next weekend, the odd radar blips were back—this time, air-traffic controllers counted a dozen. An Iowa newspaper would later blare: “Saucers Swarm Over Capital.”"
Some reports are over reaction or trying to create news.
Yes I understand repeatable is not for unidentified, but when someone can show a UFO photo is faked and how it was done, how about that kind of repeatable? Debunking like skepticism, gets a bad name, when it's really necessary and not evil. Just an honest search for the truth.
I know I've written this before, but if the truth is out there and someone is seriously studying and trying to find answers, how do you do that when the whole field of evidence is buried under fakes and fantasy, and there's no effort to say, throw out the frauds and creative writing, start looking at what isn't explained. Roswell is explained. The people who are interested in the truth should also be cleaning house and throwing out the trash that's in the way of potential, more interesting or real cases?
Unfortunately Peter this is where we are. Left with what people have decided is the only credible evidence which is that given by as credible witnesses as you. an get. Scientist aren't credible unfortunately because like any for hire group you don't see the BS you only see bought and paid for data. When it gets peer reviewed again the BS falls by the wayside but does so because of money or agendas. The guy that cured burns leaving no scarring or minimal scarring ... where is he now. Ridiculed to oblivion. Not before a very interesting documentary was made showing uts secrets. A particular root/potato I forget which ... disgustingly mixed by chewing with the saliva of the tribeswomen and and regurgitated and spat out onto the wound. Left and hey presto ... minimal scarring and faster healing. Why ... pffffff ... lunatic bye bye now. Its probably still out there.
Leaches still used today. But the septics would claim only by quacks. Unfortunately incorrect. Used by oral surgeons after mouth grafts following oral cancer to draw blood into the grafted tissue. I know cause I dated a nurse who worked in that field. grim or what and it made her puke dealing with those patients. She just know how they coped.
So with UFOs we are now left with apparently just the.military or professional pilots under the guise of air safety dangers to accumulate new data with modern technology built by and invented by scientists ro protect your very lives night and day. Or Joe public who is apparently as thick as pig sh£t and twice as runny and can't be trusted.
On the debunker forefront we have the Great Mick West 🤡
He has thoroughly debunked the 29 Palms UFO footage and photographs and declared case closed. Done. Its flares by the way. The large amount of witnesses who are military - irrelevant. The 30 ro 40 Humvs driving round the air base, helicopters searching ... jets ready to go chase it ... lume rounds fired at it and in the same footage side by side... just business as usual on a training base ... at 10 till 4 am ...
From his own site he clearly and precisely shows how in two very similar photos the 'craft' (flares) slowly sink down over a period of 19 seconds. Proving that the lights and triangle taken in low light mode on an iPhone are nothing more than flares drifting down over a 19 second period.
(https://www.metabunk.org/attachments/2023-05-25_08-56-59-jpg.59396/)
And this is lol ... jeeze what is this ... the very dross people jave to wade through.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12132183/Stanford-University-professor-claims-aliens-Earth-long-time-here.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12132183/Stanford-University-professor-claims-aliens-Earth-long-time-here.html)
Nolan told Clocus that the probability is "100 percent" and claims that we've probably seen them before, but like the South American tribes first spotted by Spanish ships, we haven't seen anything special about them.
:) :D ;D ::)
Unfortunately for you I listened to the recording of that very Q&A he gave about 30 minutes ago whilst walking the dog. You've misquoted him here.
"but like the South American tribes first spotted by Spanish ships, we haven't seen anything special about them"
he actually said
"but like the South American tribes first spotted by Spanish ships, they wouldnt have known what they were looking at."
This comes from an old theory that when the ships came into view they didn't see ships because they didn't have a frame of reference for a ship having never seen one previously. So when asked what did they see the theorist claimed perhaps they saw rings in the water or floating animals with strange spines and flappy skin. Whatever they witnessed it as collectively ... it wasn't a ship because they didn't have one as reference. Another debunkers BS to explain why UFOs aren't what we think they are ... we've just never seen a disk before or a triangle or a skeletal mumbling creature with a large head and black eyes. * we've all seen Biden. Think we're covered ...
Anyway ... misquoted. How unlucky I'd just listed to that too lol. doh
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Lowls, thanks for correcting me, my English is really bad. Therefore, they do not always understand me here.
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[...
Gary Nolan, a Stanford University professor who collaborated with the CIA, said that the probability of aliens being on Earth now is 100%
no scientist would say something is 100% unless they can offer solid, peer reviewed, replicated proof. where is his? or does he think building a wall will keep aliens out?
his qualifications as an immunologist are irrelevant (unless he's reading H G Wells War of the Worlds). and there is a tiny majority of biologists who still promote creationism
-
....Scientist aren't credible unfortunately because like any for hire group you don't see the BS you only see bought and paid for data. When it gets peer reviewed again the BS falls by the wayside but does so because of money or agendas. The guy that cured burns leaving no scarring or minimal scarring ... where is he now. Ridiculed to oblivion. Not before a very interesting documentary was made showing uts secrets. A particular root/potato I forget which ...
is that your idea of a peer review? and you dont trust scientists but trust those w/o credible evidence who profit from, books,faux-documentaries, etc??
Leaches still used today. But the septics would claim only by quacks. Unfortunately incorrect. Used by oral surgeons after mouth grafts following oral cancer to draw blood into the grafted tissue..
you're distorting the facts again -please show ONE 'skeptic' who says such use of leeches is quackery?
medical use of leeches has been found to be effective (also when re-attaching fingers) by careful, scientific, peer reviewed, controlled studies published in professional journals
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....Scientist aren't credible unfortunately because like any for hire group you don't see the BS you only see bought and paid for data. When it gets peer reviewed again the BS falls by the wayside but does so because of money or agendas. The guy that cured burns leaving no scarring or minimal scarring ... where is he now. Ridiculed to oblivion. Not before a very interesting documentary was made showing uts secrets. A particular root/potato I forget which ...
is that your idea of a peer review? and you dont trust scientists but trust those w/o credible evidence who profit from, books,faux-documentaries, etc??
Leaches still used today. But the septics would claim only by quacks. Unfortunately incorrect. Used by oral surgeons after mouth grafts following oral cancer to draw blood into the grafted tissue..
you're distorting the facts again -please show ONE 'skeptic' who says such use of leeches is quackery?
medical use of leeches has been found to be effective (also when re-attaching fingers) by careful, scientific, peer reviewed, controlled studies published in professional journals
Well he's a scientist and you are you are too aren't you. Although you wouldnt know it by your attitude and not for some time I think. When you provide answers to your claims made earlier in this thread and conveniently ignored I'll come back to you. I didn't specify a number of septics I just said septics. I only need to find one. I should be able to manage that. Now go get your evidence eh ...
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Lowls, thanks for correcting me, my English is really bad. Therefore, they do not always understand me here.
Your English is excellent. Not correcting you ... just being a bit more specific which changes the context. And that was from memory so ... not exactly word for word.
Edit: Specifically what he stated with regard to the first arrival of Spanish ships as they arrived "They didnt know what it was, they couldn't see it for what it was". Not far off.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12141359/NASAs-UFO-task-force-livestream-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-meeting-TOMORROW-Watch-here.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12141359/NASAs-UFO-task-force-livestream-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-meeting-TOMORROW-Watch-here.html)
NASA to hold historic public meeting about UFOs TOMORROW: Space agency to give first update of its study into unidentified craft in our skies AND oceans - and you can watch it live
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12141359/NASAs-UFO-task-force-livestream-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-meeting-TOMORROW-Watch-here.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12141359/NASAs-UFO-task-force-livestream-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-meeting-TOMORROW-Watch-here.html)
NASA to hold historic public meeting about UFOs TOMORROW: Space agency to give first update of its study into unidentified craft in our skies AND oceans - and you can watch it live
That's 4 hours of stuff there thank you. I started watching because it was steamed a few hours ago. Is it selling what it's pushing. No. No it is already confused itself and although slick they've already made morons of themselves. It's a panel of experts in their individual fields of science. Cool. This is what they state they'll be doing...
Right off the bat a few minutes in we have this gem
"The existing data from eye witness reports are often muddled and cannot provide conclusive evidence that supports UAP recognition and analysis (Short version - the past is the past and we won't be looking at anything previously reported no matter who it cane from)."
and ...
"Additionally an objects background can complicate the data further and render it unusable due to conventional objects that can mimic or overshadow the phenomena completely such as commercial air craft, military equipment, the weather and ionospheric phenomena like auroras. (Not leaving a lot left ro look at there folks because they don't come in a box)
*This lack of high quality data make it !!!!impossible!!!! to draw scientifc conclusions about UAP. (LOL so what are you doing. What is the point of this)
So basically this team are gathering to create a method for scientifically analysing and identifying only future UAP data as long as it doesn't involve any of the criteria that would make the data unusable. Has a background. Has a plane in it. Has military equipment in it or could be weather or rainbows and comes from the public because they're muddled.
So basically a huge waste of time.
There also said this team will not be pouring over grainy film images. Ok so no footage or photos, no eye witness reports no military or classified data because of restrictions only unclassified data that you collect which will become classified and never see the light of day lol.
Well 3 hours 45 minutes to go ...
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Try this, science with Peer Review. Oh wait, you already have your mind made up that real science is all bought and paid for or biased. While unsubstantiated rumors, conjecture and no review, everything gets in, is the real basis for UAP research.
Since submitting the papers for peer review, the Galileo Project’s international and cross-institutional team has been busy testing and calibrating the many sensors and tools developed for this unique astronomical effort. Having field-tested the equipment even through the extreme weather of a New England winter, the project is now looking to leverage what it learned in phase 1 and bring additional locations online across the United States. Galileo Project researchers are simultaneously preparing for an upcoming expedition to collect remnants of the first documented interstellar meteor, and developing software to analyze data recorded both by field instruments as well as by Earth-observing satellites.
All Galileo Project papers are freely available to the public with Open Access at the Journal of Astronomical Instrumentation’s website, https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/jai. (https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/jai.) A list of all published papers is available in the Publications section of the Galileo Project website, at https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/publications. (https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/publications.)
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/news/galileo-project-publishes-first-peer-reviewed-scientific-papers-jai (https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/news/galileo-project-publishes-first-peer-reviewed-scientific-papers-jai)
Unfortunately Peter this is where we are. Left with what people have decided is the only credible evidence which is that given by as credible witnesses as you. an get. Scientist aren't credible unfortunately because like any for hire group you don't see the BS you only see bought and paid for data. When it gets peer reviewed again the BS falls by the wayside but does so because of money or agendas.
Yeah leeches and potatoes. Except you ignore the other 98% that pure trash science or fraud and gets exposed. How about perpetual motion machines? Powering your car by adding a water inserted to your carburetor. Or aliens flying from outer space, just to look up our butts?
The reason that leeches are used now for some procedures, is they have been tested and proven to work. I can't say about burns and potatoes. Many old word medical advice is actually dangerous, people used to think that drinking mercury would cure them of diseases.
Claims have to be studied and proven. It's the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it's true, not the backwards denial that says "Prove it's not true"
Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
In fact there's more hard evidence that Santa Claus is real, based on belief and personal observations.
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Try this, science with Peer Review. Oh wait, you already have your mind made up that real science is all bought and paid for or biased. While unsubstantiated rumors, conjecture and no review, everything gets in, is the real basis for UAP research.
Since submitting the papers for peer review, the Galileo Project’s international and cross-institutional team has been busy testing and calibrating the many sensors and tools developed for this unique astronomical effort. Having field-tested the equipment even through the extreme weather of a New England winter, the project is now looking to leverage what it learned in phase 1 and bring additional locations online across the United States. Galileo Project researchers are simultaneously preparing for an upcoming expedition to collect remnants of the first documented interstellar meteor, and developing software to analyze data recorded both by field instruments as well as by Earth-observing satellites.
All Galileo Project papers are freely available to the public with Open Access at the Journal of Astronomical Instrumentation’s website, https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/jai. (https://www.worldscientific.com/worldscinet/jai.) A list of all published papers is available in the Publications section of the Galileo Project website, at https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/publications. (https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/publications.)
https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/news/galileo-project-publishes-first-peer-reviewed-scientific-papers-jai (https://projects.iq.harvard.edu/galileo/news/galileo-project-publishes-first-peer-reviewed-scientific-papers-jai)
Unfortunately Peter this is where we are. Left with what people have decided is the only credible evidence which is that given by as credible witnesses as you. an get. Scientist aren't credible unfortunately because like any for hire group you don't see the BS you only see bought and paid for data. When it gets peer reviewed again the BS falls by the wayside but does so because of money or agendas.
Yeah leeches and potatoes. Except you ignore the other 98% that pure trash science or fraud and gets exposed. How about perpetual motion machines? Powering your car by adding a water inserted to your carburetor. Or aliens flying from outer space, just to look up our butts?
The reason that leeches are used now for some procedures, is they have been tested and proven to work. I can't say about burns and potatoes. Many old word medical advice is actually dangerous, people used to think that drinking mercury would cure them of diseases.
Claims have to be studied and proven. It's the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it's true, not the backwards denial that says "Prove it's not true"
Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
In fact there's more hard evidence that Santa Claus is real, based on belief and personal observations.
Right. But as we were talking in the context of UAP that's where my comments were aimed. Not science generally. Scientists investigating UAP. This shower has already proved my point because theybalways turn to astronomy scientists to explain away something the size of a tanker 50 fee above a witness. For example Peter.
Mercury... totally works. Attacks the nervous system too and is cumulative . Totally works and still does Peter ...
For more than 3,000 years, mercury and its derivatives have been used as anti-parasitic drugs, anti-syphilis, antipruritic, antiseptics, anti-inflammatory drugs, diuretics, dental amalgams, and substitutes.
Chemo doesn't target Cancer cells it just targets cells. Hopefully by the time all the cells that are cancerous are dead you have enough to crawl off. What's your point.
You keep typing this:
Claims have to be studied and proven. It's the responsibility of the person making the claim to prove it's true, not the backwards denial that says "Prove it's not true"
and yet the muppets keep running from under the sink cupboard to scream and rant that it's all BS and endlessly throw out utterly unfounded authoritative statements that it's all fake.
Well OK Peter your claim is that its fake. Can we now finally have some proof 🤷. I'm not sure what scientific community you've experienced but because I said so isn't usually how it works is it lol.
p.s. Peter if you use anything from Mick Wests site I will be handing you your buttocks to hard, your grandkids will feel it ;D
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In fact there's more hard evidence that Santa Claus is real, based on belief and personal observations.
I'll just paraphrase a scene from a great movie:
"What is real? How do you define real? If you're talking about what you can feel, what you can smell, what you can taste and see, then "real" is just perceptions inside your consciousness.
You've been living in Plato's Cave, Pete. The world that you know is just shadows on the walls of your cave.
Welcome to the desert of the real."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRHq3d7Uuo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRHq3d7Uuo)
Now, there is some hard evidence that the universe is not locally real (or maybe rather not local and not real):
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-is-not-locally-real-and-the-physics-nobel-prize-winners-proved-it/)
https://medium.com/predict/nobel-prize-winning-scientists-findings-show-the-universe-isn-t-real-51cde7685600 (https://medium.com/predict/nobel-prize-winning-scientists-findings-show-the-universe-isn-t-real-51cde7685600)
And yet, the universe is part of our existence, isn't it?
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Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
I'm afraid that your, and for that matter, our (mainstream) understanding of the wider reality is much closer to "mostly rubbish" than to the truth. Just try to understand, for example, the implications of the double-slit experiment and it should destroy your assumptions about the reality and what is really going on.
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Yes it's difficult to be skeptical of extreme claims and as everyone reading this thread can see, it's futile to try to give reasonable solutions when the replies will be emotional and one sided. I understand that my being a skeptic is like attacking someones religion, it's their personal beliefs. Same with politics now. There's no way to argue logical and reasonable points, because the other people only see that they are being personally attack, and don't see that what I'm trying to point out is the facts are flawed. That is not personal, it's just about facts, data information, history and that nasty word... REALITY.
Just one:
Elemental and methylmercury are toxic to the central and peripheral nervous systems. The inhalation of mercury vapour can produce harmful effects on the nervous, digestive and immune systems, lungs and kidneys, and may be fatal. The inorganic salts of mercury are corrosive to the skin, eyes and gastrointestinal tract, and may induce kidney toxicity if ingested.
Neurological and behavioural disorders may be observed after inhalation, ingestion or dermal exposure of different mercury compounds. Symptoms include tremors, insomnia, memory loss, neuromuscular effects, headaches and cognitive and motor dysfunction. Mild, subclinical signs of central nervous system toxicity can be seen in workers exposed to an elemental mercury level in the air of 20 μg/m3 or more for several years. Kidney effects have been reported, ranging from increased protein in the urine to kidney failure.
https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/10/22/mercury-was-considered-a-cure-until-it-killed-you.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/10/22/mercury-was-considered-a-cure-until-it-killed-you.html)
Mercury is no longer used for dentistry, or quack cures. "It wasn’t until the mid-20th century that mercury compounds finally fell out of favour, thanks to a solid understanding that heavy metal toxicity was actually, you know, bad." :)
Ancient wisdom is more often wrong, than the few cases where someone verified and tested, scientifically and found that some tribal or folk belief that is actually quite useful and works.
Most home remedies or natural therapies, though, haven’t been put through the same rigorous clinical testing you expect from pharmaceutical medications. Some pharmaceutical medicines are synthetic versions of ancient herbs or plants that have been found to be effective. This is done by rigorous testing, not a friend of a friend who knows someone who says, some herbal remedy is good for your.
The best people to investigate unexplained phenomena, just like the best people to research medicine, are people who do research and keep records and used scientific method. Not people who spread rumors, myths and folk beliefs, because it's their personal belief. UFO and aliens believers have a personal agenda and inner motivation for their conclusions. Real science derives answers from investigation and research, not folk beliefs.
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Yes it's difficult to be skeptical of extreme claims and as everyone reading this thread can see, it's futile to try to give reasonable solutions when the replies will be emotional and one sided. I understand that my being a skeptic is like attacking someones religion, it's their personal beliefs. Same with politics now. There's no way to argue logical and reasonable points, because the other people only see that they are being personally attack, and don't see that what I'm trying to point out is the facts are flawed. That is not personal, it's just about facts, data information, history and that nasty word... REALITY.
Just one:
Elemental and methylmercury are toxic to the central and peripheral nervous systems. The inhalation of mercury vapour can produce harmful effects on the nervous, digestive and immune systems, lungs and kidneys, and may be fatal. The inorganic salts of mercury are corrosive to the skin, eyes and gastrointestinal tract, and may induce kidney toxicity if ingested.
Neurological and behavioural disorders may be observed after inhalation, ingestion or dermal exposure of different mercury compounds. Symptoms include tremors, insomnia, memory loss, neuromuscular effects, headaches and cognitive and motor dysfunction. Mild, subclinical signs of central nervous system toxicity can be seen in workers exposed to an elemental mercury level in the air of 20 μg/m3 or more for several years. Kidney effects have been reported, ranging from increased protein in the urine to kidney failure.
https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/10/22/mercury-was-considered-a-cure-until-it-killed-you.html (https://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2017/10/22/mercury-was-considered-a-cure-until-it-killed-you.html)
Mercury is no longer used for dentistry, or quack cures. "It wasn’t until the mid-20th century that mercury compounds finally fell out of favour, thanks to a solid understanding that heavy metal toxicity was actually, you know, bad." :)
Ancient wisdom is more often wrong, than the few cases where someone verified and tested, scientifically and found that some tribal or folk belief that is actually quite useful and works.
Most home remedies or natural therapies, though, haven’t been put through the same rigorous clinical testing you expect from pharmaceutical medications. Some pharmaceutical medicines are synthetic versions of ancient herbs or plants that have been found to be effective. This is done by rigorous testing, not a friend of a friend who knows someone who says, some herbal remedy is good for your.
The best people to investigate unexplained phenomena, just like the best people to research medicine, are people who do research and keep records and used scientific method. Not people who spread rumors, myths and folk beliefs, because it's their personal belief. UFO and aliens believers have a personal agenda and inner motivation for their conclusions. Real science derives answers from investigation and research, not folk beliefs.
So that's a no then we can't expect anything valid from you regarding your claim that its all fake.
I'm not sure who you are referring to when you state beinga skeptic is like attacking someone's religion. Skeptics aren't professional lol. They just are. They may have a profession. But disbelief in UFOs, whilst moronic, isn't offensive. What is offensive is typing a wall of conjecture without providing any proof.
I posted a wall of video taken by the military, analysed by their experts (who are more qualified than you on every level) to assess validity and this in turn led to your governmment creating ... ANOTHER task force. AARO ... The fourth iteration the first being Blue Book which was a hoax. I'm not sure what other evidence you need that UAP exist but I did ask you. You didn't answer that one either.
In fact the only closed minded people here are the skeptics who deny the validity of any authoritative source over their own opinion. Which doesn't effect me in any way. This thread was for uploading any footage that any may have taken.
It became your punching bag and you played tag with ya chum. It didn't matter to me. Discussion about the possible causes or origins of UAP is campfire off topic worthy particularly as ex high ranking members of the government and military have now taken the reigns. So yeah have at it.
What I would say is don't put emotions and opinions in my mouth. You don't know me, my motivation or my opinions at all. You do however know that I'm able to hold up examples. Unlike you who relies solely on slim pickings and generalisations.
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Oh and Peter ...
"Mercury is no longer used for dentistry, or quack cures. "It wasn’t until the mid-20th century that mercury compounds finally fell out of favour, thanks to a solid understanding that heavy metal toxicity was actually, you know, bad." :)"
from the FDA website ....
Dental amalgam is a dental filling material used to fill cavities caused by tooth decay.
Dental amalgam is a mixture of metals, consisting of liquid (elemental) mercury and a powdered alloy composed of silver, tin, and copper. Approximately half (50%) of dental amalgam is elemental mercury by weight. The chemical properties of elemental mercury allow it to react with and bind together the silver/copper/tin alloy particles to form an amalgam."
https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/dental-devices/dental-amalgam-fillings (https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/dental-devices/dental-amalgam-fillings)
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So that's a no then we can't expect anything valid from you regarding your claim that its all fake.
I'm not sure who you are referring to when you state beinga skeptic is like attacking someone's religion. Skeptics aren't professional lol. They just are. They may have a profession. But disbelief in UFOs, whilst moronic, isn't offensive. What is offensive is typing a wall of conjecture without providing any proof.
In fact the only closed minded people here are the skeptics who deny the validity of any authoritative source over their own opinion. Which doesn't effect me in any way. This thread was for uploading any footage that any may have taken.
It became your punching bag and you played tag with ya chum. It didn't matter to me. Discussion about the possible causes or origins of UAP is campfire off topic worthy particularly as ex high ranking members of the government and military have now taken the reigns. So yeah have at it.
What I would say is don't put emotions and opinions in my mouth. You don't know me, my motivation or my opinions at all. You do however know that I'm able to hold up examples. Unlike you who relies solely on slim pickings and generalisations.
You win, it's no use trying to be reasonable. Profession skeptics, who said that? Skeptics don't deny "any authoritative source over their own opinion" that's precisely how the believers validate their false claims and erroneous beliefs, with no facts or truth to support them. Denial belongs to the believers, evidence and facts are on the side of the skeptics. That's the ground floor truth.
UFO exist by definition, because they are unidentified. Same for UAP. But that doesn't mean the same means they are real, or aliens or ET or something else. Just Unidentified.
Slim picking and generalizations? :) How many UFOs are real and how many are explained and errors in observation. That's a tough question, I have the answer from history, bluebook and even the people who are supporting the aliens stories. How many are explained and how many are possible and how many are firmly = unexplained.
Who relies solely on slim pickings and generalisations? to use your own stab at people who doubt, because the want something beyond campfire stories, myths, exaggerations or outright lies? Slim Pickins? (love him in Dr. Strangelove. ;D
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Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
I'm afraid that your, and for that matter, our (mainstream) understanding of the wider reality is much closer to "mostly rubbish" than to the truth. Just try to understand, for example, the implications of the double-slit experiment and it should destroy your assumptions about the reality and what is really going on.
I'll have to find that experiment I haven't read or seen anything. Sounds interesting and I can't comment until I have more than a name of some experiment? I don't know what it's supposed to show or how it was run or who was behind it.
Do you mean the quantum eraser? I'll try to see what it's all about.
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Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
I'm afraid that your, and for that matter, our (mainstream) understanding of the wider reality is much closer to "mostly rubbish" than to the truth. Just try to understand, for example, the implications of the double-slit experiment and it should destroy your assumptions about the reality and what is really going on.
I'll have to find that experiment I haven't read or seen anything. Sounds interesting and I can't comment until I have more than a name of some experiment? I don't know what it's supposed to show or how it was run or who was behind it.
Do you mean the quantum eraser? I'll try to see what it's all about.
The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ)
In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
Quantum Eraser is even weirder than the normal double-slit experiment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs)
Some of the widely discussed implications of the double-slit experiment are the Multiverse Theory and Schrödinger's cat, which, theoretically, is both dead and alive at the same time.
But the double-slit experiment is only the beginning. Watch the videos with Professor Donald Hoffman and they will make you question the nature of reality. And yes, he does provide solid mathematical and experimental evidence for his theory and he is a respected scientist at a well-known university.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYp5XuGYqqY)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=reYdQYZ9Rj4)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRHq3d7Uuo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RIRHq3d7Uuo)
Space-time is not fundamental, it is just a "useful fiction", an interface, a VR headset, according to Hoffman. Whatever REALITY is, it is not what you thought it was. What you considered to be the REALITY is just a fiction in the grand scheme of things. You cannot trust your senses at all to understand the reality. Interstellar travel becomes a completely different subject, once you realize that space-time is not fundamental - and Hoffman sometimes mentions it in his interviews. And some top physicists, like Nima Arkani-Hamed, indeed already go beyond space-time with their theories.
And for what it's worth, idealism has no issues with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. It is only problematic within the materialist paradigm.
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Faeries, ghosts, elves, and the like. Imaginary monsters, exobiology, mostly rubbish.
I'm afraid that your, and for that matter, our (mainstream) understanding of the wider reality is much closer to "mostly rubbish" than to the truth. Just try to understand, for example, the implications of the double-slit experiment and it should destroy your assumptions about the reality and what is really going on.
I'll have to find that experiment I haven't read or seen anything. Sounds interesting and I can't comment until I have more than a name of some experiment? I don't know what it's supposed to show or how it was run or who was behind it.
Do you mean the quantum eraser? I'll try to see what it's all about.
I'll save you the effort of trusting ... its a well known proven observable experiment that has no explanation. You can trust that it does it. No one has managed to explain why it does it. The basics are as explained - merely witnessing the experiment changes the outcome. Even if you try and trick it. If it is witnessed by even a detector- the outcome goes one way. When it isnt witnessed/observed/recorded it goes another.
What it means is that particles when witnessed/observed/recorded behave in a certain way and only in that way. Which means observation influences the world around us to behave differently. 🤔
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author=Uncle Pete link=topic=37704.msg587567#msg587567 date=1685745069]
Slim picking and generalizations? :) How many UFOs are real and how many are explained and errors in observation. That's a tough question, I have the answer from history, bluebook and even the people who are supporting the aliens stories. How many are explained and how many are possible and how many are firmly = unexplained.
Unfortunately you don't have the answer from history Peter that is a falsehood yet again. At this point it is just wilful and deliberate on your part. I can debate with a skeptic but you cannot debate lies.
You hold up bluebook (created by the military) which discarded almost all UFO reports as rubbish and yet refuse ro accept military acknowledgment and testimony.
Bluebook was itself a deliberate work of fiction. The scientific head of bluebook himself has historically rubbished it.
Don't take it from me. Take it from him -
https://youtu.be/6YYkjYAxT44
Dr J Allen Hynek. Scientific advisor to the government across various projects from 1947 to 1969. Astronomer and Astrophysicist.
Hynek acted as scientific advisor to UFO studies undertaken by the U.S. Air Force under three projects:
Project Sign (1947–1949)
Project Grudge (1949–1951)
Project Blue Book (1952–1969)
For any one else the description of that video contains a tonne of links digging far deeper into the phenomena and its implications.
Currently the US government are again, under project AARO, invetigating UAP. The preponderance of data and professional observers have caused a shift to try and identify what is going on. But already there is a serious problem.
Sean Kirpatrick who is heading up this investigation (don't worry he is high, high up) has delivered his first assembly. Using two teams of experts not named he has for a year been investigating. But already it has a whiff of the blue book farce cause severe backlash against Congress from all those military personnel involved. And this time, duty and orders aren't going to stop these witnesses from speaking out.
The deal from Congress
"You come foreward and tell us via the reporting system of any and all experiences. Who was involved. What happened. Where it was. When. Doesn't matter if you are the president now your report will be held in complete confidence. Any non disclosure agreement you were forced to sign is rendered invalid and unlawful. It is now your lawful duty to report what you saw. No matter who tells you otherwise. Anyone who is standing in the way of this investigation will be dealt with.
Very strong words. And as such Sean Kirpatricks AARO have had a deluge of reports. Around 600 are active and ongoing. In a year. They've processed and rubbished I think around 300.
How they do this.
Two teams. One is concentrating on any national security implications. If the details of the experience could be deemed a danger to national security. The other team looks at it another way more broadly. After a report is submitted both teams get a copy. Independently they assess the footage /account of witness/instrument data. Then each team submits its report. The reports are examined. If they agree it gets moved on for further study. If they disagree it gets re-examined to resolve the disagreement.
On the face of it a fair stab at it. But there is a serious failing. If they can't resolve the issue ... Kirkpatrick decides. One man.
Further their role isn't just recent UAP. It is past UAP. They are going to catalogue all the reports and curate them. This should be a good thing. But the danger is that when a small group have access to all data they could categorise unilaterally large swathes of data as not worthy. When that happens it gets filed in the dustbin. Never to be seen again. This has historically happened with any and all files from Rosswell. Allegedly. The files were removed and destroyed after it was deemed a weather balloon.
After one year Kirkpatrick delivered his report. It was actually tragic and laughable and missing significant data that is in the public domain and acknowledged as fact by the military. He declared that there were "No maritime UAP reports"
So how did he not have tic tac, gimble, go fast and others because we can get that stuff in seconds. That's all the footage there is allegedly. Hours of radar and cockpit instrument data also. 🤷 And people are pissed. Not the public. People in Congress are calling BS. Military personnel are calling BS. Kirkpatrick it is rumoured may be replaced.
And now for whatever reason NASA have waded in and created their own team. And Kirkpatrick has allowed one of their team to sit on his panel. Which is a what moment.
Further to this the military data have two tears. Stuff Congress can discuss with Kirkpatrick in the open hearings. And stuff they can't. So far 4 cases have been discussed openly for us ... out of 300 and Kirkpatricks teams have debunked 2 of those. The latest they explained away as sensor wobble and planes in flight at night.
I urge you to look at that video as he explains it 🤣. Jesus I don't know how anyone could claim that is planes. 3 dots on a screen moving in unison. what ... its just dots and clearly it looks fake. But planes apparently. But then I don't have the rest of the data his team had. Never the less he is apparently on very shakey ground.
Hopefully this won't be another Blue Book. Even those involved in it shun it. But it suits the septics. Lazy ... don't bother looking at the evidence surrounding it's creation. Willfully ignore the people involved and in charge of it rubbishing it.
The only explanation is that they are religious zealots or suffer some other delusion.
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Anyway just for fun here is what appears to be a crashed UFO surrounded by Russian soldiers on the edge of a woodland.
(https://i.huffpost.com/gen/1506427/thumbs/o-1969RUSSIAUFOCRASH-570.jpg?6)
The story regarding this photo is fascinating but it has been debunked of course. Movie, prank, CGI the stories are extensive I'll save you the time.
This has been around for quite a long time. Officially it has been stated that this was an exercise. Training soldiers in what needs to be done if a UFO crashes. Simple as that. It's also plausable. But the question that isn't asked is why. Why if they don't exist, does a military need to be trained. That is the single most important question. Exercises are designed for real events that may occur based on past events. Literally the only reason you practice. So this is interesting for that reason. If only there were more photos. Or footage ...
https://youtu.be/iKMwAsoMlZM
Now to muddy the waters further. This photo and footage are from 1969. Later in the 80s this footage and an acoumpaniying video were aired. The other footage was of an alien autopsy allegedly recovered from this woodland craft. Here is that footage. It isnt the usual one that was a hoax. This is extremely good and the detail is incredible. There is however a serious issue. When the cut is made on the abdomen take note of how the skin flap is moved. Anyone who has butchered meat will call BS on this. Connective tissue must be attached to bone and tagged to skin. It's essential for ribs and bone to function.
So it's your choice. Do you call BS on the body or do you explain that away as how tissue and bone interact in alien physiology when it spends extended periods in a weightless environment. Like cuttlefish. Up to you 😊
https://youtu.be/vQ0E8-f6rBU
There are also a few other things wrong with the claim the videos are connected. I'll leave those for now.
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...
The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ)
In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
...
And for what it's worth, idealism has no issues with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. It is only problematic within the materialist paradigm.
thanks for the detailed explanation. while the double-slit phenomenon was shown more than 50 years ago (as part of my quantum mechanics course, eg) , the questioning of reality is a fascinating discussion that's unfolding as we learn more about consciousness, free will, etc (or on a different level, invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics to 'prove' the need for a creator)
unfortunately, well documented effects on the quantum level are often erroneously extrapolated to the macro level - eg , to the claim that ANY scientific experiment must be distorted by the scientist observing it & therefore invalid.
but and while Schrodinger's quantum entanglement is often used to propose instantaneous travel over long distances, quantum entanglement has yielded results in the Newtonian world -- a layman's discussion appeared in Scientific American after the 2022 Nobel prize was awarded based on QE research .
but "The compulsion to interpret quantum physics concepts as prescriptions for physical reality derives from the unfortunate way we traditionally teach physics."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/)
and then there's the question of bird migration:
"When you next see a small songbird, pause for a moment to consider that it might recently have flown thousands of kilometers, navigating with great skill using a brain weighing no more than a gram. The fact that quantum spin dynamics may have played a crucial part in its journey only compounds the awe and wonder with which we should regard these extraordinary creatures."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/)
and
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/)
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...
The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ)
In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
...
And for what it's worth, idealism has no issues with the double-slit experiment or quantum entanglement. It is only problematic within the materialist paradigm.
thanks for the detailed explanation. while the double-slit phenomenon was shown more than 50 years ago (as part of my quantum mechanics course, eg) , the questioning of reality is a fascinating discussion that's unfolding as we learn more about consciousness, free will, etc (or on a different level, invoking the 2nd law of thermodynamics to 'prove' the need for a creator)
unfortunately, well documented effects on the quantum level are often erroneously extrapolated to the macro level - eg , to the claim that ANY scientific experiment must be distorted by the scientist observing it & therefore invalid.
but and while Schrodinger's quantum entanglement is often used to propose instantaneous travel over long distances, quantum entanglement has yielded results in the Newtonian world -- a layman's discussion appeared in Scientific American after the 2022 Nobel prize was awarded based on QE research .
but "The compulsion to interpret quantum physics concepts as prescriptions for physical reality derives from the unfortunate way we traditionally teach physics."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/quantum-entanglement-isnt-all-that-spooky-after-all1/)
and then there's the question of bird migration:
"When you next see a small songbird, pause for a moment to consider that it might recently have flown thousands of kilometers, navigating with great skill using a brain weighing no more than a gram. The fact that quantum spin dynamics may have played a crucial part in its journey only compounds the awe and wonder with which we should regard these extraordinary creatures."
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-migrating-birds-use-quantum-effects-to-navigate/)
and
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/ (https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/birds-quantum-entanglement/)
Do you genuinely believe in a creator 🤔
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Watch out lowls you know what happened to JFK and rfk and the Marilyn Monroe for knowing too much. Art Bell didn't end his show because of anything but the facts that he knew too much and they silenced him.
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. :)
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. 8) Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.
Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.
What are your qualifications as an air force pilot, the cameras used on navy jets or space travel. Just so I know you have the experience in context and education to know more about aliens and ufos and the secret government. Do you work for the CIA or FBI?
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I've never seen a UFO. Keep in mind that my cameras haven't either. My night timelapse cameras, usually one but sometimes two, have recorded nothing. There are people with 24/7 sky watching cameras looking for meteorites. There's a world network of those. No space ships. Astronomers around the world, watching day and night. No space ships.
They all use cloaking devices, so you cannot see them. The cloak is only dropped in the presence of a true believer.
If they show on radar but can't be seen, that's proof.
If they are visible but don't show on radar that's proof.
If you can see them and they are showing on radar that's proof.
And if they aren't there and weren't on the radar, it's because we don't believe in them... but they are still there.
All bases loaded. ;D
Ahhhh
A radar return is evidence that an object caused a return. What that object is is open for discussion. But I'm not an expert in radar. However very luckily the Nimizt case had been going for 3 weeks. Was part of a fleet performing sea trials. Even had a sub in the area. They had been monitoring the radar returns and had been recording these craft travelling at impossible speeds. In some cases 20,000 mph. But because sea trial windows are very tight you cannot just .. pause ... orders come from fleet and usually you are coordinating a lot of air space, other shipping, recording facilities, crew leave, crew training needs ro take place and you have experienced inspectorate teams performing instruction and all to train ready to enter a operational theatre. So windows are exact. It was one of the Captains officers who said look these things are now entering air space regularly and the pilots are seeing them in instruments, radar has them, there's been a few near misses so we have multiple ship radar returns of craft performing impossible maneuvers and aircraft instruments across a variety of aircraft systems seeing them also. All data is conclusive we must treat this as a air safety issue. If we have a crash and don't know what it is we will be in serious problems.
At this point David Fravor is detailed off along with another crew ro investigate. After his report further pilots also chased them down leading to the Tic Tak video. After which another crews pilots filmed Go Fast and Gimble videos. All with on oard instrument logging the same and ship radar systems tallying.
This wasn't supposed to be released to the public. But it was. By I believed the then head of governmnent UAP task force Luis Elizondo. He'd had enough of the BS and had access to a variety of data both instrumental and visual and crew reports. And on .... but it transpires that it was actually Christopher Karl Mellon, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence in the Clinton and George W. Bush administrations and later for Security and Information Operations.
But what I always love to ask Sceptics is this ... what would constitute enough proof for you. Because it will never be enough. So what is the point of you.
What would you consider proof that something wasn't a UFO or a mysterious event. Nothing explained is ever enough for you. :)
My point was not one specific event, but the system of logic that believers use, which they first believe, then make a weak attempt to discover the truth and then declare as a real sighting. In every case, the radar is the proof, no matter what the results. Impossible to fair conclusion based on variable truth.
A number of people have suggested that real science and research involves, repeatable or reproducible evidence. There is also a requirement that theories and suppositions, have statistical study and involve peer review. That doesn't mean that "peers" will agree and there isn't politics involved or some healthy skepticism, but unlike UFOs and conspiracies, there's nearly no requirement of proof or evidence, and reports are released and published, without anyone even reviewing what is claimed, before it's distributed to the shared networks of advocates.
In the end, and my point is, radar evidence is a rubber bag that can be stretched into any shape needed to include how radar proves that the sighting was alien space craft technology, because nothing known could have done that. Instead of looking at how various situations could be weather, or errors or some other phenomena.
And yes I'm skeptical and I inquire and look for solid facts and confirmed evidence. I'm proud of that. Being called a skeptic is an honor. 8) Looking for the truth involves questioning the accepted mythology.
Not me but I agree with some of the things you state. The repeatable crap is .. but I'll deal with that later.
So what's important here is your claim about radar readings.
Please explain more and also can you please give your qualifications in radar operation specifically of that used on the Nimitz so that the explanation is in context and your skepticism has a solid foundation. Thanks in advance.
What are your qualifications as an air force pilot, the cameras used on navy jets or space travel. Just so I know you have the experience in context and education to know more about aliens and ufos and the secret government. Do you work for the CIA or FBI?
1. Pilot - none
2.Cameras specified- none
3. CIA or FBI credentials- none
More than happy to answer.
Now ... appreciate the question ... but I'm wondering why. I'm not making the claims if that is why. I am repeating the information stated by the various military personnel involved and their superiors and those who's role it was to deal with the incidents mentioned regarding the military and equipment. I believe I have kept to within what a non involved/trained person could other than what is public record. And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.
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... And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.
as the Innocence project & many other studies have shown, eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable
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... And I have deferred to their knowledge. Because they are extremely credible witnesses, they were there.
as the Innocence project & many other studies have shown, eye witness testimony is notoriously unreliable
Totally agree. However we increase its accuracy if there are certain criteria.
1. Daylight.
2. Instrument co-oberation.
3. Multiple witnesses.
4. Repeated sightings.
5. Trained observers. This has a specific definition.
6. Witness has a lot to lose.
David Fravor was sent to investigate that craft by his superiors based on repeated radar and other sensor data over a prolonged time. He wasn't the only witness. He wasn't the only witness on that day. He wasn't the only witness in that group and he wasn't the only witness over a prolonged period of time.
It was on radar.
On film.
Visually sighted repeatedly my numerous trained observers with a lit to lose in credibility.
This is enough evidence to prove a craft of unknown origin was flying repeatedly with other craft over a prolonged period of time. It isnt a delusion to trust that data. It is incredibly disgusting to toss it aside. And no one here is qualified to call those officers out. no one. Unless they were there and use that gear. Like the 17 million dollar jet they gave a delusional man.
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Breaking news and to be released this week in full. Ex senior inteligence officer blows whistle. Keep watch this week. Details here - https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM (https://youtu.be/rQjbFZT9_EM)
"cosmic watergate" ... "serious criminal acts in the name of national security" ... "Non Human Inteligence and vehicle retrieval" 😳
After hearing some of it, it does appear he has done so with the permission of the American Defence Department. So less a whistle blower and more a ... erm ... well a announcer?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/amp/ (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.newsnationnow.com/space/military-whistleblowe-us-ufo-retrieval-program/amp/)
https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/ (https://thedebrief.org/fact-check-q-a-with-debrief-co-founder-and-investigator-tim-mcmillan-part-1/)
The debrief published this article detailing the shocking claims. Grusch was was interview for 7 hours by Coultard with witnesses and this will be released shortly but the debrief article was offered to the NY TImes and Washington Times and they have pushed it aside over security concerns.
Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ (https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/)
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Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ (https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/)
former US intelligence official David Grasch, who left the Defense Department in April after a 14-year career, said the US government has complete and partially damaged vehicles of extraterrestrial origin in stock. According to him, this information is being hidden from the US Congress, but he passed this secret data to the US Parliament. After that, he came under pressure from US government officials.
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Debrief article here. At Gruschs request he wanted it desceminated in written articles first and then release the Ross Coultard interview in a few days ... https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/ (https://thedebrief.org/intelligence-officials-say-u-s-has-retrieved-non-human-craft/)
former US intelligence official David Grasch, who left the Defense Department in April after a 14-year career, said the US government has complete and partially damaged vehicles of extraterrestrial origin in stock. According to him, this information is being hidden from the US Congress, but he passed this secret data to the US Parliament. After that, he came under pressure from US government officials.
Yeah. So in the latter part of career he was tasked to work within or maybe in charge of the UAP investigative task force. If it was AATIP they were given 22 million dollars over 5 years to go through any and all UAP reports.
They were underfunded and understaffed. Yet they allegedly revealed "stuff that would blow your mind" but (as NASA have) they discovered that much of the data was gathered by classified processes and equipment. Which in turn classified the reports and any and all footage.
Now to put that I to context NASA - we are gonna science the cr@p out of this ... their budget for investigating UFOs is up to ... $100,000.00 ... no I didn't miss a zero. That's their budget for this. Unless they get given more. That's it
Chris Mellon at some point leaked the Go Fast, gimble and Tic Tac videos to force a conversation. This almost failed.
The tipping point I've discovered was the Chinese spy balloons. People were filming them from their back gardens but the DOD said they had no evidence they existed. So an investigation revealed that the DOD had lowered the sensitivity of their advanced radar systems. The Whitehouse intervened and the sensitivity was suddenly raised. The balloons appeared and several were shot down. That said only one was identified as a balloon. It had the equivalent of 3 buses in payload dangling beneath it. Another "balloon" was shot down over Alaska. Local trappers are being interviewed because they know all the tracks and all the locations and what's frozen and not. And none of them apparently saw any military coming to get a balloon.
But when they turned tye sensitivity of their radar up - suddenly these UAP began registering. On the Nimitz they had the same experience. They could detect them. So they recalibrate all their gear ro get rid of the anomalous readings. It had the opposite effect. They showed up more.
In April David left the government and filed a whistleblower report because as Chris Mellon discovered ... these reports are examined and classified as known or unknown. Mellon approached the AARO team and members of Congress and they hadn't even been given Tic Tack etc because when the file is created it gets passes around various departments that need to see it. Deliberately one department was failing to pass the files on. In some cases files that were created were still sat in this department from 10 years previously.
Grusch filed his whistleblower report but refused to give his findings to AARO and insisted that he meet with Congress personally because he alluded to the fact that he lacked confidence in AARO and their honesty. And he states that there has been a deliberate misinformation campaign to prevent any information of significance reaching Congress.
His report was examined and investigated for its validity by the Senate Inteligence Committee and House Committee and he gave testimony under oath in classified hearings lasting for over 11 hours to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Committee. After which they categorised his evidence as "Urgent and Credible"
Further more he isn't the only one. Because David Grusch has never witnessed a UFO or touched a UFO. So he went and found the reports. The photos. The footage. And he also found the programmes names of the alleged programmes that reverse engineer craft and the other programmes. And after him there are people within these programmes waiting to come foreward to give evidence themselves. And that isn't information coming from him. That's them speaking to someone else waiting to see if DG gets anywhere.
Whatever happens now it will only get bigger. From what I've heard from those reporting on it ... there is a mad rush to slow this down or stop it. But there are too many high ranking ex officials who know all the details and this is why he felt confident in coming right out. We'll see.
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https://youtu.be/1gCYSsvYQPY
Quick news bite of Ryan Graves a few hours ago. He has also given testimony under oath and was the first serving pilot to do so.
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I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
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I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
That is always the question Seth Showstak throws out there. All the universe and they choose here. I think you could look at it from several angles.
Survival. We may be less developed in every way but we may have unique physiology which has promising benefits for other races who's bodies suffer with various medical issues. Like we use slugs in make up or beetles in frosting. We could be a resource. Cattle. We could be a conservation project. 'They' could actually be us. Travelling foreward in time is easy and happens. Travelling back is the issue.
In time travel the old understanding was this:
Go back kill Hitler and save 13 million Jews. That figure was always a standard. However did he interact with certain organisations and people and create certain things that need to happen in order that as the changes take place and ripple foreward ... we don't make matters worse and more die.
The current thinking is we go back, kill Hitler and now we create two time lines. One without and the original continues on its path.
But what if the first theory was actually correct. Because 13 million Jews didn't die. 6 million did. Now this is passed off as history being examined very carefully and records being examined and and an extreme amount of work done to find the exact figure. But that was 8 million out. It is historically correct now allegedly.
But what if it isn't. What if it was 13 million. What if we have managed to unlock time travel. And because Hitler managed to interact so much and have so much influence on our world today he couldn't safely be killed. But a soldier who passed on orders could. And whilst history has almost happened in the same way, that soldiers death prevented a chemical order arriving in time and it saved 8 million. How much would you need to actually change to save 8 million. Go back, break a machine that makes chemicals. Kill a soldier who sent the orders. Kill a scientist that found a chemical compound that created the gas.
If this is true and we have then it would need to be tested extensively. So go back to the middle of nowhere and chop down a tree and watch that action ripple foreqard. Eventually you'll have to upscale your experiments. What better than to alter something subtle. Something already made up. A movie script. A story book. A poster or painting.
Once you do that you can write an article and give it a proper medical psychological name in psychology books. Call it the Mandela effect. And then monitor everyone's comments to observe how these changes are experienced.
Most won't have seen the film and won't remember the past script. Those that have swear he said a certain thing but the facts say otherwise. Even if you rememeber it for a fact going a certain way and you took a photo of a poster years ago and it's in your loft. You'll retrieve it and it too will change as the changes ripple foreward.
Our memories however are chemically stored and perhaps those chemicals are slow to react to the change in reality. So the memory is strong and then becomes faded, ethereal, and finally you just let it go and forget about it. Maybe some people's physiology can't change. It's locked in and nothing can change it. They suffer a mental sheer or episode or maybe develope dementia because their brains can't chemically change that memory. So they become scared and shout and fight ....
Maybe the aliens aren't here because we have anything they want. Maybe they are here because of what we've discovered.
Whatever the recent data would suggest they concentrate their attention around the military areas which makes sense but I believe is a false data set. The military are looking more with more gear so they see them more. Like a person who buys a make of car suddenly sees how many there are on the road. Nothing changed other than awareness.
We shall apparently fins out more on Sunday. Not sure of the time. They've created a wen address to view it which says it isn't watchable in Europe due to gdpr. But it'll be on utube hopefully.
For non Europe watch it here www.joinnn.com (http://www.joinnn.com)
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The Mandela Effect is an observed phenomenon in which a large segment of the population misremembers a significant event or shares a memory of an event that did not actually occur
Nelson Mandela, who this theory is named after, died in 2013. However, countless people distinctly remember him dying in prison in the 1980s. I do not personally but he was a passing event I barely remember. Maybe those closer to the event have a stronger or more solid memory which resist the ripple.
for example ...
"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore,” ... apparently incorrect. I can see her say it.
Sex in the City was factually Sex and the City.
Febreeze spray is actually and has always been febreze.
The monopoly man never had a monocle 🧐
Sketchers shoes didn't have a t. Skechers is has always been.
Kellogs Fruit Loops never existed and has always been Froot Loops.
Pikachu's tail ... is all yellow and doesn't have a black tip.
Cheese itz crackers was actually Cheese it. Makes sense?
Double Stuff Oreos .... nope ... double stuf. one f.
C3PO of star wars isn't gold. Most of him is but not his right leg from the knee down. Which is silver.
Cinderellas Castle in Disneyland. Afraid not. That's Disney world. The castle in Disneyland is sleeping beauties.
"Play it again Sam" in Casablanca ... is never uttered. The words are "Play it once, Sam. For old times' sake.". I personally can see Humphrey Bogart saying it. I can see him saying it angrily whilst holding a cigarette like a pencil. It wasn't even him saying it 😳. I'm not the only one.
Have a think where New Zealand is in relation to Australia. North East? North West. In fact South East. Its true.
Loads more out there.
Maybe they make a slight change over time. Like tye one between my mother and I last week.
People in the UK will remember Dime Bar ... as an insult by Harry Enfield. After the chocolate bar. In fact it's Daim Bar. They aren't called Dime Bars. Never have been.
Relax they were lol. They did change their name ro Daim Bar though. in ... 2005 😳😳😳 wtaf.
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I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
They want to help democratic countries in the war against evil.
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I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
What are human scientists doing in the jungles of the Amazon or in Antarctica? Exploring, observing and cataloging stuff.
I am not saying that extraterrestrial / inter-dimensional / extratemporal / ultraterrestrial entities are doing the same on Earth, but it is just one of possible motivations. Intelligent lifeforms probably tend to be curious. Or at least a certain percentage of them is very curious. Even cats are extremely curious of their surroundings and always want "to boldly go where no cat has gone before".
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The double-slit experiment is probably the most famous experiment in quantum physics. And maybe the most puzzling one in the history of mankind so far.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9tKncAdlHQ)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=txlCvCSefYQ)
In a nutshell, the act of observation/measurement of the experiment changes the result. Whatever can happen, does happen - the particle is in multiple places at the same time. Until you try to observe it. Before observation, particles have no defined properties. They are kind of "rendered" only when observed or measured. In other words, the reality is super-weird and super-crazy, until you try to observe what exactly is going on - then it immediately changes and behaves as our intuition would tell us.
There is really nothing all that mysterious about the double slit experiment.
According to the concept of wave–particle duality photons, electrons, protons and even atoms can behave in a way that we would describe as wave like and in ways that are more particle like. The heavier an entity is or the more energy it has, the more pronounced is the particle likeness and the less it behaves as a wave.
Therefor you can for example use electrons as a wave and can create electron microscopes.
You can also perform the double slit experiment with electrons or protons. It is a lot harder to do it with atoms, what is what the first of your videos talks about. The first time this succeeded was only in 1990. But in the end, it matters not, whether we use photons, electrons or atoms. The allegedly mysterious effect the video mentions turns up when performing so called "Which-way" experiments. If we modify the experiment in a way that we can tell, which of the slits a particle went through, the interference pattern vanishes (although it should be noted that there is still the interference pattern you get when a wave goes through a single slit, so the particles still show wave properties).
Now how can that be? The answer is really simple. In order to determine which slit a particle went through, you have to modify the experiment in a way that destroys the basis of the double slit experiment. In the experiment with the atoms in the video, using a detector to register all atoms that went through one slit, would consume the atoms and then the atoms (or part of the wave from one atom) going through the other slit have nothing to interfere with. The picture shown in the video where you can just detect an atom "flying by" without intefering with it is pure fantasy.
Most often, the "which way" experiment is probably conducted with photons. Then one possibility to find out through which slit a photon went is by polarizing them differently just before they enter the slits. Then the photons that go through one slit swing in a certain direction and the ones that went through the other swing in a 90 degree shifted direction. That way, you can tell, which photons went through which slit. However, the photons now swing in a 90 degree shitfted direction to each other and can no longer interfere with each other and the interference pattern vanished. Well, duh!
Some of the widely discussed implications of the double-slit experiment are the Multiverse Theory and Schrödinger's cat, which, theoretically, is both dead and alive at the same time.
Schrödinger's cat experiment is very often misunderstood. No physicist actually thinks that the cat in this thought experiment would be both dead and alive at any time. The cat experiment was a thought experiment proposed by Schrödinger in order to discredit the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics because he claimed that this interpretation would result in the cat being both dead and alive until the box with the cat is openend, which is obviously absurd. This is a misinterpretation of the Copenhagen interpretation, though. As soon as descision at the quantum level has macroscopic consequences, the wave function collapes and the cat is either dead or alive, but not both. Opening the box is just the equivalent to reading the result of an experiment from a display. It does not change the result of the experiment and the results are already determined.
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There is really nothing all that mysterious about the double slit experiment.
[...]
You can also perform the double slit experiment with electrons or protons. It is a lot harder to do it with atoms, what is what the first of your videos talks about. The first time this succeeded was only in 1990. But in the end, it matters not, whether we use photons, electrons or atoms. The allegedly mysterious effect the video mentions turns up when performing so called "Which-way" experiments. If we modify the experiment in a way that we can tell, which of the slits a particle went through, the interference pattern vanishes (although it should be noted that there is still the interference pattern you get when a wave goes through a single slit, so the particles still show wave properties).
Now how can that be? The answer is really simple. In order to determine which slit a particle went through, you have to modify the experiment in a way that destroys the basis of the double slit experiment. In the experiment with the atoms in the video, using a detector to register all atoms that went through one slit, would consume the atoms and then the atoms (or part of the wave from one atom) going through the other slit have nothing to interfere with. The picture shown in the video where you can just detect an atom "flying by" without intefering with it is pure fantasy.
This is complete nonsense. The wave function collapses even when the detector is placed behind the slit, and which-way detection takes place after the particles have already passed through the slits. Also in complex setups, such as delayed-choice quantum eraser. There is nothing to "physically influence" the behavior of the particles before the slits. The which-way information can be obtained either by measurement (detection) after the fact or by logical deduction based on events which happen after the particle has gone through the slits. It just doesn't matter how you obtain the information about which way the particle went - if you have got that information - no matter how you got it, then the wave function already collapsed, in the past.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22280/double-slit-experiment-even-weirder/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/science/a22280/double-slit-experiment-even-weirder/)
"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics." — Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Prize in Physics
If you really explain what is going on in the double-slit experiment, there is a Nobel Prize waiting.
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This is complete nonsense. The wave function collapses even when the detector is placed behind the slit, and which-way detection takes place after the particles have already passed through the slits.
The which-way detection can take place immediatley after the slit, but before the waves had a chance to interfere. After that it is too late to get the which-way information.
Also in complex setups, such as delayed-choice quantum eraser. There is nothing to "physically influence" the behavior of the particles before the slits. The which-way information can be obtained either by measurement (detection) after the fact or by logical deduction based on events which happen after the particle has gone through the slits. It just doesn't matter how you obtain the information about which way the particle went - if you have got that information - no matter how you got it, then the wave function already collapsed, in the past.
In the delayed-choice quantum eraser the which way information is obtained immediatley after the particles went through the slit. It is just evaluated later.
See also the video "The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser, Debunked" by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQv5CVELG3U (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQv5CVELG3U)
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See also the video "The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser, Debunked" by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder:
About Sabine Hossenfelder, and her "hidden variables" and "debunking":
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelders-bluf-called.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelders-bluf-called.html)
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelder-digs-herself-into.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelder-digs-herself-into.html)
https://www.essentiafoundation.org/the-fantasy-behind-sabine-hossenfelders-superdeterminism/reading/ (https://www.essentiafoundation.org/the-fantasy-behind-sabine-hossenfelders-superdeterminism/reading/)
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The which-way detection can take place immediatley after the slit, but before the waves had a chance to interfere. After that it is too late to get the which-way information.
What you are suggesting is that generations of quantum physicists, including Nobel Prize winners, simply didn't set up their experiments properly and didn't have a clue what they were doing. Possible, but extremely unlikely.
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See also the video "The Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser, Debunked" by physicist Sabine Hossenfelder:
About Sabine Hossenfelder, and her "hidden variables" and "debunking":
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelders-bluf-called.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelders-bluf-called.html)
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelder-digs-herself-into.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2022/02/sabine-hossenfelder-digs-herself-into.html)
https://www.essentiafoundation.org/the-fantasy-behind-sabine-hossenfelders-superdeterminism/reading/ (https://www.essentiafoundation.org/the-fantasy-behind-sabine-hossenfelders-superdeterminism/reading/)
Bernado Kastrup is a philosopher and not a physicist and therefor cannot to be expected to really understand quantum mechanics. In his rants about Sabine Hossenfelder he seems to concentrate on whether or not she falsely claimed to have defined some variables and not really on the physics behind it.
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The which-way detection can take place immediatley after the slit, but before the waves had a chance to interfere. After that it is too late to get the which-way information.
What you are suggesting is that generations of quantum physicists, including Nobel Prize winners, simply didn't set up their experiments properly and didn't have a clue what they were doing. Possible, but extremely unlikely.
This is not what I am suggesting. What I am saying is that some popular descriptions about what some of these experiments mean are very inaccurate and misleading.
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Bernado Kastrup is a philosopher and not a physicist and therefor cannot to be expected to really understand quantum mechanics.
For what it's worth, Bernardo Kastrup worked at CERN. He literally helped to build technology for the Large Hadron Collider. That was his first job. He built technology for the world's top physicists when he was fresh out of university. I would assume he knows a thing or two about quantum physics. At least, much more than a "regular" philosopher. He only turned to philosophy later in life.
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he seems to concentrate on whether or not she falsely claimed to have defined some variables and not really on the physics behind it.
"Hidden variables" are a materialist attempt to explain quantum phenomena by, basically, an appeal to magic. There is no proof for those hidden variables, nobody really knows what they are exactly supposed to be. If she had really defined them and had some evidence that would have been meaningful.
From Wikipedia:
"In physics, hidden-variable theories are proposals to provide explanations of quantum mechanical phenomena through the introduction of (possibly unobservable) hypothetical entities." - in other words: very close to an appeal to magic.
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David Grusch speaks exclusively on Newsnation
Time : 9pm Eastern Time Sunday 11th June
GMT : 2 am 12th June
Hour long interview followed by an hour long analysis.
www.joinnn.com (http://www.joinnn.com)
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David Grusch speaks exclusively on Newsnation
Time : 9pm Eastern Time Sunday 11th June
GMT : 2 am 12th June
Hour long interview followed by an hour long analysis.
[url=http://www.joinnn.com]www.joinnn.com[/url] ([url]http://www.joinnn.com[/url])
Claims and theories without proof.
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The Mandela Effect is an observed phenomenon in which a large segment of the population misremembers a significant event or shares a memory of an event that did not actually occur
Nelson Mandela, who this theory is named after, died in 2013. However, countless people distinctly remember him dying in prison in the 1980s. I do not personally but he was a passing event I barely remember. Maybe those closer to the event have a stronger or more solid memory which resist the ripple.
for example ...
"Toto, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore,” ... apparently incorrect. I can see her say it.
Sex in the City was factually Sex and the City.
Febreeze spray is actually and has always been febreze.
The monopoly man never had a monocle 🧐
Sketchers shoes didn't have a t. Skechers is has always been.
Kellogs Fruit Loops never existed and has always been Froot Loops.
Pikachu's tail ... is all yellow and doesn't have a black tip.
Cheese itz crackers was actually Cheese it. Makes sense?
Double Stuff Oreos .... nope ... double stuf. one f.
C3PO of star wars isn't gold. Most of him is but not his right leg from the knee down. Which is silver.
Cinderellas Castle in Disneyland. Afraid not. That's Disney world. The castle in Disneyland is sleeping beauties.
"Play it again Sam" in Casablanca ... is never uttered. The words are "Play it once, Sam. For old times' sake.". I personally can see Humphrey Bogart saying it. I can see him saying it angrily whilst holding a cigarette like a pencil. It wasn't even him saying it 😳. I'm not the only one.
Have a think where New Zealand is in relation to Australia. North East? North West. In fact South East. Its true.
Loads more out there.
Maybe they make a slight change over time. Like tye one between my mother and I last week.
People in the UK will remember Dime Bar ... as an insult by Harry Enfield. After the chocolate bar. In fact it's Daim Bar. They aren't called Dime Bars. Never have been.
Relax they were lol. They did change their name ro Daim Bar though. in ... 2005 😳😳😳 wtaf.
Roswell mystery gets repeated as a crashed UFO but it never happened that way, just a weather balloon? You left that one out.
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David Grusch speaks exclusively on Newsnation
Time : 9pm Eastern Time Sunday 11th June
GMT : 2 am 12th June
Hour long interview followed by an hour long analysis.
[url=http://www.joinnn.com]www.joinnn.com[/url] ([url]http://www.joinnn.com[/url])
Claims and theories without proof.
Proof given to Inteligence Inspector General who categorised it as credible and urgent.
You left that one out ::)
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Even cats are extremely curious of their surroundings and always want "to boldly go where no cat has gone before".
Mainly to find other life, hunt it and kill it! Let's hope any possible aliens don't have the same instincts as cats. I guess there have been a few movies made about something like that ...
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David Grusch speaks exclusively on Newsnation
Time : 9pm Eastern Time Sunday 11th June
GMT : 2 am 12th June
Hour long interview followed by an hour long analysis.
[url=http://www.joinnn.com]www.joinnn.com[/url] ([url]http://www.joinnn.com[/url])
You seem to have an unlimited amount of free time - I envy you that! I assume you must have access to some kind of alien technology that allows you to bend the space-time continuum ... meanwhile the rest of us poor saps have other things to do.
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Even cats are extremely curious of their surroundings and always want "to boldly go where no cat has gone before".
Mainly to find other life, hunt it and kill it! Let's hope any possible aliens don't have the same instincts as cats. I guess there have been a few movies made about something like that ...
Stephen Hawking stated the same thing. And recently Michio Kaku has said that while he believes life is unquestionably "out there", he doesn't think we should announce our presence so readily. Until we know what their purpose or intention is.
Assuming 'they' even register us in the same way we observe other life it doesn't make much sense to attack. If they exist, and if their technological abilities are as others have observed and suggest, conflict would be a counterproductive action.
The example of us being ants to another species and nothing but a curiosity is often given. But the recent experiences that many military and civilians have had is more reminiscent of them being like bees. Travelling from here to there and ocassionaly interacting for a few minutes before carrying on about their business. Much like a honey bee flies round us for a few seconds and then flies off. Only attacking if we become a perceived threat. Any crashed craft or occupants that we might recover aren't rescued like we might. Just left like a weak bee.
Grusch has alluded to this when he sates that the alleged craft they have are a result of mechanical failure, being shot down or apparently abandoned. That is much more in keeping with the behaviour of a hive. Or that it is a resource which means little financially.
We shall perhaps find out. One thing is conspicuous by its absence and that is Robert Bigelows opinion. There hasn't been one and that has its own implications.
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I don't think there are any UFOs on earth. All this media hype is done to distract people from earthly problems and crises.
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I don't think there are any UFOs on earth. All this media hype is done to distract people from earthly problems and crises.
This time it's quite a bit more than hype. Several things have been happening and this isn't being pushed by the media.
Grusch has wrong footed the media quite badly. He's also bypassed AARO which was odd considering he worked within its predecessor ATTIP. This week a few things have come to light.
When he stepped foreward this was the culmination of events that began in April/May.
Kean Couktard and one other were thrown into the story and had to run around assessing his credentials. Many of their long standing sources within the DOD stepped forward to reassure them and vouch for Grusch in the strongest terms.
After a few feelers were put out the New York Post were supportive but wanted much more time to do much more research into Grusch. Keane was put under pressure to move things along faster than the NYP were happy with so they fell by the wayside.
Newsnation stepped foreward and did their own research with their sources and concluded he was legitimate. Due to the nature of the information they laid on security for David and filmed the interview in a hanger. 7 hours of it over 2 sessions.
It appears that although ARRO were informed and given the documents and footage, reports and testimony, they refused to pass it to congress. They have given the reason that because the above are clearly so top-secret and shocking they are refusing because they are sure that if they do there will be significant breaches of top secret and above clearances. They don't want to risk it so they've told congress they can't have it.
This appears to be being pushed by senior elements in the DOD.
Grusch used congresses whistle blower amnesty on UAP reporting to bypass ARRO and subsequent legal issues but before he did he completed the security proformas which required him to state what he planned to make public. They allowed him to speak about what he has done because had they refused a refusal triggers congressional involvement as overseer.
Technically he's a spook. So he's used the system to win. But he's been backed up by the Inspector General of Inteligence who categorised his proof and testimony as credible and urgent after he spent 11 hours giving testimony to various intelligence panels.
Then yesturday NASA hurriedly came foreward to say that they have assessed that so far that they need access to as much data as possible that can be supplied ro them and that they will need specialised equipment and access to sensor equipment to be able to monitor UAP going foreward to be able to reach any future conclusions.
Various senators are coming foreward to state they want this investigated and there are also Senate hearings being scheduled to do this.
It looks like Gruschs claims and subsequent credibility support from within the inteligence top tier and from elsewhere have caused a bun fight for leadership of any organisation that arises from this going foreward. It seems obvious that AARO are being sidelined by the senate for some reason.
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I don't think there are any UFOs on earth. All this media hype is done to distract people from earthly problems and crises.
This time it's quite a bit more than hype. Several things have been happening and this isn't being pushed by the media.
So, we can say one thing for sure, a UFO appeared on the territory of the United States. And this is good news, because. secret technologies fell into the hands of the Pentagon. It would be much worse if a UFO was found on the territory of Russia or China.
I'm also interested in weapons. What do humanoids have there - blasters, laser guns or something else abruptly. Aliens will strengthen the US army! 8)
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I don't think there are any UFOs on earth. All this media hype is done to distract people from earthly problems and crises.
This time it's quite a bit more than hype. Several things have been happening and this isn't being pushed by the media.
So, we can say one thing for sure, a UFO appeared on the territory of the United States. And this is good news, because. secret technologies fell into the hands of the Pentagon. It would be much worse if a UFO was found on the territory of Russia or China.
I'm also interested in weapons. What do humanoids have there - blasters, laser guns or something else abruptly. Aliens will strengthen the US army! 8)
Well having just read an updated timeline, mine above is rough in places and wrong in others but the conclusion appears correct. It seems that sources are falling over them selves to get the story out. It seems very orchestrated to force hands.
This is allegedly what sources have leaked and David is going to be more specific about. In bold is direct cut and paste from Michael Shellenbergers birdie noise feed where he has collated the various statements as well as information from various sources. There are other places to get this from but he's put it together in fair chunks.
"The Pentagon says there's no credible evidence of alien spacecraft, but several military and intelligence contractors with inside information say there is. What's more, these insiders say, U.S. military and intelligence agencies are refusing to provide the evidence to Congress.
Military and intelligence agencies are withholding evidence from Congress, sources say
In April, the director of the Pentagon’s new program for studying UFOs said he had seen no evidence of alien… Show more
But while Grusch has not shared written evidence in an unclassified way, he did provide classified intelligence reports, emails, and other documents to Thomas A. Monheim, the Intelligence Community Inspector General, as the law allows.
As for photographs, the Defense Department prohibited Grusch from sharing any, as the letter from the DoD below shows.
And now, multiple sources close to the matter have come forward to tell Public that Grusch’s core claims are accurate. The individuals are all either high-ranking intelligence officials, former intelligence officials, or individuals who we could verify were involved in U.S. government UAP efforts for three or more decades each. Two of them have testified, including as recently as last year, to both AARO and Congress.
The individuals said they had seen or been presented with “credible” and “verifiable” evidence that the U.S. government, and U.S. military contractors, possess at least 12 or more alien space crafts, some of which they shared with AARO, which AARO has refused to provide to Congress. The reason AARO “has not discovered any verifiable information,” they said, is because it does have the authority to verify it and may not want to verify it.
The sources all expressed anger and frustration at the Pentagon’s denial of the existence of nonhuman craft and materials. “The denials coming out of Susan Gough and the Pentagon are specifically chosen to use AARO as the source of information when Grusch has already addressed that AARO didn’t have access. And so, of course, they didn’t discover anything.”
Said another individual, “The AARO response is typical because they are not doing any investigation of the testimony they’ve been given. Kirkpatrick has not been reporting properly to the congressional committees.”
Indeed, Grusch took a whistleblower complaint to the ICIG precisely because, he says, the military and intelligence community was withholding information from AARO and from Congress. It was only after becoming a whistleblower that Congress invited Grusch to give closed-door testimony in a secure information facility.
Karl Nell, a retired Army Colonel who worked with Grusch on the UAP Task Force, which preceded the creation of AARO, told The Debrief,” as is the indisputable realization that at least some of these technologies of unknown origin derive from non-human intelligence.”
Some of the same sources who shared information with Grusch, as well as others, spoke to Public about retrieved spacecraft that they say is in the possession of the U.S. government. “I know of at least 12-15 craft,” said one person, who said they shared the information with AARO and Congress. “Every five years, we get one or two recovered for one reason or another, from either a landing or that we catch, or they just crash.”
A different contractor said, “There were at least four morphologies, different structures. Six were in good shape; six were not in good shape. There were cases where the craft landed, and the occupants left the craft unoccupied. There have been high-level people, including generals, who have placed their hand on the craft, and I would have no reason to disbelieve them.”
One source described having seen three kinds of craft, including one shaped like a triangle and another that “looked like a chopped up helicopter, with the front bubble of a Huey helicopter, with the plastic windows, or more like a deep sea submarine, with a thick piece of glass bubble shaped, and where the tail rudder should have been, it was a black, egg-shaped pancake, and instead of landing gear it had upside-down rams horns that went from the top to the bottom and rested on the ends of the horns.”
The sources said they felt compelled to speak out publicly to validate Grusch’s claims but did not want their names used. “We have non-disclosure agreements or secrecy agreements that we are supposed to take to the grave,” said one person. Two of the three sources declined to answer certain questions, even off the record, out of concern for their safety and continued access to information.
“I briefed the Senate intelligence committee, the Senate Armed Services Committee, and ARRO, and so that information is out there,” the person said. “What Grusch did was the first giant step to get the information out.”
The sources said that the Pentagon and military contractors keep the nonhuman spacecraft in different locations, including Area 51 in Nevada, and that they move the craft around to different facilities, both military bases and contractor facilities, for research.
The sources differed on whether the U.S. was able to operate them. “As far as I know, we are not able to operate them,” said one person, who said they were last briefed on the crashed craft five years ago. “There are people who say we have reverse-engineered them and are flying them. I never found any support for that. And found a lot of support for saying we can’t figure it out. If we do, it would be in some program at a higher security level.”
Others said that the U.S. has been able to fly at least one of the retrieved craft. “Some of the tech is very cutting-edge,” said a source, “and they have to travel to places like Italy, Belgium, and Indonesia to do flight testing. It’s worldwide. Some of our allies know about the programs. The clandestine places that they work out of have grown larger.”
The sources said they suspected that the Chinese and Russians had also retrieved craft, but they did not know for certain.
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Lowls, was the military able to find or detain a living or dead alien or humanoid?
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Lowls, was the military able to find or detain a living or dead alien or humanoid?
Historically yes there have always been rumours and statements by witnesses. Their credibility is another matter. Some good some bad. The Roswell incident being the most spoken about.
There have been 4 ish autopsy videos leaked online.
1 is certainly fake. The second is possibly fake. I posted the third which is the most convincing earlier on in this thtrad but for me it has several issues.
The traditional Y cut for autopsy isn't used.
The skin flaps behave incorrectly using human tissue as a basis. But it does behave like dolphin and whale flesh.
The tissue isn't connected to the bones of what look like ribs. It should be. It would be in earthly mammals.
He uses pliers to deal with the ribs. This isn't the case usually. It's usually heavy duty loppers or cutting tools.
Nitrol gloves. These exist but I'm not sure they did in the date claimed for the video. I'd say for certain they didn't but I need to do more checking.
The scalpel used os extremely unusual. I cant find it as an antique or modern type. But Google can be tenuous.
When he explores the abdominal cavity he brushes a small worm like structure out of the way. He brushed it back to the small intestine area (using human biology). But that would be one long piece there shouldn't be stringy bits. In a human it couldn't get to where he brushed it from because the abdominal and diaphragm muscle is in the way.
These are small things really. He does operate the tools correctly and he does one interesting quirky thing. He uses a probe to lever things out of the way to remove an organ. Looks like an human gall bladder but some have said in.the comments it's a heart. Well if it follows oceanic biology it could be one of several. no idea. But the way henused that probe was correct. Its a subtle action but unless you'd seen it before you wouldn't miss it if he didn't do it. It's an unnecessary action for a fake film so unless you do it professionally and he did it without thinking. I only caught it because I thought he was using a digital thermometer ro gauge temperature of a liver like organ which is how we assess time of death. But then I realised they didn't have them then if the film age uis correct which I doubt.
The forth was on a small skeleton in a private collection. There is a whole documentary on that.
There is the alien that was killed by some Mexicans. Set on fire and tortured. That's online with I believe photos. It's been a while.
Famously we have:
https://youtu.be/xpRleGX2Gxg I think fake but pffff lol who knows these days.
Years ago there was a survivor of Roswell that was leaked. They held it at some secret base and gave it a nick name. It's been years so I can't remember what they called it. It was an acronym like ALF or CHAD. Anyway they allegedly had that alive for years.
Then there is the undertakers son from Roswell. His testimony is the most compelling and is still online. Not sure of this was Stanon Freidmans interview with him. Anyway this isntthe only witnesses testimony out there. It's the only one regarding the Roswell bodies left I think. There used to be one from the USAF who accounpanied the bodies to Right Patternson. He couldn't resist looking in the crate. Favid Grusch is gonna be much more specific and he alludes to Roswell but in the clips he oddly doesn't name it directly.
anyway - undertakers son. Enjoy.
https://youtu.be/_DA-g94Ro1I
also I forgot James Fox has just done a film regarding an Alien downnin Brazil. You can hear him speak about it on Spotify on the Joe Rogan podcast series. He had heard about it previously but passed it off as fake. That was until Stepehen Speilberg suggested he look into that seriously. And Speilberg was friends with Blue Book scientific advisor Allen Hynek. So when SS suggested he look into that he did. Quite interesting.
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For all the sightings and different types of crafts and different types of aliens, they are already here in numbers. "There's like an 8-foot person beside it and another one is inside and it has big eyes and it's looking at us—and it's still there," They don't know how to fly good there are so many crashes. They are little green men or giants, or reptiles. One study says there are 36 different kinds of aliens visiting us. We are not alone we are a major destination if you accept any of the wild speculation.
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For all the sightings and different types of crafts and different types of aliens, they are already here in numbers. "There's like an 8-foot person beside it and another one is inside and it has big eyes and it's looking at us—and it's still there," They don't know how to fly good there are so many crashes. They are little green men or giants, or reptiles. One study says there are 36 different kinds of aliens visiting us. We are not alone we are a major destination if you accept any of the wild speculation.
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣
It's like ... its like, it's 8 foot tall ... maybe 9. I don't know could be 10. Theres one inside and theres one like beside it. 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Las Vegas May 2023. And all over the news now. Well a blue green light was seen on the policeman's body worn and another policeman saw it too with other witnesses along with them.
What did they see? Well it's a very lurid blue green. A friend took photos of us with a digital camera on a beach cookout. In every photo the flames are only electric blue. They weren't to the eye. Was very wierd but obviously something to do with the autoballance. So that colour may be wrong.
George Knapp has spoken to the people who called the police over the phone several times and arranged a visit to get statements and they are extremely keen to give them. And each time they go to their house to take those statements they won't answer the door. The yard the craft landed in has tyre marks in the gravel and after looking at I presume either drone footage or satellite you can see a pronounced circular depression over the tyre marks. Since then people have checked their ringbdoorbell footage. There is a large booming sound heard. So far it all point to meteor.
But there is that panicky 911 call about the large aliens inside and one outside the craft. After speaking on the phone and asked why they didn't grab their phone and film it. "We tried. But that thing locked eyes with me and I was frozen to the spot. I couldn't move"
They do have a security camera pointing over the yard because he has expensive diggers in there which they claim one of the aliens climbed onto and tried to operate. George has asked to get a copy of what it recorded. They claim for two minutes the camera blipped out.
Whether that is true or whether they were enjoying some herbal substances it's unlikely it will come to light. But thankfully there is always legitimate footage we can rely on.
https://youtu.be/tryzoCgH7bo from 15 years ago although it's been re-imagined half way through the first part is what originally went online.
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...
After a few feelers were put out the New York Post were supportive but wanted much more time to do much more research into Grusch. Keane was put under pressure to move things along faster than the NYP were happy with so they fell by the wayside.
...
for those who may not be aware - NY Post isd a tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch
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If alien technology allows travel over light years of space and exhibits 'impossible' moves in our atmosphere, why are there so many crashes?
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If alien technology allows travel over light years of space and exhibits 'impossible' moves in our atmosphere, why are there so many crashes?
'So many crashes' requires a beginning known. If 5 a year are visiting then is it a lot of crashes.
The latest claim is the US government have 12-15
Bob Lazar claimed to have seen 8 back in the 80s
Is that a lot if as the reports from the USS Omaha incident claim there were roughly 14 craft circling the ship filmed on radar but crew saw many more. This video was leaked 2 years ago and was filmed in 2019
https://youtu.be/ZKyP79v9e84
In 1886 the first car patent was applied for, for a gas powered vehicle. 137 years later tow trucks still exist.
Planes still crash. Ships sink. Metal snaps and plastic shatters. How is this possible.
Technology improves rapidly. But parts wear out. Precisely the argument you give against, implies the cause. Extreme capabilites causing extreme forces and loads on perhaps new technologies to the user.
We drive around in self driving cars that store electricity. We make them sleek, efficient, affordable. But it isnt safe. Yet we still use and allow them. And when these battery catch fire they do so spectacularly. And can re-ignite days and weeks later.
So are there that many crashes? To answer that we wouod need to know the amount here or visiting here.
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If alien technology allows travel over light years of space and exhibits 'impossible' moves in our atmosphere, why are there so many crashes?
If the interdimensional hypothesis is true, or the visitors come from another universe in the multiverse, some physical constants may be different here than in their universe / reality. If that's the case, even very advanced craft will have a bumpy ride.
A Porsche, or a Ferrari are pretty advanced too and they were designed for roads, and yet they do crash on roads, right?
There are also hypotheses that some of the crashes are intentional, to give humans technology and influence the Earth's development, without that influence being widely known. The intentions may be benevolent or malevolent, and there may be various factions involved. If they have mastered time travel, stuff might get bats#it crazy... You could even imagine some humans from a distant future trying to manipulate the timeline or create a new one.
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The time travel hypothesis was discussed in an off camera meeting between Cdr David Fravour and Bob Lazar. As more rime goes on Lazars ridiculed claims have slowly been substantiated one by one. Fravor requested a meeting and then got into postilation as to how they do what they do. And between them suggested that if they had a form of time travel then perhaps they aren't moving as fast as the impression seems.
David Fravors Tic Tac vanished into thin air. But shortly afterwards it was located on Radar some distance away. It had appeared at their exercise start point. Where they were conducting the air trials. It remained there stationary. It had also blocked on board sensors during the encounter.
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One study says there are 36 different kinds of aliens visiting us. We are not alone we are a major destination if you accept any of the wild speculation.
They're probably coming for the beaches. No wonder AirBnB is doing so well these days!
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If alien technology allows travel over light years of space and exhibits 'impossible' moves in our atmosphere, why are there so many crashes?
Obviously there are not enough interstellar repair facilities. A similar problem to the lack of EV charging stations in the US.
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There are also hypotheses that some of the crashes are intentional, to give humans technology and influence the Earth's development, without that influence being widely known.
They would never do that - it goes against the Prime Directive.
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Obviously there are not enough interstellar repair facilities. A similar problem to the lack of EV charging stations in the US.
Yes. Unfortunately Utopia Planitia is not yet in operation.
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Bernado Kastrup is a philosopher and not a physicist and therefor cannot to be expected to really understand quantum mechanics.
For what it's worth, Bernardo Kastrup worked at CERN. He literally helped to build technology for the Large Hadron Collider. That was his first job. He built technology for the world's top physicists when he was fresh out of university. I would assume he knows a thing or two about quantum physics. At least, much more than a "regular" philosopher. He only turned to philosophy later in life.
He seems to have worked as a kind of technician there. This does not necessarily mean that he has a deeper understanding of the physics involved.
Regarding quantum mechanics, it is possibly that he thinks that he understands it, however, that would mean that he does not understand it, as someone recently made me aware of:
"If you think you understand quantum mechanics, you don’t understand quantum mechanics." — Richard P. Feynman, Nobel Prize in Physics
And if he does not think he understands quantum mechanics, then that would raise the questions why he feels he can argue about them with a physicist who has worked in the area.
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And if he does not think he understands quantum mechanics, then that would raise the questions why he feels he can argue about them with a physicist who has worked in the area.
That physicist resorted to a lie to save her face in the debate... A paradigm shift can be painful.
As a matter of fact, your statement that there is nothing "mysterious" about quantum physics is much closer to B. Kastrup's views than to those of S. Hossenfelder. It is materialists like S. Hossenfelder who pull out some mysterious "hidden variables" out of a hat to rescue their paradigm. "Hidden variables" are an appeal to magic. Zero proof, no idea what exactly they are supposed to be.
According to materialism, matter is fundamental. And yet, the building blocks of matter before observation / measurement / interaction have no "substance" and no properties. They are just some probability wave, whatever it means, and are "rendered" only "on demand". Similar to objects in computer games that are not rendered unless there is a need.
Idealism has no problem with quantum physics whatsoever. B. Kastrup is the Executive Director of Essentia Foundation. I counted 12 physicists (including quantum physicists) among their contributing authors:
https://www.essentiafoundation.org/authors/ (https://www.essentiafoundation.org/authors/)
The views of the contributing authors (including quantum physicists) are broadly compatible with those of Bernardo Kastrup. The aim of the foundation is "communicating, in an accurate yet accessible way, the latest analytic and scientific indications that metaphysical materialism is fundamentally flawed".
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There is also a physicist who has somewhat similar views as B. Kastrup, and the name of his theory is actually similar to your username :) But TOE stands there for "theory of everything".
https://www.my-big-toe.com (https://www.my-big-toe.com)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofqgV0XIlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofqgV0XIlQ)
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There are also hypotheses that some of the crashes are intentional, to give humans technology and influence the Earth's development, without that influence being widely known.
They would never do that - it goes against the Prime Directive.
of course the PD isn't mandatory, so it's wise to consider the Dark Forest theory
excellent Hugo award winning sci-fi trilogy https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Boxed-Set-Remembrance/ (https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Boxed-Set-Remembrance/) explores that situation after earth is discovered by a malevolent society. an adaptation by netflix is due out later this year
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So, we can say one thing for sure, a UFO appeared on the territory of the United States. And this is good news, because. secret technologies fell into the hands of the Pentagon. It would be much worse if a UFO was found on the territory of Russia or China.
I'm also interested in weapons. What do humanoids have there - blasters, laser guns or something else abruptly. Aliens will strengthen the US army! 8)
agreed there are UFO, but you're assuming UFO means alien - a much more likely possibility is that they're actually of Russian or Chinese origin. you're also assuming alien UFO, if such exist, are purposely flying over and crashing in only US airspace and that China & Russia --more secretive than the US & with fewer leaks -- have not had their share of 'encounters'
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And yet, the building blocks of matter before observation / measurement / interaction have no "substance" and no properties.
That is at best very misleading and at worst completely wrong.
We feel the consequences of the properties of the "buildings blocks" of matter, aka Protons, Neutrons and Electrons all the time.
For example they all subject to gravitation, so this is a property we feel all the time, unless we are astronauts currently in space.
Also all chemical properties of all the chemical compounds that make up our world are a consequence of of the properties of the single atoms and mostly there electron orbitals:
"In atomic theory and quantum mechanics, an atomic orbital (/ɒrbədl/) is a function describing the location and wave-like behavior of an electron in an atom.[1] This function can be used to calculate the probability of finding any electron of an atom in any specific region around the atom's nucleus. The term atomic orbital may also refer to the physical region or space where the electron can be calculated to be present, as predicted by the particular mathematical form of the orbital.[2]"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital)
So you can only make statistical statement about the electrons whereabout, as far as that question makes sense at all in quantum mechanics. This does not mean that they have no properties, though. Depending on the number of electrons in their hull, elements can be very aggressive or totally inert. Examples for aggreesive elements are chlorine or fluorine. They have an incomplete orbital that needs an extra electron in order to be more stable. So they take it from another elements hat has a surplus of eletrons like sodium.
There is also a physicist who has somewhat similar views as B. Kastrup, and the name of his theory is actually similar to your username :) But TOE stands there for "theory of everything".
https://www.my-big-toe.com (https://www.my-big-toe.com)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofqgV0XIlQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iofqgV0XIlQ)
Now that is indeed a funny coincidence.
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And yet, the building blocks of matter before observation / measurement / interaction have no "substance" and no properties.
That is at best very misleading and at worst completely wrong.
Oh, for crying out loud, let me quote a professor of quantum physics:
"It proves that measurement is everything. At the quantum level, reality does not exist if you are not looking at it," said Associate Professor Andrew Truscott from the ANU Research School of Physics and Engineering.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150527103110.htm (https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150527103110.htm)
https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/experiment-confirms-quantum-theory-weirdness (https://www.anu.edu.au/news/all-news/experiment-confirms-quantum-theory-weirdness)
We feel the consequences of the properties of the "buildings blocks" of matter, aka Protons, Neutrons and Electrons all the time.
For example they all subject to gravitation, so this is a property we feel all the time, unless we are astronauts currently in space.
For a large non-isolated system like the Earth, interactions with other systems prevent it from undergoing interference on a macroscopic scale.
When you write "feel" it sounds almost like idealism... Please watch the long interviews with Professor Donald Hoffman and Bernardo Kastrup where they talk about perceptions and qualia. They might interest you, even if you come from the opposite direction.
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There are also hypotheses that some of the crashes are intentional, to give humans technology and influence the Earth's development, without that influence being widely known.
They would never do that - it goes against the Prime Directive.
of course the PD isn't mandatory, so it's wise to consider the Dark Forest theory
excellent Hugo award winning sci-fi trilogy https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Boxed-Set-Remembrance/ (https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Boxed-Set-Remembrance/) explores that situation after earth is discovered by a malevolent society. an adaptation by netflix is due out later this year
I hadn't heard about those books - will have to check them out, thanks for the suggestion!
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mirrored https://www.youtube.com/live/jBeKzm9ntME?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/live/jBeKzm9ntME?feature=share)
from newsnation if you can't get it where you live
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If any did watch it ... the majority of it has already been shown.
There were several points that were hilarious.
David Grushs eyes. There is no f'ing around with this guy. forget what he said forget what he claims for a second. His eyes aren't full of doubt. They are full of "im putting you on notice and unless you do the right thing, I'm gonna bring it all down around your ears. He is a total boy scout. And he hung Kirkpatrick out to dry and then some. Which means that AARO is at present worthless and Sean Kirkpatrick is toast. He said I hope Sean does the right thing. And I don't think he meant give Congress the stuff he has refused to thus far.
He also hung a private contractor out to dry. Either Lockhead or another. I'm gonna go with Bigelow because he is always so vocal. He's been totally silent. Not a whiff.
Finally this was sold as an hour of David Grush and an hour of analysis with experts in their field. What we got was Mick West, Ross Coulthard and Michael Shellenberger.
Mick West - paraphrasing "I think he believes what he's been told but I think he is clearly mistaken even his lawyer has refused to represent him any longer because he states that his oart in this has been missrepresented"
Ross Coulthard - I'm afraid with respect Mick you have made an error there. His lawyer is still representing him as you'll discover in a few days and I am not permitted at this time to explain why that is but you're misunderstanding what is actually happening.
Because Mick West isn't an expert in anything at all. Except video game coding which is how he made his money. However he does get wheeled out as an expert in military operations, video analysis to name a few things lol. Until the comments start rolling in which are often brutal.
So instead of an hour of analysis whe got 7 minutes of mainly mick getting his expertise handed to him.
The interview was 7 hours long over two sessions. It will apparently see the light of day.
People that have and still work in crash retrievals and more are apprently waiting in the wings and are deciding what to do after they see what happens to Grush in the coming days and how he is treated.
Mick West will be on twitter ... his investigative platform where he gives detailed explanations of what isn't going on.
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So, we can say one thing for sure, a UFO appeared on the territory of the United States. And this is good news, because. secret technologies fell into the hands of the Pentagon. It would be much worse if a UFO was found on the territory of Russia or China.
I'm also interested in weapons. What do humanoids have there - blasters, laser guns or something else abruptly. Aliens will strengthen the US army! 8)
agreed there are UFO, but you're assuming UFO means alien - a much more likely possibility is that they're actually of Russian or Chinese origin. you're also assuming alien UFO, if such exist, are purposely flying over and crashing in only US airspace and that China & Russia --more secretive than the US & with fewer leaks -- have not had their share of 'encounters'
Are you saying that the Russians and the Chinese got their hands on alien ships too? It is a bad idea.
In any case, the Russians have no science, and even if they find a UFO, they will not understand anything about it.
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Full official Whistblower interview and apparently full discussion after
https://youtu.be/O_ceEJUnETo
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Thank you for sharing. I am really curious about this.
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If alien technology allows travel over light years of space and exhibits 'impossible' moves in our atmosphere, why are there so many crashes?
If the interdimensional hypothesis is true, or the visitors come from another universe in the multiverse, some physical constants may be different here than in their universe / reality. If that's the case, even very advanced craft will have a bumpy ride.
A Porsche, or a Ferrari are pretty advanced too and they were designed for roads, and yet they do crash on roads, right?
There are also hypotheses that some of the crashes are intentional, to give humans technology and influence the Earth's development, without that influence being widely known. The intentions may be benevolent or malevolent, and there may be various factions involved. If they have mastered time travel, stuff might get bats#it crazy... You could even imagine some humans from a distant future trying to manipulate the timeline or create a new one.
Other conceivable possibilities are basically what humans also do:
1. Human scientists watch animals use tools. Sometimes the scientists will suggest tools to the animals. Recently, I saw a video of a bird throwing pebbles into a bottle of water, to cause the water level to rise so that the bird could drink it. A smart bird.
A popular experiment is the so-called mirror test. It tests which species are able to recognize their reflection in the mirror.
Maybe the crashes are also some kind of experiment, testing what humans will do with such very advanced tools: perhaps whether the use will be positive or destructive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool_use_by_non-human_animals
2. Voyager 1 and Voyager 2 are space probes launched by NASA in 1977. They contain images and sounds of the Earth and scientific data on golden discs:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voyager_Golden_Record
Perhaps some of the crashes are simply probes or drones.
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And the next to give testimony that hasn't yet been passed on.
Michael Herrera. Ex marine who has remained silent for the last 14 years who on hearing of the congressional amnesty repealing NDAs stepped foreward to give his testimony.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/amp/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12177943/amp/Marine-vet-breaks-14-year-silence-make-astonishing-claim-six-man-unit-saw-UFO.html)
Will be giving open testimony as part of Greers disclosure project. Greer has a long and distinguished career in various high profile roles but latterly in my opinion sold out. He believes he can now summon UFos by following a procedure using lasers and meditation. He holds courses. Take that as you find it and I'll leave it but he has supported a significant amount of military and high ranking military to come foreward as part of the disclosure project to give formal testimony and sworn affidavits.
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I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
Maybe it's us coming back from the future to save us and our planet - to tell us to stop burning carbon, to learn how to live and let live, and to stop following leaders who incite anger, war, and division? ;)
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I have been following the discussion over on reddit. Now getting really curious about the coming news.
I am sure alien life and more moderrn techmology exists somewhere. But what would they be doing here?
Maybe it's us coming back from the future to save us and our planet - to tell us to stop burning carbon, to learn how to live and let live, and to stop following leaders who incite anger, war, and division? ;)
Assuming that time is linear, changing or influencing the past could create the so-called 'grandfather paradox', split the timeline or destroy the timeline from which they came :) Alternatively, there is the "many-worlds interpretation", where it all doesn't matter anyway, because everything happens.
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OK, it’s time to stop all this speculation and look objectively at the facts we already know. Once you do, it’s very clear that the aliens are here, have been living with us for decades at least and are planning for their coming takeover.
We can summarize the proof in two words (or one name): Elon Musk. How is it that one person can come up with so many technologically important companies – Tesla, Boring, Neuralink? Is that possible for a human being? You know it isn’t. With Tesla he can monitor where we are going and what we are doing, with Boring he can develop rapid underground transport so the aliens can get where they want undetected, and the purpose of Neuralink is to develop implants that can control human thought. Why would he do this? Hello??? Obviously to control human minds after the alien takeover! Musk is supposedly from South Africa, but has anyone seen his birth certificate? Has he provided a DNA sample to prove that he is human? I don’t think so - and you know the reason why! Musk is always saying that people need to have more kids, but by “people” he doesn’t mean you or me, instead that is a message to his species to produce more aliens for the coming takeover.
Have you ever wondered why Mark Zuckerberg looks (and acts) so much like a robot? Because that’s the way everybody looks on his planet! The character Data in Star Trek was obviously modeled after another member of Zuckerberg’s species. And what is up with Meta and the Metaverse? Most likely trying to recreate his original planet here on Earth.
What about Jeff Bezos? How could a normal human have quickly made a small company selling used books into a behemoth that moves 80% of all commerce on the planet? Alien technology or knowhow. Ever notice how his right eye always seems a little off compared to the left? That’s clearly because his alien body is having a hard time fitting inside its human shell.
What about Warren Buffett? It seems he got where he is through smarts and hard work – probably one of us.
The aliens also seem to have completely taken over one of the major political parties in the U.S. Does Donald Trump’s orange skin make you think something is a little off? Well that’s the normal color for beings from his planet!
What about Ron DeSantis’ complete lack of emotions and inability to understand and respond to typical human cultural norms? Those are not needed on his planet and apparently he skipped out on those lessons during the training sessions before his arrival.
Ever wonder why Mike Pence is constantly looking towards the heavens? He is waiting for a rescue ship to come and take him and Mother back to their home world! (I’m kind of looking forward to that, too)
Have you ever wondered why Mitch McConnell looks like some sort of mutant love child between a frog and a salamander? Is he an alien too? In his case I think not, unfortunately – he is just a poster child for what happens from too much inbreeding.
And then there’s good old Joe Biden – with an emphasis on old. How can he be so old and still run one of the most powerful countries in the world? It isn’t from taking his Geritol! There are paintings showing Biden out having beers with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson at the * Tavern in Virginia in the 1770s (* - the System won't let me put in the actual name). How can he be almost 300 years old but not look a day over 80? Maybe if he was a vampire, but we know those aren’t real, so the only remaining logical explanation is that he must be an alien!
And what is up with climate change? Most of the aliens came from hotter planets so they took over fossil fuel companies early and allowed us to develop technologies to burn fuel as fast as possible to quickly destroy our planet and make it more habitable for them! And they used us to do it so it doesn’t even look like alien influence was behind it!
We can also look at what our future alien overlords do with their money. Now if you were the richest person in the world, what would you do? Obviously you would buy a small Caribbean (or maybe Mediterranean or South Pacific) island or possibly an entire country, bring in an excellent medical staff and the most beautiful women from around the world (assuming you are male) and spend the rest of your days frolicking on the sand. Please don’t deny it, we all know it’s true! However, what have Bezos and Musk done? Started companies that build spaceships! SpaceX, Blue Origin – are you kidding me? That is certainly not normal human behavior and clearly was done so they can have transport back to their home worlds (or possibly to bring back their relatives - durn anchor babies). It also gives them cover in case they can repair one of the alien spacecraft held around the world – they can hail it as a new, homegrown invention!
As if all the above were not completely convincing, I can provide a further piece of evidence: domestic cats. Why do we spend our lives in servitude to creatures that provide nothing in return? How is it that cats were able to so quickly take over the internet? What made the ancient Egyptians worship them as gods? We are expected to feed them, give them excellent medical care, constantly refresh their water dishes, clean up after all their messes from barfing all over the place, let them out, and in, and out, and in, and out, and maybe in again, and scoop their poop several times a day, and what do they do for us? Maybe bring us a dead animal, or only half of one, if we’re lucky. And if we’re not fast enough bringing them their dinner? They will show their displeasure by peeing on your shirt! Ever have one stare at you? They never blink – clearly part of their alien mind-control techniques. Cats seem to have been brought here to train us to be more effective slaves for our alien leaders once they have fully taken over the planet, and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker!
People, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee - all of the above provides, clear, unambiguous, irrefutable proof that the aliens are here among us and are planning for our imminent demise! Resistance is futile - we will either be wiped out or reduced to servitude. So now you know the truth and we can stop all of these discussions! OK, I have to stop writing and go feed the cats or there will be pee to pay.
(Disclaimer: It is possible that I made up parts or maybe all of the above. Except for Mitch McConnell and the cats).
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OK, it’s time to stop all this speculation and look objectively at the facts we already know. Once you do, it’s very clear that the aliens are here, have been living with us for decades at least and are planning for their coming takeover.
We can summarize the proof in two words (or one name): Elon Musk. How is it that one person can come up with so many technologically important companies – Tesla, Boring, Neuralink? Is that possible for a human being? You know it isn’t. With Tesla he can monitor where we are going and what we are doing, with Boring he can develop rapid underground transport so the aliens can get where they want undetected, and the purpose of Neuralink is to develop implants that can control human thought. Why would he do this? Hello??? Obviously to control human minds after the alien takeover! Musk is supposedly from South Africa, but has anyone seen his birth certificate? Has he provided a DNA sample to prove that he is human? I don’t think so - and you know the reason why! Musk is always saying that people need to have more kids, but by “people” he doesn’t mean you or me, instead that is a message to his species to produce more aliens for the coming takeover.
Have you ever wondered why Mark Zuckerberg looks (and acts) so much like a robot? Because that’s the way everybody looks on his planet! The character Data in Star Trek was obviously modeled after another member of Zuckerberg’s species. And what is up with Meta and the Metaverse? Most likely trying to recreate his original planet here on Earth.
What about Jeff Bezos? How could a normal human have quickly made a small company selling used books into a behemoth that moves 80% of all commerce on the planet? Alien technology or knowhow. Ever notice how his right eye always seems a little off compared to the left? That’s clearly because his alien body is having a hard time fitting inside its human shell.
What about Warren Buffett? It seems he got where he is through smarts and hard work – probably one of us.
The aliens also seem to have completely taken over one of the major political parties in the U.S. Does Donald Trump’s orange skin make you think something is a little off? Well that’s the normal color for beings from his planet!
What about Ron DeSantis’ complete lack of emotions and inability to understand and respond to typical human cultural norms? Those are not needed on his planet and apparently he skipped out on those lessons during the training sessions before his arrival.
Ever wonder why Mike Pence is constantly looking towards the heavens? He is waiting for a rescue ship to come and take him and Mother back to their home world! (I’m kind of looking forward to that, too)
Have you ever wondered why Mitch McConnell looks like some sort of mutant love child between a frog and a salamander? Is he an alien too? In his case I think not, unfortunately – he is just a poster child for what happens from too much inbreeding.
And then there’s good old Joe Biden – with an emphasis on old. How can he be so old and still run one of the most powerful countries in the world? It isn’t from taking his Geritol! There are paintings showing Biden out having beers with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson at the * Tavern in Virginia in the 1770s (* - the System won't let me put in the actual name). How can he be almost 300 years old but not look a day over 80? Maybe if he was a vampire, but we know those aren’t real, so the only remaining logical explanation is that he must be an alien!
And what is up with climate change? Most of the aliens came from hotter planets so they took over fossil fuel companies early and allowed us to develop technologies to burn fuel as fast as possible to quickly destroy our planet and make it more habitable for them! And they used us to do it so it doesn’t even look like alien influence was behind it!
We can also look at what our future alien overlords do with their money. Now if you were the richest person in the world, what would you do? Obviously you would buy a small Caribbean (or maybe Mediterranean or South Pacific) island or possibly an entire country, bring in an excellent medical staff and the most beautiful women from around the world (assuming you are male) and spend the rest of your days frolicking on the sand. Please don’t deny it, we all know it’s true! However, what have Bezos and Musk done? Started companies that build spaceships! SpaceX, Blue Origin – are you kidding me? That is certainly not normal human behavior and clearly was done so they can have transport back to their home worlds (or possibly to bring back their relatives - durn anchor babies). It also gives them cover in case they can repair one of the alien spacecraft held around the world – they can hail it as a new, homegrown invention!
As if all the above were not completely convincing, I can provide a further piece of evidence: domestic cats. Why do we spend our lives in servitude to creatures that provide nothing in return? How is it that cats were able to so quickly take over the internet? What made the ancient Egyptians worship them as gods? We are expected to feed them, give them excellent medical care, constantly refresh their water dishes, clean up after all their messes from barfing all over the place, let them out, and in, and out, and in, and out, and maybe in again, and scoop their poop several times a day, and what do they do for us? Maybe bring us a dead animal, or only half of one, if we’re lucky. And if we’re not fast enough bringing them their dinner? They will show their displeasure by peeing on your shirt! Ever have one stare at you? They never blink – clearly part of their alien mind-control techniques. Cats seem to have been brought here to train us to be more effective slaves for our alien leaders once they have fully taken over the planet, and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker!
People, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee - all of the above provides, clear, unambiguous, irrefutable proof that the aliens are here among us and are planning for our imminent demise! Resistance is futile - we will either be wiped out or reduced to servitude. So now you know the truth and we can stop all of these discussions! OK, I have to stop writing and go feed the cats or there will be pee to pay.
(Disclaimer: It is possible that I made up parts or maybe all of the above. Except for Mitch McConnell and the cats).
That's exactly what an alien would say 👽😲👽😲
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A year prior to the public release by David Grush he approached Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp. This is what happened prior to Ross Coulthart and 'The Debrief' ... published as I type
https://youtu.be/dc6V0O_OPJ0
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https://www.weaponizedpodcast.com/episodes-1/episode-number-21 (https://www.weaponizedpodcast.com/episodes-1/episode-number-21)
Documents regarding David Grush. His whistleblower complaint can be found on this page.
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OK, it’s time to stop all this speculation and look objectively at the facts we already know. Once you do, it’s very clear that the aliens are here, have been living with us for decades at least and are planning for their coming takeover.
We can summarize the proof in two words (or one name): Elon Musk. How is it that one person can come up with so many technologically important companies – Tesla, Boring, Neuralink? Is that possible for a human being? You know it isn’t. With Tesla he can monitor where we are going and what we are doing, with Boring he can develop rapid underground transport so the aliens can get where they want undetected, and the purpose of Neuralink is to develop implants that can control human thought. Why would he do this? Hello??? Obviously to control human minds after the alien takeover! Musk is supposedly from South Africa, but has anyone seen his birth certificate? Has he provided a DNA sample to prove that he is human? I don’t think so - and you know the reason why! Musk is always saying that people need to have more kids, but by “people” he doesn’t mean you or me, instead that is a message to his species to produce more aliens for the coming takeover.
Have you ever wondered why Mark Zuckerberg looks (and acts) so much like a robot? Because that’s the way everybody looks on his planet! The character Data in Star Trek was obviously modeled after another member of Zuckerberg’s species. And what is up with Meta and the Metaverse? Most likely trying to recreate his original planet here on Earth.
What about Jeff Bezos? How could a normal human have quickly made a small company selling used books into a behemoth that moves 80% of all commerce on the planet? Alien technology or knowhow. Ever notice how his right eye always seems a little off compared to the left? That’s clearly because his alien body is having a hard time fitting inside its human shell.
What about Warren Buffett? It seems he got where he is through smarts and hard work – probably one of us.
The aliens also seem to have completely taken over one of the major political parties in the U.S. Does Donald Trump’s orange skin make you think something is a little off? Well that’s the normal color for beings from his planet!
What about Ron DeSantis’ complete lack of emotions and inability to understand and respond to typical human cultural norms? Those are not needed on his planet and apparently he skipped out on those lessons during the training sessions before his arrival.
Ever wonder why Mike Pence is constantly looking towards the heavens? He is waiting for a rescue ship to come and take him and Mother back to their home world! (I’m kind of looking forward to that, too)
Have you ever wondered why Mitch McConnell looks like some sort of mutant love child between a frog and a salamander? Is he an alien too? In his case I think not, unfortunately – he is just a poster child for what happens from too much inbreeding.
And then there’s good old Joe Biden – with an emphasis on old. How can he be so old and still run one of the most powerful countries in the world? It isn’t from taking his Geritol! There are paintings showing Biden out having beers with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson at the * Tavern in Virginia in the 1770s (* - the System won't let me put in the actual name). How can he be almost 300 years old but not look a day over 80? Maybe if he was a vampire, but we know those aren’t real, so the only remaining logical explanation is that he must be an alien!
And what is up with climate change? Most of the aliens came from hotter planets so they took over fossil fuel companies early and allowed us to develop technologies to burn fuel as fast as possible to quickly destroy our planet and make it more habitable for them! And they used us to do it so it doesn’t even look like alien influence was behind it!
We can also look at what our future alien overlords do with their money. Now if you were the richest person in the world, what would you do? Obviously you would buy a small Caribbean (or maybe Mediterranean or South Pacific) island or possibly an entire country, bring in an excellent medical staff and the most beautiful women from around the world (assuming you are male) and spend the rest of your days frolicking on the sand. Please don’t deny it, we all know it’s true! However, what have Bezos and Musk done? Started companies that build spaceships! SpaceX, Blue Origin – are you kidding me? That is certainly not normal human behavior and clearly was done so they can have transport back to their home worlds (or possibly to bring back their relatives - durn anchor babies). It also gives them cover in case they can repair one of the alien spacecraft held around the world – they can hail it as a new, homegrown invention!
As if all the above were not completely convincing, I can provide a further piece of evidence: domestic cats. Why do we spend our lives in servitude to creatures that provide nothing in return? How is it that cats were able to so quickly take over the internet? What made the ancient Egyptians worship them as gods? We are expected to feed them, give them excellent medical care, constantly refresh their water dishes, clean up after all their messes from barfing all over the place, let them out, and in, and out, and in, and out, and maybe in again, and scoop their poop several times a day, and what do they do for us? Maybe bring us a dead animal, or only half of one, if we’re lucky. And if we’re not fast enough bringing them their dinner? They will show their displeasure by peeing on your shirt! Ever have one stare at you? They never blink – clearly part of their alien mind-control techniques. Cats seem to have been brought here to train us to be more effective slaves for our alien leaders once they have fully taken over the planet, and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker!
People, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee - all of the above provides, clear, unambiguous, irrefutable proof that the aliens are here among us and are planning for our imminent demise! Resistance is futile - we will either be wiped out or reduced to servitude. So now you know the truth and we can stop all of these discussions! OK, I have to stop writing and go feed the cats or there will be pee to pay.
(Disclaimer: It is possible that I made up parts or maybe all of the above. Except for Mitch McConnell and the cats).
hahahhahahaha rofl
Brilliant piece of writing - and so true of course. ;) Especially about the cats ;D
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hahahhahahaha rofl
Brilliant piece of writing - and so true of course. ;) Especially about the cats ;D
Really? But what does your husband think?
-
... moving on.
Congressman Tim Burchett will be leading the congressional hearings regarding the testimonials given by military personnel starting with David Grush.
James Comer, Chairman of the House Oversight Committee has appointed Burchett and others to hold the hearings.
interview here https://youtu.be/jGl6l8RfE8E
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So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish
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OK, it’s time to stop all this speculation and look objectively at the facts we already know. Once you do, it’s very clear that the aliens are here, have been living with us for decades at least and are planning for their coming takeover.
We can summarize the proof in two words (or one name): Elon Musk. How is it that one person can come up with so many technologically important companies – Tesla, Boring, Neuralink? Is that possible for a human being? You know it isn’t. With Tesla he can monitor where we are going and what we are doing, with Boring he can develop rapid underground transport so the aliens can get where they want undetected, and the purpose of Neuralink is to develop implants that can control human thought. Why would he do this? Hello??? Obviously to control human minds after the alien takeover! Musk is supposedly from South Africa, but has anyone seen his birth certificate? Has he provided a DNA sample to prove that he is human? I don’t think so - and you know the reason why! Musk is always saying that people need to have more kids, but by “people” he doesn’t mean you or me, instead that is a message to his species to produce more aliens for the coming takeover.
Have you ever wondered why Mark Zuckerberg looks (and acts) so much like a robot? Because that’s the way everybody looks on his planet! The character Data in Star Trek was obviously modeled after another member of Zuckerberg’s species. And what is up with Meta and the Metaverse? Most likely trying to recreate his original planet here on Earth.
What about Jeff Bezos? How could a normal human have quickly made a small company selling used books into a behemoth that moves 80% of all commerce on the planet? Alien technology or knowhow. Ever notice how his right eye always seems a little off compared to the left? That’s clearly because his alien body is having a hard time fitting inside its human shell.
What about Warren Buffett? It seems he got where he is through smarts and hard work – probably one of us.
The aliens also seem to have completely taken over one of the major political parties in the U.S. Does Donald Trump’s orange skin make you think something is a little off? Well that’s the normal color for beings from his planet!
What about Ron DeSantis’ complete lack of emotions and inability to understand and respond to typical human cultural norms? Those are not needed on his planet and apparently he skipped out on those lessons during the training sessions before his arrival.
Ever wonder why Mike Pence is constantly looking towards the heavens? He is waiting for a rescue ship to come and take him and Mother back to their home world! (I’m kind of looking forward to that, too)
Have you ever wondered why Mitch McConnell looks like some sort of mutant love child between a frog and a salamander? Is he an alien too? In his case I think not, unfortunately – he is just a poster child for what happens from too much inbreeding.
And then there’s good old Joe Biden – with an emphasis on old. How can he be so old and still run one of the most powerful countries in the world? It isn’t from taking his Geritol! There are paintings showing Biden out having beers with George Washington and Thomas Jefferson at the * Tavern in Virginia in the 1770s (* - the System won't let me put in the actual name). How can he be almost 300 years old but not look a day over 80? Maybe if he was a vampire, but we know those aren’t real, so the only remaining logical explanation is that he must be an alien!
And what is up with climate change? Most of the aliens came from hotter planets so they took over fossil fuel companies early and allowed us to develop technologies to burn fuel as fast as possible to quickly destroy our planet and make it more habitable for them! And they used us to do it so it doesn’t even look like alien influence was behind it!
We can also look at what our future alien overlords do with their money. Now if you were the richest person in the world, what would you do? Obviously you would buy a small Caribbean (or maybe Mediterranean or South Pacific) island or possibly an entire country, bring in an excellent medical staff and the most beautiful women from around the world (assuming you are male) and spend the rest of your days frolicking on the sand. Please don’t deny it, we all know it’s true! However, what have Bezos and Musk done? Started companies that build spaceships! SpaceX, Blue Origin – are you kidding me? That is certainly not normal human behavior and clearly was done so they can have transport back to their home worlds (or possibly to bring back their relatives - durn anchor babies). It also gives them cover in case they can repair one of the alien spacecraft held around the world – they can hail it as a new, homegrown invention!
As if all the above were not completely convincing, I can provide a further piece of evidence: domestic cats. Why do we spend our lives in servitude to creatures that provide nothing in return? How is it that cats were able to so quickly take over the internet? What made the ancient Egyptians worship them as gods? We are expected to feed them, give them excellent medical care, constantly refresh their water dishes, clean up after all their messes from barfing all over the place, let them out, and in, and out, and in, and out, and maybe in again, and scoop their poop several times a day, and what do they do for us? Maybe bring us a dead animal, or only half of one, if we’re lucky. And if we’re not fast enough bringing them their dinner? They will show their displeasure by peeing on your shirt! Ever have one stare at you? They never blink – clearly part of their alien mind-control techniques. Cats seem to have been brought here to train us to be more effective slaves for our alien leaders once they have fully taken over the planet, and we have fallen for it hook, line and sinker!
People, it’s time to wake up and smell the coffee - all of the above provides, clear, unambiguous, irrefutable proof that the aliens are here among us and are planning for our imminent demise! Resistance is futile - we will either be wiped out or reduced to servitude. So now you know the truth and we can stop all of these discussions! OK, I have to stop writing and go feed the cats or there will be pee to pay.
(Disclaimer: It is possible that I made up parts or maybe all of the above. Except for Mitch McConnell and the cats).
That's exactly what an alien would say 👽😲👽😲
Touché!
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The Alien seen in a yard in Las Vegas. Now this came out hot on the heals of David Grusch. And it actually took a lot of the attention away.
The ones online including the one uploaded by the teenager known as Angel are weak evidence at best. There have been body language experts stating the family look completely fine and are barely pointing etc. And full disclosure I found the whole thing eye rolling I even mock it myself on this thread. This isn't that.
But this is Angel in hisbown words with his edited version.
https://youtu.be/BdsYfGvIznM
It started with a call to 911 from Angel. He reported a 8 foot 9 foot 10 foot alien with big eyes and a big mouth in his yard. He goes on to state there is one in it and one stood outside of it. The family had heard a bang and the ground shook. On investigating the boys entered the yard to have a look and get some tools from Angels truck. They were confronted by two figures in the yard so ran back in to get their father.
It's worth noting that they return armed with handguns not visible in any footage I have seen previously.
Angels reference to one inside and one outside refer to the fact that whomever it is whatever it is one of them has climbed into a digger and the other one is stood outside the digger. Footage of a nearby officers bodyworn clearly shows what appears to be a meteor and the large bang heard on another system (a ring door bell cam) is also evidence of perhaps meteor. Officers attend the property and find a large circle pressed into the yard. Air footage also shows this over the tyre tracks in the yard.
However this footage shows very clearly the family investigating, armed and speaking in an animated fashion. Bare in mind this footage will have been taken to record events. They had expensive equipment in their yard and had been robbed previously.
The enhanced image claims to show the aliens or potentially, thieves ... who chose to wear alien head masks and get a throat reduction.
https://youtu.be/HRNSEgMYsUc enjoy
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The Alien seen in a yard in Las Vegas. Now this came out hot on the heals of David Grusch. And it actually took a lot of the attention away.
The ones online including the one uploaded by the teenager known as Angel are weak evidence at best. There have been body language experts stating the family look completely fine and are barely pointing etc. And full disclosure I found the whole thing eye rolling I even mock it myself on this thread. This isn't that.
But this is Angel in hisbown words with his edited version.
https://youtu.be/BdsYfGvIznM
It started with a call to 911 from Angel. He reported a 8 foot 9 foot 10 foot alien with big eyes and a big mouth in his yard. He goes on to state there is one in it and one stood outside of it. The family had heard a bang and the ground shook. On investigating the boys entered the yard to have a look and get some tools from Angels truck. They were confronted by two figures in the yard so ran back in to get their father.
It's worth noting that they return armed with handguns not visible in any footage I have seen previously.
Angels reference to one inside and one outside refer to the fact that whomever it is whatever it is one of them has climbed into a digger and the other one is stood outside the digger. Footage of a nearby officers bodyworn clearly shows what appears to be a meteor and the large bang heard on another system (a ring door bell cam) is also evidence of perhaps meteor. Officers attend the property and find a large circle pressed into the yard. Air footage also shows this over the tyre tracks in the yard.
However this footage shows very clearly the family investigating, armed and speaking in an animated fashion. Bare in mind this footage will have been taken to record events. They had expensive equipment in their yeard and had been robbed previously.
The enhanced image claims to show the aliens or potentially, thieves ... who chose to chose to wear alien head masks and get a throat reduction.
https://youtu.be/HRNSEgMYsUc enjoy
You might want to find a more reliable source of news than YouTube. Everybody knows Facebook is the only place for accurate news!
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Indicated by 4 or more of the following: 1) suspects, without evidence, that others are exploiting, harming or deceiving him or her, 2) Is preoccupied with unjustifiable doubts about the loyalty of trustworthiness of others, 3) Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that they will use the information maliciously, 4) Reads hidden meanings or threatening meanings into benign remarks of others, 5) Persistently bears grudges, 6) perceives attacks on his/her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack, 7) Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner. DSM-5
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The Alien seen in a yard in Las Vegas. Now this came out hot on the heals of David Grusch. And it actually took a lot of the attention away.
The ones online including the one uploaded by the teenager known as Angel are weak evidence at best. There have been body language experts stating the family look completely fine and are barely pointing etc. And full disclosure I found the whole thing eye rolling I even mock it myself on this thread. This isn't that.
But this is Angel in hisbown words with his edited version.
https://youtu.be/BdsYfGvIznM
It started with a call to 911 from Angel. He reported a 8 foot 9 foot 10 foot alien with big eyes and a big mouth in his yard. He goes on to state there is one in it and one stood outside of it. The family had heard a bang and the ground shook. On investigating the boys entered the yard to have a look and get some tools from Angels truck. They were confronted by two figures in the yard so ran back in to get their father.
It's worth noting that they return armed with handguns not visible in any footage I have seen previously.
Angels reference to one inside and one outside refer to the fact that whomever it is whatever it is one of them has climbed into a digger and the other one is stood outside the digger. Footage of a nearby officers bodyworn clearly shows what appears to be a meteor and the large bang heard on another system (a ring door bell cam) is also evidence of perhaps meteor. Officers attend the property and find a large circle pressed into the yard. Air footage also shows this over the tyre tracks in the yard.
However this footage shows very clearly the family investigating, armed and speaking in an animated fashion. Bare in mind this footage will have been taken to record events. They had expensive equipment in their yeard and had been robbed previously.
The enhanced image claims to show the aliens or potentially, thieves ... who chose to chose to wear alien head masks and get a throat reduction.
https://youtu.be/HRNSEgMYsUc enjoy
You might want to find a more reliable source of news than YouTube. Everybody knows Facebook is the only place for accurate news!
That incident is taking a turn for the wierd. Several things happened that shouldn't have.
1. The police attended that night which was May 1st. The boy who's 16 and called Angel began uploading his footage and in an immature way which is understandable. Then a smear campaign began and significant online bullying. So much so that he has abandoned it. His last massage "OK guys I don't care if you believe it or not but it happened but just leave it alone now guys I just wanna be left alone" ... real shame I've seen some of it. Some as youde expect from ufo nuts but the majority is from skeptics calling him a faker for attention and calling for protective services because his parents shouldn't encourage him to believe in fairy tales. And abusing them for being Hispanic.
That family entered that yard armed to the teeth. Only after he and his brother had gone to his truck to get his tools and seen whatever they saw. They had to assume it was thieves as had happened previously. But despite the guns they saw what they saw with eyes which are better than cameras and torches and decided not to risk it.
And the two figures if thieves ... chose ... to wear alien masks which are clear in the video and climb into a JCB. A worthy haul if you can pull it off. But how quietly can you steal one of those and how far are you going to get in the neighbourhood. The police were already in the area. But alien masks ... hardly helpful. Surely just a face mask would be easier 🤔
2. Following the police visit and giving their report it should have been it. But the police returned. They said the first police had done something wrong so they needed sort it out. They claimed that for the families safety they needed to install cameras on poles because a lot of people will be trying to get in. A local ufo hunter took photos of the cameras attached to the poles. a double dome camera set. The video goes viral on June 3rd. Nearly a month later. However the police return sometime before May 27th and remove the cameras. Before they would allegedly need them. Cameras were installed on the local chiefs orders.
Black pick ups with blacked out windows were reported circling the area constantly. It transpires that one of them belonged to a policeman.
Then it has been reported that the family have disappeared. The house is abandoned causing worry for the family being the story. After that was reported at some point a bulletin was released that family have asked for privacy and have now moved away it transpires. Which is normal 😳. Even sex offendsrs don't suddenly pick the family up and move. This family haven't done anything wrong. Bit extreme.
Various accusations are now being put forth. The kids father set all this up for a prank. With guns???
It was an attempt to make money from utube because Angel created a utube channel to post the video.
Angel was trying to make the video into an NFT and sell it for millions.
lot of hate to put on a child. Particularly one that's comfortable carrying a side arm lol.
Well no doubt this will grow more.
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Indicated by 4 or more of the following: 1) suspects, without evidence, that others are exploiting, harming or deceiving him or her, 2) Is preoccupied with unjustifiable doubts about the loyalty of trustworthiness of others, 3) Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that they will use the information maliciously, 4) Reads hidden meanings or threatening meanings into benign remarks of others, 5) Persistently bears grudges, 6) perceives attacks on his/her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack, 7) Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner. DSM-5
Is this an admission or ... 😧
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The Las Vegas Alien just got even more wierd.
1st May the family witness alien.
The police that attended the property initially left because "they were scared".
Afterwards more police came.
On the 19th May on the orders of Sasha Larkin LVMP assistant sherif and commander of the homeland security division, wireless security cameras were installed on the property. No one knows why. The family were told it was to protect them.
After a podcaster called doug poppa reported on the cameras they were removed a few days later.
June 7 the clip goes viral and no 'protective' cameras are installed.
Sources within the department inform doug that after the incident an IT expert (name known but not given yet) was called in and was told to do something to either the body worn footage of the officers who entered the yard, or the reporting system or both.
Whatever he did 16 minutes of bodyworn footage and audio have been removed ... ehich is really wierd. Simply because it stores for a period of time andnis uploaded. So either it's all kept, or all deleted. Not edited.
When doug first visits the family before the story broke Angel calls someone. A woman. She asks Angel to get dougs plates. It later transpires she is a police officer.
https://youtu.be/q28CizhDr90
https://youtu.be/AZOSdmEDICs
And claims of it being a hoax abound.
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...... and now the extended version showing the aliens and showing the family entering the yard armed posted by utube user ChaosMoogle can't be disseminated. Utube have some kind of block. If you mention it even in code it gets deleted by some bot. People are writing any info about it with spaces. Or backwards. Utube ... stopping you promoting utube??? But only that clip. On most videos you can post video links..
Well here it is again. Mirror it if you can cause its looking like it's gonna get taken down.
Extended Las Vegas Alien video showing famiky armed to the teeth and an alleged aliens https://youtu.be/HRNSEgMYsUc
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Unfortunately, this field is full of hoaxes, muppets and disinformation. And it is a shame, because it is one of the most important issues in the history of mankind. The hoaxes have contributed to the subject being stigmatized for a long time.
I would take anything that Dr. Greer comes up with a bucket of salt. And there are lots of other "UFO performers" out there...
But there are also many serious researchers who have very interesting things to say, for example: Garry Nolan, Avi Loeb, Lue Elizondo, Jacques Vallée, Ross Coulthart. They are respected in their fields and have a solid track record. I try to ignore everything that comes from sensationalist sources and use serious sources as a "filter".
Some people may experience an ontological shock thinking about such matters, though, and that is understandable. I can recommend meditation as a way to expand one's horizons.
If you watch the videos about the nature of reality with Donald Hoffman and Bernardo Kastrup that I linked above, this new info from Ross Coulthart will not be very surprising:
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14azx9k/ross_coulthart_the_craft_is_driven_by_some_kind/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/14azx9k/ross_coulthart_the_craft_is_driven_by_some_kind/)
https://youtu.be/R_ci--0RE7g?t=388 (https://youtu.be/R_ci--0RE7g?t=388)
Ross Coulthart is a respected and serious Australian journalist, and not some muppet or a "UFO performer". And I assume he has access to some serious sources with high clearance levels.
What is interesting, is the switch from the term "extra-terrestrial" to "NHI" (non-human intelligence). This term is used, among others by Nolan, Grusch and Coulthart. And again, it doesn't surprise me...
“Ridicule is not a part of the scientific method and the public should not be taught that it is.”
— J. Allen Hynek
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Indicated by 4 or more of the following: 1) suspects, without evidence, that others are exploiting, harming or deceiving him or her, 2) Is preoccupied with unjustifiable doubts about the loyalty of trustworthiness of others, 3) Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that they will use the information maliciously, 4) Reads hidden meanings or threatening meanings into benign remarks of others, 5) Persistently bears grudges, 6) perceives attacks on his/her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack, 7) Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner. DSM-5
Is this an admission or ... 😧
Trump? ;D
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Latest news. Reports coming in of two f16s engaging a UFO over lake Huron. Allegedly many witnesses saw the planes engaged I a dog fight with what appeared to be a disk..
Local air bases were approached for comment and have stated that none of their aircraft were in the area at any time.
Flight radar 24 paid version anyone? It has a rewind function if you do ...
https://www.google.com/search?q=F-16s+engaged+in+dogfight+over+Bad+Axe&oq=F-16s+engaged+in+dogfight+over+Bad+Axe&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160.1248j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#ip=1 (https://www.google.com/search?q=F-16s+engaged+in+dogfight+over+Bad+Axe&oq=F-16s+engaged+in+dogfight+over+Bad+Axe&aqs=chrome..69i57j33i160.1248j0j4&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#ip=1)
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Latest news. Reports coming in of two f16s engaging a UFO over lake Huron. Allegedly many witnesses saw the planes engaged I a dog fight with what appeared to be a disk......
the reports 'came in' 2 days ago about an incident on jun 3 ...
dogfight is an exaggeration the f16 were not fired on (in feb there was an incident where f16 shot down an object over lake huron in the week after the shootdown of the chinese weather balloon) - this incident is based on witnesses who admit it was difficult to see because of glare (and so once again, no video confirmation). allegedly the f16s discharged defensive flares then flew away while the object took a 'victory lap.'??? hardly the response expected from our air defense!!
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Latest news. Reports coming in of two f16s engaging a UFO over lake Huron. Allegedly many witnesses saw the planes engaged I a dog fight with what appeared to be a disk......
the reports 'came in' 2 days ago about an incident on jun 3 ...
dogfight is an exaggeration the f16 were not fired on (in feb there was an incident where f16 shot down an object over lake huron in the week after the shootdown of the chinese weather balloon) - this incident is based on witnesses who admit it was difficult to see because of glare (and so once again, no video confirmation). allegedly the f16s discharged defensive flares then flew away while the object took a 'victory lap.'??? hardly the response expected from our air defense!!
Well don't forget there were no planes in the area according to the bases. Technically if the craft or a craft or enemy plane uses defensive technology to block the onboard systems used to determine its location, distance and other criteria that can assess that info against known same criteria which are in the database and allow an I.D., if blocking technology is used its apparently a declaration of war.
Anyway this from 3 years ago. If you want to see Neil Degrasi Tyson stop talking for a nano second what this video.
https://youtu.be/sAeTqnRbItg
In it you'll see Jill Tartar - Astronomer and former director of SETI explain to NDT how much of the universe we have searched in its efforts to find extra terrestrial life. She is very down to earth unlike the windbag Seth Showstak who's rabid Skepticism should exclude him from any debate. He'd deny the earth was round if a ufologist said it was.
The hilarious thing about flat earthers is that it's extremely hard to prove them wrong. You might think it's ludicrous but seriously pretend they are Skeptics for a second and you have to prove them wrong with everything you can. lol. it's almost impossible.
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For all skeptics:
Garry Nolan is a professor at Stanford University School of Medicine. From what I have read and heard, his work is brilliant and perhaps Nobel-prize worthy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Nolan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garry_Nolan)
He holds quite many patents:
https://patents.justia.com/inventor/garry-p-nolan (https://patents.justia.com/inventor/garry-p-nolan)
He is also a consultant of the US Intelligence in the field of UAPs.
What is most interesting is that G. Nolan is an "experiencer" himself. As a teenager, he saw a UFO following him and he saw a Grey alien in his room. He also had telepathic contact with non-human entities.
Answer yourself, how likely would it be for someone in his position and with his achievements to make this up. And would such a person be then trusted by the US Intelligence? He is not some dude with a YouTube channel about conspiracy theories. He probably has enough money and fame...
Here he talks about the connection of the phenomenon with consciousness:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZUBulON6I&t=2684s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSZUBulON6I&t=2684s)
As he is an expert for the CIA and Pentagon, it can be expected that he cannot say everything publicly, but he must have seen some really interesting things.
https://youtu.be/e2DqdOw6Uy4?t=100 (https://youtu.be/e2DqdOw6Uy4?t=100)
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Unfortunately, this field is full of hoaxes, muppets and disinformation.
Really? I hadn't noticed that.
What is interesting, is the switch from the term "extra-terrestrial" to "NHI" (non-human intelligence). This term is used, among others by Nolan, Grusch and Coulthart. And again, it doesn't surprise me...
If you are in search for non-human intelligence, then look no further. Your search is over!
There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. Chimpanzees and other great apes for example are quite intelligent. They can even learn sign language and other forms of language, although unfortunately they cannot talk, due to anatomcial reasons. Cetaceans are also among the most intelligent animals. Cats and dogs are also intelligent and even some birds like ravens.
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If you are in search for non-human intelligence, then look no further. Your search is over!
There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. Chimpanzees and other great apes for example are quite intelligent. They can even learn sign language and other forms of language, although unfortunately they cannot talk, due to anatomcial reasons. Cetaceans are also among the most intelligent animals. Cats and dogs are also intelligent and even some birds like ravens.
The context is key. In this context, NHI means the intelligence responsible for the phenomenon, the sightings and the technology that seems to be ages beyond our own level of development.
“Ridicule is not part of the scientific method and the public should not be taught that it is.”
— J. Allen Hynek
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Unfortunately, this field is full of hoaxes, muppets and disinformation.
Really? I hadn't noticed that.
What is interesting, is the switch from the term "extra-terrestrial" to "NHI" (non-human intelligence). This term is used, among others by Nolan, Grusch and Coulthart. And again, it doesn't surprise me...
If you are in search for non-human intelligence, then look no further. Your search is over!
There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. Chimpanzees and other great apes for example are quite intelligent. They can even learn sign language and other forms of language, although unfortunately they cannot talk, due to anatomcial reasons. Cetaceans are also among the most intelligent animals. Cats and dogs are also intelligent and even some birds like ravens.
Right so, a sense of humour is by the by but dismissal isn't scientific nor is it inteligent. You cannot ... well you. an do what you like lol ... but you can't have it both ways. Ether you include all data and work inwards or you exclude the data that doesn't suit and render conclusions as nothing more than conjecture. If you claim otherwise you've lost me and I'll not jump on your gentle humour but can't seriously speak on this subject with a complete stranger who could be a cat lady that eats from a litter tray lol.
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Good grief you simply cannot type Chaosmoogle and alien Las Vegas anywhere on utube and it stay there. it's literally by next refresh it's gone. Platform wide. What's even crazy is you can't type this ... it knows ...
"an event took place in the US. Various movies were put out but were edited. You cannot type the word elgoomsoahc and neila along with the town name Las Vegas. And yet I just did. Try typing the first word and second word reversed. First word is a ... and the second word you can see. You cannot type them and Las Vegas ... because as soon as you hit the post and refresh itll be gone. Theres a block on it because it shows footage of 'them'. You cant even type anything about the above. Now go ahead and try typing it."
Believe it or not that too vanished. Took a minute but woosh gone. Only way I can see that still works is using spaces C H A O S M O O G L E etc. That's all that worked yesterday and post some simple post and edit it and add the above on.
lol what never seen this before. Ever.
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Latest news. Reports coming in of two f16s engaging a UFO over lake Huron. Allegedly many witnesses saw the planes engaged I a dog fight with what appeared to be a disk......
the reports 'came in' 2 days ago about an incident on jun 3 ...
dogfight is an exaggeration the f16 were not fired on (in feb there was an incident where f16 shot down an object over lake huron in the week after the shootdown of the chinese weather balloon) - this incident is based on witnesses who admit it was difficult to see because of glare (and so once again, no video confirmation). allegedly the f16s discharged defensive flares then flew away while the object took a 'victory lap.'??? hardly the response expected from our air defense!!
Well don't forget there were no planes in the area according to the bases. Technically if the craft or a craft or enemy plane uses defensive technology to block the onboard systems used to determine its location, distance and other criteria that can assess that info against known same criteria which are in the database and allow an I.D., if blocking technology is used its apparently a declaration of war. ....
did you read your own link no one said the alleged disk made any offensive actions, nor did it block defenses, it was the f16 that alleged fired flares. more troubling would be US planes that gave up affter encountering an 'enemy' in US airspace
and that area is commonly used for actual dogfight training.
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...
There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. Chimpanzees and other great apes for example are quite intelligent. They can even learn sign language and other forms of language, although unfortunately they cannot talk, due to anatomcial reasons. Cetaceans are also among the most intelligent animals. Cats and dogs are also intelligent and even some birds like ravens.
and then there is Alex the gray parrot
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you (https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you)
it's an very readable book about an amazing bird -- many utube examples
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you (https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you)
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...
There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. Chimpanzees and other great apes for example are quite intelligent. They can even learn sign language and other forms of language, although unfortunately they cannot talk, due to anatomcial reasons. Cetaceans are also among the most intelligent animals. Cats and dogs are also intelligent and even some birds like ravens.
and then there is Alex the gray parrot
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you (https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you)
it's an very readable book about an amazing bird -- many utube examples
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you (https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you)
One of the most fascinating is the chimpanzees that they show a screen lit with squared numbers in numerical order. He taps number 1 and the rest vanish and he has to remember where the rest are. He does it in about 2.5 seconds. Even their own team that train cannot match him. Brilliant. And then there is the rat that has learnt to use a stick to set off a rat trap so it can safely obtain the food.
It seems that many species have or are extremely capable of evolving extremely fast. Judging by the comments on many utube clips it appears we are devolving.
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Good grief you simply cannot type Chaosmoogle and alien Las Vegas anywhere on utube and it stay there. it's literally by next refresh it's gone. Platform wide. What's even crazy is you can't type this ... it knows ...
"an event took place in the US. Various movies were put out but were edited. You cannot type the word elgoomsoahc and neila along with the town name Las Vegas. And yet I just did. Try typing the first word and second word reversed. First word is a ... and the second word you can see. You cannot type them and Las Vegas ... because as soon as you hit the post and refresh itll be gone. Theres a block on it because it shows footage of 'them'. You cant even type anything about the above. Now go ahead and try typing it."
Believe it or not that too vanished. ...
i dont believe because it's absolute nonsense - i typed various combinations you suggested and all gave results and stayed even after a refresh
here's just one link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRNSEgMYsUc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRNSEgMYsUc)
as far as the original video, it's so fuzzy it becomes a Rorschach test
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Latest news. Reports coming in of two f16s engaging a UFO over lake Huron. Allegedly many witnesses saw the planes engaged I a dog fight with what appeared to be a disk......
the reports 'came in' 2 days ago about an incident on jun 3 ...
dogfight is an exaggeration the f16 were not fired on (in feb there was an incident where f16 shot down an object over lake huron in the week after the shootdown of the chinese weather balloon) - this incident is based on witnesses who admit it was difficult to see because of glare (and so once again, no video confirmation). allegedly the f16s discharged defensive flares then flew away while the object took a 'victory lap.'??? hardly the response expected from our air defense!!
Well don't forget there were no planes in the area according to the bases. Technically if the craft or a craft or enemy plane uses defensive technology to block the onboard systems used to determine its location, distance and other criteria that can assess that info against known same criteria which are in the database and allow an I.D., if blocking technology is used its apparently a declaration of war. ....
did you read your own link no one said the alleged disk made any offensive actions, nor did it block defenses, it was the f16 that alleged fired flares. more troubling would be US planes that gave up affter encountering an 'enemy' in US airspace
and that area is commonly used for actual dogfight training.
No I didn't I'm afraid. I saw the various mentions but given David Grusch there will be an uptick in reports from dubious sources. I just mentioned it in passing. However I did read a more reliable source that as you stated reports they set off flares or I assume chaff. Which is a defensive action. The reason I mention jammed instruments is because when David Fravor reported his encounter the Tic tac.
He was heading out to a training range with his rio (nav guy behind him) and in another jet was Lt Detrich (I think I've spelled her name right) and the training was to meet up at a CAP point out at sea and begin the chase exercise.
On the way Fravor received communication from I think the Princetown ... "Break off from training run we have real world tasking"
Detrich says in her report that she thought ooooo we are going after some drug running plane that will be cool. As they approached the area 20,000 feet below them just beneath the surface of the water was an X shaped craft about the size of a 747 with wash breaking across its surface. She initially thought a downed aircraft. But suddenly they all caught sight of the Tic tac and it was zipping north south, east west over the craft. They circled and Fravor said I'm gonna take a look. Detrich said she would remain high and give lookout. As Fravor decended it angled up and zipped up ro his altitude in a large spiral. Fravor spiralled too until they were the same altitude and Fravir cut across the circle to get closer. He got within .1 of a mile which is nothing and it vanished.
He called that in and the Princetown reported back we have it on radar. In about 3 seconds they'd found it. It was stationary, 60 miles away, at their CAP point.
Fravor reported that his onboard instruments whilst initially showing it stopped showing it. Nothing was found wrong with his instruments. It had jammed them. Which is why I mentioned act if war because that's in his statement.
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...
There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. Chimpanzees and other great apes for example are quite intelligent. They can even learn sign language and other forms of language, although unfortunately they cannot talk, due to anatomcial reasons. Cetaceans are also among the most intelligent animals. Cats and dogs are also intelligent and even some birds like ravens.
and then there is Alex the gray parrot
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you (https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you)
it's an very readable book about an amazing bird -- many utube examples
https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you (https://www.npr.org/2009/08/31/112405883/alex-me-the-parrot-who-said-i-love-you)
...
It seems that many species have or are extremely capable of evolving extremely fast. Judging by the comments on many utube clips it appears we are devolving.
basic scientific illiteracy - evolution cannot proceed faster than the generation timescale of an entire species, not individuals. and even then sudden ability to use language is not due to a single mutation -and evolution takes hundreds or thousands of years at its fastest - mostly much longer. (there some examples of faster changes such as cichlids in Lake Victoria) these non human abilities above are not evolution - they're the same as the progression of human children - it's called LEARNING
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Latest news. Reports coming in of two f16s engaging a UFO over lake Huron. Allegedly many witnesses saw the planes engaged I a dog fight with what appeared to be a disk......
the reports 'came in' 2 days ago about an incident on jun 3 ...
dogfight is an exaggeration the f16 were not fired on (in feb there was an incident where f16 shot down an object over lake huron in the week after the shootdown of the chinese weather balloon) - this incident is based on witnesses who admit it was difficult to see because of glare (and so once again, no video confirmation). allegedly the f16s discharged defensive flares then flew away while the object took a 'victory lap.'??? hardly the response expected from our air defense!!
Well don't forget there were no planes in the area according to the bases. Technically if the craft or a craft or enemy plane uses defensive technology to block the onboard systems used to determine its location, distance and other criteria that can assess that info against known same criteria which are in the database and allow an I.D., if blocking technology is used its apparently a declaration of war. ....
did you read your own link no one said the alleged disk made any offensive actions, nor did it block defenses, it was the f16 that alleged fired flares. more troubling would be US planes that gave up affter encountering an 'enemy' in US airspace
and that area is commonly used for actual dogfight training.
No I didn't I'm afraid. I saw the various mentions but given David Grusch there will be an uptick in reports from dubious sources. I just mentioned it in passing. However I did read a more reliable source that as you stated reports they set off flares or I assume chaff. Which is a defensive action. The reason I mention jammed instruments is because when David Fravor reported his encounter the Tic tac. ...t.
ROFL - so, not only did you not bother to read your own recommendation, you then use a completely different incident to show the veracity of an incident hundreds of miles away
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point made.
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The next installment ....
Larry Mcguire Candian MP. In 2022 Larry met with various people regarding the issue of UAP and the then shocking release of information that resulted in the UAP Task Force creation by Congress. AARO. He had some questions because he had concerns that Candian pilots and military personnel had also been regularly reporting sightings and encounters and had been for some time. Article here - https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/5/17/1_5908082.amp.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.ctvnews.ca/national/canada/2022/5/17/1_5908082.amp.html)
Today a memo has been made public, the partial of which is below and the full memo available and its context here:
https://youtu.be/D06uQdk2cys (https://youtu.be/D06uQdk2cys)
partial reads as follows ...
From Larry McGuire MP
Dear Minister Anand,
it has come to my attention through meetings with American officials, the United States Senate Select Committee on Intelligence and Senate Committee on Armed Services have been undertaking in-camera meetings with governmnent and military subject matter experts on the recovery and exploitation of physical material from Unidentified Aerial Phenomena UAP.
I am concerned that the expected upcoming public announcements will be coordinated between AUKUS which could damage Canadas credibility with her allies and the Canadian public on the world stage. There is an opertunity to have a prepared communication plan in place by May 2023 to reduce this risk.
As minister of National Defence you may not be aware that the Defence Research Department Canada has participated in efforts to analyse UAP which is publicly traceable since 1950. This recovered foreign material is studied through the Five Eyes Foriegn Material Programme which in Canada is sponsored by the Canadian Forces Inteligence Command aligned with several Intelligence sharing arrangements and treaties. I am writing to recommend you request a classified briefing, containing full sensitive and protected programme information from your officials on the Government of Canadas historic and ongoing efforts on analysis of recovered UAP materials ....
it continues and has been CC'd to various departments and individual. Full memo on the video above. Downloadable shortly.
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It's in the public domain now so ... here is the memo in full
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Senator Josh Hawley confirms David Grusch's testimony is pretty close to what he was briefed about UAP.
https://youtu.be/BaeSyQCv4tY
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Latest updates on what's happening with David Grusch.
https://youtu.be/AVjzYwQDzeg
Ross Coulthart and Bryce Zabel talk procedure and info from their sources within the inteligence community.
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I added some aliens and ufo images to my ai content and had a few sales.
Maybe I will do some more, if the aliens do come to get us I will at least make some money before they destroy us all.
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Senator Marco Rubio comes foreward ....
He has now heard the testimony from other whistle blowers who have had first hand experience of the recovered craft
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2023/06/rubio-says-hes-heard-shocking-first-hand-accounts-of-ufos.html
https://youtu.be/S7ecxw5x0yA
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Indicated by 4 or more of the following: 1) suspects, without evidence, that others are exploiting, harming or deceiving him or her, 2) Is preoccupied with unjustifiable doubts about the loyalty of trustworthiness of others, 3) Is reluctant to confide in others because of unwarranted fear that they will use the information maliciously, 4) Reads hidden meanings or threatening meanings into benign remarks of others, 5) Persistently bears grudges, 6) perceives attacks on his/her character or reputation that are not apparent to others and is quick to react angrily or to counterattack, 7) Has recurrent suspicions, without justification, regarding fidelity of spouse or sexual partner. DSM-5
Not sure what this was in reference to, but it perfectly describes one of my colleagues in the office next door to mine - Paranoid Personality Disorder.
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And claims of it being a hoax abound.
Maybe because it's a hoax? To me that would be the most likely explanation.
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Judging by the comments on many utube clips it appears we are devolving.
I hate it when that happens. Although it does explain a lot of recent political developments.
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What do you think would happen if we had real, incontrovertible evidence of aliens? For example, if they landed a ship on the White House lawn or at UN headquarters and demanded a meeting with our leaders? Would it unite all of the world's population? Would it cause people to abandon their religions? Give up on our governments?
Why would world governments hide evidence of alien contact if it existed? Would they be afraid of worldwide panic? That's the part I've never understood - if aliens have made contact, why hide it?
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What do you think would happen if we had real, incontrovertible evidence of aliens? For example, if they landed a ship on the White House lawn or at UN headquarters and demanded a meeting with our leaders? Would it unite all of the world's population? Would it cause people to abandon their religions? Give up on our governments?
Why would world governments hide evidence of alien contact if it existed? Would they be afraid of worldwide panic? That's the part I've never understood - if aliens have made contact, why hide it?
In short tactical advantage andnthen money. After that power.
Running up behind the cold War a lot of the uap sighting were tagged as Russian technology. So it became a military matter by default. With full support from the populace who were patriots. Once you take that avenue and perhaps realise or discover this isn't what it is then it becomes a necenessity politically to keep that narrative going whilst throwing the brightest and the best at it. But military tend to have an idea and then to improve security have certain companies make a part of it and break the components down and spread their construction across several. And have a smaller in house team assembling and installing and testing. Back engineering something that already exists and works but you don't k ow how is harder if you only have a small team of experts.
The Manhattan project used already proven technology and known laws of physics and built on that in secrecy. Against an enemy and that kept the secrecy as an act of patriotism. This may have been the same by accident until it was realised it was beyond us.
I've often thought that the best way to expose something is work out what the secret holder needs to do. So in this case its clear youde need certain experts...
Engineers
Physicists
Microbiologists
Language experts
Electrician specialists.
at least. But you don't. You don't need engineers because engineers build what is theoretically possible and tweek it once built. These things work. No engineer required.
Physicists - required
Microbiologists- required for possible organisms that could. e harmful. But you can monitor those members of the public or police already exposed and see how it goes. If they don't die it's probably safe.
Language experts for translation of anything you might find. But you, me a 5 year old are already Language experts we don't need a specialist because we carry a universal translator around with us now.
And electrical potentials are covered by large amounts of trained military personnel.
So any clues we could find are in the early days before our technology became good enough that anybody could be trained to monitor and test without having a careers worth of knowledge to understand the results.
So why keep it secret is because to admit you have technology that is hundreds of years ahead of the Russians could cause a war to get it just like WW2 and going after the scientists has already proved.
Religion is another issue because many of those in power who are in charge of the research and budgets and whatever else are religious and they feel it will take away people's moral code and religious calmness if their idol is ripped away from them. But the Catholic Church has already stated years ago that Earth's God could easily have. reates them as well. So don't panic. I don't believe in god so I'm just putting that out there.
I think there are two very important questions that do not seem to have an obvious answer. Yours ... why don't they just land and be done with it. But the single most stupid question which should be the focus of it all ... and it's a really silly question ... if they can travel the cosmos or interdemensionally ... why do they need running lights?
Because the implications of that question if you answer it are jaw dropping. and give a large clue as to proving they exist. And I've given over a large amount of daydreaming to answer that.
We use them not for navigation as some state. We use them.to make others aware of our location in the sky or at sea or on land. They need power. That usually means a hull penetration. This means a weakness. And it for them at least is a pointless drain on onboard power. It's such a rediculous point to want to know. But the answer reveals so much.
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What do you think would happen if we had real, incontrovertible evidence of aliens? For example, if they landed a ship on the White House lawn or at UN headquarters and demanded a meeting with our leaders? Would it unite all of the world's population? Would it cause people to abandon their religions? Give up on our governments?
Why would world governments hide evidence of alien contact if it existed? Would they be afraid of worldwide panic? That's the part I've never understood - if aliens have made contact, why hide it?
The consequences are impossible to predict, unless you have access to time travel. And they would greatly depend on the type and "nature" of the visitors. In any case, it would be a massive paradigm change. And if there are multiple factions of visitors with different agendas, it complicates things even more.
The word "aliens" suggests ETs from another planet - similar to us, just much more advanced. But it is very limiting. Check the hypotheses of Jacques Vallee.
Imagine the visitors do not come from our universe at all. Or they understand and can operate in 4, 5, 6 spatial dimensions and maybe 2 temporal dimensions. We would be like Flatland for them. Or maybe they can completely transcend spacetime. Hasn't Grusch claimed that one of the craft is bigger inside than on the outside and that time flows differently inside?
What if the visitors had engineered the development of mankind and it was revealed? Or what if the Loosh Farm theory is close to the truth? What if among the visitors are future humans trying to protect or change the timeline?
This would probably destroy our societies... I think I could handle the truth after having read many theories, hypotheses and ideas. But I don't think most people could handle the truth because they have spent all their lives only within the current mainstream paradigms and just cannot imagine anything else. It would be an ontological shock for them.
It would be kind of funny, though, if Star Trek, The X-Files, Stargate, etc. all showed some pieces of the truth. There is a theory that popular culture might be part of "soft disclosure" - getting people used to such ideas, so that it is not such a big shock when the day comes.
For now, it seems that most skeptics are stunned and don't really know what to say. Grusch's case is either psyops on a gigantic scale or what the guy says is basically the truth. What a time to be alive...
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In a new Bill Congress has thrown down the glove.
Any corporation that houses UFOs as part of a special access projects is now obliged to come foreward and they will be give funding to work on their project. Or else ... their funding will be removed.
https://youtu.be/HpuVhb2nBAI
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Grusch's claims being a giant psyop just doesn't make any sense. Look over here at this fantastical revelation about shattering alien claims while we ... what over here. What could possibly be bigger than that. Hide some money? Get RFK into the Whitehouse. And if it was it hasnt worked very well. General public are like ... cool now what's for dinner. The press are ignoring it and skeptics have turned themselves inside out bending to cling onto his claim it may be people from different dimensions.
In a single spade of earth there are hundreds of life forms. On our planet trillions and trillions from bacteria to mammals. In that universe ... the simplest explanation is not interdemensional beings. But it is apparently the most palatable.
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Grusch's claims being a giant psyop just doesn't make any sense.
Without having enough information, it does make sense. Trying to scare the adversaries of the US. It doesn't have to be the case, but it is one of the possibilities.
As other high-profile people seem to confirm the main points and claim Grusch is a credible person, I exclude the possibility that Grusch is making things up. But he might have been fed false information, or partially false information, as part of the psyops.
And if the phenomenon includes humans from the future, it could explain the great secrecy.
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In a single spade of earth there are hundreds of life forms. On our planet trillions and trillions from bacteria to mammals. In that universe ... the simplest explanation is not interdemensional beings.
Not if the theories of people like Donald Hoffman are correct (and I think they might be). And not if what is reported by people who experienced astral projections is part of the "objective reality". Check Robert Monroe's books or other people who report similar things. They open a door to a whole new reality.
That would be very "woo", but maybe woo is just the way things are in the grand scheme of things. Do you want to experience weird things yourself (without taking ayuhuasca, DMT or any drugs)? Try this program used by the CIA for years, the report was declassified some time ago:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia (https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia)
I have been doing it since last year, and it is amazing. I feel much better and stronger. I was able to control (completely "switch off") physical pain with my mind a few times and it shocked me as it happened instantly. Some experiences can be mind-blowing. And I am just a beginner, advanced users often report super-woo things.
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In a single spade of earth there are hundreds of life forms. On our planet trillions and trillions from bacteria to mammals. In that universe ... the simplest explanation is not interdemensional beings.
Not if the theories of people like Donald Hoffman are correct (and I think they might be). And not if what is reported by people who experienced astral projections is part of the "objective reality". Check Robert Monroe's books or other people who report similar things. They open a door to a whole new reality.
That would be very "woo", but maybe woo is just the way things are in the grand scheme of things. Do you want to experience weird things yourself (without taking ayuhuasca, DMT or any drugs)? Try this program used by the CIA for years, the report was declassified some time ago:
https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia (https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9qag/how-to-escape-the-confines-of-time-and-space-according-to-the-cia)
I have been doing it since last year, and it is amazing. I feel much better and stronger. I was able to control (completely "switch off") physical pain with my mind a few times and it shocked me as it happened instantly. Some experiences can be mind-blowing. And I am just a beginner, advanced users often report super-woo things.
Well tye CIA tried everything and more didn't they.
You are forgetting George Knapp regarding a psyop. It isnt going to worry the Russians or Chinese one bit.
Firstly Knapp smuggled classified documents back to the states for several years. The BBC stopped that and he had to rush out. But he was given enough that its known the Russians have them too. Further confirmed by Grusch with his arms race statement. The chinese and Russians do not have oversight like the US and or limits of morality built in from a young age. Frankly they just dont care about much. Safety, morality, money, anything. Psyop it isnt.
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... The chinese and Russians do not have oversight like the US and or limits of morality built in from a young age. Frankly they just dont care about much. Safety, morality, money, anything.
sounds like you're the one in an alternate universe if you believe the US is so different from R&C in these areas
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... The chinese and Russians do not have oversight like the US and or limits of morality built in from a young age. Frankly they just dont care about much. Safety, morality, money, anything.
sounds like you're the one in an alternate universe if you believe the US is so different from R&C in these areas
another unnecessary snarky comment. What you meant to say was "The US are just as bad". And I don't disagree. Just ignore the thread or me lol. You don't believe in any way that this phenomena is anything other than misunderstood ordinary items. You do not believe in the credibility of any military personnel, equipment or data. You just know best. Which is fine. Cool. So stop yourself and show some restraint and don't suffer idiots like me and threads like this. So easy to do. You have the whole Internet to roam mocking people. Have at it. Just if you can't help yourself ... moderate yourself.
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Ross Coulthart talking on the Theories of Everything channel now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQnGcX7oxms (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MQnGcX7oxms)
I consider Coulthart a serious journalist. He might be a little biased, yes. But I don't consider him to be part of the "UFO Entertainment Industry", like many others. There is a reason why Grusch went to him and I think it is because of Coulthart's reputation. The podcast host is genuinely interested in UFOs, but I wouldn't call him a "UFO enthusiast". No tin foil hats.
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... The chinese and Russians do not have oversight like the US and or limits of morality built in from a young age. Frankly they just dont care about much. Safety, morality, money, anything.
sounds like you're the one in an alternate universe if you believe the US is so different from R&C in these areas
Research has shown that repeating a claim increases that claim’s perceived truth value. The UFO propaganda machine is designed to tell the lies over and over and also discredit anything that doesn't agree with the propaganda version of the story. Anything that shows evidence that does follow the story line is vigorously attacked, but anything that follows the propaganda mission is accepted without questioning.
They claim to be searching for the truth but instead are ignoring the facts that would show their claims are vague fantasy science fiction.
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The UFO propaganda machine is designed to tell the lies over and over and also discredit anything that doesn't agree with the propaganda version of the story. Anything that shows evidence that does follow the story line is vigorously attacked, but anything that follows the propaganda mission is accepted without questioning.
They claim to be searching for the truth but instead are ignoring the facts that would show their claims are vague fantasy science fiction.
This may be true for some, maybe even for many people in this field. But your claim is arrogant and ignorant.
Garry Nolan was asked to examine the Atacama skeleton. Stephen Greer was convinced that it was extraterrestrial. Garry Nolan examined the skeleton, and guess what. He said it was human. He had no problems to admit it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_skeleton
If you accuse serious researchers and respected scientists like Garry Nolan of being part of "UFO propaganda", you are making a fool of yourself. There are some clowns in the field, yes, but people like Nolan are the real deal. Look at his scientific achievements, registered patents, position and reputation in the world of science. And then listen to what he says about UFOs.
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... Look at his scientific achievements, registered patents, position and reputation in the world of science. And then listen to what he says about UFOs. ...
consider them, but qualifications in one field don't necessarily qualify someone in another - Nobel prize winners have embarrassed themselves with racist theories or advocating vitamin C as a cure for the common cold
in this case how do his achievements, patents & reputation become evidence for accuracy wrt alien UFO? argument from authority does not give reliability to any statements they may make
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in this case how do his achievements, patents & reputation become evidence for accuracy wrt alien UFO? argument from authority does not give reliability to any statements they may make
That is true, but his achievements prove that he is no tin foil hat wearer and he would be risking his reputation telling lies. And also: he is a freaking consultant of the Pentagon and the CIA in the field of...., yes: UAPs/UFOs. In other words: he has seen things. And he is even an "experiencer" himself.
I cannot think of any possible motivation for someone like Nolan to claim that UFOs are "real", if it wasn't true (at least based on information available to him). He has much, much more to lose than to gain. He probably doesn't need more money. If anything, some people say he might have lost a chance for a Nobel prize, because he has been saying things that have been stigmatized for so long. Therefore, I think he is interested in the truth, has sharp thinking skills and has access to more information than we do.
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Denialism is just as stupid as the Ancient Aliens show, whose authors seem to see "aliens" almost everywhere. Same thing, just the opposite direction.
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I think we are currently seeing a "gradual" disclosure to avoid a shock in our societies. For some reason, this process has accelerated greatly recently. Maybe it is the knowledge of certain future events, maybe certain circles think that the public should know. It is no longer the fringe subject that it was even 10 years ago. Coulthart claims that the Pentagon/CIA have been talking to people in Hollywood about the contents of sci-fi movies and series and have been trying to influence them.
I think many people will experience a huge ontological shock and when/if the day comes, and their belief systems will be shattered. I think I can handle the truth myself because I am familiar with most hypotheses in this field. But the truth might be even wilder than I can imagine, multiple hypotheses could be true...
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If you listen to Ross Coulthart speaking about how he entered into the world of ufology he assumed he could explore the field and in a six month period he would be able to debunk it for good. In fact the more research he completed the further from his goal he became.
He was heavily involved in Australia's school incident. A very interesting case in which a or two ufos landed near a school. Somw of the children ran and got the teachers because they were so terrified. The teachers came running and one of the teachers had a camera and took film photos. It wasn't long before the authorities arrived and a military unit. The speed with which the military arrived suggested a nearby US bases forces had been deployed but if memory serves the arm badge didn't match. Regardless they interviewed the children and confiscated the teachers camera and threatened the teachers to never mention it again. Ross coulthart has explored the details significantly and even created a reunion of the children years later and got them all to draw what they saw.
It's very much the same incident as the school in Africa incident. Ross has also got a standing death threat against him for his journalistic work he did on biker gangs.
Westall incident 1966
https://youtu.be/PjbTJIrMfsg
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.... The speed with which the military arrived suggested a nearby US bases forces had been deployed but if memory serves the arm badge didn't match. ...
so you're saying it had to be US since the Australian military is too slow to respond? US forces in allied countries do not have authority to investigate or respond to local need unless specifically requested
your 'suggestion' is nonsense -- this 50 years old 'incident' (identified at the time as weather balloon(s)) took place in Melbourne, in the farthest SE part of Australia, 1300 MILES from central Alice Springs and 2700 miles from the only other US base (on the west coast) - did US 'forces' unse teleporters?
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in this case how do his achievements, patents & reputation become evidence for accuracy wrt alien UFO? argument from authority does not give reliability to any statements they may make
That is true, but his achievements prove that he is no tin foil hat wearer and he would be risking his reputation telling lies. And also: he is a freaking consultant of the Pentagon and the CIA in the field of...., yes: UAPs/UFOs. In other words: he has seen things. And he is even an "experiencer" himself.
I cannot think of any possible motivation for someone like Nolan to claim that UFOs are "real", if it wasn't true (at least based on information available to him). ...
i never said he was crazy, just that experts in one field can be wrong when they enter a different one - ... you're again arguing from authority - his accomplishments don't extrapolate to his being correct on UFO - and it appears some of the reports in tabloids such as NYB Post & Daily Mirror have distorted his statements or taken them out of context.
his account is much more nuanced in an interview he discussed some of this work -- many individuals had been found to have similar brain 'damage' without disability , among them pilots who saw UFO but many had MRI showing damage before claims of seeing UFO)
Question: How does the impact of electromagnetic frequencies factor into your hypotheses about what exactly transpired here?
With one of the patients, it happened on the Skinwalker Ranch. Given how deep into their brain the damage went, we can actually estimate the amount of energy required in the electromagnetic wave someone aimed at them. We don't think that has anything to do with UAPs. We think that that's some sort of a state actor and again related to Havana syndrome somehow.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes (https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes)
it's an interesting, detailed interview in which Nolan says " The data is there… the explanation is not."
question:How many objects {alleged to have fallen from UFO} have you checked out that are not playing by our rules?
So of the 10 or 12 that I've looked at, two seem to be not playing by our rules. That doesn't mean that they're levitating, on my desk or anything, it just means that they have altered isotope ratios....Let's say we didn't have transistors today and one of these objects dropped a big chunk of germanium doped with other elements, or, you know, these little transistors. We would not have a clue as to the function, and we would ask 'why would anyone put arrays of germanium with these strange impurities in them… what is this thing?' "
it's an unexplained instance but doesnt follow other claims that these are metals unknown on earth - they can be reproduced.
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i have a friend, a respected biologist in optical systems who became a sasquatch believer - certifying bigfoot footprints. i also met a famous geographer in Nepal who had stories of finding stro,ng physical evidence of yeti - but they always arrived a day late after yeti sightings
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The time travel hypothesis was discussed in an off camera meeting between Cdr David Fravour and Bob Lazar. As more rime goes on Lazars ridiculed claims have slowly been substantiated one by one. Fravor requested a meeting and then got into postilation as to how they do what they do. And between them suggested that if they had a form of time travel then perhaps they aren't moving as fast as the impression seems.
David Fravors Tic Tac vanished into thin air. But shortly afterwards it was located on Radar some distance away. It had appeared at their exercise start point. Where they were conducting the air trials. It remained there stationary. It had also blocked on board sensors during the encounter.
just for context:
In U.F.O. arcana, one of the figures claiming a whistle-blower’s knowledge of a secret U.S. program to reverse-engineer recovered alien technology is a man named Bob Lazar.
Here’s how Lazar has told the story: As a physicist educated at M.I.T. and Caltech, he was hired by the U.S. Navy in the 1980s to work as a technician at “S-4,” a subsidiary of Area 51. By his account, the facility contains nine recovered flying saucers; in addition, Lazar has claimed glimpses of alien cadavers and briefings on human contact with the Zeta Reticuli star system.
Heady stuff, this — except that Lazar isn’t actually a physicist, he was never hired by the Navy, he didn’t graduate from M.I.T. or Caltech, and his only possible connection to military installations is a brief stint at a contractor firm associated with Los Alamos.
So to believe his story, you have to believe that once he turned whistle-blower, the Men in Black magically erased all evidence of his résumé. Alternatively, you can just assume that Lazar is an All-American bunkum artist — an impression that his later career as a chemical salesman frequently in trouble with the law does little to dispel.
Ross Douthat https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/10/opinion/ufos-government.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/10/opinion/ufos-government.html)
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his account is much more nuanced in an interview he discussed some of this work -- many individuals had been found to have similar brain 'damage' without disability , among them pilots who saw UFO but many had MRI showing damage before claims of seeing UFO)
Question: How does the impact of electromagnetic frequencies factor into your hypotheses about what exactly transpired here?
With one of the patients, it happened on the Skinwalker Ranch. Given how deep into their brain the damage went, we can actually estimate the amount of energy required in the electromagnetic wave someone aimed at them. We don't think that has anything to do with UAPs. We think that that's some sort of a state actor and again related to Havana syndrome somehow.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes (https://www.vice.com/en/article/n7nzkq/stanford-professor-garry-nolan-analyzing-anomalous-materials-from-ufo-crashes)
it's an interesting, detailed interview in which Nolan says " The data is there… the explanation is not."
question:How many objects {alleged to have fallen from UFO} have you checked out that are not playing by our rules?
So of the 10 or 12 that I've looked at, two seem to be not playing by our rules. That doesn't mean that they're levitating, on my desk or anything, it just means that they have altered isotope ratios....Let's say we didn't have transistors today and one of these objects dropped a big chunk of germanium doped with other elements, or, you know, these little transistors. We would not have a clue as to the function, and we would ask 'why would anyone put arrays of germanium with these strange impurities in them… what is this thing?' "
it's an unexplained instance but doesnt follow other claims that these are metals unknown on earth - they can be reproduced.
As you can see yourself, he is not a "UFO performer" or part of the UFO Entertainment Industry. He examines stuff, and if something is of human origin, he will just gladly say the way it is. He has a reputation and I don't think that he could have motivation to tell lies.
But here is a recent interview with Nolan:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2DqdOw6Uy4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2DqdOw6Uy4)
Recorded about 1 month ago. I don't care much what people like Greer, Corbell, de Long or Knapp say about UFOs. But when Nolan says something like that, it has a certain weight. And what he said was a bomb, as a matter of fact. Nolan has connections to the Pentagon and the CIA and he must have seen some stuff, about which he is not yet authorized to talk in detail right now. But I think we will slowly get to that point.
Your link is from 2021, and since then a LOT has happened in this field. I used to be on the fence a few years ago, but now not so much.
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Why do they crash if they are so advanced?
Nolan speculates that at least some of them are in fact intermediaries, drones, an intelligence test for us. Showing up on a planet ruled by monkeys with nukes who eat other animal species may very well be perceived as dangerous. So, maybe they want to see if we figure out what is behind that craft, as an intelligence test.
Here is what humans do with wild animals in forests and jungles. You might think that leaving a mirror in a forest or a jungle doesn't make sense and is in fact stupid. But nevertheless, humans do it and observe the reactions of the animals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvYRjEVfcUA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvYRjEVfcUA)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT3o0mhAm44 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lT3o0mhAm44)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaMylwohL14 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaMylwohL14)
There are literally loads of such videos on YouTube. I have a feeling that denialism is similar to failing the mirror test.
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.... The speed with which the military arrived suggested a nearby US bases forces had been deployed but if memory serves the arm badge didn't match. ...
so you're saying it had to be US since the Australian military is too slow to respond? US forces in allied countries do not have authority to investigate or respond to local need unless specifically requested
your 'suggestion' is nonsense -- this 50 years old 'incident' (identified at the time as weather balloon(s)) took place in Melbourne, in the farthest SE part of Australia, 1300 MILES from central Alice Springs and 2700 miles from the only other US base (on the west coast) - did US 'forces' unse teleporters?
I never said any such thing. A fabrication of your attitude again. The opinion of the investigators stated (had you bothered to watch the video) stated that the military forces arrived within 20 minutes of the event. As such the nearest bases that had the ability to arrive in that time frame and wearing the appropriately coloured uniform were US forces from a base with the 20 minute time frame. Goodness for a skeptic you do go off half cocked don't you. I will assume this renders the rest of your post ... nonsense.
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"Heady stuff, this — except that Lazar isn’t actually a physicist, he was never hired by the Navy, he didn’t graduate from M.I.T. or Caltech, and his only possible connection to military installations is a brief stint at a contractor firm associated with Los Alamos."
More poorly researched copy and paste ... lazy
Despite his records being removed including an attempt at removing his birth certificate George Knapp did track down an archived copy of a newspaper report about Bob Lazar. In the article it stated that he was a Physicist working at Los Alamos labs. The article was I believe about his jet car that he drove to work at the labs.
Los Alamos confirmed to Knapp that Bob worked there. Knapp asked for records of employment which they agreed to supply in a week. The week came and went and when it reached week three he called again and was told that Bob didn't work there and never had and that no such employment records existed.
He confronted Bob about this to which Bob's response was ... ok let's go ill take you there right now. George accepted and they went. Lazar entered the labs and without any hesitation took George through the complex and introduced George to the people that worked there. They knew Bob.
Later George tracked down the reporter who wrote the article about Bob and suggested that he was mistaken and that Bob was a chancer. The reporter firmly corrected George and stated that if he had mistakenly called Bob a physicist out at Las Alamos when he wasn't they would have sacked him because they would never accept someone credited with them and that title if he wad no such thing. The reporter was never sacked. Bobs name also appeared in the telephone directory at the labs.
Whilst Bob has recieved much in the way of weekly death threats, governmnent searches of his home and complete contempt from skeptics and believers in equal measure one thing that he hasn't recieved much of is money. When he appeared onnthe Joe Rogan experience he paid his own fares. And he wasn't paid to appear. Whether he is telling the truth or not, you certainly do not have a single clue either way and at this point you are just embarrassing yourself.
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The UFO propaganda machine is designed to tell the lies over and over and also discredit anything that doesn't agree with the propaganda version of the story. Anything that shows evidence that does follow the story line is vigorously attacked, but anything that follows the propaganda mission is accepted without questioning.
They claim to be searching for the truth but instead are ignoring the facts that would show their claims are vague fantasy science fiction.
This may be true for some, maybe even for many people in this field. But your claim is arrogant and ignorant.
Garry Nolan was asked to examine the Atacama skeleton. Stephen Greer was convinced that it was extraterrestrial. Garry Nolan examined the skeleton, and guess what. He said it was human. He had no problems to admit it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atacama_skeleton
If you accuse serious researchers and respected scientists like Garry Nolan of being part of "UFO propaganda", you are making a fool of yourself. There are some clowns in the field, yes, but people like Nolan are the real deal. Look at his scientific achievements, registered patents, position and reputation in the world of science. And then listen to what he says about UFOs.
How would someone identify an alien skeleton? Are they tall or short (as they have been reported as both and many others) or do they look like us. How many different races of aliens are visiting us, yet we see none and they don't just pick up a phone and call someone.
I'm always wondering if we have all these different aliens, coming from who knows where, different places, they must know about each other. Yet we can't seem to figure out, where they come from. Air, underground or from the water?
But just for the simple question, what do aliens look like? Things like physical appearance, height, hands, eyes?
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
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Yet we can't seem to figure out, where they come from. Air, underground or from the water?
Because we are not very smart as a species, in the grand scheme of things. The US military has reports of trans-medium craft, operating in the air and under water at speeds and acceleration beyond our science.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
What's the problem? Nolan examined it said it was human. That is the whole point. Read the context of the post. A poster claimed that there is some "UFO propaganda" rejecting all evidence that doesn't fit into the narrative. And here you have people like Nolan.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?
Someone chopped off your fingers? Do your own research. Lol ...
"ill try again ... i demand answers now run off and get them for me 🤣
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
obviously through dna analysis. Assuming they aren't actually descended from us they should in theory be different from us. But this planet is old. Maybe like we broke away from the apes "allegedly", they broke away much sooner.
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.... The speed with which the military arrived suggested a nearby US bases forces had been deployed but if memory serves the arm badge didn't match. ...
so you're saying it had to be US since the Australian military is too slow to respond? US forces in allied countries do not have authority to investigate or respond to local need unless specifically requested
your 'suggestion' is nonsense -- this 50 years old 'incident' (identified at the time as weather balloon(s)) took place in Melbourne, in the farthest SE part of Australia, 1300 MILES from central Alice Springs and 2700 miles from the only other US base (on the west coast) - did US 'forces' unse teleporters?
I never said any such thing. A fabrication of your attitude again. The opinion of the investigators stated (had you bothered to watch the video) stated that the military forces arrived within 20 minutes of the event. As such the nearest bases that had the ability to arrive in that time frame and wearing the appropriately coloured uniform were US forces from a base with the 20 minute time frame. Goodness for a skeptic you do go off half cocked don't you. I will assume this renders the rest of your post ... nonsense.
ROFL! YOU suggested US forces in your quote, now you're trying to wiggle out - NO US forces were withing 20 miles of Melbourne - please list the bases from which US forces cold have arrived. (i've documented my claim - as usual you spout nonsense with no facts, - then you're annoyed when someone calls you out!
and your continued ad hominen attacks just show how weak your arguments are
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..
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
obviously through dna analysis. Assuming they aren't actually descended from us they should in theory be different from us. But this planet is old. Maybe like we broke away from the apes "allegedly", they broke away much sooner.
allegedly?? do you not accept evolution? you dont accept the relation between apes & humans, but you guess at an 'alien' species before the divergence 6-9 MILLION years ago
there is no fossil evidence for such creatures -- learn some biology - species don't 'break away', with isolation, mutations & natural selection they change slowly over time.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
obviously through dna analysis. Assuming they aren't actually descended from us they should in theory be different from us. But this planet is old. Maybe like we broke away from the apes "allegedly", they broke away much sooner.
allegedly?? do you not accept evolution? you dont accept the relation between apes & humans, but you guess at an 'alien' species before the divergence 6-9 MILLION years ago
there is no fossil evidence for such creatures -- learn some biology - species don't 'break away', with isolation, mutations & natural selection they change slowly over time.
Your English is actually quite bad i was mistaken. You have the ability to write it perfectly clearly but you lack some ability when reading it. The word maybe isn't used when stating known facts. We use it when we don't know. I don't claim to know. So I used maybe. I used allegedly to stop you jumping on me for claiming it as fact. I do not know if we descended from apes. Therefore I wouldn't claim it to be so. Some skeptics would argue that if we descended from apes ... why do we still have apes.
As for attacks against you, you are irrelevant. I merely respond to your attacks claiming nonsense and delusional opinions. Which serve no purpose but to inflate your ego further. You obviously cannot moderate yourself so I'll moderate myself.
Clearly your self proclaimed superiority on all matters is significantly lacking when it comes to the simple act of being polite and having a conversation. I feel sorry for you because it must be a lonely place to be. Ah well.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?
Someone chopped off your fingers? Do your own research. Lol ...
"ill try again ... i demand answers now run off and get them for me 🤣
I have looked and I can't make sense of this, I thought someone who has the answers and experience would be able to give me some clear ways to identify what the aliens look like. As I've asked, it's not that difficult, is it. There are all kinds of claims and sightings, what do they look like? Tall or short. How many fingers. What do the eyes and heads look like.
How can you talk about all these alien sightings and no one can say what they look like? They aren't invisible are they?
Or are you just avoiding the answer, because you don't have one?
Yes I have fingers... I'll just leave it at, I'm asking a question, can't I ask questions? Jezz, nice answer "Do your own research.". :o
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
What's the problem? Nolan examined it said it was human. That is the whole point. Read the context of the post. A poster claimed that there is some "UFO propaganda" rejecting all evidence that doesn't fit into the narrative. And here you have people like Nolan.
OK I thought you were saying this is some kind of proof of alien life forms, when it was instead a deformed fetus that had DNA defects.
I also wondered how someone claiming it was Alien DNA (not you, someone else) would have alien DNA to compare it to, instead of jumping to the conclusion that, since they don't know why it's different, it must be space visitors.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?
Someone chopped off your fingers? Do your own research. Lol ...
"ill try again ... i demand answers now run off and get them for me 🤣
I have looked and I can't make sense of this, I thought someone who has the answers and experience would be able to give me some clear ways to identify what the aliens look like. As I've asked, it's not that difficult, is it. There are all kinds of claims and sightings, what do they look like? Tall or short. How many fingers. What do the eyes and heads look like.
How can you talk about all these alien sightings and no one can say what they look like? They aren't invisible are they?
Or are you just avoiding the answer, because you don't have one?
Yes I have fingers... I'll just leave it at, I'm asking a question, can't I ask questions? Jezz, nice answer "Do your own research.". :o
facetious though isn't it. You know and I know, and you know I know, that if someone had a body in the public domain we wouldn't even be having this conversation. David Attenborough would be slithering all over it. It was a dull attempt Peter. Clumsy.
But you know ... perhaps if you did your own research and found one in the public domain you could be sitting there now ... polishing your Nobel prize.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
What's the problem? Nolan examined it said it was human. That is the whole point. Read the context of the post. A poster claimed that there is some "UFO propaganda" rejecting all evidence that doesn't fit into the narrative. And here you have people like Nolan.
OK I thought you were saying this is some kind of proof of alien life forms, when it was instead a deformed fetus that had DNA defects.
I also wondered how someone claiming it was Alien DNA (not you, someone else) would have alien DNA to compare it to, instead of jumping to the conclusion that, since they don't know why it's different, it must be space visitors.
Well would it be the same as ours?
Though judging by the US going in to meltdown about a guy with a beard, dressed as a Disney princess at Disney working in the Fairy Princess makeover room with children, I doubt if alien DNA did make it into the public domain the US could cope. Judging by the comments on every platform a large section of the US would mallet it into a smear with their shoe whilst wailing about "their Lord" 🙄 tragic.
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OK I thought you were saying this is some kind of proof of alien life forms, when it was instead a deformed fetus that had DNA defects.
I also wondered how someone claiming it was Alien DNA (not you, someone else) would have alien DNA to compare it to, instead of jumping to the conclusion that, since they don't know why it's different, it must be space visitors.
You don't need to know alien what DNA is like to confirm that some species is not from Earth, or rather not part of the same evolutionary tree as us.
But if there is a shadow biosphere (hypothetical) on Earth, such lifeforms would also seem "alien" to us:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_biosphere
Nolan talked about such a possibility in some interviews.
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...
obviously through dna analysis. Assuming they aren't actually descended from us they should in theory be different from us. But this planet is old. Maybe like we broke away from the apes "allegedly", they broke away much sooner.
allegedly?? do you not accept evolution? you dont accept the relation between apes & humans, but you guess at an 'alien' species before the divergence 6-9 MILLION years ago
there is no fossil evidence for such creatures -- learn some biology - species don't 'break away', with isolation, mutations & natural selection they change slowly over time.
... I do not know if we descended from apes. Therefore I wouldn't claim it to be so. Some skeptics would argue that if we descended from apes ... why do we still have apes. ....
given your history here i can accept YOU dont understand evolution, but The theory of evolution is one of the fundamental keystones of modern biological theory supported by over 100 years of scientific evidence.
you keep using weasel words like 'some skeptics' so you can later claim you never made these silly claims.
the only 'skeptics' who think we descended from apes are those such as religious fundamentalists who think the literal bible is a scientific source. no scientifically knowledgeable person claims we descended FROM apes -=- instead, evolution shows we descended from a common ancestor 6-9 million years ago, so there's no scientific reason for apes to disappear
but and this isnt off the UAP topic - scientific ignorance is greater in the US than in any other developed country - more people believe in astrology (and likely UFO aliens) than believe in science like evolution; resulting in a population w/o the basic knowledge to make intelligent decisions. (unfortunately these people can also vote)
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You don't need to know alien what DNA is like to confirm that some species is not from Earth, or rather not part of the same evolutionary tree as us.
actually your mention of a shadow biosphere says the exact opposite - that there may be such organisms that evolved here on earth
...
But if there is a shadow biosphere (hypothetical) on Earth, such lifeforms would also seem "alien" to us:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_biosphere
Nolan talked about such a possibility in some interviews.
did you bother to read your link? "Existence of a shadow biosphere could mean that life has evolved on Earth more than once, which means that microorganisms may exist on Earth which have no evolutionary connection with any other known form of life also note that this hybpthesis doesn't propose anything above microbial level
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no scientifically knowledgeable person claims we descended FROM apes -=- instead, evolution shows we descended from a common ancestor 6-9 million years ago, so there's no scientific reason for apes to disappear
That is a little inaccurate. Our most closely related living relative is the genus Pan (chimpanzees and bonobos). Together with them we form the taxon Hominini. The closest relativ of the Hominini is the gorilla and then in turn the orang utan. These species together form the familiy Hominidae (great apes or hominids).
Here you can see the relationship:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominini
So, biologically speaking, humans are still great apes (a member of the family Hominidae). If you go with the common language usage, where the term great ape only refers to the non human members of that familiy, then you would have to say that we are descendants of great apes. If the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees would still be alive today, there can be no doubt that it would be classified as a great ape. Of course that is still no reason why great apes (or apes in general) should not be living today.
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did you bother to read your link? "Existence of a shadow biosphere could mean that life has evolved on Earth more than once, which means that microorganisms may exist on Earth which have no evolutionary connection with any other known form of life also note that this hybpthesis doesn't propose anything above microbial level
Did you try to understand what I wrote? I never mentioned any biosphere beyond microbial level. It was just an example: it is conceivable that there are organisms on Earth that could appear "alien" to us, but in reality originated also on Earth in a different process.
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actually your mention of a shadow biosphere says the exact opposite - that there may be such organisms that evolved here on earth
Thank you, Captain Obvious. I wrote that "such lifeforms would seem 'alien' to us" (without being alien). Where's the lie?
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no scientifically knowledgeable person claims we descended FROM apes -=- instead, evolution shows we descended from a common ancestor 6-9 million years ago, so there's no scientific reason for apes to disappear
That is a little inaccurate. Our most closely related living relative is the genus Pan (chimpanzees and bonobos). Together with them we form the taxon Hominini. The closest relativ of the Hominini is the gorilla and then in turn the orang utan. These species together form the familiy Hominidae (great apes or hominids).
Here you can see the relationship:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominini
So, biologically speaking, humans are still great apes (a member of the family Hominidae). If you go with the common language usage, where the term great ape only refers to the non human members of that familiy, then you would have to say that we are descendants of great apes. If the last common ancestor of humans and chimpanzees would still be alive today, there can be no doubt that it would be classified as a great ape. Of course that is still no reason why great apes (or apes in general) should not be living today.
understood and scientifically accurate, but given the mass ignorance of science in the US public, the distinction is unknown. 'apes' in common talk means today's existing chimps & gorillas, not a larger clad that includes humans. and the concept of a common ancestor vs direct changes from chimps are conflated. so creationists hoist this strawman:
lowls:
I do not know if we descended from apes. Therefore I wouldn't claim it to be so. Some skeptics would argue that if we descended from apes ... why do we still have apes.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
obviously through dna analysis. Assuming they aren't actually descended from us they should in theory be different from us. But this planet is old. Maybe like we broke away from the apes "allegedly", they broke away much sooner.
Well if they "broke away" from us then they must have originated on Earth and wouldn't actually be aliens. Maybe they originated in Atlantis and took off in space ships before their city was flooded and are now coming back to visit?
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
What's the problem? Nolan examined it said it was human. That is the whole point. Read the context of the post. A poster claimed that there is some "UFO propaganda" rejecting all evidence that doesn't fit into the narrative. And here you have people like Nolan.
I'm trying to follow the logic here (without actually reading all of the links). So someone found an "alien" body, tested the DNA and it came back human. So not alien. This proves that some people at least will admit they are wrong when faced with clear evidence, which gives them credibility if they have some evidence they think must actually be alien? Even if it is a different kind of evidence that is outside their area of expertise? I think that is the point you're trying to make.
Of course if someone really wanted to show there are aliens all they have to do is make the material available to the broader scientific community instead of some sort of small, secret military analyses. If Michael Flynn and others in the previous US administration is an indication of the quality of scientific analysis and critical thinking in the military then I wouldn't give them much stock.
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I do not know if we descended from apes. Therefore I wouldn't claim it to be so. Some skeptics would argue that if we descended from apes ... why do we still have apes.
You may not know it, but science has proven 100% that we descended from apelike creatures. We did not descend from the current apes, nor they from us, but we all derived from a common ancestor that lived a few million years ago. We still have other apes because they live in different environments and have not gone extinct, the same reason we have many wild species of cats, or birds or any other creatures.
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I do not know if we descended from apes. Therefore I wouldn't claim it to be so. Some skeptics would argue that if we descended from apes ... why do we still have apes.
You may not know it, but science has proven 100% that we descended from apelike creatures. We did not descend from the current apes, nor they from us, but we all derived from a common ancestor that lived a few million years ago. We still have other apes because they live in different environments and have not gone extinct, the same reason we have many wild species of cats, or birds or any other creatures.
Thank you. I actually did look it up yesterday because I didn't know it. I've heard the argument I mentioned many times but I don't get involved because it is something that I have no knowledge of. 98 to 99% similar dna apparently proving a common ancestor as you said.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
What's the problem? Nolan examined it said it was human. That is the whole point. Read the context of the post. A poster claimed that there is some "UFO propaganda" rejecting all evidence that doesn't fit into the narrative. And here you have people like Nolan.
I'm trying to follow the logic here (without actually reading all of the links). So someone found an "alien" body, tested the DNA and it came back human. So not alien. This proves that some people at least will admit they are wrong when faced with clear evidence, which gives them credibility if they have some evidence they think must actually be alien? Even if it is a different kind of evidence that is outside their area of expertise? I think that is the point you're trying to make.
Almost. Nolan did not find the body. It was sent to him. He never claimed it was alien. From what I have read, Greer was very angry that Nolan dared to say it wasn't alien. But Nolan doesn't care about such people or publicity. He doesn't care if you believe in UFOs or not. He is not part of the "UFO Entertainment Industry". He does what he does, and he is an expert in his field. And he is a consultant of the CIA/Pentagon in the field of UAPs.
So, when you have respected people like Nolan, who have access to more information than we do, say things like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2DqdOw6Uy4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2DqdOw6Uy4)
we should at least pay attention.
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Cmdr David Fravor and Ryan Graves call to action UAP filmed podcast ... discussing what needs to happen. 1.5 hours. Uploaded today.
https://youtu.be/KuX4GLHLRz8
Listen to these two professionals and then tell me you or Mick West knows better and these men are delusional. You'll just be embarrassing yourself.
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The theory of evolution is one of the fundamental keystones of modern biological theory supported by over 100 years of scientific evidence.
Amen to that!
But I have to stress that evolution is a fact rather than a theory and has been from the beginning. As I recall from reading Darwin's book on the origin of species many years ago, he spent quite a lot of it documenting clear cases of evolution and postulating others from his observations of living species compared to the fossil record. Darwin was a keen student of biology and also was familiar with plant and animal husbandry. He documented many cases of man-guided evolution of plants and animals by selective breeding. I don't remember his specific examples but I seem to recall that he was quite fond of pigeons. During his travels on the Beagle and afterwards locally in Britain he saw many, many cases of fossils that were similar to, but different from, contemporary species and deduced how they could have changed over time. Darwin's great insight was that the kinds of changes caused by artificial selection directed by people, when effected by different and changing environments over the course of geological time, could eventually lead to the generation of species and the great diversity of life on earth. People often like to talk about Darwin's theory of evolution, but I think it is more accurate to say that Darwin proposed the theory of natural selection as the mechanism to explain the fact of evolution. For Darwin evolution was always a fact, the theoretical part was understanding the mechanism by which it occurred. Of course we now know that there can be many mechanisms only one of which is natural selection, but that's how science proceeds.
To relate this back to the OP, if life did evolve on other planets then of course it would likely be very different from anything here on Earth. DNA testing is unlikely to be useful except to confirm an Earth origin because beings from other planets might not even use DNA as a genetic material - you wouldn't even be able to extract it, much use it to analyze relationships. It would be interesting to see what Nature on other planets could come up with, but I won't be holding my breath on seeing any of that.
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?
Someone chopped off your fingers? Do your own research. Lol ...
"ill try again ... i demand answers now run off and get them for me 🤣
I have looked and I can't make sense of this, I thought someone who has the answers and experience would be able to give me some clear ways to identify what the aliens look like. As I've asked, it's not that difficult, is it. There are all kinds of claims and sightings, what do they look like? Tall or short. How many fingers. What do the eyes and heads look like.
How can you talk about all these alien sightings and no one can say what they look like? They aren't invisible are they?
Or are you just avoiding the answer, because you don't have one?
Yes I have fingers... I'll just leave it at, I'm asking a question, can't I ask questions? Jezz, nice answer "Do your own research.". :o
facetious though isn't it. You know and I know, and you know I know, that if someone had a body in the public domain we wouldn't even be having this conversation. David Attenborough would be slithering all over it. It was a dull attempt Peter. Clumsy.
But you know ... perhaps if you did your own research and found one in the public domain you could be sitting there now ... polishing your Nobel prize.
Excellent avoidance and side step, once again.
What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
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What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.
For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.
Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...
There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.
Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.
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...
What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
...
"Let’s take the UFO occupants for starters. Joe Nickell’s Alien Time Line (first published in the September/October 1997 Skeptical Inquirer) is a handy chart listing numerous types of reported nonhumans in chronological order of when they were seen. Most are anthropomorphic: a head, two arms, a midsection, and two legs. Some look like robots or a toaster. There’s a big blue grasshopper, too (Nickell 1997). Based on just this, if we have a nonhuman intelligence piloting UFOs, it appears there’s a lot of different species who managed to make contact but remain relatively hidden for whatever reason. The question has to be asked and answered: Is it likely different races just happen to evolve on different planets/dimensions to be anthropomorphic and these many races are able to get here and they all have chosen to stay out of human reach? What are the odds of this? Or are all the reported races better explained by a psychological explanation? Until we have real tangible evidence, a psychological explanation seems more realistic according to Occam’s razor."
https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/ufos-now-called-uap-(unidentified-aerial-phenomenon)-crowd-stories-and-photos/250/?action=post;quote=589285;last_msg=589285 (https://www.microstockgroup.com/off-topic/ufos-now-called-uap-(unidentified-aerial-phenomenon)-crowd-stories-and-photos/250/?action=post;quote=589285;last_msg=589285)
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How would someone identify an alien skeleton?
DNA analysis. This is what Noland did.
I read the link, it says it was human DNA?
I'll try this again. What do aliens look like? Height, weight, eyes, hands, just some basic features that we can identify?
Someone chopped off your fingers? Do your own research. Lol ...
"ill try again ... i demand answers now run off and get them for me 🤣
I have looked and I can't make sense of this, I thought someone who has the answers and experience would be able to give me some clear ways to identify what the aliens look like. As I've asked, it's not that difficult, is it. There are all kinds of claims and sightings, what do they look like? Tall or short. How many fingers. What do the eyes and heads look like.
How can you talk about all these alien sightings and no one can say what they look like? They aren't invisible are they?
Or are you just avoiding the answer, because you don't have one?
Yes I have fingers... I'll just leave it at, I'm asking a question, can't I ask questions? Jezz, nice answer "Do your own research.". :o
facetious though isn't it. You know and I know, and you know I know, that if someone had a body in the public domain we wouldn't even be having this conversation. David Attenborough would be slithering all over it. It was a dull attempt Peter. Clumsy.
But you know ... perhaps if you did your own research and found one in the public domain you could be sitting there now ... polishing your Nobel prize.
Excellent avoidance and side step, once again.
What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
The problem is Pete you've already made it abundantly clear you don't believe a word from anyone. Me I get ... pffff random poster etc... but you don't believe anyone. Not military pilots. Not members of the public. Not government employees who's job it is to investigate UAP ... you claim are mistaken identity. Claiming I and others are avoiding your demands is ludicrous ...
Peter Page 1 and subsequently as well ...
"Just like Nessy, Champ, sasquach, the Bermuda Triangle or so many more. Well OK Area 51 is really something, but mythical beasts and UFOs that are satellites, landing lights, Venus, "strange disappearances" and most of the time very well explained, are the basis for a whole mythology.
Good for public speakers, books, blogs and radio talk hosts.
People who outgrew, ghosts, faeries, the Easter bunny and Santa Claus, still have more modern adventures, searching for outer space visitors."
Why would they waste their time Peter. Not side stepping tye question. Just who is asking it. And as a photographer you should know very well why any photos and pictures are rubbish. Cameras have got better and more prolific ... but they can't do much with a 2.4mm focal length or there abouts can they apart from zoom. Which you know very well doesn't zoom it just crops. End result - fuzzy. Most have image stabilisation. End result- Jerky zoomed fuzzy images.
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/true-or-crazy-ufo-whistleblowers-coming-out-of-the-woodwork/ar-AA1dyMw4 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/true-or-crazy-ufo-whistleblowers-coming-out-of-the-woodwork/ar-AA1dyMw4)
In a June 26 interview with NewsNation, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) stated that multiple individuals had corroborated a whistleblower’s explosive allegations of a secret, decades-long UFO crash retrieval and reverse-engineering effort.
As the top Republican on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and a member of the so-called Gang of Eight, Rubio’s extraordinary comments carry particular weight.
According to Rubio, only one of two remarkable outcomes will ultimately explain recent developments, “Either what [the whistleblower] is saying is partially true or entirely true,” he said, “or we have some really smart, educated people with high clearances and very important positions in our government who are crazy and are leading us on a goose chase.”
“Most of these people,” Rubio continued, “have held very high clearances and high positions within our government. So, you ask yourself: What incentive would so many people with that kind of qualification — these are serious people — have to come forward and make something up?”
Pressed for details, Rubio stated that individuals with “firsthand knowledge or firsthand claims” are “saying to us what you’ve seen out there in the public record, whether it’s about legacy [UFO] programs or about current events.”
According to Rubio, the whistleblowers’ statements are beyond “the realm of what any of us [on the Senate Intelligence Committee] has ever dealt with.”
I'd say the third option is psyops... but I don't know how likely it could be at this point.
I am leaning towards option 1. Am I certain? No. But it is a very interesting and important subject matter.
Denialists will say: "It can't be, therefore it isn't."
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https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/true-or-crazy-ufo-whistleblowers-coming-out-of-the-woodwork/ar-AA1dyMw4 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/true-or-crazy-ufo-whistleblowers-coming-out-of-the-woodwork/ar-AA1dyMw4)
In a June 26 interview with NewsNation, Sen. Marco Rubio (R-Fla.) stated that multiple individuals had corroborated a whistleblower’s explosive allegations of a secret, decades-long UFO crash retrieval and reverse-engineering effort.
As the top Republican on the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, and a member of the so-called Gang of Eight, Rubio’s extraordinary comments carry particular weight.
According to Rubio, only one of two remarkable outcomes will ultimately explain recent developments, “Either what [the whistleblower] is saying is partially true or entirely true,” he said, “or we have some really smart, educated people with high clearances and very important positions in our government who are crazy and are leading us on a goose chase.”
“Most of these people,” Rubio continued, “have held very high clearances and high positions within our government. So, you ask yourself: What incentive would so many people with that kind of qualification — these are serious people — have to come forward and make something up?”
Pressed for details, Rubio stated that individuals with “firsthand knowledge or firsthand claims” are “saying to us what you’ve seen out there in the public record, whether it’s about legacy [UFO] programs or about current events.”
According to Rubio, the whistleblowers’ statements are beyond “the realm of what any of us [on the Senate Intelligence Committee] has ever dealt with.”
I'd say the third option is psyops... but I don't know how likely it could be at this point.
I am leaning towards option 1. Am I certain? No. But it is a very interesting and important subject matter.
Denialists will say: "It can't be, therefore it isn't."
If what Ross said a couple days ago then option 1 seems to be the way it's going to go. It's looking increasingly likely that in a couple of weeks Grusch and the committee will be holding the hearings. But what is surprising is that it appears or rather Ross states that its looking more and more likely that they will be open.
A stumbling block is that those holding them won't have enough clearances so it's is being pushed towards Biden that clearances can be waved. Given the evidence it appears that if true, there was never any oversight and therefore clearances will mean little legally.
Further he states there is a movement among the skeptic community to bring the whole thing to a halt. They haven't been able to corrupt Grusch’s credibility so they are going after the Head of intelligence claiming that he stated that Gruschs claims were as stated and presented an urgent and credible threat. But that he meant nothing more than Gruschs claim of being hindered and victimised because he pushed for access to the special programmes. The head of intelligence has clarified that he meant the claim of back engineering craft following his own exhaustive investigations while speaking with people within these programmes who have testified under oath.
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@LDV8 ... not sure if you caught this one. Ross is dropping some rather hefty hints as to the way this is going ...
https://youtu.be/qrs8hNBzW90
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Some of the good bad and ugly uap footage clips out there recently. The one he claims is fake where a lad is filming it in a dark street ... isn't fake but it isnt a UAP. I would bet money it's lasers. We have that very display over our house at certain times of the year along with distant thumping music.
https://youtu.be/eGrQuIAJVeE
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From 1971 Periscope photos.
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1971 more periscope photos
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Another Ross Coulthart interview in the last 24 hours.
part of the episode context .... the law that has been passed gives UAP holders as in those that are saud to be holding UAP for back engineering ... Lockhead is one that has been accused I'm aware of that ... gives them 6 months ro come clean or their funding will be stopped dead. The Interviewer asked his question and Ross drops a bombshell. This hasn't be made public until now ....
17.50 onwards ....
"Yeah but Ross doesn't this just give them 6 months to hide their .... "
Ross "OK. How about this. What if that .... is just too big to move."
Interviewer "How big is big"
Ross "So big they couldn't move it and had to build a building over the top of it. In a country outside of the US"
https://youtu.be/ZUZUyck6KoU
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House Oversight Comittee to hold public hearings featuring whistblowers regarding UAP. Scheduled to run at the end of the month. Date tba
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While you wait here are the 80s Roswell incident interviews many of which have long since been deleted from utube. Click the link and a roll back to beginning of live stream.
https://www.youtube.com/live/EE5UhZVVzg8?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/live/EE5UhZVVzg8?feature=share)
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Interview this week ...
Tim Gallaudet - Admiral Tim Gallaudet discusses how he received the go fast video in 2015 via supranet (military internet) via email flagging air safety issues due to number of sightings.
https://www.youtube.com/live/wGHAs10vMso?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/live/wGHAs10vMso?feature=share)
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Congreswoman Anna Paulina Luna (asked by Comer to co-chair the hearings) is briefly interviewed by Matt Laslo regarding the upcoming open UAP hearings which will bring forth further Whistel blowers who have more information regarding the UAP phenomena and what it means for the human race. In this brief interview he asks her what is the format and plan and outcome ....
ML: “Have you guys…are you going to be focusing on the whistleblower’s—Grusch’s mates? Trying to corroborate his story? I think, Gillibrand says that’s what she’s gonna do but sounds like you guys here are trying to be a little broader?”
APL: “So what we're focusing on is, one, getting the information out to the American people: Clearly, this is a big galaxy that we live in and that there is very likely technology that we are unaware of where it’s come from—and so, does this pose a national security threat?”
“And then, as far as UAP goes, I mean, the Air Force had a program called Project BLUE BOOK that was established, and there's archived information. We’re going to be pulling that information out and presenting that to the American people.
“But it's important that instead of trying to make this conspiratorial and poo-pooing it, that people are actually understanding that it's very likely that there's other life forms out there and that we're not alone in this universe and that we can address these things with a scientific mindset.”
Further several aerospace engineers employed at various firms have been contacted by the heads and told that they are not permitted to speak to the press and that any and all comments or information will be referred directly to the congressional AARO team.
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The latest... UAP amendment to disclosure ...
At the appropriate place, insert the following:
TITLE l—UNIDENTIFIED ANOMALOUS PHENOMENA DISCLOSURE
5 SEC. ll01. SHORT TITLE. This title may be cited as the ‘‘Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena Disclosure Act of 2023’’ or the ‘‘UAP Disclosure Act of 2023’’.
These are amendments that have been submitted.
Source government pdf link https://democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/uap_amendment.pdf…
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Oh dear god ...
Clearance Jobs, an organization that defines itself as “the largest career network for professionals with federal government security clearance,” has issued an apparent letter of guidance to its personnel to help them understand the consequences of whistle blowing.
Their legal team has gone over a variety of scenario's in their letter and site David Grusch as an example. They claim that he may think he is legally protected but in fact he has made a mistake and that he has done nothing other than offer a public good which although admirable, isn't a defence in law.
So they claim he has put himself at risk of prison for revealing his experiences under the whistle blower act but didn't satisfy the criteria to be protected by it.
Chillingly their lawyer asserts that should anyone do this and not make sure they are protected ....
“Though your career is over and you are sitting in a jail cell, you are still, ethically, at least, on solid footing,” Brown offers. “Strictly from a utilitarian perspective, your act did the maximum amount of good for the maximum amount of people. As a matter of deontology, you had a duty to do something so intrinsically good and right. And ultimately, good government should be as transparent as possible and accountable to its citizens. And you can reflect on all this as you decay in a federal penitentiary. Don’t worry, though. You’ve got a heck of a book deal waiting for you on the other side.”
A significant threat if ever there was one wrapped in a 'helpful' format.
Clearly Clearance Jobs thought they needed to quickly lay it all out there ... stupidly showing that there is something to be found. They state "leaving lizard people out of this for a moment" ... but thats all the whistle blower act protects in this context. UAPs and UFOs and material of non human origin/inteligence ... Lizard or otherwise.
Was meant to be an internal memo to all departments and ended up in the press. Where should we focus our attention I wonder ... duh!
source https://news.clearancejobs.com/2023/07/13/how-to-blow-the-whistle-if-you-work-with-flying-saucers-and-their-alien-pilots/
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Burchett and Luna confirm House UFO hearing date is July 26th 2023 ..... 😊😊😊 ... what will be revealed ...
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Silver sphere filmed bobbing about initially. Those clouds do cause turbulence if it were a balloon. But those clouds are around 4 thousand feet and a balloon would be much lower or it eouod be the size of a very large house. But then the object tracks away and as it leaves the frame another follows it. interesting stuff coming out via social media
https://streamable.com/bmp1pt
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What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.
For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.
Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...
There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.
Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.
This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
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This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Besides that, do you also have anything intelligent to add?
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What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.
For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.
Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...
There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.
Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.
This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Blimey that's quite a sweeping statement and given the recent events in Congress a little bit of a missinformed one. Senators Schumer and Rounds have issued an amendment to declassified any and all meterial relating to UFOs, UAPs and material of non human origin to be held, catalogued and held for historic importance and research by the public. This in the wave of the discovery that much of this meterial was being held under a non related classification of Radialogical nature. This meant that the legislation could hide it under that umbrella. No longer. It must be made available.
Further any and all material of nonbhuman origin and uaps and ufos and related materials will now automatically be owned by the governmnent and keeping it will be a serious offence.
There are going to be financial incentives to come foreward and disclose what you know, how, and what you have. They want all of it.
Anyone threatening or attempting to force people to sign non disclosure agreements (which is allegedly happening rapidly) will be prosecuted and the NDA null and void. No matter who it originates from.
Rumours has it that Lockhead Martin are in quite a flap and jave been trying to offload theirs. They requested that the classification be opened to allow a larger research group and this was denied and threats made. So they aren't happy. They aren't the only one.
So you look at all that and the laws that are being drafted enmass regarding this and then look at what you typed. 😆 🤣
https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa (https://www.democrats.senate.gov/newsroom/press-releases/schumer-rounds-introduce-new-legislation-to-declassify-government-records-related-to-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-and-ufos_modeled-after-jfk-assassination-records-collection-act--as-an-amendment-to-ndaa)
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This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Blimey that's quite a sweeping statement and given the recent events in Congress a little bit of a missinformed one. Senators Schumer and Rounds have issued an amendment to declassified any and all meterial relating to UFOs, UAPs and material of non human origin to be held, catalogued and held for historic importance and research by the public....
Further any and all material of nonbhuman origin and uaps and ufos and related materials will now automatically be owned by the governmnent and keeping it will be a serious offence.
...
yet another of your out of context misstatements -
no one yet has actually shown ANYTHING related to interstellar lifeforms - congress may declassify such material IF IT EXISTS, but does not say there actually is any there there.
breaking news -latest unexplained lifeform found hiding in Istanbul airport:
(https://cascoly.com/1-tfr/230516-2001-face-aiP.jpg)
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no one yet has actually shown ANYTHING related to interstellar lifeforms - congress may declassify such material IF IT EXISTS, but does not say there actually is any there there.
1. "Interstellar lifeforms" is already an interpretation. At this point, the public doesn't know much, so "NHI" and "the phenomenon" are better terms.
2. Face the music. If there is nothing behind the claims, then either one of these must be true:
a) some high-ranking US government officials and military staff with high clearances are bats#it crazy
b) we are watching some gigantic psyops
There are no other options.
But if it is psyops, they could certainly make it more shock-and-awe... And it should get much more coverage in mainstream media.
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP68-00046R000200090025-2.pdf (https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP68-00046R000200090025-2.pdf)
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no one yet has actually shown ANYTHING related to interstellar lifeforms - congress may declassify such material IF IT EXISTS, but does not say there actually is any there there.
...
2. Face the music. If there is nothing behind the claims, then either one of these must be true:
a) some high-ranking US government officials and military staff with high clearances are bats#it crazy
b) we are watching some gigantic psyops
There are no other options.
really?
c - their testimony will cover only unexplained events, no actual evidence, especially now ET artifacts or bodies
d - they have examined all the evidence & concluded there is nothing ET
e - they will release data previously classified for natl security which led to conspiracy theories. releasing it earlier would have exposed our technologies which have now been replaced by more sophisticated programs
f - they have finally developed cameras that can actually focus & discovered the terran origin of previously classified as UFO
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really?
c - their testimony will cover only unexplained events, no actual evidence, especially now ET artifacts or bodies
d - they have examined all the evidence & concluded there is nothing ET
e - they will release data previously classified for natl security which led to conspiracy theories. releasing it earlier would have exposed our technologies which have now been replaced by more sophisticated programs
f - they have finally developed cameras that can actually focus & discovered the terran origin of previously classified as UFO
What? What you have come up with is already covered by a.
Grusch and others have made some very concrete and bold claims. Watch the interview with Grusch. I think you are not familiar with it. Apparently, he, and other people who came out, are viewed as "credible" by the Congress and elsewhere.
If these claims are not true, then some high-ranking US officials are nuts, mentally unstable or whatever. Or this is psyops.
Denialism at this stage is nothing else than a religious belief. I don't know if Grusch and others are nuts. Maybe they are, but maybe not. But I am very curious to find out the truth and I am simply open-minded about it.
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If these claims are not true, then some high-ranking US officials are nuts, mentally unstable or whatever.
Yeah, what else is new?
Denialism at this stage is nothing else than a religious belief. I don't know if Grusch and others are nuts.
"Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think. Frank writes that he does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships".[24]"
From:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims
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"Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think. Frank writes that he does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships".[24]"
From what I have read, some witnesses have confirmed at least some of Grusch's claims and there will be a hearing. The fact that such claims are even being investigated is quite astonishing. Before 2017, they would have just been ridiculed and ignored.
Jonathan Grey, a current US intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (Nasic), confirmed the existence of “exotic materials” to the Debrief.
“The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said.
“Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/ufo-house-representatives-hearing-investigation (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/ufo-house-representatives-hearing-investigation)
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Jonathan Grey, a current US intelligence official at the National Air and Space Intelligence Center (Nasic), confirmed the existence of “exotic materials” to the Debrief.
“The non-human intelligence phenomenon is real. We are not alone,” Grey said.
“Retrievals of this kind are not limited to the United States. This is a global phenomenon, and yet a global solution continues to elude us.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/ufo-house-representatives-hearing-investigation (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/08/ufo-house-representatives-hearing-investigation)
That is true. There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. I mentioned this before. There are chimpanzees, other great apes, dolphins and to a lesser degree cats and dogs and many other animals. And it is in fact a global phenomenon. Just recently, I detected a cat in my neighbours garden.
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That is true. There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. I mentioned this before. There are chimpanzees, other great apes, dolphins and to a lesser degree cats and dogs and many other animals. And it is in fact a global phenomenon. Just recently, I detected a cat in my neighbours garden.
Very funny ;D Consider a career as a stand-up comedian :P
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That is true. There is certainly non-human intelligence on this planet. I mentioned this before. There are chimpanzees, other great apes, dolphins and to a lesser degree cats and dogs and many other animals. And it is in fact a global phenomenon. Just recently, I detected a cat in my neighbours garden.
Very funny ;D Consider a career of a stand-up comedian :P
Thank you! However, having watched The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel, I know that is not so easy to make a living in that field.
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If these claims are not true, then some high-ranking US officials are nuts, mentally unstable or whatever.
Yeah, what else is new?
Denialism at this stage is nothing else than a religious belief. I don't know if Grusch and others are nuts.
"Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think. Frank writes that he does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships".[24]"
From:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims
Sorry you've got muddled. It isnt hearsay in a legal sense which although I didn't look, I'm guessing your wiki link is then legal sense. If not sorry in advance.
His claims are what you and me and everyone who is non intelligence services are allowed to hear. That should shock you to the core. You've been granted permission to hear that because he completed the proformas from DOPSR. West 🤡 led the charge that this meant it wasn't true because they only allow true stuff that's a national security issue to be stopped. As he was making this up he could go for his life... and his reputation could die a horrible death. But Mick West is an expert in computer programming and has ZERO other qualifications in the inteligence agencies or governmental procedures.
If they prevented him it leant weight to his whistle blowers claims and instigated a full and thorough investigation which to prove he was lying ... theyde have to read in to these special programmes ... senators they didn't want looking. By allowing him, they bought themselves time.
But Grusch doesn't need your belief or support because a year agohe testified to a panel of people within the intelligence agency and the top guy there audited his testimony and found it credible and urgent. This was rapidly sent to congress and they collected some congressional bodies and some senators advisors to listen to David Grusch. The advisors ran away and briefed their bosses and they too made him testify under oath and questioned him for 11 hours. This testimony and their findings after exhaustive investigation of his claims led them to create a UAP task force headed up by Sean Kirkpatrick. Some under informed chancers claim that Kirkpatricks claim "nothing credible" is where it stops. Wrong.
1. Kirkpatrick didn't have enough clerances to push into special projects. Particularly ad the investigation proved they they had been deliberately held in a holding programme labelled Radialogical Anomalies. Which meant that the clearness given AARO weren't entitled to look there. Other whistblowers whom Grusch has brought to congress ... A YEAR AGO .... taught congress that.
So what we saw with Ross Coulthart is true. But it is only publicly new. Not new. But because the appointed are telling the elected to grow up and go away and write cheques and leave them alone ... too many facts are on the electeds side.
This is bipartisan and it is from the top. This isn't going to flop. It isnt going to fade away. It is literally a game changer and if congress fails to overrule the Intelligence agencies who are trying to block this (why if it isn't true) ... then it will explode out in a different way.
This time it is very much a case of you can't put this s£it back in this horse. Never gonna happen. Too many people who don't care ... are in key positions to make this happen. Grusch pulled a master stroke. But then he is strategically brilliant.
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What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.
For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.
Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...
There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.
Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.
This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
The internet has created a cult of false information and the easy way to deliver it. Now claiming a big event and how serious and credible people are coming forward. If what they say is true we haven't had first contact but there are 82 species that have visited. https://www.inquisitr.com/3434305/ufo-researchers-82-alien-species-are-currently-in-contact-with-earth-and-at-least-four-are-fighting-for-control-over-earth-video (https://www.inquisitr.com/3434305/ufo-researchers-82-alien-species-are-currently-in-contact-with-earth-and-at-least-four-are-fighting-for-control-over-earth-video) Hellyer gave testimony before Canada’s parliament about a government cover-up of UFO information and ETs visiting Earth in advanced UFO spacecraft.
Watch the brainwahsed come back at you and me, without answering the Hellyer claims and how absurd they are in fact.
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Tim Burchett interview about what's happened, what's happening and what will be happening. So no ambiguity...
https://youtu.be/4tRNIa7LO4U
Named people testifying publicly on July 26th:
David Grusch
Ryan Graves
David Fravor
There have been others but as Burchett states they have withdrawn due to pressure not to testify. Whatever has happened may come to light.
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This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Denialists are the new conspiracy theorists :) There is a conspiracy behind any attempts to research anomalous phenomena and attempts to declassify stuff, LOL. :) Noland, Elizondo, Loeb belong to the conspiracy :) LMAO...
Why would people with respected careers in their fields risk being ridiculed? Because they are part of the conspiracy, LOL...But what are the goals of the conspiracy? Hmmm....
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This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Denialists are the new conspiracy theorists :) There is a conspiracy behind any attempts to research anomalous phenomena and attempts to declassify stuff, LOL. :) Noland, Elizondo, Loeb belong to the conspiracy :) LMAO...
Why would people with respected careers in their fields risk being ridiculed? Because they are part of the conspiracy, LOL...But what are the goals of the conspiracy? Hmmm....
I know right. It's like Mick West. His loyal following have now started throwing questions at him. Many are turning on him. He appeared on newsnation and ... jeeze ... it was just clutching at straws. Any possible alternative is preferable to the obvious. Its light anomalies, weather but Micks favourite trope is "they believe it but they are obviously mistaking what they are seeing for something prosaic" ... he said ... from behind his computer screen .... and his book is on its second edition ... 🤦 ... he's gone so fringe in his debunking his own twitteraty were calling him out yesterday.
It's funny because the professional skeptics like Seth Shostak are ... busy lol. Probably writing a new C.V.
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If these claims are not true, then some high-ranking US officials are nuts, mentally unstable or whatever.
Yeah, what else is new?
Denialism at this stage is nothing else than a religious belief. I don't know if Grusch and others are nuts.
"Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester, published a critique of the Grusch claims on June 22 with Big Think. Frank writes that he does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships".[24]"
From:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims
FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real. Accusations are not proof, just ideas and conjecture.
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.
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Double post
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Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.
You have posted that gag of yours for the umpteenth time, but it doesn't add anything constructive or interesting to the discussion. Like a broken vinyl record, stuck in a groove.
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
Wasting your breath. He can't help himself. It's tragic. He doesn't believe or care or matter or contribute ... seriously just look at what he writes compared to what's going on in the real world. It's literally tragic at this point.
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.
Jesus ... bring out ya dead ... ding ... bring out ya dead
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Probably all a misunderstanding. For example, if Grush asks anybody whether they think there is evidence for non-human intelligence on earth, any sensible person would answer: "Yes, of course!", probably not realizing that Grush for some reason seems to think that dolphins and chimpanzees are human.
You have posted that gag of yours for the umpteenth time, but it doesn't add anything constructive or interesting to the discussion. Like a broken vinyl record, stuck in a groove.
It's not a gag, even if I sometimes try to bring a little humour to the discussion and it is only the third time i'm bringing it up.
And I will continue to do so, as long as they use this absurdly stupid name. How can they expect to be taken seriously, when they are so dismissive of animal intelligence?
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
Since we don't know who and what they said, we can only guess about the credibility and motivations, but good points.
As I have tried to get specifics, I get answers like, "use your fingers and search" or slam dunk replies, that some others have posted that just ignore the questions and flip into attacking me personally, (and anyone else who doesn't just roll over and say, yes, yes, yes...) rather than the questions and information and the subject. I appreciate that you are asking logical, why not, kinds of things.
Speaking of clearance, this can be over rated. Just about everyone who is in the military is cleared for SECRET. I don't know the standards, but those who can't pass that, probably aren't allowed to serve. I was cleared for TOP SECRET not because of anything interesting, but because I worked in a Headquarters Battery and handled messages and codes. It's all standard, fairly ordinary kinds of things, but I had to be investigated by the FBI and who knows who else.
So as an example if Grusch interviewed people with high clearances, would TOP SECRET be high enough? Could I be a source based on my personal opinion and experiences? Just an example of how a claim can be propped up with appearances.
Just to be clear on my personal position. I'll wait and see how this plays out, before I start to believe or deny what he's claiming. That's a reasonable position, to see how the facts, evidence, and claims match up, before going into how this is a stunning new development. We've been reading bait for years, most of it is just wishing and hypothetical. Being that I'm older, I've been reading the SOS claims and promises and secret developments and discoveries, for many more years. :)
Twisted truth and ignoring the dissent or brushing it off as some kind of negative skeptic position, is odd. People who want to know the truth, should be skeptical, and should ask difficult questions, before they are convinced and believe something that's highly unusual and extraordinary. Not the other way around.
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
Just to be clear on my personal position. I'll wait and see how this plays out, before I start to believe or deny what he's claiming. That's a reasonable position, to see how the facts, evidence, and claims match up, before going into how this is a stunning new development. We've been reading bait for years, most of it is just wishing and hypothetical. Being that I'm older, I've been reading the SOS claims and promises and secret developments and discoveries, for many more years. :)
.... People who want to know the truth, should be skeptical, and should ask difficult questions, before they are convinced and believe something that's highly unusual and extraordinary. Not the other way around.
Finally a mature well thought out response. Mostly. You won't get away without being pulled up for the previous know it all dismissive claptrap of your previous posts but at least here ... we've found a middle ground. Thank you Peter.
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FOAF kind of hearsay that most often doesn't trace back to any real individual at all. What people believe and how many believe, doesn't make something real.
If Grusch had been told BS, it raises many questions. Grusch is not some YouTube dude with a UFO podcast, he was tasked with this investigation by the Department of Defense. It's no joke, that thing was serious.
Now, if some people with very high clearances had decided to tell him fairy tales as part of his investigation, the obvious question is: WHY?
W-T-F is going on there? Lying to someone in his position, while he is conducting an investigation, is really serious. And if they believed in what they told him, then it's another "W-T-F is going on there?"
These are the right questions imho. Why would people who seemingly only have to lose lie about it? And if they're not lying, w t actual f is going on.
There are many reasons to think of why anyone would lie about it. Diversion and smoke-screening is one of them. They might try to draw attention to something else, preventing a more meaningful thing to be investigated or revealed. Destabilization, smear campaigning or political motifs are also a possibility.
Admittedly, it's weird.
But the other option, Grusch is right, is even more weird. I just can't imagine that we would live in a world we're living in right now with all of that being true. Makes no sense at all. Space exploration would be way higher up any political agenda for instance, and our armies and defense systems would look completely different from what we see now.
The vast majority of past UFO reports and sightings are perfectly refutable and have scientific or other explanations. Scientists and high ranked military personnel also admit that a small minority of the reports are impossible to explain, and remain a mystery. Yet, that doesn't mean that those sightings or events involve alien lifeforms and technology.
Anyhow, we all want to believe, right? And that makes it a very engaging topic to follow and discuss.
And while we're doing that, we're not talking about other things that probably matter more. :-)
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People who want to know the truth, should be skeptical, and should ask difficult questions, before they are convinced and believe something that's highly unusual and extraordinary. Not the other way around.
1. Open-minded skepticism is great. Denialism is stupid.
2. Proposing a hypothesis is fine. You don't need evidence to propose a hypothesis. A hypothesis is different from a theory.
There are reports of unexplained anomalous phenomena. And there are the "extraterrestrial" / "extratemporal" / "interdimensional" etc. hypotheses trying to come up with an explanation. It is all fine. Most great discoveries were once just a "hypothesis" (unless it was a serendipity). A hypothesis may be refuted or not.
3. The question is what is more unusual and extraordinary?
I would say that the assumption that humans are the pinnacle of intelligence and technical development in the universe / multiverse / the wider reality is just preposterous. I would even say that it is the pinnacle of arrogance. Humans only invented bicycles a few generations ago, and most humans have big problems imagining a "simple" tesseract.
Also, if you watch the videos with Professor Donald Hoffman that I linked above, you will realize that we can only perceive a tiny little bit of reality, and even that little bit is completely distorted. Hoffman showed evidence that evolution hides the reality from us.
If humans were the most advanced beings and there were no other beings capable of visiting the Earth across the whole wider reality, I would say that it is pretty "extraordinary".
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3. The question is what is more unusual and extraordinary?
I would say that the assumption that humans are the pinnacle of intelligence and technical development in the universe / multiverse / the wider reality is just preposterous. I would even say that it is the pinnacle of arrogance. Humans only invented bicycles a few generations ago, and most humans have big problems imagining a "simple" tesseract.
Also, if you watch the videos with Professor Donald Hoffman that I linked above, you will realize that we can only perceive a tiny little bit of reality, and even that little bit is completely distorted. Hoffman showed evidence that evolution hides the reality from us.
If humans were the most advanced beings and there were no other beings capable of visiting the Earth across the whole wider reality, I would say that it is pretty "extraordinary".
You are mixing up two different things here. I think that practically nobody claims that we are the most advanced species in the universe, except perhaps some people who do not believe that intelligent life exists on other planets for religious reasons.
Given the number of stars in the universe and that we have discovered a number of solar systems with planets among the limited number of stars close enough for us to detect this, it is very likely that there is large number of planets in the universe where life developed and also very likely that some of them are more advanced than we are.
However, whether any of these planets are near enough for the inhabitants to reach Earth is a totally different question. Not nearly every solar system with planets is suitable for life. There needs to be a planet large enough to hold an atmosphere at the right distance to the sun. There probably also needs to be water on the planet. And it needs to have a magnetic field in order to protect it against solar winds.
With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.
But lets say that by an astonishing conicidence one of the adavanced species live on one of planets in the solar systems near to us, say 10-20 lightyears away and they somehow managed to travel to Earth. I guess it is theoretically possible.
But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.
Sorry, but I am not convinced.
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With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.
1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.
2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.
3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.
Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.
Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.
4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.
5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.
The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.
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But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.
1. The "losses" may very well be intentional. For example, an intelligence test for "wild primates" on this planet. Humans conduct similar tests with mirrors placed in jungles and forests. Or to cause certain developments on Earth, kind of like the monolith in Space Odyssey 2001.
2. The craft may be some cheap drones that they don't care about.
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But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.
1. The "losses" may very well be intentional. For example, an intelligence test for "wild primates" on this planet. Humans conduct similar tests with mirrors placed in jungles and forests. Or to cause certain developments on Earth, kind of like the monolith in Space Odyssey 2001.
2. The craft may be some cheap drones that they don't care about.
I think you're straying there. If abductions are to be believed no such tests would be required.
Roswell - big electric storm reported that night as well as visual sighting of a craft. Plus ... if you're old enough to remember it, they were testing some sort of powerful radar around that time.
"Crashing all the time" is a childish cliché trotted out by people who lack any form of big picture ability. How many are here or come here denotes a value for "all the time".
If several thousand a year visit ... 1 per 10 years is irrelevant given how much of our crap breaks due to mechanical failure. Weather. Poor skill due to illness or lack of ability.
If 10 per year visit, 1 per decade isn't "all the time" either. People keep saying it though. Stupid people.
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Commander Chad Underwood was stationed on the Nimitz and worked for David Fravor. After David Fravor engaged the UFO which came to be known as the Tic Tac returned to the Nimitz Chad Underwood was prepping for his flight. Favid Fravor said to him ... there's something wierd going on out there. If you can gets some film of it. He did. This is the Tic Tac film that was leaked and then confirmed by the USAF.
Here he explains his experience https://youtu.be/4opsdH4hY3s
It's worth watching Mick Wests take on this which appears credible and is full of very convincing analysis and is a point of hilarity to those involved who actually use and know and are qualified to operate that equipment unlike Mick West who's only experience begins and ends with Google.
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What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.
For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.
Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...
There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.
Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.
This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
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What do the aliens look like? We have all kinds of reports and claims, people have seen them and believe they have been abducted. What do aliens look like in their descriptions. That's a pretty basic and simple question? Is there any group consensus or collective way to describe the alien appearance?
What do UFOs look like. I mean, I can describe an airplane, boat or a car, can someone describe what the aliens travel in? No I don't expect anyone to understand the propulsion systems, just some nice basic data to build from?
There are all kind of photos and claims. Darn near everyone now carries a camera/phone that can take photos or video. I would expect we'd have more and better images, than in the old days.
After the disclosure or the official first contact, you should be able to buy an encyclopedia of aliens with illustrations. If you survive the ontological shock.
For now, the field is so muddied with hoaxes and disinformation, that for the average person it is difficult to figure out what is true.
Listen to serious and credible people like Elizondo, Nolan, Coulthart or Valleé. You will not hear stories about the Galactic Federation or alien races from them. But what you hear from them sounds very serious. Elizondo and Nolan probably cannot disclose everything they know and have seen. Look up that famous "somber" comment from Elizondo...
There are plenty of reports from "experiences", just look for them. There are some recurring "races" of aliens in their stories, but it is up to you to judge how credible a given experiencer is. I will not do that for you. I am not trying to convince anyone about anything, but I wish some people expanded their intellectual horizons a little. It is great to be an open-minded skeptic, but it is stupid to be a denialist.
Why haven't we had a disclosure or an official first contact yet? Well, just look at this thread... Denialists and religious fundamentalists on the whole planet would probably go berserk... But things have accelerated greatly in the recent months for some reason. I think we are approaching that moment.
This will be just another farce from the UFO cult followers. These events are nothing but more programming for the weak minds of the brainwashed.
Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
Who does?
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To watch the UAP hearings live follow this link to the live stream. It is designated to begin at 10am Eastern Standard Time. However EST isn't a straight conversion to your local time. Google changes it to Eastern Time which is a catch all for EDT or EST because of daylight saving. For instance 10am ET translates to Greenwhich Mean Time (GMT) 2pm. But the Utube link says its live at 3pm GMT 🤦
Here is the link. Set notifications and hope for the best.
LIVE CONGRESSIONAL UAP HEARINGS LINK
https://www.youtube.com/live/KQ7Dw-739VY?feature=share (https://www.youtube.com/live/KQ7Dw-739VY?feature=share)
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With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.
1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.
2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.
3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.
Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.
Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.
4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.
5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.
The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.
They? What they? There's nothing to prove or show that anyone or anything is actually visiting. That's a leap of faith, based on a hypothesis, which has no supporting factual evidence. Sure anyone can form a hypothesis, then move on to prove it? In the case of alien visitors, we have people who jump to a conclusion and then believe it's truth, without scientific evidence.
You can't make something true by just saying it is, or personally accepting some creative hypothesis as a fact. You need to have evidence, that can be confirmed, peer review, repeatable events, data collection, and some serious skepticism from even the people who want these things to be true, to prove they are true. Not just a wish and a dream.
We have no evidence that UAP or UFOs are alien visitors.
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You need to have evidence, that can be confirmed, peer review, repeatable events, data collection, and some serious skepticism from even the people who want these things to be true, to prove they are true. Not just a wish and a dream.
We have no evidence that UAP or UFOs are alien visitors.
1. You don't need evidence to formulate a hypothesis. A hypothesis is just an educated guess. You start with a hypothesis and then try to either refute it or confirm it. Otherwise, we would still be dwelling in caves.
2. Also, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The fact that the general public hasn't seen compelling evidence yet doesn't have to mean that such evidence doesn't exist. As long as it is classified, you probably won't see it.
3. There may very well be plenty of evidence if what Grusch says is true. He just told the Congress about "non-human biologics".
4. You are free to formulate your own hypotheses explaining reports of craft that apparently defy the current mainstream understanding of physics.
"Alien visitors" (in the sense: "extraterrestrials") are just one hypothesis; there are others, too. I am open to them, unless they have been refuted or don't make sense. It doesn't mean that I accept them as gospel. If they are proven wrong, it's fine with me. I just don't think all the reports about the phenomenon are hoaxes or hallucinations. Some of them: yes, but quite a few seem credible.
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With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.
1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.
2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.
3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.
Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.
Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.
4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.
5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.
The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.
They? What they? There's nothing to prove or show that anyone or anything is actually visiting. That's a leap of faith, based on a hypothesis, which has no supporting factual evidence. Sure anyone can form a hypothesis, then move on to prove it? In the case of alien visitors, we have people who jump to a conclusion and then believe it's truth, without scientific evidence.
You can't make something true by just saying it is, or personally accepting some creative hypothesis as a fact. You need to have evidence, that can be confirmed, peer review, repeatable events, data collection, and some serious skepticism from even the people who want these things to be true, to prove they are true. Not just a wish and a dream.
We have no evidence that UAP or UFOs are alien visitors.
This statement died on its arse. Should of held off after the hearing Peter.
Senator Garcia: Do you believe that UFOs put our pilots at risk and are a risk to national security
Commander Fravor - Yes
Grave - Yes
Grusch - Yes
Garvia - do you believe that the US governmnent are in possession of UAPs
Grusch - Yes
Garcia - Where are they and who has them.
Grusch- I know the exact locations and I have provided the locations to the Inspector General of Inteligance.
Get somw clearances Pete or give up at this point you look rediculous.
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Garvia - do you believe that the US governmnent are in possession of UAPs
Grusch - Yes
Garcia - Where are they and who has them.
Grusch- I know the exact locations and I have provided he locations the Inspector General of Inteligance.
There has been talk for decades about these UAPs in the US, but no one has ever seen one. ;D
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Garvia - do you believe that the US governmnent are in possession of UAPs
Grusch - Yes
Garcia - Where are they and who has them.
Grusch- I know the exact locations and I have provided he locations the Inspector General of Inteligance.
There has been talk for decades about these UAPs in the US, but no one has ever seen one. ;D
Incorrect. No member of the public has seen one in US possession. tens of millions have seen them. Prosaic or otherwise.
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So, the current situation is:
On one side, we have a guy with an impeccable reputation who under oath tells the Congress about a UAP retrieval program. He provides names and addresses to the Inspector General. He is supposed to share classified details behind closed doors with those who have sufficient clearance. This guy is not another Bob Lazar. He is playing by the book and was apparently deemed credible in the Congress.
On the other side, we have denialists who say more or less this: "UAPs are not real, because we are too far away... with our current technology it is not possible to go anywhere except the Moon and Mars, so they can't come here, either. It wouldn't be fair... And anyway, they don't exist, because I have not seen them."
I am still not 100% sure if what Grusch says is true. For all I know, they could all be nuts or this could be some psyops. But what is the likelihood of that?
I will give Grusch the benefit of the doubt, for now.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15aaabl/key_takeaways_from_july_26_hearings/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/15aaabl/key_takeaways_from_july_26_hearings/)
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One very odd thing happened with regard to the Senators that I can't explain. Other than being wrong which is possible obviously ... I'll paraphrase
When Senator Foxx spoke to Grusch she compared his testimony to Kirkpatricks and stated ....
This very contradiction and lack of transparency is what led to a Chinese spy balloons entering our air space. The lack of action by the Biden administration cause widespread fear and confusion and only after (some) days and only after it had travelled the entire continental United States were two jets deployed to shoot it down. This flip flopping ... (from memory) she goes on to say change is needed and with that she yields back her time.
I've watched the streamed versions on various platforms and they all go this way. I and a witness watching it with me don't remember it that way. We have a very clear memory of it and it went like this ... as above for the most part but ....
...and only after it had travelled the entire continental United States were two jets deployed to shoot it down and two other UAP. This innaction caused further panic and at a cost of (I think 70 million she said) Dollars to the American tax payers ... this flip flopping.
The witness remembers money being stated and remembers me ghasping when she said two other UAP and stating... oh sh&t she's gonna bring that up.
I can't find a version where she says this ... but I remember she did. Very curious.
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I can't find a version where she says this ... but I remember she did. Very curious.
ROFL - just another example of confusing memory with facts
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From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.
I have no doubt that there are videos that can't be completely explained, many first-hand reports of pilots and others seeing weird phenomena, or other minor things like that. But actual alien spacecraft or bodies? So far no evidence. At all. If there are really that many alien encounters nowadays there is little possibility that the military or whoever else could cover it up - if someone found a spaceship or part of one or actual alien bodies it would be all over the internet before you could say "TikTok".
Congress should stop wasting their time. If they want to get to the truth, then put on some pressure to declassify what the whistleblowers are talking about and give the world a look. Show me some actual physical evidence and I will believe it, but "whistleblowers" saying they believe it and know a bunch of other guys who swear it's true without providing any actual evidence doesn't cut it. Lots of people believe things that aren't true but will swear up and down that they have seen it with their own eyes. I still remember the bigfoot show where people all over the US are sure they've seen sasquatch but are not deterred by the complete lack of any physical evidence. Somebody on Nextdoor not long ago tried to tell me how they've seen mountain lions in Indiana for decades - even though they have been extinct in the state for more than 100 years (other than the very occasional one that wanders in from North Dakota, which we did have once about a dozen years ago). That person grew up in the country and was sure that mountain lions are there. They really believed it. I'm sure they saw something - a bobcat maybe or a large domestic feline - but it wasn't a mountain lion. Just like the African lion that was recently reported in Germany that turned out most likely to be a wild boar. It's the same with the aliens - just because you've seen something you can't explain doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial (or a terrestrial myth). It would be very easy to confirm - make something available for independent analysis by the global scientific community. All of the technological progress that has occurred during my lifetime (which is getting to be a while now) was mostly the next obvious thing - there are no major jumps I can think of that would have resulted from an injection of alien technology. If the US military is benefitting from alien technology then they need to find some better aliens - we are certainly better than the Russians but only incrementally so, and not really at all when you consider the obscene amounts of money that have been spent. No more congressional showboating, let's see the evidence! If it doesn't exist then stop fooling around.
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From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.
I have no doubt that there are videos that can't be completely explained, many first-hand reports of pilots and others seeing weird phenomena, or other minor things like that. But actual alien spacecraft or bodies? So far no evidence. At all. If there are really that many alien encounters nowadays there is little possibility that the military or whoever else could cover it up - if someone found a spaceship or part of one or actual alien bodies it would be all over the internet before you could say "TikTok".
Congress should stop wasting their time. If they want to get to the truth, then put on some pressure to declassify what the whistleblowers are talking about and give the world a look. Show me some actual physical evidence and I will believe it, but "whistleblowers" saying they believe it and know a bunch of other guys who swear it's true without providing any actual evidence doesn't cut it. Lots of people believe things that aren't true but will swear up and down that they have seen it with their own eyes. I still remember the bigfoot show where people all over the US are sure they've seen sasquatch but are not deterred by the complete lack of any physical evidence. Somebody on Nextdoor not long ago tried to tell me how they've seen mountain lions in Indiana for decades - even though they have been extinct in the state for more than 100 years (other than the very occasional one that wanders in from North Dakota, which we did have once about a dozen years ago). That person grew up in the country and was sure that mountain lions are there. They really believed it. I'm sure they saw something - a bobcat maybe or a large domestic feline - but it wasn't a mountain lion. Just like the African lion that was recently reported in Germany that turned out most likely to be a wild boar. It's the same with the aliens - just because you've seen something you can't explain doesn't mean it's extraterrestrial (or a terrestrial myth). It would be very easy to confirm - make something available for independent analysis by the global scientific community. All of the technological progress that has occurred during my lifetime (which is getting to be a while now) was mostly the next obvious thing - there are no major jumps I can think of that would have resulted from an injection of alien technology. If the US military is benefitting from alien technology then they need to find some better aliens - we are certainly better than the Russians but only incrementally so, and not really at all when you consider the obscene amounts of money that have been spent. No more congressional showboating, let's see the evidence! If it doesn't exist then stop fooling around.
I get what you're saying. And it is all incorrect. You are missing the history of each of the pilots. The history of grusch and the procedures of Congress. You are missing large pieces of the puzzle but asking for answers. Unfortunately those answers require effort on your part to put the hearings into the jaw dropping context that they were. Now I have already explained many of these points in previous posts but unfortunately either you didn't read and watch them or you did and don't believe them. But you know this will happen now whether you believe it or not. At this point it is a train that is coming down the line at us and no matter what your stand point its going to keep coming. Nothing will stop it now. Nothing. This was historic and its becoming more and more obvious that is is entirely meticulously orchestrated.
There will now be a flood of whistle blowers who are going to provide proof to congress regarding David Grushes claims which while you state are made up or hearsay whatever... they are anything but. They are all very true. They are fact no ambiguity. So you can either watch the pilots testimony or recollections online while you walk the dog or wash up or whatever or ... don't. It matters not. It's coming. This has never, ever, happened before. I've followed this area for decades and it has never ever gone down like this. But I get that for you, it's like.having to learn how to use the Internet for the first time.
But if you have twitter follow
Ross coulthart reporter/journalist
Jeremy Corbell journalist
James Fox film maker
George Knapp Journalist
Ryan Graves pilot witnessed fleet on radar East coast
Chad Underwood Pilot filmed Tic Tac video
Alex Dietrich Pilot - witnesses tic tac with Dave Fravor
Dave Fravor Top Gun Instructor
Of the dross that I've sifted through for decades these individuals recollections and research is second to none.
Avoid Mick West you'll be wasting your time the guy is a grifter and a liar.
Enjoy.
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From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.
So, you are relying on hearsay? Watch the hearing yourself. Documentation, including the names of involved people and addresses, has been provided to the Inspector General. Additional details have been provided behind closed doors, as I understand it. A guy who had been conducting an official investigation in this field testified under oath before the Congress. Do you grasp the magnitude of this event? That investigation had been his job, he just presented his findings in the Congress, under oath.
If this was some kind of farce, some kind of prank, then you, dear Americans, have some serious issues in your country and must ask yourself some serious questions.
I have a feeling that even if a giant UFO landed in front of the White House and aliens came out, many denialists would still deny it, because it doesn't fit into their world view. It would be "a trick of the light", or the infamous "swamp gas".
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With the current technology, it would take us more than 50.000 years to reach the nearest solar system, Proxima Centauri, which probably does not have a plant with life. Even with far more advanced technology the voyage would very likely take at least a numer of decades, if not centuries.
1. "The current technology" is the key word here. And that "current technology" is only a few generations ahead of the bicycle... In the grand scheme of things, it is probably incredibly primitive.
I already alllowed for huge advancements in technology. But even Scotty can't change the laws of physics.
2. Einstein's physics superseded Newtonian physics. It is conceivable that for sufficiently advanced beings, Einsteinian physics is below kindergarten level, metaphorically speaking.
It should be noted that for most pratical purposes you can still use the Newtonian equations. You only have to consider relativity when the speed gets really fast or the results need to be extremely accurate. It is very likely that it will be the same with whatever theories might one day replace Einsteins theories. So it will very likely still not be possible for particles with rest mass to exceed or even reach the speed of light.
3. Even within Einsteinian physics, due to time dilation, time flows much more slowly for beings inside a fast-moving craft. Even if they can "only approach" the speed of light, not much time would pass inside the craft even if it has travelled for thousands of light years. From the perspective of a photon travelling at the speed of light, no time has elapsed even after the photon has travelled for billions of light years. For the photon, it happens instantly.
You need to have a speed that approaches light speed really close for that to become of relevance. In order to accelerate particles with rest mass to that speed, you need really huge amounts of energy. CERN uses as much electricity as a city of 290.000 people and that is just to accelerate a few protons and electrons to that speed. Imagine the energy you would need to bring a star ship to that speed.
Also, we don't know anything about their lifespans. Maybe they just send drones, von Neumann's probes or whatever.
Maybe they have working Alcubierre drives. And Alcubierre drive is just one proposed loophole allowing to effectively reach the destination faster than light. Maybe there are other loopholes.
An Alcubierre drives is a kind of warp drive, from what I have read. I never thought I would say that, but: Have you been watching too much Star Trek?
4. If they can operate in at least one more dimension than us (string theory proposes 11 dimensions), then they could instantly reach any point in our 4D spacetime. Our 4D spacetime would be like Flatland to them.
The additonal dimensions are wrapped up at quantum level, though. You cannot travel in them.
5. Watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman to understand why spacetime is not fundamental. It is conceivable that super highly-developed entities do not even travel THROUGH spacetime. This could potentially explain some of the "woo" things about the phenomenon.
The perception of 3 spatial dimensions and 1 temporal dimension is what evolution gave us. It is not absolute and it is not fundamental. It was the minimum required for our survival as a species. Hoffman has showed evidence that evolution hid the rest of reality from our perception.
That does not sound like something I would be interested in watching.
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But then, according to the non-denialists, they just hang around here for decades (or some people believe even for centuries or millenia) without making formal contact and sometimes get seen by some people and sometimes they lose an aircraft for whatever reason and don't seem to be able to retrieve it before the US government seizes it, inspite of their advanced technology.
1. The "losses" may very well be intentional. For example, an intelligence test for "wild primates" on this planet. Humans conduct similar tests with mirrors placed in jungles and forests. Or to cause certain developments on Earth, kind of like the monolith in Space Odyssey 2001.
2. The craft may be some cheap drones that they don't care about.
They can't judge our intelligence from our level of technology and by following our media outlets and reading our scientific papers? Those aliens don't seem to be very intelligent.
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I already alllowed for huge advancements in technology. But even Scotty can't change the laws of physics.
I think your interpretation of the word "huge" is very limited.
That does not sound like something I would be interested in watching.
Then it is your loss. Going out of one's comfort zone and broadening one's horizons can sometimes be enlightening. Enjoy your stay in Plato's Cave.
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An Alcubierre drives is a kind of warp drive, from what I have read. I never thought I would say that, but: Have you been watching too much Star Trek?
Are you ridiculing the theoretical work of a serious physicist, just because it happens to have been inspired by Star Trek? Then go back to the books of Jules Verne and see how science-fiction can sometimes anticipate future technological advancements. Of course, people without imagination will never invent anything.
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An Alcubierre drives is a kind of warp drive, from what I have read. I never thought I would say that, but: Have you been watching too much Star Trek?
Are you ridiculing the theoretical work of a serious physicist, just because it happens to have been inspired by Star Trek? Then go back to the books of Jules Verne and see how science-fiction can sometimes anticipate future technological advancements. Of course, people without imagination will never invent anything.
No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.
It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.
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You need to have a speed that approaches light speed really close for that to become of relevance. In order to accelerate particles with rest mass to that speed, you need really huge amounts of energy. CERN uses as much electricity as a city of 290.000 people and that is just to accelerate a few protons and electrons to that speed. Imagine the energy you would need to bring a star ship to that speed.
Imagine the technology that humans had 500 years ago and compare it with what we have now. Then imagine a civilization or beings that are thousands, millions or billions years ahead of humans. And imagine the technology that they might have. Requirement: imagination.
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No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.
It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.
Yeah, at the moment it is certainly not feasible, no question about it. But that's not the point. The point is that you can think of loopholes in the theory of relativity. You don't violate any existing laws, and still reach the destination faster than light. Alcubierre drive is just one example of a loophole. It is conceivable that an advanced civilization has come up with other, possibly better loopholes including such that they can implement and use.
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No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.
It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.
Yeah, at the moment it is certainly not feasible, no question about it. But that's not the point. The point is that you can think of loopholes in the theory of relativity. You don't violate any existing laws, and still reach the destination faster than light. Alcubierre drive is just one example of a loophole. It is conceivable that an advanced civilization has come up with other, possibly better loopholes including such that they can implement and use.
Well, it looks like we have a fundamentally different view of physics. I am convinced that there are some general laws of physics that will never be broken.
There cannot be a temperature below zero degree Kelvin, there cannot be a perpetual motion machine, two solid objects cannot occupy the same space, you cannot travel back in time and no particle or object with rest mass can reach or even exceed the speed of light.
You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
Now I may be wrong about that, but until I have been proven wrong, I think it is far more likely that the people who say they saw alien star ships misinterpret what they saw or misremember or lie or are delusional. After all, we know that people do those things all the time. So in my opinion, it is a far more likely explanation for what those people say then that we are completely wrong about the laws of physics.
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You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
Imagine explaining to people living 500 years ago the idea of a plane, made of heavy steel, taking onboard hundreds of people and flying them to the other side of the world within hours. They would say similar things to you: "it is not possible, it is insane, only birds and insects can fly because they are lightweight etc." That idea would be beyond their paradigms. And there you have people like Leonardo da Vinci, who thought flying machines were possible. He could conceive things beyond the current paradigms. Most likely, he failed to build a working flying machine, not to mention something like a modern plane, but he was right about the idea of flying in a machine. He was a visionary, even if his contemporaries would laugh at some of his ideas.
People with your attitude never invent anything groundbreaking and they never push the boundaries of human knowledge. They assume that the current paradigms are the pinnacle of wisdom and development and they cannot even imagine anything beyond the paradigms. Happy in their Plato's Cave, never accepting the idea of a reality beyond the cave and convinced that the shadows on the walls are the real thing.
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No, I do not. Inspriration by Star Trek is fine. However, I cannot take the Alcubierre drive particularly serious since it requires the existence of exotic matter or other forms of negative energy fields and even if they would be found, you would still have to produce them in large quantaties, which is unlikely to be feasible.
It is one thing to theorize about the theoretical possibility of such a drive and another to consider it as a pratical solution to the problem of interstellar travel, even for alien civilisations.
Yeah, at the moment it is certainly not feasible, no question about it. But that's not the point. The point is that you can think of loopholes in the theory of relativity. You don't violate any existing laws, and still reach the destination faster than light. Alcubierre drive is just one example of a loophole. It is conceivable that an advanced civilization has come up with other, possibly better loopholes including such that they can implement and use.
Well, it looks like we have a fundamentally different view of physics. I am convinced that there are some general laws of physics that will never be broken.
There cannot be a temperature below zero degree Kelvin, there cannot be a perpetual motion machine, two solid objects cannot occupy the same space, you cannot travel back in time and no particle or object with rest mass can reach or even exceed the speed of light.
You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
Now I may be wrong about that, but until I have been proven wrong, I think it is far more likely that the people who say they saw alien star ships misinterpret what they saw or misremember or lie or are delusional. After all, we know that people do those things all the time. So in my opinion, it is a far more likely explanation for what those people say then that we are completely wrong about the laws of physics.
Perpetual motion machines - planets?
It's been theorised by Bob Lazar. Now you can poo poo Bob Lazar unfortunately his testimony keeps coming true. Element 115 is now achievable.
His door entry hand measuring device can actually be bought on ebay from vintage sellers.
He did work at Los Alamos.
It seem clear we do posses craft although he never claimed that they were driven by aliens but when he examined internally one of the craft the panels and entrance size meant he had to crouch. Looks like we will be finding out because law are being drawn up to bypass secrecy clauses.
He theorised when speaking to Dave Fravor that perhaps our perceptions were that the craft moved fast.
Our perception is based on our cognitive frame rate. Can't remember the number off hand but in our case adrenaline increases the frame rate which slows things down when experiencing trauma. This is a fact I've experienced this myself in near death experiences 3 times. Everything slowed down and allowed me to make, in two of the circumstances life saving decisions. Anyway Bob suggested that they I presume mechanically create a faster frame rate around them in which they choose a location and travel there at less dangerous speeds for physical survival but our perception of the event is physically impossible for our technology because it appears so fast. Flies see us in slow motion and a tortoises frame rate is so low if we move fast we just appear as a blur. Was a cool documentary.
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Following the hearings Dr Sean Kirkpatrick has taken it upon himself to issue a personal statement regarding the allegations made by David Grusch. He makes two errors here ...
1. He should never jave done this because the allegations were levelled at him personally not the AARO organisation as a whole and
2. He lied. Despite the fact that he claims and doubles down at the end of the statement to claim no credible evidence has been seen by AARO it is a proven fact that following his statement stating this before Congress many service personnel who had supplied him and his team with video, radar, and eye witness testimony from a variety of cross referenced platforms (ship, shore and air data) He still claims that ... nothing to see here.
AARO for those who don't know consists of two teams. Each are given the data. They conclude what it is or isn't and then present him with their findings. If the findings are the same he writes a report presenting the facts. If not he sends it back to them until they agree or he makes the casting vote.
This isn't scientific because all that data falls back to one man not a large organisations. Two small teams. He has now employed a NASA contigent to "enhance" their findings using better sensors.
The reason this is hogwash is because until the chinese spey balloons many sensors had their sensitivity turned down because they kept being set off by UAPs. It was the Whitehouse who mandated the sensors be turned up.
Secondly Kirkpatrick isn't stating that UAPs don't exist although that's the implication.
His evidence and subsequent conclusions are only from a National Security perspective. Thats his mandate. If they deem it not an NS issue he categorises it as a null value
a NS issue is subjective as the hearings showed. Congress does not agree with Kirpatrick. So keep your eye out for his resignation before he's booted. Its coming. Kirpatricks butt hurt response.
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From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.
So, you are relying on hearsay? Watch the hearing yourself. Documentation, including the names of involved people and addresses, has been provided to the Inspector General. Additional details have been provided behind closed doors, as I understand it. A guy who had been conducting an official investigation in this field testified under oath before the Congress. Do you grasp the magnitude of this event? That investigation had been his job, he just presented his findings in the Congress, under oath.
so? how do you know any facts were revealed behind closed doors? were you there? or just more hearsay. what are their results of those other investigations? just a report on an imnvestigaion doesn't mean it found anything you claim. what actual evidence has been presented to show extraterrestrial visits other than hearsay that a friend saw something? -- i've never questioned the honesty of most reports; but just because someone has a firm belief, and testifies under oath is irrelevant in terms of providing facts. sworn testimony from eyewitnesses has resulted in deaths of many who were innocent.
and your continued descent into ad hominem attacks on what you call denialists just shows how weak your claims are.
If this was some kind of farce, some kind of prank, then you, dear Americans, have some serious issues in your country and must ask yourself some serious questions....
unfortunately that's been true of other congressional investigations such as the many Benghazi hearings that turned up no evidence of wrongdoing, or the continued refusal of many right-wing congressfolk to accept the 2020 election as valid
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.../ Lots of people believe things that aren't true but will swear up and down that they have seen it with their own eyes. I still remember the bigfoot show where people all over the US are...
one of my favorites was a busload of folk who saw a 'squatch' so close they complained of the horrible stench it gave off. trouble was it was just a prank and when the hoaxers finally came forward (with
the bigfoot sut they'd used) they also revealed they hadn't used any scent
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You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
...
People with your attitude never invent anything groundbreaking and they never push the boundaries of human knowledge. They assume that the current paradigms are the pinnacle of wisdom and development and they cannot even imagine anything beyond the paradigms. Happy in their Plato's Cave, never accepting the idea of a reality beyond the cave and convinced that the shadows on the walls are the real thing.
once more you presume to know the thoughts of others. statements j ust in the last day show such to be demonstrably false - no skeptic here as made the assumptions you attribute to them - if you still think they have, please show such quotes. meanwhile here's one for you:
“If the facts are against you, argue the law. If the law is against you, argue the facts. If the law and the facts are against you, pound the table and yell like hell”
― Carl Sandburg
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...
Our perception is based on our cognitive frame rate. Can't remember the number off hand but in our case adrenaline increases the frame rate which slows things down when experiencing trauma. ... Anyway Bob suggested that they I presume mechanically create a faster frame rate around them in which they choose a location and travel there at less dangerous speeds for physical survival but our perception of the event is physically impossible for our technology because it appears so fast. Flies see us in slow motion and a tortoises frame rate is so low if we move fast we just appear as a blur. Was a cool documentary.
you're confusing (again) PERCEPTION with reality. a change in frame rate doesn't actually have any effect on the real world. as you admit, things "just appear" differently.
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so? how do you know any facts were revealed behind closed doors? were you there?
Watch the hearing yourself. Some very specific questions were asked. And Grusch's answers were that he would gladly provide detailed answers and documentation right after the public part of the hearing ends. Either the Congress organized some clown show, or there is at least some truth in what Grusch said.
what are their results of those other investigations? just a report on an imnvestigaion doesn't mean it found anything you claim. what actual evidence has been presented to show extraterrestrial visits other than hearsay that a friend saw something?
Did you expect that Grusch would show up with someone like Mr Spock or Chewbacca at the hearing? He was ready to provide in a secure environment addresses where the craft can be found, as well as a list of names of people who are friendly to the investigation/disclosure and those who are "hostile". Check mate, if true.
He seems to be playing by the book and doesn't reveal classified info related to the security of the US publicly. Fair enough, as far as I'm concerned. If that additional classified info was true/credible, we should see further developments in the near future. I am looking forward to it.
-- i've never questioned the honesty of most reports; but just because someone has a firm belief, and testifies under oath is irrelevant in terms of providing facts. sworn testimony from eyewitnesses has resulted in deaths of many who were innocent.
If he has really provided proof that the US government has killed people to keep the thing secret, that is really serious. We will see.
and your continued descent into ad hominem attacks on what you call denialists just shows how weak your claims are.
I think you are over-sensitive or are imagining things that are not there.
Do you even know what "my claims" and my position are? I have never claimed that what Grusch says must be true. I listed three possibilities that I see. But it is an interesting and important topic. And the fact that someone in Grusch's positition has come out with such bold claims is literally an earthquake in the field of UFOs. For now, I will give him the benefit of the doubt and I am looking forward to further developments.
And my main position in this thread can be summarized shortly: "guys, open your minds and broaden your horizons, so that you don't experience an ontological shock when the paradigm shifts".
Open-minded skepticism is great, but in this thread I see lots of denialism combined with ridicule. You don't need to accept the extraterrestrial, extratemporal, ultraterrestrial or interdimensional hypotheses. I honestly don't know if any of them is true. But if you strictly reject them, then the onus is on you to try to come up with a better explanation for the reports of unexplained anomalies. And if we stick just to the unexplained cases officially presented by the US military, simply dismissing those reports is very lame.
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you're confusing (again) PERCEPTION with reality.
Please watch some videos with Professor Donald Hoffman on YouTube, because I am sure that you're doing the same, all the time (just in a different way).
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Pressure mounts as the Department of Defence confirms that the leaked letter allegedly from Sean Kirkpatrick head of AARO is confirmed as written by his own hand. His claim that Grusch didn't work for or with AARO is proven disingenuous as it was Gruschs job to liaise with them in his job title which was to investigate and catalogue all special projects to brief Congress. Doh! And how did he publish this tantrum ... on a linkedin page lol.
Further it has been shown that Kirkpatrick failed to share pertinent satellite imagery with Congress. Presumably that shows UAPs as this was the context in which they were required.
As I said Kirpatricks days are numbered. I imagine he will step aside rather soon. With a nice handshake no doubt 🙄
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Body Language experts gives his analysis of Grusch, Fravor and Graves testimony and conclusion.
https://youtu.be/fhH0U6O35-U
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Various amendments have been proposed to the Whitehouse and have been refused. This one by Senator Schumer was not.
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It's been theorised by Bob Lazar. Now you can poo poo Bob Lazar unfortunately his testimony keeps coming true. Element 115 is now achievable.
His door entry hand measuring device can actually be bought on ebay from vintage sellers.
He did work at Los Alamos.
Many Poh Poh Lazar.
Stanton Friedman (the original Roswell guy) has attacked Lazars scientific credibility. Friedman is a UFO researcher and advocate. Friedman also researched Lazars claims of being a MIT Physics graduate. Lazar can't provide one item that would show he went to MIT or give the name of one person that he was classmates with, that could validate his story. The obvious claim is, the government removed all of his records. Yet, Lazar has no photos, no acquaintances, no one remembers him, no class photos, no yearbook, no phone book, and a long list of things that would exist to prove Lazars claims.
What records research has found is that Lazar wasn't living in Cambridge, MA, and filed for bankruptcy at the same time, which Lazar has given various dates.
If he had element 115 it's not the same as the real element 115. When asked he has had various answers. One is he lost it, while the other is if he did, he wouldn't admit it.
My simple definition of Lazar and his claims is, slippery.
http://www.classicufo.com/blog/2013/02/the-bob-lazar-conundrum-is-there-any-truth-to-lazars-claims/ (http://www.classicufo.com/blog/2013/02/the-bob-lazar-conundrum-is-there-any-truth-to-lazars-claims/)
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I get what you're saying. And it is all incorrect. You are missing the history of each of the pilots. The history of grusch and the procedures of Congress. You are missing large pieces of the puzzle but asking for answers. Unfortunately those answers require effort on your part to put the hearings into the jaw dropping context that they were. Now I have already explained many of these points in previous posts but unfortunately either you didn't read and watch them or you did and don't believe them. But you know this will happen now whether you believe it or not. At this point it is a train that is coming down the line at us and no matter what your stand point its going to keep coming. Nothing will stop it now. Nothing. This was historic and its becoming more and more obvious that is is entirely meticulously orchestrated.
There will now be a flood of whistle blowers who are going to provide proof to congress regarding David Grushes claims which while you state are made up or hearsay whatever... they are anything but. They are all very true. They are fact no ambiguity. So you can either watch the pilots testimony or recollections online while you walk the dog or wash up or whatever or ... don't. It matters not. It's coming. This has never, ever, happened before. I've followed this area for decades and it has never ever gone down like this. But I get that for you, it's like.having to learn how to use the Internet for the first time.
Nothing I said was incorrect - all of the "evidence" presented so far has been people saying they know somebody who's seen something or someone who saw something they couldn't explain. And they can't say anything more because it's classified. I'm sure there are many pilots who have seen things they can't explain, but "I don't know what that was" does not equal "aliens". I agree this level of openness has never happened before but so far it's all added up to a whole lot of nothing. All they have to do to prove it is bring out one of the dozens of alien spacecraft that are supposedly in storage somewhere or show us a body. And by "us" I mean the worldwide scientific community who can make an independent evaluation of authenticity. Short of that, hearsay is what Grush has been providing, not me.
The land area of the Russian Federation is about twice that of the US. If aliens are crash landing randomly all over Earth, then the Russians should have twice as many artifacts as the US. Yet it seems in Russia all the "evidence" of aliens is about as solid as in the US - somebody saw something they can't explain. Not very convincing.
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From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.
So, you are relying on hearsay? Watch the hearing yourself. Documentation, including the names of involved people and addresses, has been provided to the Inspector General. Additional details have been provided behind closed doors, as I understand it. A guy who had been conducting an official investigation in this field testified under oath before the Congress. Do you grasp the magnitude of this event? That investigation had been his job, he just presented his findings in the Congress, under oath.
I've seen enough of it. Hearsay is what Grush has provided, not me. Looks like Congress is going to have a special investigation so maybe more will come out that way. However, I suspect none of these mythical alien craft will appear. I have no doubt the people testifying believe what they are saying, they just haven't provided any solid proof.
Why is all of this confined to the US? What about Canada, China. Brazil, Russia and other countries with large land areas? Surely they must have been the recipients of alien spacecraft - many more than the US - yet why have we not seen aliens rolled out in those countries? When people in other countries provide "evidence", it's always of the same type - somebody saw something they can't explain. Nothing tangible. Surely the US military couldn't classify materials collected in all those other countries, could they?
If this was some kind of farce, some kind of prank, then you, dear Americans, have some serious issues in your country
You haven't figured that out yet? We have much more serious problems than aliens - a large part of the population thinks the last election was stolen, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary (and none to support their conclusion) and they support someone for President as a supposed champion of democracy who's stated goal is to become a fascist dictator. Aliens are the least of our problems.
[I have a feeling that even if a giant UFO landed in front of the White House and aliens came out, many denialists would still deny it, because it doesn't fit into their world view. It would be "a trick of the light", or the infamous "swamp gas".
That is where you are dead wrong. Those of us who are skeptical of alien contact are not that way because of a world view but because of a lack of evidence. Provide even one alien craft or a body of an extraterrestrial that can be verified by independent scientific analysis and most of us will accept it. But if the only "evidence" is that somebody saw something they can't explain then that doesn't cut it. We will see what comes out of the continuing congressional hearings but I wouldn't hold my breath that they will uncover anything substantive - I just don't think there is anything more to provide.
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From what I've heard of the congressional hearings so far they have been vastly underwhelming. It seems to be three "whistleblowers" who all believe that we have been visited by aliens, and at least one of them said they know 40 other guys who swear on their grandmothers' graves that they have seen alien craft and/or biologicals. And that is it - no proof of any kind, no documentation, no testimony from any of the people who supposedly have seen these things except second- or third-hand reports. And they can't say any more because it's classified. So what is the point? It all seems like a monumental waste of time to me.
So, you are relying on hearsay? Watch the hearing yourself. Documentation, including the names of involved people and addresses, has been provided to the Inspector General. Additional details have been provided behind closed doors, as I understand it. A guy who had been conducting an official investigation in this field testified under oath before the Congress. Do you grasp the magnitude of this event? That investigation had been his job, he just presented his findings in the Congress, under oath.
I've seen enough of it. Hearsay is what Grush has provided, not me. Looks like Congress is going to have a special investigation so maybe more will come out that way. However, I suspect none of these mythical alien craft will appear. I have no doubt the people testifying believe what they are saying, they just haven't provided any solid proof.
Why is all of this confined to the US? What about Canada, China. Brazil, Russia and other countries with large land areas? Surely they must have been the recipients of alien spacecraft - many more than the US - yet why have we not seen aliens rolled out in those countries? When people in other countries provide "evidence", it's always of the same type - somebody saw something they can't explain. Nothing tangible. Surely the US military couldn't classify materials collected in all those other countries, could they?
If this was some kind of farce, some kind of prank, then you, dear Americans, have some serious issues in your country
You haven't figured that out yet? We have much more serious problems than aliens - a large part of the population thinks the last election was stolen, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary (and none to support their conclusion) and they support someone for President as a supposed champion of democracy who's stated goal is to become a fascist dictator. Aliens are the least of our problems.
[I have a feeling that even if a giant UFO landed in front of the White House and aliens came out, many denialists would still deny it, because it doesn't fit into their world view. It would be "a trick of the light", or the infamous "swamp gas".
That is where you are dead wrong. Those of us who are skeptical of alien contact are not that way because of a world view but because of a lack of evidence. Provide even one alien craft or a body of an extraterrestrial that can be verified by independent scientific analysis and most of us will accept it. But if the only "evidence" is that somebody saw something they can't explain then that doesn't cut it. We will see what comes out of the continuing congressional hearings but I wouldn't hold my breath that they will uncover anything substantive - I just don't think there is anything more to provide.
I'm going to quote you here but also respond here to your response above to save pillars of quote.
You are incorrect I am afraid. Totally and completely.
Grusch has given public testimony under oath. That is evidence. As has Graves and Fravor. They aren't the only ones that have given testimony either. More ro come on that.
6 witnesses were due to testify. But 3 were encouraged not to either by their current employers or other means. This is being investigated.
Regarding Grusch and hearsay please stop saying that. His testimony is not hearsay. That's a legal term as well as social. He bypassed the legal issue of hearsay because he is a witness himself.
When he gave testimony under oath he testified to seeing documents and reports pertaining to crash retreival programmes and non human biologics and despite insincere mocking by some not just here, about rabbits and dolphins, he didnt mean that for certain. We don't get a congressional hearing for earth based animals.
*********Those reports were provided, supplied, given, shown, handed, passed, issued, etc .. to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community *********
At this point he found them credible and urgent and he has gone on record stating firmly that this does NOT mean threats to Grusch as part of his whistle blower complaint. That's dealt with by another department.
Credible and Urgent.
At this point your opinion, mine and anyone else's becomes irrelevant. It doesn't matter about people hand wringing. It doesn't matter if they believe. It doesn't matter what Joe Biden thinks. It doesn't matter what the press say. Because the IGIC hit the big red button and the sh#t hit the fan with such a thud it sent it through a wall.
Since then so much has happened. So hand wring away lol its irrelevant. When you state nothings happened again you are incorrect. I'm not going to list it. It's very public but not if you rely on MSM. There is a very obvious lack of reporting anything. In fact Sky news ONLY reported Kirkpatricks retort. That's it. Nothing more.
But I believe what is happening next is getting Grusch in a skiff. The issue at present is there is a significant bun fight going on trying to get clearances to get him in a skif and the Pentagon fighting tooth and nail to stop it.
Is that what happens when it's sweety wrappers, Bart Simpson balloons, light fittings and pan lids?
This was the latest attempt ... wheel out a stooge ...
Republican Mike Turner gives an interview to Fox news. It's all about China until she asks him about UAP hearings ... 5.40 onwards. He claims David Grusch doesn't know what he is talking about 😳 lol. But then Senator Mike turner's financial records were quickly sought and who are among his largest contributors
https://youtu.be/Lz9FD6zJd5w
Lockhead Martin
BAE systems
Rathion to name a few.
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...
However in all fairness, to the other side: Absence of evidence in not evidence of absence.
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However : Absence of evidence of an extraordinary claim is not worth considering..
It's just logic and I believe you will agree. No one can prove that something claimed, does not actually exist. But as we have both tried to explain, someone making a claim, is the one with the burden of proof that their claim is real.
No one can prove something is not real. But that's what the UFO believers keep repeating. Prove it's not real! Can't be done.
I see no answer to the complication that Stanton Friedman called Lazar a complete fraud. Who do we believe? Friedman the scientist behind Roswell and the detailed investigation, or a questionable, inconsistent source for an ever changing story of the US Government backward engineered space craft and has the help of aliens from Zeta Reticuli?
And keeping things light, to my, where is the Bermuda Triangle question? Can someone just give me the general boundaries? Here's the accepted answer:
The Bermuda Triangle is a large area of ocean between Florida, Puerto Rico, and Bermuda. Over the last few centuries, it's thought that dozens of ships and planes have disappeared under mysterious circumstances in the area, earning it the nickname "The Devil's Triangle."
People have even gone so far as to speculate that it's an area of extra-terrestrial activity or that there is some bizarre natural scientific cause for the region to be hazardous
When checking the disappearances, wrecks and events, the Bermuda Triangle is no more dangerous than any other oceans on Earth. An interesting statistic for those who wonder, during the same time frame (the mid-1940s to mid-1980s), many more small planes have crashed on the US mainland than have disappeared in the Bermuda Triangle.
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Attempt Two ... as predicted wheel out the second stooge. Renowned debunker without any proof who regularly features to give expert testimony outside his field of expertise and does not believe in other civilisations traversing the universe
Seth Shostak - who is the Senior astronomer for the SETI institute. Search for Extra Terrestrial Inteligence.
"SHREDS WHISTLE BLOWERS CLAIMS"
One wonders what clearances Seth is going to imply he has this time.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/seti-institute-shreds-ufo-whistleblowers-210032638.html (https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.yahoo.com/amphtml/seti-institute-shreds-ufo-whistleblowers-210032638.html)
Well they claim he is a real alien hunter who very much believes in aliens. Clearly they haven't followed Seths continuous efforts to claim otherwise.
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"Oh No, Ross and Carrie" podcast will be doing a break down of the hearings in the next couple of weeks. Looking forward to a good laugh.
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Perpetual motion machines - planets?
Planets are not perpetual motion machines. They lose energy when they do work like sending out gravitons or creating tidal forces.
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You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
Imagine explaining to people living 500 years ago the idea of a plane, made of heavy steel, taking onboard hundreds of people and flying them to the other side of the world within hours. They would say similar things to you: "it is not possible, it is insane, only birds and insects can fly because they are lightweight etc." That idea would be beyond their paradigms. And there you have people like Leonardo da Vinci, who thought flying machines were possible. He could conceive things beyond the current paradigms. Most likely, he failed to build a working flying machine, not to mention something like a modern plane, but he was right about the idea of flying in a machine. He was a visionary, even if his contemporaries would laugh at some of his ideas.
This is not at all comparable. 500 years ago people had basically no knowledge at of phyiscs as we understand it.
Since we began to really accumulate scientific knowledge, new knowledge was in most cases incremental, not really fundamentally replacing old knowledge, at least not basic knowledge like how things move. Relativity did not significantly change our understanding about how things move at non-relativistic speeds and quantum mechanics did not change how macroscopic objects behave. It is very unlikely that future discoveries will change the fact that object with rest mass cannot reach or exceed the speed of light.
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You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
Imagine explaining to people living 500 years ago the idea of a plane, made of heavy steel, taking onboard hundreds of people and flying them to the other side of the world within hours. They would say similar things to you: "it is not possible, it is insane, only birds and insects can fly because they are lightweight etc." That idea would be beyond their paradigms. And there you have people like Leonardo da Vinci, who thought flying machines were possible. He could conceive things beyond the current paradigms. Most likely, he failed to build a working flying machine, not to mention something like a modern plane, but he was right about the idea of flying in a machine. He was a visionary, even if his contemporaries would laugh at some of his ideas.
This is not at all comparable. 500 years ago people had basically no knowledge at of phyiscs as we understand it.
Since we began to really accumulate scientific knowledge, new knowledge was in most cases incremental, not really fundamentally replacing old knowledge, at least not basic knowledge like how things move. Relativity did not significantly change our understanding about how things move at non-relativistic speeds and quantum mechanics did not change how macroscopic objects behave. It is very unlikely that future discoveries will change the fact that object with rest mass cannot reach or exceed the speed of light.
It is outrageously arrogant to reject the possibility of any significant paradigm shifts. A classic Plato's Cave attitude...
We only started to accumulate knowledge that can explain a tiny part of the wider reality that evolution has made accessible to us. Beyond that, we don't know much. The model of metaphysical materialism can never explain how certain configurations of atoms gain self-awareness or perceive qualia. That is the end of the road for materialism.
Just watch some interviews with Donald Hoffman or read stuff published by the scientists from the Essentia Foundation to realize how deep the rabbit hole goes.
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You can theorize about loopholess in the theory of relativity all you want, but I don't think they exist and in the end it is just wishful thinking that there may be any, much less loopholes that make it feasible for an object the size of a star ship to exceed the speed of light and that without using forces that would destroy the starship and kill the travellers.
Imagine explaining to people living 500 years ago the idea of a plane, made of heavy steel, taking onboard hundreds of people and flying them to the other side of the world within hours. They would say similar things to you: "it is not possible, it is insane, only birds and insects can fly because they are lightweight etc." That idea would be beyond their paradigms. And there you have people like Leonardo da Vinci, who thought flying machines were possible. He could conceive things beyond the current paradigms. Most likely, he failed to build a working flying machine, not to mention something like a modern plane, but he was right about the idea of flying in a machine. He was a visionary, even if his contemporaries would laugh at some of his ideas.
This is not at all comparable. 500 years ago people had basically no knowledge at of phyiscs as we understand it.
Since we began to really accumulate scientific knowledge, new knowledge was in most cases incremental, not really fundamentally replacing old knowledge, at least not basic knowledge like how things move. Relativity did not significantly change our understanding about how things move at non-relativistic speeds and quantum mechanics did not change how macroscopic objects behave. It is very unlikely that future discoveries will change the fact that object with rest mass cannot reach or exceed the speed of light.
It is outrageously arrogant to reject the possibility of any significant paradigm shifts. A classic Plato's Cave attitude...
I did not reject the possibility of significant paradigm shifts at all.
Relativity was a paradigm shift, but it did not change how we calculate the speed of cars or the focres that drive them.
Quantum mechanics was a paradigm shift, but it did not change our understandig how macroscopic objects behave.
There will be likely be further paradigm shifts. For example. the standard model of particle physic has far too many unexplained constants to be the last word and quantum mechanics and gravitation have yet to be unified. The theories that will answer that will change our understanding of the universe, but it is still very unlikely that they will allow objects with rest mass to reach or exceed the speed of light. Please note that I wrote "very unlikely", not "completely impossible". Perhaps science will surprise us all, but for the time being, I cannot take seriously any notion that relies on star ships exceeding the speed of light. Unless it takes place in a fictional universe.
We only started to accumulate knowledge that can explain a tiny part of the wider reality that evolution has made accessible to us. Beyond that, we don't know much. The model of metaphysical materialism can never explain how certain configurations of atoms gain self-awareness or perceive qualia. That is the end of the road for materialism.
Just watch some interviews with Donald Hoffman or read stuff published by the scientists from the Essentia Foundation to realize how deep the rabbit hole goes.
I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
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I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.
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This very contradiction and lack of transparency is what led to a Chinese spy balloons entering our air space. The lack of action by the Biden administration cause widespread fear and confusion and only after (some) days and only after it had travelled the entire continental United States were two jets deployed to shoot it down. This flip flopping ... (from memory) she goes on to say change is needed and with that she yields back her time.
This is the policy of the Democrats, the policy of ostriches. The Democrats have been unable to give Ukraine fighter jets and missiles for two years now.
(https://r6z4d5g2.rocketcdn.me/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/straus_golovu-v-pesok.jpg)
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In short, some gossip and rumors. When will society be shown at least one humanoid or at least one extraterrestrial ship?
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I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.
I feel free to call out obvious nonsense and I'm not inclined to get in an argument about his guys notions, because if you reject the concept of reality itself, then we have no common ground and any argument is futile.
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I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.
I feel free to call out obvious nonsense and I'm not inclined to get in an argument about his guys notions, because if you reject the concept of reality itself, then we have no common ground and any argument is futile.
Where does he reject the concept of reality? Hoffman never did it.
You just assume that your perceptions are the reality. And he has evidence and a mathematical model supporting that it doesn't have to be the case.
There is a reality beyond the perceptions, but the perceptions are not an accurate image of the reality.
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I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.
I feel free to call out obvious nonsense and I'm not inclined to get in an argument about his guys notions, because if you reject the concept of reality itself, then we have no common ground and any argument is futile.
Where does he reject the concept of reality? Hoffman never did it.
It is even in the title of one of his books: "The case against reality"
You just assume that your perceptions are the reality. And he has evidence and a mathematical model supporting that it doesn't have to be the case.
There is a reality beyond the perceptions, but the perceptions are not an accurate image of the reality.
You can have mathematical models about everything. It does not means that they have anything to do with realtity.
And I know that we cannot directly perceive the whole reality, as for example we can only perceive electro-magnetic radiation of certain wave lengths, but from what I understand, this is not what he means and he rejects also what we can measure with scientific instruments as reality.
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I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.
I feel free to call out obvious nonsense and I'm not inclined to get in an argument about his guys notions, because if you reject the concept of reality itself, then we have no common ground and any argument is futile.
Where does he reject the concept of reality? Hoffman never did it.
It is even in the title of one of his books: "The case against reality"
LOL. As the saying goes, never judge the book by the cover. The title is catchy and provoking, but he never rejected the concept of reality. But whatever reality is, it is most likely not what you perceive. All your life are basically perceptions...
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And I know that we cannot directly perceive the whole reality, as for example we can only perceive electro-magnetic radiation of certain wave lengths, but from what I understand, this is not what he means and he rejects also what we can measure with scientific instruments as reality.
Whatever you measure with scientific instruments and the instruments themselves are filtered through the screen of our perceptions. Scientific instruments didn't exist at the beginning of evolution. By the time we invented them, evolution had already given us the virtual reality headset or the desktop interface as he calls it. So, the instruments we create are part of that interface, and do not exist outside of it. You can measure aspects of the perceived reality, but the act of measurement will be a perception in itself. Evolution showed us only the categories of things important for our survival. Anything else is hidden. It is difficult to build instruments for aspects of reality that you can't even imagine.
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And I know that we cannot directly perceive the whole reality, as for example we can only perceive electro-magnetic radiation of certain wave lengths, but from what I understand, this is not what he means and he rejects also what we can measure with scientific instruments as reality.
Whatever you measure with scientific instruments and the instruments themselves are filtered through the screen of our perceptions. Scientific instruments didn't exist at the beginning of evolution. By the time we invented them, evolution had already given us the virtual reality headset or the desktop interface as he calls it. So, the instruments we create are part of that interface, and do not exist outside of it. You can measure aspects of the perceived reality, but the act of measurement will be a perception in itself. Evolution showed us only the categories of things important for our survival. Anything else is hidden.
That's what I meant. As long as you believe in stuff like that, we have no common ground, as we live in different realities.
It is difficult to build instruments for aspects of reality that you can't perceive.
It is not that hard to build an instrument that can detect X-rays.
Or an instrument that can receive radio waves. They are called radios and have been quite popular since their invention.
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And I know that we cannot directly perceive the whole reality, as for example we can only perceive electro-magnetic radiation of certain wave lengths, but from what I understand, this is not what he means and he rejects also what we can measure with scientific instruments as reality.
Whatever you measure with scientific instruments and the instruments themselves are filtered through the screen of our perceptions. Scientific instruments didn't exist at the beginning of evolution. By the time we invented them, evolution had already given us the virtual reality headset or the desktop interface as he calls it. So, the instruments we create are part of that interface, and do not exist outside of it. You can measure aspects of the perceived reality, but the act of measurement will be a perception in itself. Evolution showed us only the categories of things important for our survival. Anything else is hidden.
That's what I meant. As long as you believe in stuff like that, we have no common ground, as we live in different relaties.
It is difficult to build instruments for aspects of reality that you can't perceive.
It is not that hard to build an instrument that can detect X-rays.
Or an instrument that can receive radio waves. They are called radios and have been quite popular since their invention.
I corrected it to "aspects of reality that you can't even imagine" - as this is what I meant. First, someone had to imagine those concepts, and only then the instruments could be built.
And that goes back to earlier posts and imagining things beyond the current paradigm.
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I'd rather attend a meeting of the Flat Earth Society than deal with that nonsense.
In other words, in the absence of arguments, you resort to insults.
as opposed to your statement yesterday-- "It is outrageously arrogant to reject the possibility of any significant paradigm shifts. A classic Plato's Cave attitude..."
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President Obama discusses ufos through the years
Jimmy Kimel 2015 - https://youtu.be/EYzRY2XpLBk
James Cordon 2021 - https://youtu.be/xp6Ph5iTIgc
Always humour and levity but there were two ocassions where he didn't laugh and made it clear initially or overtly that it wasn't a joke.
Ellen 2016 - https://youtu.be/rZnXbPZ6R3w
Steven Colbert 2020 - https://youtu.be/V-Q8MFjlQ2Y 9.45 onwards
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Captain Kirk
Actor William Shatner gives his opinion about the latest UAP hearings. Rediculous he says ... https://youtu.be/CbL6iRkTvz0
William Shatner the "singer" ... apparently ... Do not operate heavy machinery, or you are a person of a nervous disposition or if you are suffering mental health issues. Going where no man has gone before, with the hope that he may not find his way back I give you the one, the only William Shatner and Rocket Man
https://youtu.be/8wI4jMxveyI
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Captain Kirk
Actor William Shatner gives his opinion about the latest UAP hearings. Rediculous he says ... https://youtu.be/CbL6iRkTvz0
William Shatner the "singer" ... apparently ... Do not operate heavy machinery, or you are a person of a nervous disposition or if you are suffering mental health issues. Going where no man has gone before, with the hope that he may not find his way back I give you the one, the only William Shatner and Rocket Man
https://youtu.be/8wI4jMxveyI
More of your personal attacks and insults for anybody who doesn't agree with you. But you are hurt if anybody disagrees with your brainwashed tripe.
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Perpetual motion machines - planets?
Planets are not perpetual motion machines. They lose energy when they do work like sending out gravitons or creating tidal forces.
You are arguing with someone who has no idea of what science is, but he believes his fake UFO SciFi trash.
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Perpetual motion machines - planets?
Planets are not perpetual motion machines. They lose energy when they do work like sending out gravitons or creating tidal forces.
You are arguing with someone who has no idea of what science is, but he believes his fake UFO SciFi trash.
That's a shame. And not a little infantile. Not enough hugs as a child?
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Perpetual motion machines - planets?
Planets are not perpetual motion machines. They lose energy when they do work like sending out gravitons or creating tidal forces.
You are arguing with someone who has no idea of what science is, but he believes his fake UFO SciFi trash.
That's a shame. And not a little infantile. Not enough hugs as a child?
your constant insults to the person, rather than the ideas, shows just how little you know (or care?) about science, and how little actual support you have for your fantasies
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Recent debate between:
Michael Shermer - 'The' Skeptic
Destiny - political commentator and utuber
Daniel Pinchbeck - Author and conspiracy theorist
Bill Ottman - Co founder of Minds/freedom of info activist
James Fox - UAP researcher and film maker
https://youtu.be/zzgiM5RgIhU
The debate discusses the fallout and reaction to the recent congressional hearings and where things stand now. I don't agree with Shermer but you cannot deny he has a fairly even hand as a skeptic but what is hilarious is that James Fox who is a total gentleman and an exhaustive researcher loses it. For anyone who does follow James, he just does not attack. He is always very even-handed and open minded. Not so in this debate. But why ...
... on another more recent podcast yesterday he got pinned down about his involvement. He was asked if he knew of anything coning very soon that is going to kick this door open further. His reposnse was yes. When asked what it was his response was that he couldn't say because he was involved in this one. Which implies that Christopher Mellon is involved. So this interview is with him knowing much more about whats coming and he can't say anything about it.
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Ross Coulhart and Bryce Zabel explain some of the developments and events since the UAP congressional hearings.
https://youtu.be/0oVa3xU34Dk
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Loreto De Mainas Peru - news reports began yesterday of footage of tribes running around firing weapons into the forest at night. A request for support was sent out by the villages because they were under attack. Translations have been slow because they speak Spanish with a slight local variation according to some. Original video which was shared widely.
https://twitter.com/blackdragon1802/status/1687359847132438528?s=20 (https://twitter.com/blackdragon1802/status/1687359847132438528?s=20)
Initially this was thought to be drug farmers attacking the villagers but after more video reports were uploaded the reports took a turn for the bizarre.
The villagerrs had been attacked by 7 foot tall aliens wearing some sort of silver suit and ... floating ... along on some sort of small silver disk with red lights coming from it. Despite being shot repeatedly although being knocked down they soon got back up. They took a teenage girl hostage when cornered and cut her throat. As more villagers arrived they attempted to capture one and they chased them through the forest but they escaped in their craft. This has been happening for a few nights.
in combination with this the navy and local authorities have dispatched personnel to the village to investigate and news paper reports have been removed as have utube clips. This long version of what was released initially shows the report.
https://youtu.be/HBHIZ5MSyQ4 if you can't speak Spanish go to CC and select subtitles and in settings select your language or auto generate English. Upload from 4 fay's ago
Further reports have surfaced of people being found along the river line dead with their faces cut off.
Make of it what you will.
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The villagerrs had been attacked by 7 foot tall aliens wearing some sort of silver suit and ... floating ... along on some sort of small silver disk with red lights coming from it. Despite being shot repeatedly although being knocked down they soon got back up. They took a teenage girl hostage when cornered and cut her throat. As more villagers arrived they attempted to capture one and they chased them through the forest but they escaped in their craft. This has been happening for a few nights.
So those aliens travel at least dozens, probably hundreds or even thousands of light-years and then have nothing better to do than to harass and kill a few villagers in South America?
I have heard better cover stories for crimes actually commited by humans.
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The villagerrs had been attacked by 7 foot tall aliens wearing some sort of silver suit and ... floating ... along on some sort of small silver disk with red lights coming from it. Despite being shot repeatedly although being knocked down they soon got back up. They took a teenage girl hostage when cornered and cut her throat. As more villagers arrived they attempted to capture one and they chased them through the forest but they escaped in their craft. This has been happening for a few nights.
So those aliens travel at least dozens, probably hundreds or even thousands of light-years and then have nothing better to do than to harass and kill a few villagers in South America?
I have heard better cover stories for crimes acutally commited by humans.
I know right. It's an odd one. Though there appears to be a large number of witnesses ... and armed to the teeth. Drug cartels snatching people for labour seems far more likely an explanation. But why not say that. Why go for "aliens" of all things. And to be so specific about their appearance. And as you say - motive. We don't contain anything that can't be obtained anywhere else. We are an unlikely a food source. And I've followed this stuff for decades. Large aliens isn't usual. Though the family in Las Vegas reported the same large aliens.
Well because of the hearings there's more footage and or fake stuff than you can look at. But this one was interesting.
Resource useage here was odd. Bullets used extensively. There were several videos showing this. Torches too burning batteries. No defensive choices made. They went on the attack and gave chase. That's an unusual tactical choice.
Some daylight footage following the event showing officials arriving at the village
https://twitter.com/blackdragon1802/status/1687357525216112645?s=20
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A anti woke UK news channel usually the home of Piers Morgan takes on the recent UFO subject with Nick Pope and Jeremy Corbell as the next group of whistle blowers are detailed.
They have begun the whistle blower protections process and will be testifying soon. Rumours have the number at 40 whistle blowers lined up. Some are people who have directly worked within the special compartmentalised project groups handling the craft.
https://youtu.be/fmO44IeMHT4
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... The chinese and Russians do not have oversight like the US and or limits of morality built in from a young age. Frankly they just dont care about much. Safety, morality, money, anything.
sounds like you're the one in an alternate universe if you believe the US is so different from R&C in these areas
Research has shown that repeating a claim increases that claim’s perceived truth value. The UFO propaganda machine is designed to tell the lies over and over and also discredit anything that doesn't agree with the propaganda version of the story. Anything that shows evidence that does follow the story line is vigorously attacked, but anything that follows the propaganda mission is accepted without questioning.
They claim to be searching for the truth but instead are ignoring the facts that would show their claims are vague fantasy science fiction.
Resolving cognitive dissonance. If more and more people can be persuaded that the system of belief is correct, then clearly it must after all be correct. Believers will spread the word in order to recruit more members to the group. Anyone who disagrees will be ignored or ridiculed. Any information that doesn't fit the belief programing will be ignored and ridiculed. Obvious fantasy and frauds will be used, and repeated, as supported evidence.
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You are arguing with someone who has no idea of what science is, but he believes his fake UFO SciFi trash.
More of your personal attacks and insults for anybody who doesn't agree with you. But you are hurt if anybody disagrees with your brainwashed tripe.
sounds like you're the one in an alternate universe if you believe the US is so different from R&C in these areas
Research has shown that repeating a claim increases that claim’s perceived truth value. The UFO propaganda machine is designed to tell the lies over and over and also discredit anything that doesn't agree with the propaganda version of the story. Anything that shows evidence that does*nt follow the story line is vigorously attacked , but anything that follows the propaganda mission is accepted without questioning.
They claim to be searching for the truth but instead are ignoring the facts that would show their claims are vague fantasy science fiction.
Resolving cognitive dissonance. If more and more people can be persuaded that the system of belief is correct, then clearly it must after all be correct. Believers will spread the word in order to recruit more members to the group. Anyone who disagrees will be ignored or ridiculed. Any information that doesn't fit the belief programing will be ignored and ridiculed. Obvious fantasy and frauds will be used, and repeated, as supported evidence.
You've just described your only participation in this thread admirably. And that of your 'group' members. I did laugh when you quoted the Shatner post and used that as further vague fantasy proof of "attacks". Give me a break. You don't even know what an attack even means. So you aren't capable of contributing anything meaningful and as shown above just prefer to post unrelated derogatory drivel. Fine I can accommodate that 😊. Welcome to the thread anyway.
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A anti woke UK news channel usually the home of Piers Morgan takes on the recent UFO subject with Nick Pope and Jeremy Corbell as the next group of whistle blowers are detailed.
... Rumours have the number at 40 whistle blowers lined up. Some are people who have directly worked within the special compartmentalised project groups handling the craft.
just contradicts your claims skeptics don't consider the other side! how many alien-friendly tabloids et al have shown skeptical views?
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A anti woke UK news channel usually the home of Piers Morgan takes on the recent UFO subject with Nick Pope and Jeremy Corbell as the next group of whistle blowers are detailed.
... Rumours have the number at 40 whistle blowers lined up. Some are people who have directly worked within the special compartmentalised project groups handling the craft.
just contradicts your claims skeptics don't consider the other side! how many alien-friendly tabloids et al have shown skeptical views?
A news organisation isn't 'a' skeptic. And clearly you didn't watch it. I'm shocked.
It begins in a very neutral and balanced way ... "Better get your tin foil hats at the ready" to the X files music, unfortunately for the poorly briefed presenter.
You've coloured rumours red btw.
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...
You've coloured rumours red btw.
my error - should have noted i changed that to highlight your continued posting of rumors, speculation and hearsay. and once again in a way you can disingenuously claim you're "just sayin'"
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You've coloured rumours red btw.
my error - should have noted i changed that to highlight your continued posting of rumors, speculation and hearsay. and once again in a way you can disingenuously claim you're "just sayin'"
oh no ... isn't that an another of your ad hominem "attacks" that you fall back on with dreary regularity when someone corrects your speculation and straw clutching. Do you want to tag one of your team mates in?
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You've just described your only participation in this thread admirably. And that of your 'group' members. I did laugh when you quoted the Shatner post and used that as further vague fantasy proof of "attacks". Give me a break. You don't even know what an attack even means. So you aren't capable of contributing anything meaningful and as shown above just prefer to post unrelated derogatory drivel. Fine I can accommodate that 😊. Welcome to the thread anyway.
You're right. Since you are quoting attacks and drivel.
Peter has clearly found his meds 😳 ... pssst Lower the dose.
Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. ... It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. You are the one hurling claims lol. Crack on Peter please prove your claim. You can't though can you because skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. Pay them good money to work against you lol.
Many of those interviews are available on utube. Of course all that research had to be done for free according to Peter. Because if you take that research and put the salient points in a book jacket and sell it, it automatically makes you a fraud. Oops. and the lectures these fraudsters attend are also scambait.
Peter is giving away his stock photos for free everyone btw. Just dm him that's right isn't it Peter lol.
Shame you ranted off Peter. Why is anyone's guess but that's you isn't it. What rank did you get to Pete ... I'm curious...
Just pointing out what personal attacks actually look like.
No the Bermuda Triangle is 100% fiction, error and people writing books to trick the suckers who will believe made up a mystery that has been documented to be fabricated or has ignored the truth, time after time. Once someone starts to look at "where is the Bermuda Triangle" just for a simple start, many of the cases, didn't occur in that area.
Then going back to records and facts, some of the cases, were later explained, (before the fantasy authors started writing this drivel in the 60s) ships were found, but the authors don't bother with that. Some never disappeared.
A training squadron led by a man with notoriously bad navigation skills and students with limited experience, flies out over the Atlantic and runs out of fuel, in rough seas and deep water. Can you imagine trying to find a volley ball, bouncing in the waves, in an unknown location?
The entire mystery is invented and worded to make something sound unexplained. Just like most of the UFO cases. How many times have we heard, over the years, lets say the last 40 or so, "soon there will be a big development that will blow the whole coverup wide open."
Best joke right now is whistle blowers, coming out, to expose the truth about something that doesn't exist. This is entertaining. Watch this bubble burst and the whole recent investigation deflate into the shadows. That's my prediction.
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The "believers" will never listen to reason and come up with the same stale "prove it's not real" which is a contradiction in logic. Prove I don't own a giant invisible frog, that lives in my yard. Impossible.
Believers don't want answers, they want the mystery and intrigue.
Nope, you can call me what you want, but I am clearly for science and evidence and a skeptic when it comes to extraordinary claims. Show me the evidence, I'm ready to change my mind and admit I was wrong and had erred.
Drug addled pensioner high on fish tank food and linoleum flakes.🤔
You said call you what we wanted 😊. The lower the dose comment obviously offended you and for that I apologise I can only say that comments like those in that context in my culture are robbed from films of a humorous nature from America and are used to deflate a perceived tense atmosphere. Obviously you've not seen those films.
Bermuda Triangle- I can't opose you on that Peter as we agree completely.
Best joke right now is whistle blowers, coming out, to expose the truth about something that doesn't exist
Hmmmm ok but I'd have a bit of a catch up because UAP factually exist that's why AARO are researching them and so are NASA. If you mean recovered craft again NASA and AARO are researching them and because they accept they exist one has to allow that some break potentially and there are some very high ranking individuals in governmnents around the world that believe so too. Aliens ... thats a wait and see now isn't it.
I see someone who is skeptical as someone who has not decided one way or another because they lack acceptable facts to pick a position.
Your version of skeptic is its all BS until you prove to me it isn't. I can discuss what I've learned. I can discuss what I've seen personally or read. I can discuss the merits of each story, photo and eye witness account and you can choose to believe or mock it.
But Peter you've interviewed me for a job I haven't applied for. I have no intention of attempting to convince you or anyone else of anything. I know what I believe and I'm aware of the details of what's going on but if you aren't as some aren't, I'm posting it here. We can have a conversation about it.
One thing for certain in my experience is that it has never ever gone down like this before. Especially with what I know is coming.
Thanks Peter for some interesting perspective.
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Following on from the story from Peru ... reports of aliens attacking the villagers around the area and bodies being found on the river banks with their faces removed are surfacing. And so has a video. A copy has been posted to a reddit page but be warned it is extremely graphic. And if real quite sad.
For the doubters the comments have a mixture of medical guesswork and actual knowledge. The concensus is that its fake. It is possible obviously but it would require rather good make up.
The body isn't obviously damaged aside from the obvious and appears on the face of it completely fine. But there are comments that the head isn't lolling back as it should the jaw bone is still attached and the list goes on.
Rigor Mortis sets in shortly after death. It does go away. Its also worth noting this upload is almost 2 months old so before recent news events although the villagers have said this has happened before in years past and has been for some time recently.
The face or skull is extremely white. This takes time to happen in flowing water and this body hasn't been there long.
Rigor is still present.
No bloating.
No pooling visible which there would be.
Blood looks fresh.
Neck incisions look very straight.
Despite claims that wildlife goes for the face first the man's ears are in tact. And in animals my experience is that it's usually the rectum and eyes, then jaw and skull.
The skull does appear to protrude oddly like it's someone wearing a mask but then the neck area wouldn't be easy to fake like that if at all.
So take it as you will. In my experience even events like this don't make much of a ripple. As mentioned before this could be drug gangs but to achieve this would mean someone quite out there. For wildlife to pick those bone structures that clean it takes days and the jaw would be gone. And water takes a few weeks. NO bloating, no pooling which occurs roughly an hour to two after death.
I won't put the page link myself but it can be found by searching for "Man with exposed skull taken out of the water" by user SomeOfYouMayDie
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It's official a rational explanation has been found for the aliens in Peru ... Prosecutors Office issues a working theory to explain hovering aliens
Miners. Miners who are mining illegally. Wearing jet packs. Seems legit.
The witnesses say no sound at all was made when the aliens hovered around.
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Developments on the David Grusch story hit a new low
yesterday as David Grusch was approached by an online news magazine called The Intercept. They asked him if he would like to comment about his medical diagnosis of PTSD.
There are three avenues for this information to come to light.
1. Through freedom of information request to the local sherrifs office regarding a detainment for transfer to a psychiatric facility.
2. From David's medical records held by the inteligence agency in his personnel files.
3. David Himself.
The local sherrif has confirmed that no such request has been revieved and no personal information was leaked.
David Grusch explained the details of the event to Ross Coulthart when he interviewed him and that was all.
Which leaves the Intelligence agencies personnel files staff.
Here in his own words regarding the events. David Grusch.
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When I was shooting, I didn’t see anything, I discovered it accidentally a few years later, sorting through the archives. Everything was shooted by me in RAW format. In the third photo it’s definitely strange and quite noticeable, but what gives it meaning is that there is a series of photos with a difference of 10 seconds on which there is also something, although without the third photo itself it would never have attracted attention. Obviously something is coming in the sky.
I don’t know what it is and I’m not saying it’s a UFO, but it’s definitely not a helicopter or a drone, it’s a bearish corner, there are only a couple of villages at the foot of the mountain range, and it was in 2012
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When I was shooting, I didn’t see anything, I discovered it accidentally a few years later, sorting through the archives. Everything was shooted by me in RAW format. In the third photo it’s definitely strange and quite noticeable, but what gives it meaning is that there is a series of photos with a difference of 10 seconds on which there is also something, although without the third photo itself it would never have attracted attention. Obviously something is coming in the sky.
I don’t know what it is and I’m not saying it’s a UFO, but it’s definitely not a helicopter or a drone, it’s a bearish corner, there are only a couple of villages at the foot of the mountain range, and it was in 2012
Certainly very interesting and moving. Thank you for that. It would be interesting to find out the focal length that you used at the time and shutter speed. Is 'bearish corner' a place named that or bear/bare remote? Obviously it's hard to guess size but looks quite large comparing it ro tree line. Again thank you.
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Two more. And you can see all parameters.
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Following on from the story from Peru ... reports of aliens attacking the villagers around the area and bodies being found on the river banks with their faces removed are surfacing. And so has a video. A copy has been posted to a reddit page but be warned it is extremely graphic. And if real quite sad.
For the doubters the comments have a mixture of medical guesswork and actual knowledge. The concensus is that its fake. It is possible obviously but it would require rather good make up.
...
these murders have been reported for more than a decade as corporations rape the rainforest, clearing out both forest & tribal villages
https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/massacre-in-the-amazon (https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/03/massacre-in-the-amazon)
https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/two-murders-in-the-amazon (https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/two-murders-in-the-amazon)
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When I was shooting, I didn’t see anything, I discovered it accidentally a few years later, sorting through the archives. Everything was shooted by me in RAW format. In the third photo it’s definitely strange and quite noticeable, but what gives it meaning is that there is a series of photos with a difference of 10 seconds on which there is also something, although without the third photo itself it would never have attracted attention. Obviously something is coming in the sky.
I don’t know what it is and I’m not saying it’s a UFO, but it’s definitely not a helicopter or a drone,...
it's called a cloud! to be expected with low clouds like this - you can see small changes in the nearby clouds including some becoming darker (usually caused by lighting changes due to other clouds positions wrt the sun. timelapse videos easily show this effect.
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When I was shooting, I didn’t see anything, I discovered it accidentally a few years later, sorting through the archives. Everything was shooted by me in RAW format. In the third photo it’s definitely strange and quite noticeable, but what gives it meaning is that there is a series of photos with a difference of 10 seconds on which there is also something, although without the third photo itself it would never have attracted attention. Obviously something is coming in the sky.
I don’t know what it is and I’m not saying it’s a UFO, but it’s definitely not a helicopter or a drone,...
it's called a cloud! to be expected with low clouds like this - you can see small changes in the nearby clouds including some becoming darker (usually caused by lighting changes due to other clouds positions wrt the sun. timelapse videos easily show this effect.
No it sn't. It isnt the smallest cloud ever to have come into existence, historically in any real world meteorological event. It may be a jet, an errant folding sun lounger adorned with a towel, sailing majestically atop a thermal or even more likely a rather large eagle clutching a small indigenous goat, but whatever it is, it is not a cloud the size of a reasonably priced family yurt.
Regarding your generic mention of murders occurring in Peru for decades I am not sure that qualifies as a valid analysis of the case I posted. Peru doesn't have a monopoly on murders for decades. In fact I'm pretty certain that murders happen fairly frequently around the world. No the gentleman that was found in Peru was dead. Cause unknown. However given his post mortem appearance he was either extremely badly mutilated by someone or some thing or both or he had an extremely aggressive shaving regime. In the absence of evidence of a razor and shaving foam I am going to assume his injuries were not self inflicted. Maybe he was a smoker and his lighter was incorrectly adjusted. Maybe it went down like the villagers reported but I think we can safely agree the witness who was actually present for the event is unable to give his version of events because he is tragically missing his face, lips, eyes and a functioning larynx.
Some out of the box thinking though. Lenticular nano clouds?
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When I was shooting, I didn’t see anything, I discovered it accidentally a few years later, sorting through the archives. Everything was shooted by me in RAW format. In the third photo it’s definitely strange and quite noticeable, but what gives it meaning is that there is a series of photos with a difference of 10 seconds on which there is also something, although without the third photo itself it would never have attracted attention. Obviously something is coming in the sky.
I don’t know what it is and I’m not saying it’s a UFO, but it’s definitely not a helicopter or a drone,...
it's called a cloud! to be expected with low clouds like this - you can see small changes in the nearby clouds including some becoming darker (usually caused by lighting changes due to other clouds positions wrt the sun. timelapse videos easily show this effect.
...
Regarding your generic mention of murders occurring in Peru for decades I am not sure that qualifies as a valid analysis of the case I posted. Peru doesn't have a monopoly on murders for decades. In fact I'm pretty certain that murders happen fairly frequently around the world. ...
once again you're distorting what i said - nowhere did I talk about 'generic' murder - i quoted SPECIFIC cases of corporate murder/massacres in the amazon occurring for decades as the rainforest is razed. mutilation of the dead has been part of those attacks. no need for alien encounters
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When I was shooting, I didn’t see anything, I discovered it accidentally a few years later, sorting through the archives. Everything was shooted by me in RAW format. In the third photo it’s definitely strange and quite noticeable, but what gives it meaning is that there is a series of photos with a difference of 10 seconds on which there is also something, although without the third photo itself it would never have attracted attention. Obviously something is coming in the sky.
I don’t know what it is and I’m not saying it’s a UFO, but it’s definitely not a helicopter or a drone,...
it's called a cloud! to be expected with low clouds like this - you can see small changes in the nearby clouds including some becoming darker (usually caused by lighting changes due to other clouds positions wrt the sun. timelapse videos easily show this effect.
...
Regarding your generic mention of murders occurring in Peru for decades I am not sure that qualifies as a valid analysis of the case I posted. Peru doesn't have a monopoly on murders for decades. In fact I'm pretty certain that murders happen fairly frequently around the world. ...
once again you're distorting what i said - nowhere did I talk about 'generic' murder - i quoted SPECIFIC cases of corporate murder/massacres in the amazon occurring for decades as the rainforest is razed. mutilation of the dead has been part of those attacks. no need for alien encounters
Well factually you proved you can post newspaper links with no photos. I'm sure there are plenty of murders everywhere as I said. I'm not disputing it.
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Whelp, episode is out:
https://maximumfun.org/episodes/oh-no-ross-and-carrie/ross-and-carrie-identify-anomalous-phenomena-congressional-ufo-hearing-edition/
Looking forward to listening.
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Whelp, episode is out:
https://maximumfun.org/episodes/oh-no-ross-and-carrie/ross-and-carrie-identify-anomalous-phenomena-congressional-ufo-hearing-edition/
Looking forward to listening.
So for the purposes of preventing misinformation this podcast is quite long and bad.
In the first 21 minutes it was drenched with incorrect facts and poor research lol.
So if you play grand theft auto ... this would be on the radio of your car. And I quote ...
"Ryan Graves is a bald man, wearing the most basic outfit you could to a congressional hearing and he is clean-shaven"
"And a blue tie" "Oh yeah the blue tie"
"He's an F18 pilot and runs a business called ....."
"That sounds made up"
"Basically he is the sort of guy youde see down the Gym"
"For sure down the Gym"
If you can sit through nearly 2 hours of that and learn incorrect facts then have at it. Aside from "he knew a guy once that may have seen something maybe but he's not sure" "... and the rest of his claims are like ... paper thin "
lol it was tragic. So bad. Time lines wrong, details none, conjecture heaped to the ceiling. Very poorly researched drivel. At least listen to Ryan Graves lol. Clearly they didn't even watchnthenwole thing. Talked s£it for two hours but couldn't watch for another two. omg hilarious.
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So if you want to hear the latest by people who are helping to guide Congress along with Grusch, Graves and Farvor this is the latest episode of Jeremy Corbell and Geroge Knapps podcast and you'll also get some background of what led up to the hearings.
https://youtu.be/kJR_pSZjUdk - podcast
As an aside there is some allegedly new footage of a plane being targeted by 3 UAPs and the plane is MH370 the one that went missing and nothing was found. Although some time later some very small pieces were allegedly found. Although that's independently being called into question. In the footage and there are various versions you see a plane taking what seems like evasion maneuvers and being chased by three spheres. The footage is satellite footage. At a certain point there is a small flash and the plane and UAPs vanish.
it is very compelling and in another version you get two aspects. Satellite image and another synced video allegedly from a FLIR camera being used ground to air.
So problems. Aside from the usually horsesh%t is that it crashed into the sea somewhere at night. Satellite imagery appears to be daylight but could be enhanced don't know. Flir video .... it was at sea that's why they can't find it surely so was the FLIR on a boat. Seems odd. And this has been around a while though its the first I've seen of it. Never the less I'd put it firmly in a bucket in stable. Well until yesterday when some sources 🙄 became adamant that this footage is confirmed as leaked. Now I never believed the jet footage films. But then they were confirmed as leaked and then the DOD confirmed they were real. So take it as you will ... I'm still doubtful but word is that its real. And it's gonna get more traction shortly. I'll have that pinch of salt ready ...
https://youtu.be/cBwT_2bbeto one of many versions there is actually a longer version but I couldn't find that again. This shows the important stuff.
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There's a guy with an excellent website that actually analyses footage. Can't remember the guy's name but he's mentioned a few times in that Ross and Carrie episode.
They treat the subject with the seriousness it deserves, sometimes much more than it deserves.
They've been looking into these and adjacent groups for many years. They know most of the kooks in front of Congress are toning it down for the normies while in fact have a barmy detailed mythology regarding a plethora of alien races (nordics etc.)
Highly recommend listening to the whole thing as they make lot of interesting points, if in a comical way.
EDIT it's Mick West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8)
Particularly of interest for photographers/ videographers
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There's a guy with an excellent website that actually analyses footage. Can't remember the guy's name but he's mentioned a few times in that Ross and Carrie episode.
They treat the subject with the seriousness it deserves, sometimes much more than it deserves.
They've been looking into these and adjacent groups for many years. They know most of the kooks in front of Congress are toning it down for the normies while in fact have a barmy detailed mythology regarding a plethora of alien races (nordics etc.)
Highly recommend listening to the whole thing as they make lot of interesting points, if in a comical way.
EDIT it's Mick West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8)
Particularly of interest for photographers/ videographers
Yeah no. Sorry to say that source is as cloud cuckoo as it gets. Mick West is a joke.
Currently Mick is attempting to convince everyone that in the gimble video that the craft is another jet, that it doesn't rotate at all and that the proteusions coming off it which in a good copy look like antenna are both lens anomalies and sensor flare. We are all waiting with bated breath because he has taken his torch out to the garage and pointed at his camera to prove a point that he'll no doubt claim proves his point.
But prior to that the 'go fast' video which was analyised by the DOD and various scientific groups within that organisation and concurred it was a UAP was according to mick nothing more ... than a seagull.
He has done a detailed examination and computer simulation of the FLIR pod sighted on a jet and using Google and concluded that it is a lens anomaly because it has to rotate along various axis because it isnt a turret mount, and that gives the illusion that the gimble craft rotate when it doesn't. He ignores the fact that the clouds behind the object mysteriously don't rotate at all.
He interviewed Commander Alex Dietrich for two hours regarding her experience when she and David Fravor engaged the Tic Tac craft and basically implied she was mistaken.
He created a computer generated simulation of her experience to show everyone what she saw to prove it wasn't anything and had to wind it back because he'd made a serious error through lack of expertise.
And just a few days ago he had to wind back on his claims about the gimble video in which he claims it was in his expert opinion another jet. For years he has been told the reason it was classed as a UAP was precisely because it was affirmed that there was no unauthorised jet in the training area because that doesn't happen they have transponders but he doesn't listen to that. Until someone obtained FLIR footage of exactly what not one but three jets look like on a FLIR and he had to concede. But it's still glare he says not rotation of a craft.
You can suggest whomever you like for you but I wouldn't suggest him without doing a very small bit of research about him. He's an ex high profile computer game programmer (Tony Hawk) and I believe spiderman maybe and then he stopped doing that and began a career inndebunkungn. He began doing that with Morgellons. God knows why but he did. And he isn't a doctor but as he says himself on his bio ... "so I wrote a hundred or so papers on Morgellons". OK then.
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EDIT it's Mick West
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Le7Fqbsrrm8)
Particularly of interest for photographers/ videographers
Mick West in above video 3 years old : "certainly the gimble and FLIR videos are constant with it being another plane"
Mick West 3 days ago
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To be honest my posts weren't targeted at you. The links are more for people interested in studying the UAP industry/ believer phenomenon, rather than UAP themselves. Much more interesting IMHO.
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To be honest my posts weren't targeted at you. The links are more for people interested in studying the UAP industry/ believer phenomenon, rather than UAP themselves. Much more interesting IMHO.
Oh god likewise no dig at you at all but Mick West akways gets wheeled out as the voice of reason and the guy is renowned for being shocking. Yeah the whole thing is fascinating but it is a minefield. I don't avoid Mick West because he is a debunker I avoid him because he is patently and consistently wrong. wrong. He makes his money by debunking but he lacks any expertise in all the critical fields required. Morgelons - not medically trained at all. Military expertise- none. Fighter pilot- nope. Photograoher - maybe but he makes significant errors in the simplist of explanations and I mean glaring errors.
So nothing to do with you but avoid Mick West as a trusted source.
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One thing for certain in my experience is that it has never ever gone down like this before. Especially with what I know is coming.
What is coming? When?
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Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
What is coming? When?
You've clearly made up your mind that nothing is coming.
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Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
What is coming? When?
You've clearly made up your mind that nothing is coming.
based on DECADES of real-soon-now claims
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Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
What is coming? When?
You've clearly made up your mind that nothing is coming.
based on DECADES of real-soon-now claims
on that point we can 100% agree.
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One thing for certain in my experience is that it has never ever gone down like this before. Especially with what I know is coming.
What is coming? When?
What is already here is the second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. A very good season again and a must-see for anyone interested in aliens. The last episode aired just last week.
Unfortunately, it ended on a cliff hanger and due to the actors and writers strike, it may be quite a while until the third season is coming.
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One thing for certain in my experience is that it has never ever gone down like this before. Especially with what I know is coming.
What is coming? When?
What is already here is the second season of Star Trek: Strange New Worlds. A very good season again and a must-see for anyone interested in aliens. The last episode aired just last week.
Unfortunately, it ended on a cliff hanger and due to the actors and writers strike, it may be quite a while until the third season is coming.
to put your humour in context ...
https://youtube.com/shorts/H_yCC4wIasw?feature=share
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Well that's not good news. So 40 whistblowers have lined up to testify or already may have. These whistleblowers were people discovered by David Grusch during his 4 year special projects cataloguing role. It was during this time that he discovered the ufo reverse engineering programmes that were not part of any congressional oversight. Which is why he reported it to his superiors and they passed it up the chain. When it reached the Pentagon they warned him off severely.
The open hearings were it was thought going to begin a flood of other whistle blower revelations and they would head up more open hearings to put pressure on the Pentagon to reveal what it has. Pressure that was also applied from the Whitehouse as well as Congress. And guess what ...
This announcement from Chris Mellon (Former Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Intelligence | Former Minority Staff Director, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence)
"Sadly, it appears that there is little prospect at this time of further hearings on the UAP issue by the House Oversight Committee. However, the Intelligence and Armed Services committees remain engaged and there is far-reaching legislation in the DoD Bill that establishes a process for declassifying unprecedented amounts of UAP data."
What does this mean.
Well Grusch was meant to reveal classified material from his investigations within a secure SCIF (Sensitive compartmented information facility). To do that whoever is present needs the relevant clearances to equal or exceed his so they can hear it. That doesn't happen overnight and may or may not have happened yet. I believe it has happened and has happened for the 40 as well.
But there has been some rather odd behaviour going on. Senator Gillibrand who was feral in getting to the truth gave a press conference as some event and all but made very light jokes and non statements. Complete 180.
Chuck Schumer who was extremely determined and made jaw dropping legislative amendments made a no comment statement on the issue.
Very very odd behaviours. As well from those on the inside and at the coal face have stated that it is like a war zone with people jumping round for cover like cockroaches when the lights come on.
However it has been stated that this disclosure is going ahead. It will go ahead with governments guidance or if they won't play ball it will be happening without them.
"This will never happen again so at the very latest by the end of this year the people of America will be left with zero doubt that were are not alone in the universe"
but also ...
"The trouble with these people is that half of the political groups are raging religious people and are of the firm belief that these aliens are not aliens at all but are definitely demons and they believe that 100%"
lol. omfg. OK - watch this space.
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One thing for certain in my experience is that it has never ever gone down like this before. Especially with what I know is coming.
What is coming? When?
The aliens are coming seems to be what Lowls is saying. I don't welcome that idea. If they are here as the grim reapers to harvest us, will they take the prize cattle first or thin the herd. Maybe they see the planet is being mismanaged and the pandemic didn't kill enough. We have famine, climate change, over population, nuclear weapons and more. I don't know why everyone thinks they are benevolent. We could be nothing but stock for a food supply for many other species. No one welcomed the slave traders, but people want to meet the aliens who could end our freedom.
I think the aliens first mission will be remove the agencies that are interfering with the plans. Take out the government that has captured fellow visitors and holds them hostage while trying to duplicate the technology. Next will be the meddling investigators who are exposing the aliens to the rest of us. They are not hiding without a reason. I don't welcome the aliens revealing their plans here.
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One thing for certain in my experience is that it has never ever gone down like this before. Especially with what I know is coming.
What is coming? When?
The aliens are coming seems to be what Lowls is saying. I don't welcome that idea. If they are here as the grim reapers to harvest us, will they take the prize cattle first or thin the herd. Maybe they see the planet is being mismanaged and the pandemic didn't kill enough. We have famine, climate change, over population, nuclear weapons and more. I don't know why everyone thinks they are benevolent. We could be nothing but stock for a food supply for many other species. No one welcomed the slave traders, but people want to meet the aliens who could end our freedom.
I think the aliens first mission will be remove the agencies that are interfering with the plans. Take out the government that has captured fellow visitors and holds them hostage while trying to duplicate the technology. Next will be the meddling investigators who are exposing the aliens to the rest of us. They are not hiding without a reason. I don't welcome the aliens revealing their plans here.
There are worrying hints that we are a resource. I haven't heard hints of food source just 'resource' whatever that means.
Honestly though with the ability to travel across the universe and therefore pass many a planet resources that our planet can offer seem irrelevant. With one exception. Water.
Technology seems unlikely but who knows.
So why is a very important question. That said thousands of people go missing each year. Globally it must be many many thousands. So through crime. Some through misadventures. but that's a relatively small percentage. Where do people go missing to and why.
The film Fire in The Sky had decaying people in alcoves sealed in with a membrane. A fact that Travis Walton explained was a fictional addition he didn't experience. Thank god lol.
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aliens are our friends -- read "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight (1950s)
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aliens are our friends -- read "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight (1950s)
If they are aliens and not us /future us/interdimensional somebodies they seem to be very happy for us to starve, war against each other, and struggle on. The cry for disclosure so that we can benefit from their advanced technology seems optimistic at best.
Personally I want disclosure or rather full disclosure so that we can put the secrecy to bed and get on with learning what we can. Unfortunately that probably means capturing. That said the Russian files show they haven't mucked about filming them from cockpits and straight out tried to bring them down with recorded losses and retaliation.
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aliens are our friends -- read "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight (1950s)
If they are aliens and not us /future us/interdimensional somebodies they seem to be very happy for us to starve, war against each other, and struggle on. The cry for disclosure so that we can benefit from their advanced technology seems optimistic at best.
Personally I want disclosure or rather full disclosure so that we can put the secrecy to bed and get on with learning what we can. Unfortunately that probably means capturing. That said the Russian files show they haven't mucked about filming them from cockpits and straight out tried to bring them down with recorded losses and retaliation.
you have a humor deficit
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aliens are our friends -- read "To Serve Man" by Damon Knight (1950s)
If they are aliens and not us /future us/interdimensional somebodies they seem to be very happy for us to starve, war against each other, and struggle on. The cry for disclosure so that we can benefit from their advanced technology seems optimistic at best.
Personally I want disclosure or rather full disclosure so that we can put the secrecy to bed and get on with learning what we can. Unfortunately that probably means capturing. That said the Russian files show they haven't mucked about filming them from cockpits and straight out tried to bring them down with recorded losses and retaliation.
you have a humor deficit
You're probably right 😆 I think I'm frustrated with the drip feed. And now with what's going on regarding future hearings it doesn't look great. There is a small window for this to happen. Biden. Next year this will get buried again as the elections start in ernest. Tactically more needs to have happened publicly. There is more to come. But it needs to speed up. Or it will get hidden again.
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senator Eric Burlison
“I find I have a hard time buying the idea that an alien species is technologically capable to reach nearly the speed of light, travel trillions of miles or more, and gets here and somehow incapable of navigating Earth’s atmosphere,”.
“In my opinion I think it’s either angels or it’s manmade,” he said. “I think the most likely explanation is that it’s manmade.”
just wow
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Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
What is coming? When?
You've clearly made up your mind that nothing is coming.
Why won't you tell us? "Personally I want disclosure or rather full disclosure so that we can put the secrecy to bed and get on with learning what we can. "
You say you know, you won't answer because you don't like us? Where's the full disclosure.
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Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
What is coming? When?
You've clearly made up your mind that nothing is coming.
Why won't you tell us? "Personally I want disclosure or rather full disclosure so that we can put the secrecy to bed and get on with learning what we can. "
You say you know, you won't answer because you don't like us? Where's the full disclosure.
lol no of course not. I don't dislike you. I may find some people who have posted tedious and rude but everyone is different and I can choose to not read things.
I won't tell you because I can't tell you. What should have happened hasn't because... well because of a few reasons.
Much more video should have been released. David Grusch’s claims whilst they have been investigated and corroborated and other whisteblowers who worked on the craft jave also been interviewed ... the Pentagon has refused to cooperate further.
Senator Schumer has got laws through part way or all they way now that make it illegal to withhold materials not of earth including ufo and components and bodies etc. It was very specific and broad at the same time. It gave the givernmnent eminent domain over that stuff. But nothing had come of it. Because they've been told no. Further more although the Whitehouse is pushing this as well they are insisting it go through AARO and Sean Kirpatrick says nothing to see. Even though it is known he has been shown significant things. So until someone leaks somwthing big ... what can happen.
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Here's the basis hypothesis. They see a light in the sky that they can't identify, it must be space aliens. A extreme leap and conclusion without any basis.
What is coming? When?
You've clearly made up your mind that nothing is coming.
Why won't you tell us? "Personally I want disclosure or rather full disclosure so that we can put the secrecy to bed and get on with learning what we can. "
You say you know, you won't answer because you don't like us? Where's the full disclosure.
Some quotes and opinions to consider -
NASA: "One of NASA's key priorities is the search for life elsewhere in the universe, but so far, NASA has not found any credible evidence of extraterrestrial life and there is no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial."
Adam Frank, a professor of astrophysics at the University of Rochester: He does "not find these claims exciting at all" because they are all "just hearsay" where "a guy says he knows a guy who knows another guy who heard from a guy that the government has alien spaceships". Frank also said of the Grusch account that "it's an extraordinary claim, and it requires extraordinary evidence, none of which we're getting", adding "show me the spaceship".
Michael Shermer, publisher of Skeptic magazine: "it's astonishing it's come this far without any real evidence, without anybody in the scientific community making an appearance" and "we are still seeing not a shred of physical evidence".
Physicists and cosmologist Sean M. Carroll said of Grusch's claims about non-human visitors, "the evidence is laughable". About Grusch physics claims, Carroll said that Grusch was "talking about the Holographic principle and extra dimensions and stuff like that" which should "set off your alarm bells". He concluded that Grusch, "has all of the vibes of a complete crackpot".
Something to consider. NASA has not found any credible evidence of extraterrestrial life and there is no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial. We might be seeing some UAP or UFO and it could be an unexplained natural event. The leap of faith is to assume that just because it's Unidentified, that means it's ET.
I find it extraordinary that if we have this many crashed vehicles, there must be hundreds of these craft, maybe thousands, coming to see us, all the time. How else could there be so many crashes and recoveries? Yet astronomers, and people who search for ET, and other space and science people, have never seen one physically or a nice clear photo of the proof?
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... Yet astronomers, and people who search for ET, and other space and science people, have never seen one physically or a nice clear photo of the proof?
that's because the aliens have a special ray gun the makes all camera pictures blurry. therefore blurry pix only prove that ET are real
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That was wasted effort again. You seem keen on that. Or maybe you've got some kind of memory issue. Certainly selective amnesia.
NASA - spending $100,000.00 to investigate UAP. Which isn't even lunch money and they started a month ago. Credibility - ZERO
Adam Frank - clearly a moron. Hearsay only counts as evidence in legal terminology and 'Frank'ly his opinion is irrelevant. Because David Gruschs superiors who investigated his claims (we'll say claims but actually it was a sanctioned investigation into all special projects over 4 years) and they found his 'hearsay' credible and urgent. But then they had the clearances to see the evidence for themselves unlike this pillock. Surprised youde include that dross but whateva.
Shermer - he has his baseless opinion which he is entitled to make a living from.
Carroll - who lol.
Peter - same old same old. Rinse repeat.
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That was wasted effort again. You seem keen on that. Or maybe you've got some kind of memory issue. Certainly selective amnesia.
NASA - spending $100,000.00 to investigate UAP. Which isn't even lunch money and they started a month ago. Credibility - ZERO
Adam Frank - clearly a moron. Hearsay only counts as evidence in legal terminology and 'Frank'ly his opinion is irrelevant. Because David Gruschs superiors who investigated his claims (we'll say claims but actually it was a sanctioned investigation into all special projects over 4 years) and they found his 'hearsay' credible and urgent. But then they had the clearances to see the evidence for themselves unlike this pillock. Surprised youde include that dross but whateva.
Shermer - he has his baseless opinion which he is entitled to make a living from.
Carroll - who lol.
Peter - same old same old. Rinse repeat.
You asked for facts that contradict and then attack the person not the established reliable sources.
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That was wasted effort again. You seem keen on that. Or maybe you've got some kind of memory issue. Certainly selective amnesia.
NASA - spending $100,000.00 to investigate UAP. Which isn't even lunch money and they started a month ago. Credibility - ZERO
Adam Frank - clearly a moron. Hearsay only counts as evidence in legal terminology and 'Frank'ly his opinion is irrelevant. Because David Gruschs superiors who investigated his claims (we'll say claims but actually it was a sanctioned investigation into all special projects over 4 years) and they found his 'hearsay' credible and urgent. But then they had the clearances to see the evidence for themselves unlike this pillock. Surprised youde include that dross but whateva.
Shermer - he has his baseless opinion which he is entitled to make a living from.
Carroll - who lol.
Peter - same old same old. Rinse repeat.
You asked for facts that contradict and then attack the person not the established reliable sources.
I didn't "attack" stop being childish and dramatic. This isn't Ellen or Dr Phil.
He keeps stating the same incorrect information despite it being repeatedly told to him. Willfully.
I don't think I'll take lectures about being attacked from you.
NASA has only begun investigating UAPs. Fact. This has been stated previously. Fact. Had he bothered to research it for himself he would have remembered it. Fact. So NASA has zero credibility in this scenario. Also fact. Further more their research will not determine origins only technical capabilities.
Adam Frank ... writes drivel about hearsay then goes on to lie. Had Pete remembered or bothered to research himself he would have known/remembered that fact which is now a matter of congressional record. But no let's by all means cherry pick lies over facts. You' condone that apprently which makes you just as unreliable. Lies. Not facts.
Carroll - irrelevant. Apprentky despite being a physicist and cosmologist it doesn't preclude you from being a moron. Which he is for the very reasons already stated. Those with clearances have investigated already, those claims by David Grusch and found them.credible and urgent.
**DO YOU HEAR THAT. CREDIBLE AND URGENT.**
People who actually have the correct clearances have investigated it and corroborated David Grusch’s investigative findings.
Shermer - a skeptic with no clearances says otherwise. Shock. He makes a living from doing so. Shock. So this means nothing. Belly button fluff and nonsense. Another person who doesn't have clearances, isn't in the military or intelligence services or the government or anything but a utube studio ... says different. And .... lol. What does your aunt say. I'll ask mine and let you know .... pathetic.
I didn't ask for anything apart from accidental captures of UAP whilst taking photos for stock. What happened afterwards was a bunch of very unpleasant people piled in and began behaving like entitled brats. That's not an attack. It's a fact. Like children smirking and posting in a thread they had no interest in nor belief in.
I have posted events that have happened as by chance it came out of the blue. And I won't be bullied into not posting by said entitled brats.
As for poor Peter. Give me a break. He keeps coming back here to post crap and stir the **** doesn't he. Poor little little lamb 🤣 yeah right.
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now ... regarding what's coming this video recorded in 2014 features Boyde Bushman and may give a hint.
https://youtu.be/nd_ZXgObNNg?feature=shared
It's quite hard to locate and will no doubt be taken down in the coming weeks. We'll see.
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That was wasted effort again. You seem keen on that. Or maybe you've got some kind of memory issue.
...
Adam Frank - clearly a moron. Hearsay only counts as evidence in legal terminology and 'Frank'ly his opinion is irrelevant. Because David Gruschs superiors who investigated his claims (we'll say claims but actually it was a sanctioned investigation into all special projects over 4 years) and they found his 'hearsay' credible and urgent. But then they had the clearances to see the evidence for themselves unlike this pillock. Surprised youde include that dross but whateva.
Shermer - he has his baseless opinion which he is entitled to make a living from.
Carroll - who lol.
Peter - same old same old. Rinse repeat.
...Adam Frank ... writes drivel about hearsay then goes on to lie. ...
Carroll - irrelevant. Apprentky despite being a physicist and cosmologist it doesn't preclude you from being a moron. ...
.... And I won't be bullied into not posting by said entitled brats.
I didn't "attack" stop being childish and dramatic. This isn't Ellen or Dr Phil.
LOL - not an attack in sight - clearly you have no facts or evidence so you just resort to personal slurs[emphasis gladly added]
He keeps stating the same incorrect information despite it being repeatedly told to him. Willfully.
'told' is neither evidence nor fact'
'willfully' - now you're a mind reader?
Shermer - a skeptic with no clearances says otherwise.
as if being a skeptic is disqualifying? Shermer has been examining and testing pseudoscience & flimflam and exposing their deceptions & lies for decades
NASA has only begun investigating UAPs. Fact. This has been stated previously. Fact. Had he bothered to research it for himself he would have remembered it. Fact. So NASA has zero credibility in this scenario. Also fact. Further more their research will not determine origins only technical capabilities.
you may be unaware, but that is how science is done - form a TESTABLE hypothesis and gather evidence. even with proof of alien contact we'll have no idea of origin(unless they have a road map in their glove compartment - they must use gloves for their anal probes, right?)
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That was wasted effort again. You seem keen on that. Or maybe you've got some kind of memory issue.
...
Adam Frank - clearly a moron. Hearsay only counts as evidence in legal terminology and 'Frank'ly his opinion is irrelevant. Because David Gruschs superiors who investigated his claims (we'll say claims but actually it was a sanctioned investigation into all special projects over 4 years) and they found his 'hearsay' credible and urgent. But then they had the clearances to see the evidence for themselves unlike this pillock. Surprised youde include that dross but whateva.
Shermer - he has his baseless opinion which he is entitled to make a living from.
Carroll - who lol.
Peter - same old same old. Rinse repeat.
...Adam Frank ... writes drivel about hearsay then goes on to lie. ...
Carroll - irrelevant. Apprentky despite being a physicist and cosmologist it doesn't preclude you from being a moron. ...
.... And I won't be bullied into not posting by said entitled brats.
I didn't "attack" stop being childish and dramatic. This isn't Ellen or Dr Phil.
LOL - not an attack in sight - clearly you have no facts or evidence so you just resort to personal slurs[emphasis gladly added]
He keeps stating the same incorrect information despite it being repeatedly told to him. Willfully.
'told' is neither evidence nor fact'
'willfully' - now you're a mind reader?
Shermer - a skeptic with no clearances says otherwise.
as if being a skeptic is disqualifying? Shermer has been examining and testing pseudoscience & flimflam and exposing their deceptions & lies for decades
NASA has only begun investigating UAPs. Fact. This has been stated previously. Fact. Had he bothered to research it for himself he would have remembered it. Fact. So NASA has zero credibility in this scenario. Also fact. Further more their research will not determine origins only technical capabilities.
you may be unaware, but that is how science is done - form a TESTABLE hypothesis and gather evidence. even with proof of alien contact we'll have no idea of origin(unless they have a road map in their glove compartment - they must use gloves for their anal probes, right?)
NASA has assembled a team. To discuss how best to detect UAP. That's it. A month ago. And you ... you think they are currently viable as a paragon of credibility when they apparently state there is no evidence of much? Is that how science is done. State as fact a theory and set out to prove your theory correct. OK 🙄 like Mick West ... who you trust isn't it.
they must use gloves for their anal probes, right?
... not childish at all 🙄 but then you'll "gotchya" with a no sense of humour jibe like normal.
as if being a skeptic is disqualifying? Shermer has been examining and testing pseudoscience & flimflam and exposing their deceptions & lies for decades
Maybe he should have worked harder at school, got himself a job in the American Inteligance Agency and a degree in physics and then worked his way up the ladder and after shooting bad guys in a war and seeing his friends killed get employed in a top secret government role investigating all of Americas top secret projects with all his clearances. Instead he didn't and got himself a job requiring zero qualifications other than purchasing a decent Internet speed. And from the comfort of his home studio he garners gullible muppets who do zero research to run around whining about proof. While he watches the clickybank fill to brimming. That Shermer? OK then 👌
'told' is neither evidence nor fact'
'willfully' - now you're a mind reader?
So there were no UAP hearings in Congress then? He was told about them. Where congressman Matt Gaetz specifically spoke. And has given testimony. Testimony about visiting a base to interview pilots who interacted with UAP and look at their footage which all present found shocking and undeniable. Where the base commander initially refused them.permission to see the footage. Or speak to the pilots.. But had to be muzzled. And the CIA sat there present. What that isn't a fact? Because it is a fact. Again you see waffling on and blustering but woefully inept on substance. Much like Peter who has willfully ignored any and all questions and willfully ignores any facts because he chooses not to absorb them. Had he done so he wouldn't have wasted time typing all that nonsense yesturday. But nope. Willfully refuses to listen, learn, research. No doubt the Bermuda triangle will rise from the seabed next and be thrown about like I've actually shown any leaning towards it. Like AT all.
LOL - not an attack in sight - clearly you have no facts or evidence so you just resort to personal slurs[emphasis gladly added
gladly ... that tells you all you need to know about you. Likes to cause an argument obviously. As if the previous 17 pages left any doubt 🤦
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They are real. I know first hand.
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Another interesting UFO related one this week, much less jokey than last weeks and covers a lot of ground:
https://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2023/8/27/ross-and-brian-dunning-and-the-ufo-movie-they-dont-want-you-to-see
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Another interesting UFO related one this week:
https://ohnopodcast.com/investigations/2023/8/27/ross-and-brian-dunning-and-the-ufo-movie-they-dont-want-you-to-see
That was actually very interesting thank you.
He made two errors which aren't correct.
1. Trained observers do exist. He claimed that they asked several pilots (didnt specify what type) and trained observes don't exist, and Ross stated that, that statement really annoys him so much. They are both incorrect because military personnel who perform specific roles do train to observe. It is a constant process. They are given thick updated books which contain silhouettes of all craft. Ships, planes, helicopters, submarines etc and on and on and they are shown in different orientations. They are so proficient at it they can name specific ships in most navy's purely based on antenna layout or wing formations etc. So that was I'll informed.
2. Mick West did a great .... no he didn't. Whenever you begin a sentence with Mick West did a great ... the remainder of that sentence is rendered null and void.
In the pro UFO camp nothing is progressing. The internal war has intensified.
Senator Mike Turner who's constituency contains a major private aerospace contractor and who's campaign funds are heavily loaded with all the major private aerospace contractors payments was interviewed a few weeks ago regarding the hearings and his response was ...
"You know Maria I always love it when someone comes foreward and testifies about something they have no idea about . The most striking thing about all of the testimony was repeatedly over and over again, the whistle blowers had to say over and over again, I don't have any knowledge of this somebody told me that"
Only one whistle blower and 2 decorated Navy top gun pilots with very distinguished careers and also first hand witnesses themselves. But facts aren't important eh Mike Turner. Even the whistle blowers career and distinguished service destroys Mike Turner's life down to nothing.
Interviewer "So no Aliens on Earth then"?
Turner " um ... er ... pffff ... erm .... w.... er ... Maria I certainly can't tell you that there are no aliens on Earth .... " No because that would mean you lied on live TV wouldn't it Mike. Good save not.
But Mike was fuming after that interview and has been allegedly running around telling his underlings to stop talking about UAP and aliens and has stipulated that he doesn't want any more UAP hearings to take place in public. That was also leaked and he isn't allegedly very happy that this has now become public knowledge.
So he is running around an awful lot over things that don't exist. And the internal war continues after an expose by and ex NASA scientist who has implied that all UAP are probably China. Stirring anti Chinese sentiments. Now it's all China's fault. If that were true this forum would be in Mandarin not English.
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Deputy Secretary of Defense Kathleen Hicks takes over direct control of AARO and now Sean Kirkpatrick must report to her directly after she changed the procedure. Interestingly I believe she worked at some point for Matt Gaetz.
https://defensescoop.com/2023/08/30/hicks-takes-direct-oversight-of-pentagons-uap-office-new-reporting-website-to-be-launched/
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Well it's here .... AARO has its own publicly accessible website where they claim they will be revealing all the secrets or lack there of. After much pressure allegedly they will be publishing it with declassified photos and videos.
Those who are in contact within sources in the inteligence agencies and AARO and the back engineering programmes say that this is going to be a fake front to appease the masses.
https://www.aaro.mil/ (https://www.aaro.mil/)
see for yourself.
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon
Seattle, 31 August 2023 — In a groundbreaking moment for the scientific community and space enthusiasts alike, a team of researchers from the Discovery Institute in Seattle has uncovered an astonishing artifact: the fossilized head of an extraterrestrial being. The discovery promises to reshape our understanding of the cosmos and ignite new discussions about life beyond Earth.
The fossil was found on an Oregon beach in a fossil layer from 20 million years ago. The research team, comprised of paleontologists, astrobiologists, and geologists, has been meticulously analyzing the find and conducting comprehensive tests to ensure its authenticity.
Dr. Asuman Koska, the lead paleontologist on the project, expressed her excitement, stating, "This discovery is unlike anything we've encountered before. The fossilized head showcases features that are distinctly non-human, indicating an origin far beyond our planet. We are at the dawn of a new era in paleontology, one that challenges our preconceptions about life in the universe."
The fossil itself measures approximately 7" x 4" x 4" and is remarkably well-preserved, bearing features that resemble a blend of familiar Earth creatures while possessing otherworldly characteristics. Initial examinations suggest that the being might have possessed sensory organs and cranial structures that differ significantly from any known species on Earth.
(https://cascoly.com/jpg/230831-216-aipx.jpg)
(https://cascoly.com/jpg/230831-217-aipx.jpg)
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon
Seattle, 31 August 2023 — In a groundbreaking moment for the scientific community and space enthusiasts alike, a team of researchers from the Discovery Institute in Seattle has uncovered an astonishing artifact: the fossilized head of an extraterrestrial being. The discovery promises to reshape our understanding of the cosmos and ignite new discussions about life beyond Earth.
The fossil was found on an Oregon beach in a fossil layer from 20 million years ago. The research team, comprised of paleontologists, astrobiologists, and geologists, has been meticulously analyzing the find and conducting comprehensive tests to ensure its authenticity.
Dr. Asuman Koska, the lead paleontologist on the project, expressed her excitement, stating, "This discovery is unlike anything we've encountered before. The fossilized head showcases features that are distinctly non-human, indicating an origin far beyond our planet. We are at the dawn of a new era in paleontology, one that challenges our preconceptions about life in the universe."
The fossil itself measures approximately 7" x 4" x 4" and is remarkably well-preserved, bearing features that resemble a blend of familiar Earth creatures while possessing otherworldly characteristics. Initial examinations suggest that the being might have possessed sensory organs and cranial structures that differ significantly from any known species on Earth.
(https://cascoly.com/jpg/230831-216-aipx.jpg)
(https://cascoly.com/jpg/230831-217-aipx.jpg)
And you're an adult of advanced years too. Wow.
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon
Seattle, 31 August 2023 — In a groundbreaking moment for the scientific community and space enthusiasts alike, a team of researchers from the Discovery Institute in Seattle has uncovered an astonishing artifact: the fossilized head of an extraterrestrial being. The discovery promises to reshape our understanding of the cosmos and ignite new discussions about life beyond Earth.
I believe this was an attempt at humor or ridicule. Fascinating.
A for effort. F for the content.
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon
Seattle, 31 August 2023 — In a groundbreaking moment for the scientific community and space enthusiasts alike, a team of researchers from the Discovery Institute in Seattle has uncovered an astonishing artifact: the fossilized head of an extraterrestrial being. The discovery promises to reshape our understanding of the cosmos and ignite new discussions about life beyond Earth.
I believe this was an attempt at humor or ridicule. Fascinating.
A for effort. F for the content.
thanks, i figured this might raise the quality of a constant rain of drivel, hearsay & other pseudo-science posted here. at least i have a nice rock i can place in my garden w legitimate Oregon fossils. besides it only took a few minutes to get a draft from ChatGPT to write my 'press release'
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Speaking of aliens.
NYC Spends $8 Million a Day to House Migrants as Influx Swells
The costs associated with the migrant crisis are ballooning beyond the city’s ability to afford them, city officials have repeatedly warned. The cost of sheltering and caring for the migrant population will reach $4.3 billion by July 1 of next year, according to city estimates — but the total cost could be much larger if recent immigration trends continue
Seems they found it's easy to be a sanctuary city in theory, but much different when it becomes the reality.
Why do the government let this happen?
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon
Seattle, 31 August 2023 — In a groundbreaking moment for the scientific community and space enthusiasts alike, a team of researchers from the Discovery Institute in Seattle has uncovered an astonishing artifact: the fossilized head of an extraterrestrial being. The discovery promises to reshape our understanding of the cosmos and ignite new discussions about life beyond Earth.
I believe this was an attempt at humor or ridicule. Fascinating.
A for effort. F for the content.
thanks, i figured this might raise the quality of a constant rain of drivel, hearsay & other pseudo-science posted here. at least i have a nice rock i can place in my garden w legitimate Oregon fossils. besides it only took a few minutes to get a draft from ChatGPT to write my 'press release'
Unfortunately you've failed spectacularly and merely contaminated the drivel with a rather large dollop of ego.
This constant rain is easily avoided isn't it? Are we dealing with some form of home invasion where persons unknown have you, bound and gagged to a chair constantly hitting refresh to make you watch. Or is it some pedestrian pebble fetish you need to share. Clearly you have zero interest in this thread. Like less than zero. And only post to dilute the thread and attempt to start arguments. A grown arse man. I'm genuinely fascinated. That takes determination and valuable time. You really have to work at that sh#t. I mean lol its wierd but ok 🤣 👍
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FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Historic Discovery: Fossilized Extraterrestrial Head Unearthed in Oregon
thanks, i figured this might raise the quality of a constant rain of drivel, hearsay & other blah blah blah
Saw this and thought of you ...
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Things suddenly accelerated. There has been significant pushback from the Pentagon and elements (Mike Turner) within Congress. Turner's patch contains Wright Patterson AFB and all the major government defence contractors contribute to his campaign. So it has left the Grusch issue to hang.
No one has as yet gotten Grusch in a scif since his testimony in public. Which is odd because he's offered to walk people up to the doors where the craft are held as long as they give themselves the clearances required. Turner has fought for no more hearings at all and certainly no more public hearings.
If you're an American and you want to apply pressure there is a proformas you can complete and directly contact your local congressional representative. It's your money they are giving away to this. Make it worth it. Because ifnyou don't, or even if you do and they don't listen ....
https://twitter.com/MetaStudioLogic/status/1699210034666971230?s=20
it's going to go another way apparently. Here James Fox explains how.
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Not had chance to watch it ...
David Grusch has given another interview. 2 hours long. Not sure what's in it but it was rumoured that he would be unmuzzled very soon. Maybe this is that interview.
https://youtu.be/kRO5jOa06Qw?feature=shared
enjoy
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So .... The Mexican government had their UAP hearings a few hours ago. It was all going smoothly when after hearing from Ryan Graves and watching some Mexican military recorded UAP activity they decided to show what had been sitting in a couple of boxes on the presentation table.
Dead Aliens. And I ain't even joking. Just thumped them out there on the table. Along with their experts and the result of a tonne of tests. They were found in Nasca in 2017 and have been carbon dated to around 1000 years. No translation of the hearings which were broadcast in Mexican has been uploaded yet but .... lol ... just wow.
https://youtu.be/4HUB1rvVej4?feature=shared
but .... isn't there always a but ... around the time they were discovered there were others that have allegedly been proven to be completely fake. And the Mexican government produced these at the hearings as real... yet they feature in this horrendous, toe curling, dire debunking video. Along with others.
https://youtu.be/-DmDHF6jN9A?feature=shared
So it comes down to who do you believe. The scientific community of Mexico or ... utuber who explains where he got that its fake from.
Enjoy
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Following that on reddit. They even released DNA data.
Waiting for this to hit front page news.
They should send these corpses to other Universities around the world or invite their specialists to come in.
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Following that on reddit. They even released DNA data.
Waiting for this to hit front page news.
They should send these corpses to other Universities around the world or invite their specialists to come in.
lol I know I've just read all that. According to those who may know, the DNA is 30% unknown dna.
However that video does feature them and showed a femur where the arm should be and another showed that half the skull came from a lama. I mean different corpses to these but a worrying link to a suspected hoaxer. Then again people should beware that the pages of the Internet are full of experts in all manner of fields who have an interest in UAP.
Interestingly James Fox, Ross Coulthart, Jeremy Corbell, Geroge Knapp and Bryce Zabel to name a few are completely silent on the issue. Literally nothing.
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Ancient 'Non-Human' Alien Bodies Found in Mines, UFO Expert Says
https://www.newsweek.com/non-human-alien-bodies-found-ufo-crash-1826609 (https://www.newsweek.com/non-human-alien-bodies-found-ufo-crash-1826609)
https://youtu.be/1butDTz8Pbk (https://youtu.be/1butDTz8Pbk)
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So I don’t understand, are they showing people real aliens? :o :o :o :o
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So I don’t understand, are they showing people real aliens? :o :o :o :o
OK so it's hard to tell. 100% some of the bodies in the past that Jaime Maussan has presented are ancient bodies that have been found. Called mummified but actually petrified. They aren't alien. The X-rays of these bodies have had children human bones from say a leg (femur) placed in the bodies humorous position to elongate it. The upper arm. It was also found that whomever constructed these corpses placed tie bones in some of the finger positions to make them longer and in the wrist areas various finger bones were just well dumped in a mish mash. The final straw was that although some of the bodies had naturally very elongated skulls (sciencists) claim this was probably due to head binding of a child, a common practice in some areas of then world then, that some of the skulls had been assembled from the front half of a child and the back of the skull was actually a lamas skull turned round.
Now as gruesome as that sounds he's never been charged with any such crime. Skeptics have but no authorities have. And he lives in infamy. And then they wheeled him out at the end of the Mexican USP hearings and he opened the boxes ro reveal two more skeletal remains.
This is where is gets wierd. The two he brought out have been examined and a genome sequence extracted and registered. Gary Nolan a very well respected scientist has stated he is too busy to do the work examining the sequence and it will take quite a bit of finding and a year roughly to get to the bottom of it. Errors were made and human cross contamination did happen. That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown. Further more the various documentaries debunking these bodies didn't feature the specific ones he wheel out. X-rays have been taken and many many tests done by the Mexican governments medical officer and he has concluded they are not human.
There are anomalies. Whilst it doesn't appear that any bones are where they shouldn't be there doesn't appear to be any room for lungs. This means they're fake or had a different breathing method. Their skulls do not appear to have been tampered with. The only question really hangs over their legs. Normally the top of the femur (thigh bone) would have a ball on top. So that it can freely move. Neither body has a ball. But that's human and animal anatomy and perhaps they had some different structure there that has disintegrated. The female shows on x-ray to have 3 eggs inside her consistent with some form of amphibian anatomy and there are rumours now surfacing that the closest match to the 30% is turtle dna. But it's in no way definitive.
The debunkers are popping champaign corks morning noon and night. Believers are disgusted with the whole thing and word is going around that the inteligence community are breathing a sigh of relief.
As the ashes are falling Mike Pence gets collared by an Interviewer and asked
I: Did you get briefed on UFOs
MP: I did.
I: Do they exist?
MP: Well it doesn't exist but I'll tell you I've been out to area 51 and I didn't see anything there that wasn't from here.
Which means UFOs do exists. You can't be briefed on something if it isn't real. I mean youde have to have the IQ of chicken feed to believe otherwise but even if his briefing was they don't exists he wasn't prepared to say that and randomly started offering lack of aliens at area 51. He's being roasted about that now. Silly answer to a yes or no question. And made things worse for himself. Oh well meh.
So back to bodies they've been tested to death according to the Mexican government but honestly it's a blood bath. Americans Vs Mexicans is a vile experience to watch and this is being used as another stick to beat the Mexicans with. But the scientific data has been released to the public and you can go and look at the genome sequence yourself. It's a f'ing large file apprently lol. I think garry nolannsaid somwthing about 4TB of data maybe he said GB but still lol.
There its a waiting game on the two from the hearings with a dodgy slap dash examination of them in the past brought forward to today as irrefutable evidence of their fakeness. Except most of what the morons are waving around is related to the known fakes. We'll see.
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That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
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That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
that's not what the university cited - they only had access to the DNA and did the c14 dating - they made NO clams about origin
The university lab which did the testing “disassociates itself from any use, interpretation, or subsequent misrepresentation of the results it provides,” the institute said. “In no case do we draw conclusions about the origin of these samples.”
Similarly, Antígona Segura, one of Mexico’s top astrobiologists, questioned Mr. Maussan’s contentions. “These conclusions are simply not backed up by evidence,” said Dr. Segura, who collaborates with the Nexus for Exoplanet System Science, a NASA initiative to search for life on distant worlds. “The whole thing is very shameful.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html)
and these ARE mummies - as usually found in the high andes - but not Egyptian-brand mummies. 'petrified' bodies means turned to rock which doesnt contain DNA
in other words, just the usual UFO-alien nonsense
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
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That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
that's not what the university cited - they only had access to the DNA and did the c14 dating - they made NO clams about origin
The university lab which did the testing “disassociates itself from any use, interpretation, or subsequent misrepresentation of the results it provides,” the institute said. “In no case do we draw conclusions about the origin of these samples.”
Similarly, Antígona Segura, one of Mexico’s top astrobiologists, questioned Mr. Maussan’s contentions. “These conclusions are simply not backed up by evidence,” said Dr. Segura, who collaborates with the Nexus for Exoplanet System Science, a NASA initiative to search for life on distant worlds. “The whole thing is very shameful.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html)
and these ARE mummies - as usually found in the high andes - but not Egyptian-brand mummies. 'petrified' bodies means turned to rock which doesnt contain DNA
in other words, just the usual UFO-alien nonsense
noted re: petrification
Yes it's a bit of a mess isn't it. The problem is any scientific opinion means very little at present. What would they reference as a comparison. Another alien they claim doesnt exist.
There are claims that the bones in one of these bodies arms is a child's femur. The shape doesn't match very well but well enough to claim it. But the claim that it is a child's femur is a fallacy. Samples of it would need to be drilled to determine composition and age. I'm not sure if that's been done.
The same with similar dimensions to a reversed portion of the rear of a llama skull masquerading as its face. Various biologists have stated it is possible but without examining it themselves they aren't prepared to make a discision based on screen shots and uploaded photos of scans and X rays which is right and proper.
The major thing is the hips. No ball joint at the top of the femur. Some claim making walking impossible and others claiming no side movement would have been possible. Only an uncomfortable foreward motion would be possible. But they're 1000 years old. Allegedly.
Of the biologist that have come forward they have pointed to these impressions but state that unfortunately it 'could' be possible that some other structure was present which has since decayed away leaving little or no trace. They don't think its likely but still.
Its one of those things that the right people to investigate it fully are the very people that have been shown to cover up and lie about things whilst others are not prepared to be associated with it.
It will then it seems have to come down to the dna for now while funding is sought to do what is required.
Garry Nolan asked chatgpt what would be needed to answer this question. He was amazed to discover that for the most part chatgpt was correct. Chatgpt has added equipment costs which if you already had them would significant reduce costs.
Post
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Conversation
Garry P. Nolan
@GarryPNolan
Asked a neutral observer-- chatGPT. 😇😋🤣
Someone has claimed they found an alien mummy. They have x-rays and DNA results they claim are evidence. Others have pointed out the bones look to be from multiple different animals, and humans, glued together. The DNA results claim the sequences are unlike anything seen. What would you do to explore the findings if you had to repeat them, and how large a team would it take to do so... that includes a full forensic analysis of the mummies, and redoing the DNA analysis. You are doing this at the level of a high-end medical laboratory or FBI-level forensics research. Give me a detailed point-by-point analysis, then the costs required.
ChatGPT: Investigating a claim of an alien mummy with the rigor of a high-end medical laboratory or FBI-level forensics research would require a multi-disciplinary approach. Here's a step-by-step analysis of the process:
1. Forensic Examination of the Mummy:
Visual Examination: Begin with a thorough visual examination to document the mummy's appearance, including any signs of tampering or alteration.
Radiographic Analysis: Use X-rays to examine the internal structure of the mummy. This will help identify any inconsistencies in bone structure or evidence of multiple species.
CT Scanning: This provides a more detailed view of the internal structures and can help identify any hidden anomalies.
Microscopic Analysis: Examine tissue samples under a microscope to identify any signs of tampering or to determine the age of the tissues.
Team Required: Forensic anthropologist, radiologist, forensic pathologist.
2. DNA Analysis:
Sample Collection: Extract DNA samples from various parts of the mummy to ensure a comprehensive analysis.
DNA Sequencing: Sequence the DNA to determine its genetic makeup.
Comparison with Known Species: Compare the DNA sequences with known species to identify any matches or anomalies.
Contamination Check: Ensure that the samples haven't been contaminated with human or other DNA.
Team Required: Molecular biologist, geneticist, bioinformatician.
3. Chemical Analysis:
Tissue Analysis: Analyze the tissue samples to determine their chemical composition and to identify any preservatives or adhesives.
Isotope Analysis: This can provide information about the mummy's diet and geographical origin.
Team Required: Forensic chemist, biochemist.
4. Historical and Cultural Analysis:
Provenance Research: Determine the origin of the mummy, its history, and any previous owners or handlers.
Cultural Analysis: Consult with experts on ancient cultures to determine if the mummy fits within any known historical or cultural context.
Team Required: Historian, archaeologist, cultural anthropologist.
5. Documentation and Reporting:
Photographic Documentation: Document every step of the investigation with high-resolution photographs.
Detailed Reporting: Compile a comprehensive report detailing the findings, methodologies used, and conclusions.
Team Required: Forensic photographer, technical writer.
Cost Estimation:
Forensic Examination:
Equipment (X-ray machine, CT scanner, microscopes): $500,000 - $1,000,000
Personnel: $300,000 (annual salaries combined)
DNA Analysis:
Equipment (DNA sequencers, lab equipment): $200,000 - $500,000
Personnel: $250,000 (annual salaries combined)
Chemical Analysis:
Equipment (mass spectrometers, chromatographs): $100,000 - $300,000
Personnel: $200,000 (annual salaries combined)
Historical and Cultural Analysis:
Research materials, travel, consultations: $50,000 - $100,000
Personnel: $150,000 (annual salaries combined)
Documentation and Reporting:
Equipment (cameras, software): $10,000 - $50,000
Personnel: $100,000 (annual salaries combined)
Total Estimated Cost: $1,110,000 - $2,600,000 (This is a rough estimate and actual costs could vary based on location, specific equipment used, and other variables.)
This investigation would be comprehensive and would aim to either validate or debunk the claim of an alien mummy. The team would work collaboratively, sharing findings and consulting with each other throughout the process. At the end of the process, the results would be submitted for peer-review prior to making formal claims.
Anyone got a couple of million hanging around that they want to waste on a fake alien? lol.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
no they didn't. Senator Bill Nelson did. And he is one slice short of a sandwich. Even if they had done at the hearings
they ...
1. Aren't researching historic cases.
2. aren't researching classified videos and data.
3. Aren't going to speculate and research origins.
These were clearly stated at the first hearing.
And at this hearing they want the public to download their UAP reporting app to send in videos. That's right folks they want what utubes already had for 25 years.
And finally that husk Nelson was asked about David Grusches claims. Nelson is a senator so being part of Congress and the organisation that deals with space youde expect him to have an opinion based on what he's learned so far .... oh .... oh dear.
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16inteu/bill_nelson_on_david_grusch_and_his_claims/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb (https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/16inteu/bill_nelson_on_david_grusch_and_his_claims/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb)
be lucky if he keeps his job. Lego aliens thanks you Bill Nelson for taking the heat off them.
Just the facts ... om fg ... just the facts. A fact that he should employ the next time he opens his slack jaw. None of what he said was accurate. Maybe about dragnet.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ)
“We find no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial in origin,” said team lead David Spergel at Princeton University during the press conference. “Most events are explainable as planes, balloons, drones, weather phenomena and instrument features.”
NASA Independent Panel report.
That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
Unknown doesn't translate to aliens or anything, it means... UNKNOWN very simple, it couldn't be identified because the structure was too old or had been destroyed. Finding nothing is not a way to jump to the conclusion that it's something else.
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that's not what the university cited - they only had access to the DNA and did the c14 dating - they made NO clams about origin
The university lab which did the testing “disassociates itself from any use, interpretation, or subsequent misrepresentation of the results it provides,” the institute said. “In no case do we draw conclusions about the origin of these samples.”
Similarly, Antígona Segura, one of Mexico’s top astrobiologists, questioned Mr. Maussan’s contentions. “These conclusions are simply not backed up by evidence,” said Dr. Segura, who collaborates with the Nexus for Exoplanet System Science, a NASA initiative to search for life on distant worlds. “The whole thing is very shameful.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html)
and these ARE mummies - as usually found in the high andes - but not Egyptian-brand mummies. 'petrified' bodies means turned to rock which doesnt contain DNA
in other words, just the usual UFO-alien nonsense
noted re: petrification
Yes it's a bit of a mess isn't it. The problem is any scientific opinion means very little at present. What would they reference as a comparison. Another alien they claim doesnt exist.
There are claims that the bones in one of these bodies arms is a child's femur. The shape doesn't match very well but well enough to claim it. But the claim that it is a child's femur is a fallacy. Samples of it would need to be drilled to determine composition and age. I'm not sure if that's been done.
The same with similar dimensions to a reversed portion of the rear of a llama skull masquerading as its face. Various biologists have stated it is possible but without examining it themselves they aren't prepared to make a discision based on screen shots and uploaded photos of scans and X rays which is right and proper.
no, the problem is that this wasn't treated scientifically. some DNA was examined externally with no claim of extraterrestrial existence. but otherwise this ridiculous 'release' is exploited by a previously exposed UFO hoaxer w/o credentials and who performed none of the necessary tests for a REAL scientific report.
The major thing is the hips. No ball joint at the top of the femur. Some claim making walking impossible and others claiming no side movement would have been possible. Only an uncomfortable foreward motion would be possible. But they're 1000 years old. Allegedly.
nonsense - we have hundreds of fossils, millions of ears old, across vertebrate lines & none of their hips have such a mal-formed femur.
Of the biologist that have come forward they have pointed to these impressions but state that unfortunately it 'could' be possible that some other structure was present which has since decayed away leaving little or no trace. They don't think its likely but still.
more scientific whaledreck - they don't think it's likely. Period. it's also not likely it was the remains of a terrestrial leprechaun, but still..
Its one of those things that the right people to investigate it fully are the very people that have been shown to cover up and lie about things whilst others are not prepared to be associated with it.
you slander thousands of reputable scientists and officials who have not done anything like that. instead you support hoaxers, frauds* flim-flam reports that would never make it to a peer reviewed journal. in the real scientific world, these sorts of tests are done BEFORE making extraordinary claims.
It will then it seems have to come down to the DNA for now while funding is sought to do what is required.
yes and the DNA does not support the hoaxer's claims.
-
that's not what the university cited - they only had access to the DNA and did the c14 dating - they made NO clams about origin
The university lab which did the testing “disassociates itself from any use, interpretation, or subsequent misrepresentation of the results it provides,” the institute said. “In no case do we draw conclusions about the origin of these samples.”
Similarly, Antígona Segura, one of Mexico’s top astrobiologists, questioned Mr. Maussan’s contentions. “These conclusions are simply not backed up by evidence,” said Dr. Segura, who collaborates with the Nexus for Exoplanet System Science, a NASA initiative to search for life on distant worlds. “The whole thing is very shameful.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/world/americas/alien-mummy-congress-mexico.html)
and these ARE mummies - as usually found in the high andes - but not Egyptian-brand mummies. 'petrified' bodies means turned to rock which doesnt contain DNA
in other words, just the usual UFO-alien nonsense
noted re: petrification
Yes it's a bit of a mess isn't it. The problem is any scientific opinion means very little at present. What would they reference as a comparison. Another alien they claim doesnt exist.
There are claims that the bones in one of these bodies arms is a child's femur. The shape doesn't match very well but well enough to claim it. But the claim that it is a child's femur is a fallacy. Samples of it would need to be drilled to determine composition and age. I'm not sure if that's been done.
The same with similar dimensions to a reversed portion of the rear of a llama skull masquerading as its face. Various biologists have stated it is possible but without examining it themselves they aren't prepared to make a discision based on screen shots and uploaded photos of scans and X rays which is right and proper.
no, the problem is that this wasn't treated scientifically. some DNA was examined externally with no claim of extraterrestrial existence. but otherwise this ridiculous 'release' is exploited by a previously exposed UFO hoaxer w/o credentials and who performed none of the necessary tests for a REAL scientific report.
The major thing is the hips. No ball joint at the top of the femur. Some claim making walking impossible and others claiming no side movement would have been possible. Only an uncomfortable foreward motion would be possible. But they're 1000 years old. Allegedly.
nonsense - we have hundreds of fossils, millions of ears old, across vertebrate lines & none of their hips have such a mal-formed femur.
Of the biologist that have come forward they have pointed to these impressions but state that unfortunately it 'could' be possible that some other structure was present which has since decayed away leaving little or no trace. They don't think its likely but still.
more scientific whaledreck - they don't think it's likely. Period. it's also not likely it was the remains of a terrestrial leprechaun, but still..
Its one of those things that the right people to investigate it fully are the very people that have been shown to cover up and lie about things whilst others are not prepared to be associated with it.
you slander thousands of reputable scientists and officials who have not done anything like that. instead you support hoaxers, frauds* flim-flam reports that would never make it to a peer reviewed journal. in the real scientific world, these sorts of tests are done BEFORE making extraordinary claims.
It will then it seems have to come down to the DNA for now while funding is sought to do what is required.
yes and the DNA does not support the hoaxer's claims.
I guess it's drinky time again is it? I didn't slander any scientist moron.
Good to get your unqualified perspective on the rest before you start ranting. Shame. I've tried numerous times to engage with you but you always default to the patronising obnoxious discourse. At a boy 👍
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https://youtu.be/zrbT4Ty3dpI?feature=shared
the latest take. Greer (and I mean take him as you will( in my humble opinion is a grifter. He runs his C5 courses calling aliens down from wherever using lasers and intense meditation. Ok lol whatever. That said as part of the disclosure project he has probably brought more military personnel to testify under oath than anyone else. But I've always considered him the Uri Geller of the UFO world without the cheeky charm.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ)
“We find no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial in origin,” said team lead David Spergel at Princeton University during the press conference. “Most events are explainable as planes, balloons, drones, weather phenomena and instrument features.”
NASA Independent Panel report.
That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
Unknown doesn't translate to aliens or anything, it means... UNKNOWN very simple, it couldn't be identified because the structure was too old or had been destroyed. Finding nothing is not a way to jump to the conclusion that it's something else.
Thank you Peter for explaining the obvious. Just answering a question. Don't panic no one is challenging your religious beliefs.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Fine, what is their hypothesis then?
If not extraterrestrial then what? Extratemporal, ultraterrestrial, interdimensional or advanced tech belonging to adversaries of the US? Black budget projects? Multiple factions?
You've got confirmed observations of 'anomalies' that haven't been explained. You don't need evidence to formulate a hypothesis. If you reject one hypothesis, then the onus is on you to attempt an alternative explanation.
"We don't know 'officially' what it is, but we'll just imply it is not of extraterrestrial origin" - is very lame.
But the positive thing is that they called for the removal of stigma around the subject of UFO:
https://ca.news.yahoo.com/nasa-hopes-reduce-stigma-around-001644889.html
The culture of ridicule and stigmatization is pathetic. Since 2017 a lot has changed in this field, but many people are still stuck in the past.
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urghhh and the mess gets deeper and deeper.
Hello, everyone :
Many of you have contacted us in relation to the presentation of two alleged "reptilian humanoid" specimens last Tuesday, September 12, 2023 before the Congress of the Republic of Mexico.
These two specimens were supposedly discovered in the Nasca region in 2017 (sic) and then shipped to Mexico several months ago.
On behalf of all the members of the Inkarri Cusco Institute, we want to express our deepest disagreement with this scandalous situation.
As we have not had the opportunity to examine these two supposedly non-human mummies, we cannot confirm their suspected authenticity.
The only mummified bodies about which we can give a definitive opinion are those of "María", "Wawita", "Alberto", "Josefina" and "Victoria". These mummies are currently at the San Luis Gonzaga University of Ica (UNICA) and have been studied and analyzed since 2019.
On the basis of these analyses, the two species studied have been classified as "unknown origin." The Inkarri Institute does not go further, preferring to leave the debate on this "origin" to specialists in the field, without favoring any particular hypothesis.
The two copies presented last Tuesday before the Congress of the Republic of Mexico were taken from Peru completely illegally, without any authorization from the Peruvian authorities. These mummified bodies are part of the cultural heritage of Peru. They should be in a local museum in Nasca, not in Mexico City.
We hope that the Peruvian authorities can clarify this totally anomalous situation and achieve the return of these cultural objects.
Concerned about the protection and preservation of Peruvian cultural heritage, the Inkarri Institute will remain attentive to the outcome of this case.
Sincerely, from the Heart of the Andes,
Cusco, September 14, 2023
Thierry Jamin
President of the
Inkarri Institute Cusco
José Casafranca Montès
Vice president
Edward Valenzuela Gil
Communication Manager
So ut is really unclear what is going on because he was quite happy to deal with JM as seen in these various videos on this page
https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/nasca-mummies-josefina/ (https://www.the-alien-project.com/en/nasca-mummies-josefina/)
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🤣 well somethings happening and it's er lol ... like out there.
Dr Steven Greer (I've made my opinion clear) is going completely off book. But there is also a rather large something coming as well. But Greer has either completely overdosed on his meds or this is happening.
1. Tim Burchette and Luna issued Thomas Monheim (head of the ICIG that investigated Gruschs claims and found them credible and urgent) a request for any and all investigative data regarding David Grusch to be passed on or released. Specifically the details of Thomas Monheims investigation and what he found that flagged this as credible and urgent. They set a time frame for a response which was up today.
Monheim responded. Shown below. But now Greer explains where this is going next ... I mean ... just wow ok then.
https://x.com/MikeColangelo/status/1702755015784366294?s=20
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ)
“We find no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial in origin,” said team lead David Spergel at Princeton University during the press conference. “Most events are explainable as planes, balloons, drones, weather phenomena and instrument features.”
NASA Independent Panel report.
That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
Unknown doesn't translate to aliens or anything, it means... UNKNOWN very simple, it couldn't be identified because the structure was too old or had been destroyed. Finding nothing is not a way to jump to the conclusion that it's something else.
Thank you Peter for explaining the obvious. Just answering a question. Don't panic no one is challenging your religious beliefs.
Well when someone and their cult religion insists that Unknown some how means extraterrestrial by default, the obvious does need to be explained. And when it's the NASA panel not the Congressional panel and you answer as if it was the second, that needs to be explained, even if obvious.
Not known, as in missing, can't be determined, doesn't become proof of the pseudo-science unknown. It's not evidence of something, it's lack of anything that can be known for sure.
Maybe since there are supposed to be aliens in captivity, dead or alive and the Govt. is reverse engineering craft. How about a photo? Everyone has phones now and there are no secrets. Where's the proof of the claims?
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ)
“We find no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial in origin,” said team lead David Spergel at Princeton University during the press conference. “Most events are explainable as planes, balloons, drones, weather phenomena and instrument features.”
NASA Independent Panel report.
That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
Unknown doesn't translate to aliens or anything, it means... UNKNOWN very simple, it couldn't be identified because the structure was too old or had been destroyed. Finding nothing is not a way to jump to the conclusion that it's something else.
Thank you Peter for explaining the obvious. Just answering a question. Don't panic no one is challenging your religious beliefs.
Well when someone and their cult religion insists that Unknown some how means extraterrestrial by default, the obvious does need to be explained. And when it's the NASA panel not the Congressional panel and you answer as if it was the second, that needs to be explained, even if obvious.
Not known, as in missing, can't be determined, doesn't become proof of the pseudo-science unknown. It's not evidence of something, it's lack of anything that can be known for sure.
Maybe since there are supposed to be aliens in captivity, dead or alive and the Govt. is reverse engineering craft. How about a photo? Everyone has phones now and there are no secrets. Where's the proof of the claims?
Sorry my mistake I assumed you only came here to troll. So clearly then you would like access to the classified material showing alien bodies, UAP back engineering programmes and the like. Ok fine.
You fo course jave used the proforma knocking about to contact your local member of Congress to voice your request. Yes? I can supply you with the details for your state. Or you can do a more personal one. How would you like.to proceed?
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I guess Pete isn't interested after all. Like a stock cube PSL. Plop, Stir, Leave.
Annnnyway during the David Grusch hearings senator Matt Gaetz referred to an incident ... "I was called to go to Eglin AFB to deal with a situation that had been made aware of. We were met by the base commander and told we had wasted our time. We were shown unto a room and shown a few bits of data and told to go home. We were promised pilots and we were refused pilots. So I made a few calls and he was briefed on authority and clearances and we got access to the pilots and footage"
until now this has been classified and denied.
https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/us-air-force-reports-mysterious-gulf-of-mexico-incident-to-pentagons-ufo-office (https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/us-air-force-reports-mysterious-gulf-of-mexico-incident-to-pentagons-ufo-office)
The Department of Defense (DoD) has officially confirmed to Liberation Times that the United States Air Force (USAF) has submitted a report about an incident involving an unknown object that occurred earlier this year to its Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP) office, known as the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO).
Very good read about something that was claimed as false.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
Thank you for your service.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'
if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'
if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!
And clearly you have read nothing posted at all. Have no interest in the subject. Have no clue what hypocrisy means and can't help but posting and exposing your rather nasty nature.
Odd you state that any 'criticism'.... well there shouldn't be any should there. Because if you had any sense you wouldn't repeatedly keep posing your toxic opinions in a thread you repeatedly claim is nonsense.
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Jesse Marcel Jr - Roswell Incident - full interview with National Enquirer 1979 released by National Archive I believe in the last two days.
https://unknownboundaries.com/12640-2/
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.
Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.
Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.
Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.
Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.
But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
For what it's worth, I don't know what the origin of UFOs is. But weird things are happening, as acknowledged by people from the US government. Credible and intelligent people, like Nolan and Elizondo had access to classified information and they say some interesting things in interviews, at least stuff that they are allowed to say.
I don't care what you believe. For me it is an interesting subject; if true, it is one of the biggest stories in the history of mankind. For many people, this thing can be a huge shock, so it plausible that more detailed knowledge is classified.
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the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'
if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!
"It is hearsay therefore it is nonsense and cannot be true" - facepalm. Any report that is contrary to your belief system must be false, by definition. White-swan world.
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
Most of the ad hominem attacks and ridicule have been done by denialists a.k.a. white-swan theorists.
I am not sure you should ask about "evidence", for your own sanity. I think you are not ready for "evidence". People in this thread are running berserk only at the mention of some hypotheses. Hypotheses! Now imagine a real black-swan event and its effect on societies.
For what it's worth, I don't care what you believe in and I don't know myself what the origin of UFOs is. But discrediting and ridiculing all reports is super lame, it is a kindergarten level of discussion. Yes, there have been many hoaxes in this field, but now some very serious people are onboard and ridiculing them is pathetic.
If you at least listened to some interviews with Elizondo or Nolan, it could broaden your horizons. They are not trying to convince anyone to believe in anything. But they have had access to more information than average people and share what they are allowed to say.
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
Now mummies from space. Don't ruin the childish fantasy with made up stories. This is total nonsense.
As you apparently have nothing constructive or interesting to contribute, you wasted a fantastic opportunity to remain silent.
You have no understanding of scientific method or how real science works. You can pretend your make believe UFO fantasy is real, and live in denial. You can ignore and ridicule anything that doesn't fit your blind closed minded belief. The truth is out there and not what you rant on about for 20 pages. Repeating the lies won't make them true. Attacking others here is not answering questions or looking at the facts. You are deflecting and avoiding.
Your religion is a cult belief, aliens from space.
How embarrassing ... "or looking at the facts". Wow. Clearly isn't keeping up with any news at all. Hasnt read the posts at all. Hasn't verified any facts. Jesus utterly toe curling. Apprently this is an ad hominem attack. The claim of a hypocritic fool, particularly as the majority of her histrionics were personal in nature.
Perhaps you would like to contact Bill Nelson at NASA and tell him your in depth analysis and to stop wasting money looking at data. Personally I would. National "Aeronautics" etc ... but while showcasing "science at work" and proudly publishing their assement of declassified UAP footage and claiming it of no value managed to bungle the maths and forgot to include in their calculations of things ... wind speed. Overshadows your random rant some what. Marginally.
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How embarrassing ... "or looking at the facts". Wow. Clearly isn't keeping up with any news at all. Hasnt read the posts at all. Hasn't verified any facts. Jesus utterly toe curling. Apprently this is an ad hominem attack. The claim of a hypocritic fool, particularly as the majority of her histrionics were personal in nature....
emphasis added
wow - hoist on your own petard in a single sentence!
-- you ask for facts when you provide none
-- you ask that we read your posts & links while admitting you havent bothered to do so
-- you continue ad hominems rather than respond to the content
are you really asking to be banned? you've already been given more leniency that people who have been banned for much less. but then, i guess a ban would just prove your conspiracy theories.
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Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.
Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.
But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?
Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:
All swans that we know of are white as adults.
This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.
So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:
"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"
On the other hand, if some people would start to claim that they saw swans that spew fire or that they have been abducted by swans, than your average biologist would probably tell them that they do not believe that without irrefutable hard evidence. And I would agree.
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John Greenwald Jr -
John is onwer of black vault.com which stores results of a tonne of freedom of information requests. It is a very good resource. John began 26 years ago and is extremely knowledgeable on the laws surrounding FOI requests and what someone is entitled to know.
However this year John began submitted FOI requests to AARO specifying particular events that are public knowledge and a matter of public record now. However Sean Kirkpatric has taken a extremely unusual and probably unlawful step to prevent complying with any FOI requests. He has invoked the law enforcement exception to withold any information pertaining to the submitted FOIs. AARO is not a law enforcement agency and has no powers in this respect and yet has been using that legislation to avoid a response.
At present Congress it appears does not have a mechanism to prevent him doing so.
John has sent 11 follow up letters and appeals and has been ignored. Utterly extraordinary behaviour from a governmental body. Particularly as Kirkpatric has stated (not under oath and that is exceptionally relevant) to congress that AARO have not investigated anything that is of a non mundane explanation. A claim that has since been voided by AAROs own hurriedly erected website which shows UAP that have not be explained even after their investigations.
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How embarrassing ... "or looking at the facts". Wow. Clearly isn't keeping up with any news at all. Hasnt read the posts at all. Hasn't verified any facts. Jesus utterly toe curling. Apprently this is an ad hominem attack. The claim of a hypocritic fool, particularly as the majority of her histrionics were personal in nature....
emphasis added
wow - hoist on your own petard in a single sentence!
-- you ask for facts when you provide none
-- you ask that we read your posts & links while admitting you havent bothered to do so
-- you continue ad hominems rather than respond to the content
are you really asking to be banned? you've already been given more leniency that people who have been banned for much less. but then, i guess a ban would just prove your conspiracy theories.
I am certain you have made more than one petition for this thread to be closed along with your chums and a ban put in place but a moderator would probably examine your contributions and would have to bury you for months in exclusion.
You should buy a book on sayings and do some research. Totally cringe.
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..The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.
no, curiosity is a useful trait of the researcher, but the foundation of science is posing a falsifiable hypothesis then conducting research to confirm or deny it. please post the peer reviewed UFO-related publications of the people you say do science
Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.
But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
For what it's worth, I don't know what the origin of UFOs is. But weird things are happening, as acknowledged by people from the US government. Credible and intelligent people, like Nolan and Elizondo had access to classified information and they say some interesting things in interviews, at least stuff that they are allowed to say.....
which critics here have said alien visits MUST be false? instead we ask for some actual evidence -- the results so far are that a few reports re UNEXPLAINED. it's those who claim they've found black swans to present actual evidence., not hide behind conspiracy theories that classified info is proof of extraterrestrials.
many classified items are for national security - that we broke Enigma wasn't admitted for 50 years. and much classified info may not really need to be classified, but the fact of classification doesnt prove anything about UFO aliens
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I am certain you have made more than one petition for this thread to be closed along with your chums and a ban put in place but a moderator would probably examine your contributions and would have to bury you for months in exclusion.
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glad you're certain you know what i've done. i made no such petition - among several others, i have the ability to ban a user who continually violates forum rules after several warnings. i've done this twice in the last 15 years
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Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.
Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.
But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?
Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:
All swans that we know of are white as adults.
This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.
So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:
"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"
Do you understand the concept of a metaphor?
Once again:
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
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the story this far - lots of hearsay, rumors and conspiracy nonsense - actual evidence? NADA. and any critiques are met with ad hominem attacks rather than addressing the serious lack of evidence other than 'i know a guy who said they knew somebody who saw something'
if posts had to be constructive or interesting this thread would be done - all we get are rumors and links the posters havent even read!
"It is hearsay therefore it is nonsense and cannot be true" - facepalm. Any report that is contrary to your belief system must be false, by definition. White-swan world.
please quote anyone who has made such a silly claim
hearsay cannot be considered true though, until some actual evidence is presented - that's one reason hearsay is not allowed in courts
Most of the ad hominem attacks and ridicule have been done by denialists a.k.a. white-swan theorists.
Most? please quote such attacks
perhaps your still confusing the difference between questioning an idea and personal attacks
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I am certain you have made more than one petition for this thread to be closed along with your chums and a ban put in place but a moderator would probably examine your contributions and would have to bury you for months in exclusion.
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glad you're certain you know what i've done. i made no such petition - among several others, i have the ability to ban a user who continually violates forum rules after several warnings. i've done this twice in the last 15 years
Then your behaviour is even more reprehensible.
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Denialism is also a form of religious fanticism. It has nothing to do with science. The foundation of science is curiosity. Without curiosity you can't have science, so denialists should not pretend to be pro-science. People like Garry Nolan or Avi Loeb do science. And science at the highest level, for that matter. They certainly don't lack curiosity.
Denialism is basically a white-swan theory.
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
Denialists will try to discredit and ridicule all people and reports that are contrary to their beliefs. No matter what, any kind of reports of black swans must be false, because black swans are not possible. In this forum, it has grown to a religious fanaticism.
But all it takes is a single black-swan event, and a white-swan worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
Who has ever formulated a "white-swan thoery"?
Even if we ignore the fact that young swans are generally not white, I doubt that any scientist has ever formulated something that goes beyond:
All swans that we know of are white as adults.
This does not exclude the possibility that other swan species may be black or that some mutation might cause an adult swan to be grey or black.
So, I have to ask you: who has ever stated anything like:
"Swans in other colors than white are not possible"
Do you understand the concept of a metaphor?
Once again:
https://mythsexplained.substack.com/p/all-swans-are-white
I do understand what a metaphor is, but this one just does not work, because it insinuates that scientist have formulated that kind of theory in the past, when that is very likely not true.
Quote from your link:
"The myth of "all swans are white" is a classic example of an idea that has been historically believed in Europe, where there are no black swans."
This may have been a popular believe among non.scientists, but a scientist would rather have stated something like:
"The mute swan is white as an adult"
First, this does not say anything about other species.
Second, it does not categorically exclude the possiblity that there is the odd adult mute swan that is not white for whatever reason.
A 17th century might even have said something along the lines of:
"Adult swans are white"
But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.
If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.
So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.
So the "denialist" are kind of proposing the "No swan abducts people theory", rather than the "All swans are white theory".
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which critics here have said alien visits MUST be false? instead we ask for some actual evidence -- the results so far are that a few reports re UNEXPLAINED.
1. It is my impression that all denialists active here reject the possibility of alien visits. Let's reverse the question then: which denialists here entertain the possibility of alien visits? But: when you say "alien" (in the sense 'extraterrestrial') - it is already an assumption and an interpretation. If you listen to serious people who have been researching this subject for long, e.g. Valleé or Nolan - they generally don't make that assumption anymore. In fact, they moved away from the extraterrestrial hypothesis.
2. Demanding 'evidence' in a forum like this is ridiculous and unfair. Do you expect somebody to leak some classified Pentagon, Lockheed, Raytheon documents in Microstockgroup (assuming such documents exist)? That is nonsense. You need to realize where we come from and where we are now, regarding the subject. Anyone with thinking skills and true interest in the subject will know that a lot has changed since 2017. That year seems to have been a pivotal moment. The phenomenon was officially acknowledged, even though there was no official interpretation. And then the Elizondo guy appeared on the scene, dropping "breadcrumbs", as he calls the information that he is allowed to share.
Is it plausible that some compelling evidence and details are classified and there are factions opposing the disclosure? I think it is plausible. Plausible doesn't mean it is certain, but it very well could be true. Imagine going to a muslim country and present them "evidence" that everything what they believe in is false. You would not make it out alive and it would create a gigantic mess.
Now, this thread paradoxically shows why releasing compelling evidence to the public may be problematic. Only mentioning the subject has pushed several participants to ridicule the subject, and to demand that the subject is swept under the carpet because it is nonsense, not real, fantasy, etc. These people did not propose any alternative explanations, any hypotheses which could be defended.
I think right now all we can do is try to connect the dots, or Elizondo's "breadcrumbs". Something weird is definitely going on and it is perfectly fine to make speculations and formulate hypotheses. But ridiculing other's hypotheses and not provide anything alternative is lame and pathetic.
You do have reports of experiencers and researchers. You don't need to believe all of them. Some are known hoaxers, some are not credible. You can try to assess their credibility and seriousness on an individual level. You can try to verify the facts or even go with a gut feeling. But discrediting all of them a priori is lame - it is a white-swan bias.
Do I think Elizondo is credible? I think he is either credible or one of the best actors in the world. Could he be part of some psyops? I cannot exclude such a possibility, but nevertheless, he does have very interesting things to say. And I do think that he has seen things.
At the moment, it really looks like there are attempts to disclose something, whatever it is. And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.
Instead sweeping the subject under the carpet, you can try to connect the dots for yourself, come up with your own hypothesis and not bash people who dare to talk about the subject.
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And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.
Any information about UFOs should not fall into the hands of the Russians or China. All technologies of extraterrestrial origin are a secret and a military secret.
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But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.
If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.
So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.
No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.
For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?
You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.
A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.
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But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.
If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.
So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.
No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.
For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?
You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.
A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.
In fact, I am a believer in black swans. I just saw a pair of them a few days ago in a zoo.
I do not believe in swans abducting people, though. So, show me comparable evidence for extraterrestial involvement in the "UFO phenomenon" and I'll become a believer there, too.
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And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.
Any information about UFOs should not fall into the hands of the Russians or China. All technologies of extraterrestrial origin are a secret and a military secret.
Ironically it is those very countries that are now leading the thrust to disclosure. America isn't even close. And as of Friday has taken steps (c/o Senator Mike Turner) to ensure that remains the case. Russia and China are being and have been very explicit and open about their knowledge and I terractions with UAP. The leader regarding disclosure appears to be Brazil. The UK remains firm that it ceased investigations in 2009 and has not re-instated any such programmes. This is a lie as it is part of the 5 eyes group and as such liased along with America to task Canada to co-operate with potential retrieval of "something" from Alaska earlier this year.
Further more the UK have deliberately taken certain steps to prevent the public finding out about certain cases. Rendlesham being the most infamous but there is a lesser known case. The Calvine incident in Scotland. Now whatever your beliefs regarding UAP and origins the Calvine incident is one of the most significant. It has typically slipped under the radar of popular ufology but there are about to be some changes regarding that case.
The short version is that two poachers happened upon a large ufo in Scotland. They took photos as proof and ran. They approached a paper to publicise the case. The paper approached a local military station for comment because the poachers interacted with the ufo as two fighter jets. A military representative was contacted by the paper and asked to see the photos. They obliged and then quite a bit happens.
The case was investaged by the MOD and they have held the details of that case under the official secrets act. This prevented disclosure of the details of the case until mandatory release some 30 years later. 30 years expired in 2020. release of information under foi was greatly anticipated but just prior to the 30 year expiry date being reached .....
.... the Ministry of Defence stepped in and extended the time period to a new date: 2076. The official claim is that parts of the file are open for download but details of individuals involved have been redacted until this time frame to protect individuals privacy. The MOD deny they saw any photographs and that any jets were involved. The FOI requests states that the negatives which had been leant to the MOD were returned to the newspaper at the time.
It is acts like this by governmental bodies that fuel speculation about UAP and their origins. Clearly withholding information. The whereabouts of the poachers is a mystery. Maybe they'll read this and come foreward. Who knows. If only the pictures hadn't been confiscated and no record of them found. This was certainly the case. Until recently
So the phenomena is global. Allegedly all the major powers possess them. No country has managed to get very far in researching them. Allegedly. But they are not limited to blurry dots on grainy film. The phoenix craft was reported on numerous ocassions to be 1 to 2 miles long. A police officer took out his speed gun and fired it at the craft registering 22 mph.
The Calvine UFO ...
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But this was then a general statements about the swans observed so far and did not exclude the possibility that black swans may be discovered elsewhere.
If someone theorized about black adult swans in 17th century Europe, than they spoke about something that had not yet been observed, but might well exist, according to the knowledge of the time.
So I hope you see the difference to the UFO theories today. They not only make claims that have not yet been proven true, but may well be true, but they make claims that are very unlikely to be true. Just like swans spewing fire or abducting people.
No, you don't get the metaphor, you're just trying to convolute it.
For what it's worth, our knowledge of the Universe and the wider reality is not much greater than the knowledge of the Earth's fauna in 17th century Europe. "claims that are very unlikely to be true" - unlikely within our very limited (mainstream) understanding of reality?
You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.
A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.
In fact, I am a believer in black swans. I just saw a pair of them a few days ago in a zoo.
I do not believe in swans abducting people, though. So, show me comparable evidence for extraterrestial involvement in the "UFO phenomenon" and I'll become a believer there, too.
It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions.
And I thought I was the one supposed to make the jokes in this thread.
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions.
And I thought I was the one supposed to make the jokes in this thread.
Only our arrogance prevents us from believing its possible. Didn't say which planet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landings_on_extraterrestrial_bodies
And from those locations we ... are alien ;D and I kinda like your jokes because they feel light hearted not malicious.
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So the phenomena is global. Allegedly all the major powers possess them. No country has managed to get very far in researching them. Allegedly.
The Russians do not have the research potential to study UFOs. The Russians may find a UFO, but they won't understand anything about it.
Therefore, any information that is declassified by the United States and other NATO countries will give the Russians a clue.
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So the phenomena is global. Allegedly all the major powers possess them. No country has managed to get very far in researching them. Allegedly.
The Russians do not have the research potential to study UFOs. The Russians may find a UFO, but they won't understand anything about it.
Therefore, any information that is declassified by the United States and other NATO countries will give the Russians a clue.
Well personally I believe that perspective is incorrect. Russia has incredible scientists. They may lack economic money but they don't lack money. They have a bottomless wealth and resources. It will come down to political will.
The problem that the US have is that Russia and in fact China do not have anywhere near the restraint that the US have. So they will forge ahead and deal with the consequences as apposed to being restricted by something as mundane as safety. Political will supercedes many things. And it would be quite short sighted to believe they are stupid compared to the US. It just isn't a factor. Not even a bit. Possibly even the other way round.
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
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So the phenomena is global. Allegedly all the major powers possess them. No country has managed to get very far in researching them. Allegedly.
The Russians do not have the research potential to study UFOs. The Russians may find a UFO, but they won't understand anything about it.
Therefore, any information that is declassified by the United States and other NATO countries will give the Russians a clue.
Well personally I believe that perspective is incorrect. Russia has incredible scientists. They may lack economic money but they don't lack money. They have a bottomless wealth and resources. It will come down to political will.
You need to stop reading Russian propaganda. In russia there are no scientists of the level you are talking about. The Russians cannot properly build not only their air defense, but also their planes and missiles. Their spaceships fall on the moon and crash. Half of the missiles which Russians launch at Ukrainian women and children fall on the territory of the Russian empire itself. All the money and resources in Russia are stolen by Tsar putin.
All science and the power of the Russians is built exclusively on myths that are spread by Russian propaganda. This propaganda called the Russian army the second army in the world. Ukraine, which does not have even a 10th share of Russia's resources, has already been able to eliminate half of the Russian army.
What have Russian scientists given to the world over the past 30 years? The answer is nothing.
The war in Ukraine showed that no one in the world wants to buy Russian weapons anymore. Russian weapons are ineffective weapons that can only kill women and children.
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The problem that the US have is that Russia and in fact China do not have anywhere near the restraint that the US have. So they will forge ahead and deal with the consequences as apposed to being restricted by something as mundane as safety. Political will supercedes many things. And it would be quite short sighted to believe they are stupid compared to the US. It just isn't a factor. Not even a bit. Possibly even the other way round.
I don't understand what you want to say. What problem does the USA have? And who will fight what consequences?
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
you'll have to check 2 posts under that original post. It was perspective humour.
Erm so with regard to your comments if we were in a room together I'd have a better handle on what context you're coming from. If you are a flag waving American then maybe your perspective is I'd say screwed. If you're Russian then I see aspects of what you're saying accurate and if you're Ukranian then ... well it would make a lot of sense. There were many examples through history that show the Russians to be a dirt poor nation. Ruby Wax visiting Rissia was permitted to buy pizza but her Russian guide wasn't. They built two single skin titanium submarines that were maybe still are far superior in certain aspects to any competitor. But it was always states this nearly destroyed the country due to costs. These snippets have always been the case. But even during these sanctions you can find Russians online who are filming supermarkets and various other places and there is no shortage of everyday vituals. Half an army means very little when you have nuclear arms as a backstop. They have developed a far superior radar system and energy weapon system in the last ... if I remember rightly 15 years ago is when I found out. I admit I don't go looking often it's just not my thing. But what is a fact is that science is science and you cannot legitimately claim that Russia and China wouldn't understand what they were looking at. Factually they just dont care as much about danger. This gives them the edge in any conflict. And the only reason Ukraine have managed to stave off Russian invasion is ... well I'll give you 70 billion+ reasons. Rightly so obviously it is an atrocity... but it isnt because they are any better than the Russian army. You have disasters like tank design. Omitting a secure wall between the weapons bay and the soldiers was as they've found to their costs a massive strategic failing. But its quite silly to claim their scientific community is less than anywhere else. As I said science is science and anyone can educate themselves to apply scientifc principles. Or they take them ... like America did after WW2.
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In fact, I am a believer in black swans. I just saw a pair of them a few days ago in a zoo.
I do not believe in swans abducting people, though. So, show me comparable evidence for extraterrestial involvement in the "UFO phenomenon" and I'll become a believer there, too.
Dude, I couldn't care less about what you believe in. I am not proselytizing anyone. As a matter of fact, 'believe' is a very dangerous word. I don't "believe" in any hypothesis regarding the origin of UFOs. I just acknowledge them as potential explanations. I like to listen to people who have been researching the subject for very long. Some seem more credible and knowledgeable than others. And I think it is stupid to discard and discredit all of them as fraudsters.
Hundreds of years ago, some people in Europe claimed that black swans were not possible - without having explored the whole of the Earth. That was arrogant. Right now, people claim that it is not possible that NHIs are behind UFOs - without having explored the Universe or understanding the nature of reality. Different centuries, the same kind of arrogance.
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
you'll have to check 2 posts under that original post. It was perspective humour.
Erm so with regard to your comments if we were in a room together I'd have a better handle on what context you're coming from. If you are a flag waving American then maybe your perspective is I'd say screwed. If you're Russian then I see aspects of what you're saying accurate and if you're Ukranian then ... well it would make a lot of sense. There were many examples through history that show the Russians to be a dirt poor nation. Ruby Wax visiting Rissia was permitted to buy pizza but her Russian guide wasn't. They built two single skin titanium submarines that were maybe still are far superior in certain aspects to any competitor. But it was always states this nearly destroyed the country due to costs. These snippets have always been the case. But even during these sanctions you can find Russians online who are filming supermarkets and various other places and there is no shortage of everyday vituals. Half an army means very little when you have nuclear arms as a backstop. They have developed a far superior radar system and energy weapon system in the last ... if I remember rightly 15 years ago is when I found out. I admit I don't go looking often it's just not my thing. But what is a fact is that science is science and you cannot legitimately claim that Russia and China wouldn't understand what they were looking at. Factually they just dont care as much about danger. This gives them the edge in any conflict. And the only reason Ukraine have managed to stave off Russian invasion is ... well I'll give you 70 billion+ reasons. Rightly so obviously it is an atrocity... but it isnt because they are any better than the Russian army. You have disasters like tank design. Omitting a secure wall between the weapons bay and the soldiers was as they've found to their costs a massive strategic failing. But its quite silly to claim their scientific community is less than anywhere else. As I said science is science and anyone can educate themselves to apply scientifc principles. Or they take them ... like America did after WW2.
Evidence ? make that ❓
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
you'll have to check 2 posts under that original post. It was perspective humour.
Erm so with regard to your comments if we were in a room together I'd have a better handle on what context you're coming from. If you are a flag waving American then maybe your perspective is I'd say screwed. If you're Russian then I see aspects of what you're saying accurate and if you're Ukranian then ... well it would make a lot of sense. There were many examples through history that show the Russians to be a dirt poor nation. Ruby Wax visiting Rissia was permitted to buy pizza but her Russian guide wasn't. They built two single skin titanium submarines that were maybe still are far superior in certain aspects to any competitor. But it was always states this nearly destroyed the country due to costs. These snippets have always been the case. But even during these sanctions you can find Russians online who are filming supermarkets and various other places and there is no shortage of everyday vituals. Half an army means very little when you have nuclear arms as a backstop. They have developed a far superior radar system and energy weapon system in the last ... if I remember rightly 15 years ago is when I found out. I admit I don't go looking often it's just not my thing. But what is a fact is that science is science and you cannot legitimately claim that Russia and China wouldn't understand what they were looking at. Factually they just dont care as much about danger. This gives them the edge in any conflict. And the only reason Ukraine have managed to stave off Russian invasion is ... well I'll give you 70 billion+ reasons. Rightly so obviously it is an atrocity... but it isnt because they are any better than the Russian army. You have disasters like tank design. Omitting a secure wall between the weapons bay and the soldiers was as they've found to their costs a massive strategic failing. But its quite silly to claim their scientific community is less than anywhere else. As I said science is science and anyone can educate themselves to apply scientifc principles. Or they take them ... like America did after WW2.
Evidence ? make that ❓
Sure look a couple of pages back 😊
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Following that on reddit. They even released DNA data.
Waiting for this to hit front page news.
They should send these corpses to other Universities around the world or invite their specialists to come in.
Recycled aliens. ;D
During the presentation, a team that included Mexican journalist Jaime Maussan and military medical doctor José de Jesús Zalce Benítez presented two bodies — which appear to be no more than 3.3 feet (1 meter) tall and appear skinny with grayish skin and large heads — in coffin-like boxes before Mexico's congress. They claimed that DNA tests reveal that the remains of these three-fingered beings are not human and that their abdomens hold eggs that may be used in reproduction. The duo also said the bodies came from Peru and that radiocarbon dating shows they date back 1,000 years, National Public Radio reported.
The same bodies made headlines in 2017 and 2018, Maussan told Live Science in an email. At the time, scholars denounced those bodies as consisting of manipulated human body parts. Maussan told Live Science that since that time, more tests have shown that the bodies are not human. He also stressed that he is not saying these bodies are necessarily alien — just that they are not human.
https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/this-is-complete-nonsense-scientists-rail-against-alien-bodies-shown-before-mexican-congress (https://www.livescience.com/archaeology/this-is-complete-nonsense-scientists-rail-against-alien-bodies-shown-before-mexican-congress)
Three fingers, 3.3 feet tall. Or this years latest?
"Terrified villagers in a rural district of Alto Nanay, north-east of Lima, Peru, claim they are under attack by 7ft tall armoured aliens that bear a striking resemblance to the Green Goblin from Spider-Man. According to the locals, these extraterrestrial beings have large heads and yellowish eyes, and they have been launching nightly attacks on the community since 11 July.
One alarming incident involved a 15-year-old girl who was reportedly grabbed from behind and had her neck cut when she resisted. The community members are living in fear, unable to sleep peacefully due to the constant threat."
I liked this story a fair question to what might aliens look like: https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/51686/5-scientific-theories-about-what-aliens-might-look (https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/51686/5-scientific-theories-about-what-aliens-might-look)
In the 1800s, people who claimed to have flown up into space in a motor powered balloon said the creatures up there looked like jellyfish. This was before flying saucers and talk of alien visitors but still interesting. Oh and they claimed they flew their aeroplane before the Wright Brothers, by many years. ???
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
you'll have to check 2 posts under that original post. It was perspective humour.
Erm so with regard to your comments if we were in a room together I'd have a better handle on what context you're coming from. If you are a flag waving American then maybe your perspective is I'd say screwed. If you're Russian then I see aspects of what you're saying accurate and if you're Ukranian then ... well it would make a lot of sense. There were many examples through history that show the Russians to be a dirt poor nation. Ruby Wax visiting Rissia was permitted to buy pizza but her Russian guide wasn't. They built two single skin titanium submarines that were maybe still are far superior in certain aspects to any competitor. But it was always states this nearly destroyed the country due to costs. These snippets have always been the case. But even during these sanctions you can find Russians online who are filming supermarkets and various other places and there is no shortage of everyday vituals. Half an army means very little when you have nuclear arms as a backstop. They have developed a far superior radar system and energy weapon system in the last ... if I remember rightly 15 years ago is when I found out. I admit I don't go looking often it's just not my thing. But what is a fact is that science is science and you cannot legitimately claim that Russia and China wouldn't understand what they were looking at. Factually they just dont care as much about danger. This gives them the edge in any conflict. And the only reason Ukraine have managed to stave off Russian invasion is ... well I'll give you 70 billion+ reasons. Rightly so obviously it is an atrocity... but it isnt because they are any better than the Russian army. You have disasters like tank design. Omitting a secure wall between the weapons bay and the soldiers was as they've found to their costs a massive strategic failing. But its quite silly to claim their scientific community is less than anywhere else. As I said science is science and anyone can educate themselves to apply scientifc principles. Or they take them ... like America did after WW2.
Evidence ? make that ❓
Sure look a couple of pages back 😊
Please be specific? What evidence, not conjecture, hypothetical or someone claims he knows someone who said they saw something. I mean, solid factual evidence. Not made up stories by someone like Lazar who says he saw things and has evidence, but he's not going to show his piece of Element 115 to anyone. "Lazar said that deep within an unconfirmed section of Area 51 called “S4,” he’d once worked on recovered extraterrestrial spacecraft for the US government."
Got a photo maybe?
“Grusch claims he has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.” “Quite a number,”
Anyone have a photo or maybe some piece of one of these?
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
you'll have to check 2 posts under that original post. It was perspective humour.
Erm so with regard to your comments if we were in a room together I'd have a better handle on what context you're coming from. If you are a flag waving American then maybe your perspective is I'd say screwed. If you're Russian then I see aspects of what you're saying accurate and if you're Ukranian then ... well it would make a lot of sense. There were many examples through history that show the Russians to be a dirt poor nation. Ruby Wax visiting Rissia was permitted to buy pizza but her Russian guide wasn't. They built two single skin titanium submarines that were maybe still are far superior in certain aspects to any competitor. But it was always states this nearly destroyed the country due to costs. These snippets have always been the case. But even during these sanctions you can find Russians online who are filming supermarkets and various other places and there is no shortage of everyday vituals. Half an army means very little when you have nuclear arms as a backstop. They have developed a far superior radar system and energy weapon system in the last ... if I remember rightly 15 years ago is when I found out. I admit I don't go looking often it's just not my thing. But what is a fact is that science is science and you cannot legitimately claim that Russia and China wouldn't understand what they were looking at. Factually they just dont care as much about danger. This gives them the edge in any conflict. And the only reason Ukraine have managed to stave off Russian invasion is ... well I'll give you 70 billion+ reasons. Rightly so obviously it is an atrocity... but it isnt because they are any better than the Russian army. You have disasters like tank design. Omitting a secure wall between the weapons bay and the soldiers was as they've found to their costs a massive strategic failing. But its quite silly to claim their scientific community is less than anywhere else. As I said science is science and anyone can educate themselves to apply scientifc principles. Or they take them ... like America did after WW2.
Evidence ? make that ❓
Sure look a couple of pages back 😊
Please be specific? What evidence, not conjecture, hypothetical or someone claims he knows someone who said they saw something. I mean, solid factual evidence. Not made up stories by someone like Lazar who says he saw things and has evidence, but he's not going to show his piece of Element 115 to anyone. "Lazar said that deep within an unconfirmed section of Area 51 called “S4,” he’d once worked on recovered extraterrestrial spacecraft for the US government."
Got a photo maybe?
“Grusch claims he has given Congress and the Intelligence Community Inspector General extensive classified information about deeply covert programs that he says possess retrieved intact and partially intact craft of non-human origin.” “Quite a number,”
Anyone have a photo or maybe some piece of one of these?
I can't stop you typing your consciousness stream unfiltered but I can minimise its impact on me. I said look back a couple of pages. You've just proved you thought it smarter to be a smart mouth. A constant theme with you. So one final time ... a couple of pages back it may even be the previous page. I'll not indulge your bs any longer.
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You just assume that the UFO phenomenon doesn't involve non-human intelligence, reject all kinds of proposed hypotheses, and yet you cannot formulate any other sensible hypothesis. Pure denial and nothing alternative to contribute.
A black-swan event is a single event that completely destroys a theory or a worldview. And therefore, denialism is an intellectually risky position, because it can be destroyed by such a single black-swan event.
first, thanks for continuing an actual discussion and responding to the content of posts rather than personal name-calling
any theory destroyed by 1 black swan was a poor theory to start with. scientists wouldn't make a statement such as 'there are no black swans' and you have yet to give an actual scientific example from the modern world
but you do keep classifying skeptics as 'deniers' ,but have yet to show any posts where critics here made those denials
i havent seen anyone assumpting there are no UFO-aliens (in part because it's impossible to prove a negative), and no one's rejecting your hypotheses. again - where did you see those posts? we're just asking you to present real evidence supporting those hypotheses.
and still waiting for links to peer reviewed publications from these Ufology 'experts'
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And there are pro-disclosure and anti-disclosure factions within the US government.
Any information about UFOs should not fall into the hands of the Russians or China. All technologies of extraterrestrial origin are a secret and a military secret.
but a more likely possibility for classification is it would show our abilities.
in WWII officials decided not to act on Enigma info about a German wolfpack forming to attack a convoy because it would show them we'd broken their code and would they'd switch all subsequent encryption.
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions. You just choose to believe this is not possible despite evidence to the contrary.
If this is a know scientific fact, maybe you can show the evidence?
silly boy! he don't need no stinkin' evidence
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....
In the 1800s, people who claimed to have flown up into space in a motor powered balloon said the creatures up there looked like jellyfish. This was before flying saucers and talk of alien visitors but still interesting. Oh and they claimed they flew their aeroplane before the Wright Brothers, by many years. ???
Jules Verne published reports of a voyage to the moon by a team shot from a BFG-type cannon, also on a group who were abducted when a comet knocked off a chunk of terra not-so-firma
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Hundreds of years ago, some people in Europe claimed that black swans were not possible - without having explored the whole of the Earth. That was arrogant.
So you say, yet so far you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that ANYONE, let alone a scientist of any repute, EVER said anything like that.
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Hundreds of years ago, some people in Europe claimed that black swans were not possible - without having explored the whole of the Earth. That was arrogant.
So you say, yet so far you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that ANYONE, let alone a scientist of any repute, EVER said anything like that.
The phrase "black swan" derives from a Latin expression; its oldest known occurrence is from the 2nd-century Roman poet Juvenal's characterization in his Satire VI of something being "rara avis in terris nigroque simillima cygno" ("a rare bird in the lands and very much like a black swan").[4]: 165 [5][6] When the phrase was coined, the black swan was presumed not to exist. The importance of the metaphor lies in its analogy to the fragility of any system of thought. A set of conclusions is potentially undone once any of its fundamental postulates is disproved. In this case, the observation of a single black swan would be the undoing of the logic of any system of thought, as well as any reasoning that followed from that underlying logic.
Juvenal's phrase was a common expression in 16th century London as a statement of impossibility.[7] The London expression derives from the Old World presumption that all swans must be white because all historical records of swans reported that they had white feathers.[8] In that context, a black swan was impossible or at least nonexistent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions.
And I thought I was the one supposed to make the jokes in this thread.
Only our arrogance prevents us from believing its possible. Didn't say which planet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landings_on_extraterrestrial_bodies
And from those locations we ... are alien ;D and I kinda like your jokes because they feel light hearted not malicious.
1. When people talk about "the planet" without further specification, it is kind of understood that they talk about the Earth. When you read the slogan "Save the planet", you probably don't think they mean Mars or Venus. Just like when you are in England and talk about the Queen (ok, now the King), it is understood that you mean the Queen of England and not the one of Denmark or the Netherlands.
2. I guess technically we are aliens on other planets in our solar system, however, as there is no one there to call us that, I am not sure how much sense such a designation really makes. Also please note that even if for example Martians existed, they could still not truthfully claim to have been visitied by aliens, since so far only unmanned spacecraft have landed on other planets (the moon is not a planet).
3. Most importantly, it is clear that interplanetary spacefaring is possible and that in the future people from Earth will likely visit Mars and possibly other planets. Interstellar space travel is a totally different thing, as the distances are incomparably larger and the star systems next to us are probably not inhabited. So even it we traveled there, we would probably not find other civilisations.
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any theory destroyed by 1 black swan was a poor theory to start with. scientists wouldn't make a statement such as 'there are no black swans' and you have yet to give an actual scientific example from the modern world
The phenomenon of terminal lucidity could potentially be a black swan for the materialist idea that the mind and consciousness are generated by the brain. And as such, for the whole materialist paradigm. Unless materialists come up with an explanation in the future, it probably is a black swan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_lucidity
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010032/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36160593/
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Hundreds of years ago, some people in Europe claimed that black swans were not possible - without having explored the whole of the Earth. That was arrogant.
So you say, yet so far you have failed to provide any evidence whatsoever that ANYONE, let alone a scientist of any repute, EVER said anything like that.
The phrase "black swan" derives from a Latin expression; its oldest known occurrence is from the 2nd-century Roman poet Juvenal's characterization in his Satire VI of something being "rara avis in terris nigroque simillima cygno" ("a rare bird in the lands and very much like a black swan").[4]: 165 [5][6] When the phrase was coined, the black swan was presumed not to exist. The importance of the metaphor lies in its analogy to the fragility of any system of thought. A set of conclusions is potentially undone once any of its fundamental postulates is disproved. In this case, the observation of a single black swan would be the undoing of the logic of any system of thought, as well as any reasoning that followed from that underlying logic.
Juvenal's phrase was a common expression in 16th century London as a statement of impossibility.[7] The London expression derives from the Old World presumption that all swans must be white because all historical records of swans reported that they had white feathers.[8] In that context, a black swan was impossible or at least nonexistent.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_swan_theory
It is one thing to assume that there are no black swans and a totally different thing to assume that they are impossible.
So can you name any person who stated that black swans are impossible?
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It is a known scientific fact that aliens have indeed infiltrated the air space of the planet and further more landed craft on numerous ocassions.
And I thought I was the one supposed to make the jokes in this thread.
Only our arrogance prevents us from believing its possible. Didn't say which planet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landings_on_extraterrestrial_bodies
And from those locations we ... are alien ;D and I kinda like your jokes because they feel light hearted not malicious.
1. When people talk about "the planet" without further specification, it is kind of understood that they talk about the Earth. When you read the slogan "Save the planet", you probably don't think they mean Mars or Venus. Just like when you are in England and talk about the Queen (ok, now the King), it is understood that you mean the Queen of England and not the one of Denmark or the Netherlands.
2. I guess technically we are aliens on other planets in our solar system, however, as there is no one there to call us that, I am not sure how much sense such a designation really makes. Also please note that even if for example Martians existed, they could still not truthfully claim to have been visitied by aliens, since so far only unmanned spacecraft have landed on other planets (the moon is not a planet).
3. Most importantly, it is clear that interplanetary spacefaring is possible and that in the future people from Earth will likely visit Mars and possibly other planets. Interstellar space travel is a totally different thing, as the distances are incomparably larger and the star systems next to us are probably not inhabited. So even it we traveled there, we would probably not find other civilisations.
You made the assumption. The wording was exact and specific. Pretty lame hair splitting. Little bit sad. Take it on the chin cupcake 🧁
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any theory destroyed by 1 black swan was a poor theory to start with. scientists wouldn't make a statement such as 'there are no black swans' and you have yet to give an actual scientific example from the modern world
The phenomenon of terminal lucidity could potentially be a black swan for the materialist idea that the mind and consciousness are generated by the brain. And as such, for the whole materialist paradigm. Unless materialists come up with an explanation in the future, it probably is a black swan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminal_lucidity
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20010032/
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36160593/
interesting set of links - we're wandering from the original topic into an area of actual scientific controversy. it's one i've followed for many years, and unfortunately, none of these relates to a black swan metaphor
the 1st 2 links however explore terminal lucidity (TL) in materialist terms. eg "We recommend in-depth studies on the psychopathology and neuropathology involved in terminal lucidity, since they might enable the development of both improved therapies and a better understanding of unresolved aspects of cognition and memory processing."
the larger point is that the materialist view isn't denial of other possibilities. it's an broad model which contains many different sub-models. it's a working hypothesis of our current state of knowledge, similar to our understanding of quantum mechanics which provides an explanation but is modified when dark matter & energy become known.
the wiki article doesn't say anything that couldn't be explained within the materialist model
the 3rd link is not easy reading but provokes many ideas, even while still discussing 'physicalist' theories before dropping io the 'non-local' ones
it's the 3rd article that expands the analysis and TL is at best a minor component. and the article starts by emphasizing the theoretical aspects of both materialist ideas and their own work:
"This review examines phenomena that apparently contradict the notion that consciousness is exclusively dependent on brain activity, including phenomena where consciousness appears to extend beyond the physical brain and body in both space and time. The mechanisms underlying these "non-local" properties are vaguely suggestive of quantum entanglement in physics, but how such effects might manifest remains highly speculative. The existence of these non-local effects appears to support the proposal that post-materialistic models of consciousness may be required to break the conceptual impasse presented by the hard problem of consciousness."
however, the actual theories being proposed for consciousness outside the mind-brain read like the best scifi - wonderful to contemplate, but difficult to move beyond the conceptual to actual hypotheses that can be tested
Further, many ideas within this model are gedanken experiments such as Searle's Chinese Room which proposes that computers cannot have a 'mind' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_room.
on the lighter side, i just finished an excellent scifi that explored these ideas - Petyer Watt's 'Blindsight'. also Liu Cixin's 'The 3 Body Problem' (coming to Netflix)
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Another 30 whistle blowers give evidence
https://youtu.be/CWb0UM6cNAQ?feature=shared
Michael Shelenberger article
https://public.substack.com/p/dozens-of-government-ufo-whistleblowers
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NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ)
“We find no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial in origin,” said team lead David Spergel at Princeton University during the press conference. “Most events are explainable as planes, balloons, drones, weather phenomena and instrument features.”
NASA Independent Panel report.
That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
Unknown doesn't translate to aliens or anything, it means... UNKNOWN very simple, it couldn't be identified because the structure was too old or had been destroyed. Finding nothing is not a way to jump to the conclusion that it's something else.
Thank you Peter for explaining the obvious. Just answering a question. Don't panic no one is challenging your religious beliefs.
Looks more like they are challenging your cult religious beliefs. Your denialist rants and personal attacks on anyone who questions your religion is over reaction to doubts. Why can't you answer or give us the evidence for the claims instead of many people, or calling them whistleblowers? Their whistle makes no sound just a stream of hot air.
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Another 30 whistle blowers give evidence ...
Michael Shelenberger article ...
Glendower: I can call UFO evidence from the vasty deep.
Hotspur: Why, so can I, or so can any man;
But is there hard evidence, when you do call for them?”
― apologies to William Shakespeare, King Henry IV, Part 1
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Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
-
NASA Report, Officials stressed the panel found no evidence that UAPs had extraterrestrial origin.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/nasa-s-ufo-task-force-has-released-its-final-report-it-s-not-aliens/ar-AA1gJtVJ)
“We find no evidence that UAPs are extraterrestrial in origin,” said team lead David Spergel at Princeton University during the press conference. “Most events are explainable as planes, balloons, drones, weather phenomena and instrument features.”
NASA Independent Panel report.
That said it only exhibits 70% human dna and 30% unknown.
?????
Unknown doesn't translate to aliens or anything, it means... UNKNOWN very simple, it couldn't be identified because the structure was too old or had been destroyed. Finding nothing is not a way to jump to the conclusion that it's something else.
Thank you Peter for explaining the obvious. Just answering a question. Don't panic no one is challenging your religious beliefs.
Looks more like they are challenging your cult religious beliefs. Your denialist rants and personal attacks on anyone who questions your religion is over reaction to doubts. Why can't you answer or give us the evidence for the claims instead of many people, or calling them whistleblowers? Their whistle makes no sound just a stream of hot air.
A blistering grasp on the reality of the situation. Until you pointed it out I thought I had started a thread to see if anyone had found any UAP caught by chance in their photography. And what I thought had happened was a bunch of feral brats had lumped on here to mock, patronise and throw any old tripe out there in some vague attempt to quell any responses.
Quite by chance a decorated officer of the USAF and top tier intelligence officer came forward to deliver a paradigm changing account. Despite having Stella credentials and the respect of his peers, the great knowledge bank that attended this thread treated us to a endless stream of hogwash.
But now that you have taken the time to give us your measured and knowledgeable account I truly feel ashamed. I have let myself down. But I'll live. Thank you for your wise words. Truly humbled by your contribution, whoever you are.
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Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
-
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
You mean the US congressional reps, have the evidence and they are withholding it? Will they answer and send me proof?
Have you written to yours? What state are you in?
YOU are making the claims, could you please supply some proof? 22 pages of conspiracy and something big is coming soon, and nothing but words. Does anyone have photos of all these crashed craft. Seems there are hundreds of them. Anyone have anything that's an alien, seems there are hundreds of different visitors dead or alive, but no one has a photo? Just some petrified fake composite body.
I wouldn't be surprised if these visitors were time travelers from the future or maybe dimensional parallels that are viewing and exploring. I'm much less likely to say, just because we see a UAP that somehow in a leap of logic, equals aliens from space. Mystery light does not = Aliens. It's just lights.
Scientific Method:
Ask a question about something you observe
Do background research to learn what is already known about the topic
Construct a hypothesis, or testable explanation
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis
Test the prediction by conducting an experiment
Analyze the data from the experiment and draw conclusions
Communicate the results to others
In that order, not the reverse and don't fudge the data by only taking what you want the evidence to prove and ignoring, denial, of anything that doesn't fit your preconceived agenda. Notice, communicate the results is last and with peer review and after study, then form conclusions.
-
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
You mean the US congressional reps, have the evidence and they are withholding it? Will they answer and send me proof?
Have you written to yours? What state are you in?
YOU are making the claims, could you please supply some proof? 22 pages of conspiracy and something big is coming soon, and nothing but words. Does anyone have photos of all these crashed craft. Seems there are hundreds of them. Anyone have anything that's an alien, seems there are hundreds of different visitors dead or alive, but no one has a photo? Just some petrified fake composite body.
I wouldn't be surprised if these visitors were time travelers from the future or maybe dimensional parallels that are viewing and exploring. I'm much less likely to say, just because we see a UAP that somehow in a leap of logic, equals aliens from space. Mystery light does not = Aliens. It's just lights.
Scientific Method:
Ask a question about something you observe
Do background research to learn what is already known about the topic
Construct a hypothesis, or testable explanation
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis
Test the prediction by conducting an experiment
Analyze the data from the experiment and draw conclusions
Communicate the results to others
In that order, not the reverse and don't fudge the data by only taking what you want the evidence to prove and ignoring, denial, of anything that doesn't fit your preconceived agenda. Notice, communicate the results is last and with peer review and after study, then form conclusions.
YOU will provide us with the names of all the Congress people YOU have contacted in order to help them understand that disclosure of whatever the government has, is important to you. And when you do that they reply. That's a known. So you'll have those responses to hand as well.
Now I'll let you know I didn't read any of the above because its the usual nonsese and we both know you've contacted zero Congress people. So you are either entirely disingenuous and just trolling here or you have contacted them and can provide the evidence. Until you do that ... rant away ... not interested and every avoidance post you make just makes matters more pathetic.
We wait with baited breath ...
-
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
You mean the US congressional reps, have the evidence and they are withholding it? Will they answer and send me proof?
Have you written to yours? What state are you in?
YOU are making the claims, could you please supply some proof? 22 pages of conspiracy and something big is coming soon, and nothing but words. Does anyone have photos of all these crashed craft. Seems there are hundreds of them. Anyone have anything that's an alien, seems there are hundreds of different visitors dead or alive, but no one has a photo? Just some petrified fake composite body.
I wouldn't be surprised if these visitors were time travelers from the future or maybe dimensional parallels that are viewing and exploring. I'm much less likely to say, just because we see a UAP that somehow in a leap of logic, equals aliens from space. Mystery light does not = Aliens. It's just lights.
Scientific Method:
Ask a question about something you observe
Do background research to learn what is already known about the topic
Construct a hypothesis, or testable explanation
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis
Test the prediction by conducting an experiment
Analyze the data from the experiment and draw conclusions
Communicate the results to others
In that order, not the reverse and don't fudge the data by only taking what you want the evidence to prove and ignoring, denial, of anything that doesn't fit your preconceived agenda. Notice, communicate the results is last and with peer review and after study, then form conclusions.
YOU will provide us with the names of all the Congress people YOU have contacted in order to help them understand that disclosure of whatever the government has, is important to you. And when you do that they reply. That's a known. So you'll have those responses to hand as well.
Now I'll let you know I didn't read any of the above because its the usual nonsese and we both know you've contacted zero Congress people. So you are either entirely disingenuous and just trolling here or you have contacted them and can provide the evidence. Until you do that ... rant away ... not interested and every avoidance post you make just makes matters more pathetic.
We wait with baited breath ...
It's useless to try to have a conversation or reason with you. If that was your goal, to silence anything that's not in line with your personal agenda, you win. I have better things to do with my time than take your personal attacks, name calling and abusive replies and then try to be reasonable in response.
-
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
You mean the US congressional reps, have the evidence and they are withholding it? Will they answer and send me proof?
Have you written to yours? What state are you in?
YOU are making the claims, could you please supply some proof? 22 pages of conspiracy and something big is coming soon, and nothing but words. Does anyone have photos of all these crashed craft. Seems there are hundreds of them. Anyone have anything that's an alien, seems there are hundreds of different visitors dead or alive, but no one has a photo? Just some petrified fake composite body.
I wouldn't be surprised if these visitors were time travelers from the future or maybe dimensional parallels that are viewing and exploring. I'm much less likely to say, just because we see a UAP that somehow in a leap of logic, equals aliens from space. Mystery light does not = Aliens. It's just lights.
Scientific Method:
Ask a question about something you observe
Do background research to learn what is already known about the topic
Construct a hypothesis, or testable explanation
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis
Test the prediction by conducting an experiment
Analyze the data from the experiment and draw conclusions
Communicate the results to others
In that order, not the reverse and don't fudge the data by only taking what you want the evidence to prove and ignoring, denial, of anything that doesn't fit your preconceived agenda. Notice, communicate the results is last and with peer review and after study, then form conclusions.
YOU will provide us with the names of all the Congress people YOU have contacted in order to help them understand that disclosure of whatever the government has, is important to you. And when you do that they reply. That's a known. So you'll have those responses to hand as well.
Now I'll let you know I didn't read any of the above because its the usual nonsese and we both know you've contacted zero Congress people. So you are either entirely disingenuous and just trolling here or you have contacted them and can provide the evidence. Until you do that ... rant away ... not interested and every avoidance post you make just makes matters more pathetic.
We wait with baited breath ...
It's useless to try to have a conversation or reason with you. If that was your goal, to silence anything that's not in line with your personal agenda, you win. I have better things to do with my time than take your personal attacks, name calling and abusive replies and then try to be reasonable in response.
Your idiotic demands are what got you where you are now.
You demand proof and you have been given proof. It's not the proof you will accept. You glibly call I hearsay.
There is so much idiotic claptrap you've posted here in virtually every post it beggars belief. Even when you have conceded you had a gut punch swipe along with it.
You have added nothing but abuse, sneering, mocking, disparaging and dismissive comments from the very first post.
And when ... when you are given an avenue to follow which is laid out not by me but by congressional bodies to ask for your congressperson to challenge the overclassification of military reporting regarding UAP .... you squirm and peddle that toxic crap.
No one forced your head up your nethers Pete and frog marched you in to this thread. You strutted in and dumped your unbidden opinion at length, repeatedly page after page. Fact. And call it attack that is the argument of a person eho has no defense for their actions. You have imparted nothing. Zero viable information. You have exploded continously and tried to force your uneducated opinion regarding historical events. Factual incursions into our air space. The credibility of a decorated veteran with more clearances than the president of the United States. Of decorated pilots. Of civilians and any objective thinking person. And you, you obsessed about aliens.
I for my part have responded to yours and others toxic bile with a mixture of surprise, information and eventually derision and now utter contempt. But I have still posted an edited timeline of events involving people who are at the coal face. When the thread hasn't been derailed by you and others as you have just aptly displayed.
Still no contact made by you to your congress person. Clearly no interest in the subject. Clearly your only task here is to foist your uneducated opinion and lack of awareness of events and when that didnt work you show off and claim you have better things to do.
THEN WHY ARE YOU HERE. AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN
Because you are an unpleasant individual is the impression I now have. Truly.
If you want proof that will satisfy you clearly I am not the person any sane person would ask. I don't have the job role, clearances, likely inteligence nor scientific background. But I have paid attention and I have enjoyed the journey for several decades.
Only a devisive, vindictive ____ would pretend otherwise to illicit tension. Congratulations you odious pedant.
-
..
-
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
You mean the US congressional reps, have the evidence and they are withholding it? Will they answer and send me proof?
Have you written to yours? What state are you in?
YOU are making the claims, could you please supply some proof? 22 pages of conspiracy and something big is coming soon, and nothing but words. Does anyone have photos of all these crashed craft. Seems there are hundreds of them. Anyone have anything that's an alien, seems there are hundreds of different visitors dead or alive, but no one has a photo? Just some petrified fake composite body.
I wouldn't be surprised if these visitors were time travelers from the future or maybe dimensional parallels that are viewing and exploring. I'm much less likely to say, just because we see a UAP that somehow in a leap of logic, equals aliens from space. Mystery light does not = Aliens. It's just lights.
Scientific Method:
Ask a question about something you observe
Do background research to learn what is already known about the topic
Construct a hypothesis, or testable explanation
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis
Test the prediction by conducting an experiment
Analyze the data from the experiment and draw conclusions
Communicate the results to others
In that order, not the reverse and don't fudge the data by only taking what you want the evidence to prove and ignoring, denial, of anything that doesn't fit your preconceived agenda. Notice, communicate the results is last and with peer review and after study, then form conclusions.
YOU will provide us with the names of all the Congress people YOU have contacted in order to help them understand that disclosure of whatever the government has, is important to you. And when you do that they reply. That's a known. So you'll have those responses to hand as well.
Now I'll let you know I didn't read any of the above because its the usual nonsese and we both know you've contacted zero Congress people. So you are either entirely disingenuous and just trolling here or you have contacted them and can provide the evidence. Until you do that ... rant away ... not interested and every avoidance post you make just makes matters more pathetic.
We wait with baited breath ...
It's useless to try to have a conversation or reason with you. If that was your goal, to silence anything that's not in line with your personal agenda, you win. I have better things to do with my time than take your personal attacks, name calling and abusive replies and then try to be reasonable in response.
He's not interested in conversation or questions, only the blind followers who won't question the obsession and cult beliefs. Only those who agree are allowed to comment. I'm done too. We can look forward to 22 more pages of unreliable and biased fake news links.
-
Sometimes, you need to reason like Sherlock Holmes - if you eliminate possibilities one by one - whatever is left will be true, no matter how unlikely it seems at first. If you cannot eliminate certain explanations with available knowledge - it sucks, but it sometimes happens and you just need to be patient.
Yes, glad you brought that up:
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts.”
― Sherlock Holmes
In you're determined quest for 'evidence' Peter how many congressional representatives have you sent word to, to encourage openness about UAP. It can't be zero obviously because in almost every post you claim a thirst for some evidence. So ... how many please.
You mean the US congressional reps, have the evidence and they are withholding it? Will they answer and send me proof?
Have you written to yours? What state are you in?
YOU are making the claims, could you please supply some proof? 22 pages of conspiracy and something big is coming soon, and nothing but words. Does anyone have photos of all these crashed craft. Seems there are hundreds of them. Anyone have anything that's an alien, seems there are hundreds of different visitors dead or alive, but no one has a photo? Just some petrified fake composite body.
I wouldn't be surprised if these visitors were time travelers from the future or maybe dimensional parallels that are viewing and exploring. I'm much less likely to say, just because we see a UAP that somehow in a leap of logic, equals aliens from space. Mystery light does not = Aliens. It's just lights.
Scientific Method:
Ask a question about something you observe
Do background research to learn what is already known about the topic
Construct a hypothesis, or testable explanation
Make a prediction based on the hypothesis
Test the prediction by conducting an experiment
Analyze the data from the experiment and draw conclusions
Communicate the results to others
In that order, not the reverse and don't fudge the data by only taking what you want the evidence to prove and ignoring, denial, of anything that doesn't fit your preconceived agenda. Notice, communicate the results is last and with peer review and after study, then form conclusions.
YOU will provide us with the names of all the Congress people YOU have contacted in order to help them understand that disclosure of whatever the government has, is important to you. And when you do that they reply. That's a known. So you'll have those responses to hand as well.
Now I'll let you know I didn't read any of the above because its the usual nonsese and we both know you've contacted zero Congress people. So you are either entirely disingenuous and just trolling here or you have contacted them and can provide the evidence. Until you do that ... rant away ... not interested and every avoidance post you make just makes matters more pathetic.
We wait with baited breath ...
It's useless to try to have a conversation or reason with you. If that was your goal, to silence anything that's not in line with your personal agenda, you win. I have better things to do with my time than take your personal attacks, name calling and abusive replies and then try to be reasonable in response.
He's not interested in conversation or questions, only the blind followers who won't question the obsession and cult beliefs. Only those who agree are allowed to comment. I'm done too. We can look forward to 22 more pages of unreliable and biased fake news links.
By all means prove your claim of unreliable and biased fake news links. Go ahead lol. This should be hilarious. Happy to discuss the topic and happy to discuss or watch others discuss ... as has happened on the previous pages ...
But now that you've made that statement I would like you to prove the fake news allegation.
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When did following actual 'science' and stating the obvious become offensive? This isn't just about UFOs it is also about, freedom of speech. I have a right to my opinion, without being attacked and called names. I won't be intimidated or silenced by your torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments. You don't answer any direct questions, but instead, avoid, deflect and distract.
I have a right to disagree without your abusive, bullying replies.
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When did following actual 'science' and stating the obvious become offensive? This isn't just about UFOs it is also about, freedom of speech. I have a right to my opinion, without being attacked and called names. I won't be intimidated or silenced by your torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments. You don't answer any direct questions, but instead, avoid, deflect and distract.
I have a right to disagree without your abusive, bullying replies.
exactly! and that's why it's important to call out nonsense & pseudo-science. the state of scientific knowledge in the US has been declining for years - more people believe in astrology than evolution, and it's reflected in real world damage - eg anti-vaxxers'
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When did following actual 'science' and stating the obvious become offensive? This isn't just about UFOs it is also about, freedom of speech. I have a right to my opinion, without being attacked and called names. I won't be intimidated or silenced by your torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments. You don't answer any direct questions, but instead, avoid, deflect and distract.
I have a right to disagree without your abusive, bullying replies.
none of which bares any relevance to anything I asked.You are offensive though and clearly see no wrong in anything you state. Your contribution ro this thread has been zero other than negative, mocking comments and as you see them, attacks. I just think it is attention seeking trivial drivel. I answer questions. I rebuff moronic statements. I have posted a timeline of events which you find pathetic and moronic.
What is rediculous is that despite behaving like a manchild and posting irrelevant clutter about it all being nonsense, you provide no evidence of such when asked.
Who to believe 🤔 various official bodies investigating the phenomena and individuals proven to have legitimate evidence by those bodies or ... you .. who's sole outlet on the subject is a thread they claim is a joke. And does so with full on arrogance and self belief. It's a hard choice granted but I'll have to side with those employed by governmnents to provide further information rather than you ... a random ... who posts lies.
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When did following actual 'science' and stating the obvious become offensive? This isn't just about UFOs it is also about, freedom of speech. I have a right to my opinion, without being attacked and called names. I won't be intimidated or silenced by your torrent of incorrect, irrelevant, or idiotic arguments. You don't answer any direct questions, but instead, avoid, deflect and distract.
I have a right to disagree without your abusive, bullying replies.
exactly! and that's why it's important to call out nonsense & pseudo-science. the state of scientific knowledge in the US has been declining for years - more people believe in astrology than evolution, and it's reflected in real world damage - eg anti-vaxxers'
You sell photos and hillwalking tours ... Steve. The font of all knowledge you aren't. Your role here isn't to call out anything unless someone posts incorrect advice on packing a rucksac. Your ego has emboldened you to expound beyond your remit. Another liar claiming factual events regarding UAP are nonsense despite official congressional evidence to the contrary. You picked a pretty pathetic location to build your moral highground. I certainly wouldn't employ you to lead the way to the shops. Clearly your issues aren't with UAP but anyone who doesn't agree with you and your skewed views on every subject. You're exhausting.
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Meanwhile in the real world ...
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AARO have published their latest findings
https://t.co/QOy6MjCAWa
It is a poor read and be warned it is very disingenuous. Whilst it is their genuine report there is a rather large issue with it. Their findings are very much a case of nothing to see here. But what they aren't being up front about is that this conclusion only takes into account declassified cases. Of which some still remain unexplained and they claim that given enough time these too would be resolved.
The problem is that, a lot of cases have been classified illegally. Anything that may reveal capabilities or lack thereof of the military are classified as a matter of course. And these are handed to special access programme trams. Not AARO. But Kirkpatrick claims that this is not true. Factually he is lying.
Matt Gaetz attended Eglin AFB to interview two pilots who witnessed a craft that Gaetz claims "there is nothing in his experience that would permit him to explain what he saw". And he saw it because the pilots had filmed it and photographed it. Their footage was confiscated and handed over. Gaetz was only permitted to see the photograph and associated radar imagery. Its not mentioned here but there is also footage.
https://youtu.be/zFk1Fv11xKw?feature=shared
Further more two people who ran the organisation that preceeded AARO have come foreward (with an inevitable book) but they have explained that there is a vast library of such incidents that they compiled along with Senator Harry Ried. A library that they arent sure if AARO has bothered/permitted to access. However that statement was a few days prior to the AARO report. And clearly from AAROs report they haven't accessed it. Because the other statement that was made and cleared by DOPSR was that "a recovered craft of unknown origin was finally opened and access was gained".
Before the sofa debunkers begin eye rolling "unknown origin" means exactly that. Not ours and no one else's either. Odd that they refuse to continue the obvious conclusion that if its no ones they know ... then where does it come from. Its getting ridiculous now. Forget extra terrestrial origin for a second and just try and categorise what it's origin is.
So how is that omitted by AARO?
How is the eglin incident omitted by AARO?
On their own website they have declassified the gimble video and have classified that as unresolved. But it is a fact that there is a further 4 minutes of the gimble video which isn't mentioned. This further four minutes remains classified.
How is it that AARO have omitted the 3 years worth of spheres containing cubes data off the East Coast of the US - filmed, radar, photographed, engaged, near missed with multiple witnesses that caused the air flight safety protocol to prevent flights continuing ... all to be omitted, despite it being a matter of public record that these incidents have been handed to AARO in the hundreds per month. The USS Omaha incident where the ship was surrounded by 100 plus objects, filmed and with radar footage which has been leaked into the public domain - omitted.
This had led to a crisis in Congress because Kirkpatrick has publicly claimed he has all the clearances he needs and has access to everything. Everything and his report states there is nothing that cannot be explained by prosaic means. The omaha was 100+ miles out to see and was alone. Drones do not have that capability. No drones have the battery life to achieve those distances from shore. These objects were there for several hours.
Despite a heroic effort by senator Mike Turner to thwart any further investigation and hearings ... they are going ahead but subpoena powers have been removed. Gursch will also be interviewed in a scif where he will be permitted to speak openly about everything he couldn't previously. However there jave already been moves to restrict his commentary even within that scif.
This is due to take place in a couple of weeks.
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for anyone interested in exploring the history of Roswell & other conspiracies, check out
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2017/12/the-roswell-incident-at-70-facts-not-myths/
https://skepticalinquirer.org/2021/08/ufos-beliefs-conspiracies-and-aliens/
https://skepticalinquirer.org/newsletter/roswell-ufo-strange-metal-mystery/
The ‘Roswell Slides’ Fiasco:
UFOlogy’s Biggest Black Eye
https://skepticalinquirer.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/29/2015/09/p30.pdf
and for anyone still believing this nonsense, I have some jackalope mummies for sale...
As we can have a discussion, and agree or disagree as we have in the past, I'll add something that may be of interest. Cognitive Bias.
Confirmation Bias: People tend to seek out and pay more attention to information that confirms their existing beliefs while ignoring or downplaying contradictory evidence. This selective attention reinforces false beliefs by creating an echo chamber of confirming information.
Rosewell was a non-event, shortly after it was mistakenly reported in the news and mis-identification had occurred during the early days of the first UFO sightings. Flying Saucers were fresh in the news in 1947. Then the Roswell incident was a closed case, until 1978. Talk about a cold case file? Jesse Marcel was interviewed by Stanton Friedman, who was doing detailed research.
As a result and the fact that Project Mogul wasn't top secret anymore, the US Govt. released the truth and the evidence of what was really found. But the UFO conspiracy people, wouldn't let go. Until that time, there were no alien bodies, and one crash. The story grew, into multiple crashed UFOs and tiny aliens, being hidden or transported to Ohio. That involved the invention of hanger 19 which never existed and doesn't now.
One of the members of the flight crew described the flying saucer, that they transported as "lightweight and not too large to fit inside the trunk of a car". How did that tiny flying saucer, ever have the claimed aliens?
Once all the evidence and stories are sorted out and compared, it's a simple bit of deduction to trace the rumors and conspiracy, down to Jesse Marcel and his beliefs and convictions that what he saw and handled was a flying saucer. But the problem is, others who saw the debris and the evidence from the USAF and others, doesn't match what Marcel believed to be the truth.
If you weigh all the observations, the data and what all of the evidence points to, it was a radar target, flown by a weather balloon. Not only does the debris resemble this, but it matches the Marcel photos, with him holding the debris.
(https://ufologie.patrickgross.org/rw/g/pics/rawinandtarget1947.jpg)(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Ramey-dubose-debris.jpg/800px-Ramey-dubose-debris.jpg)
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Today allegations against the head of AARO Dr Sean Kirpatrick have been revealed.
Following revelations from someone who was interviewed by AARO regarding their experience it has been alleged that Kirpatrick has not been following his mandate. Kirpatrick has a team of investigators who interview witnesses within the military. However this witness has stated that the team claim they have no knowledge of any historic UAP investigation data, and have no historic experience of dealing with the UAP phenomena.
Further it is alleged that Kirkpatrick hasn't been relying on his team to summarise the reports. In fact he has created a secret team outside of the oversight of AARO and it is they who compile the results. He was asked to reveal who this team were by Congress and he refused to comply with their request. However their names have been supplied to Congress by another source.
Kirkpatrick did initially state that he would create two teams. One would approach the phenomena from a national security threat assesment angle.
The other would assess reports from a technological angle. If they concurred that what they were looking at was both anomalous and a national security threat then that example would be classified as serious. If neither team regarded it as an issue it wouod discarded. If one team flagged it as an issue and the other did not then he would examine the evidence and pass it back until a resolution was reached. If that didn't happen he would make a judgement call.
It appears this isn't happening and any evidential findings are being presented to his secret council who are allegedly made up of people from the back engineering and crash retrieval teams. This is also who make up some of the 30 whistle blowers who have been interviewed under oath in a secure scif regarding their role in these programs by Thomas Monheim The Inspector General of the Inteligence Community. The same Thomas Monheim who after interviewing David Grusch and extensively investigating his claims declared them urgent and credible.
If Kirkpatricks days looked numbered before then they are certainly numbered less now.
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It has never gone down like this before. Never.
Bryce Zabel and Ross Coulthart run a podcast that ocassionally post and usually its following an event within Congress regarding a stage in what some perceive as a slow disclosure. The slow disclosure has been slowly coming for 30 years and will likely never arrive. That's my experience. But how slow would it need to be. And I don't know the answer because it never seems to move along.
There are rumours that the James Webb Telescope has found something rather large that shouldn't be where it is. This something has allegedly moved any time scale that may have existed to a much faster roll out. Much faster than many would like.
A few hours ago the need ro know podcast posted a very short clip prefaced by a random thumbnail. It'll no doubt come to light what that is but Bryce and Ross tend not to speculate beyond journalistic rigor.
https://youtu.be/74a7byaTAa0?feature=shared
"The next president will be the disclosure president whether they wanna be or not" - no ambiguity there. Allegedly Biden is too far gone to deal with it and the time scale will bring it too close to the next election. So what does this mean. Bryce clarified in a response implying 4 year max.
And then the random thumbnail. Could be some sorta a helicopter maybe ...
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AARO director Sean Kirkpatrick comes under more fire for lying to congress.
Who is Sean Kirkpatrick. Scientist and inventor.
What is SAIC and why does it matter.
SAIC - Science Application International Corp - SAIC is a premier Fortune 500® technology integrator driving our nation's digital transformation. Our robust portfolio of offerings across the defense, space and civilian.
This week Sean Kirkpatrick revealed that he has on numerous ocassions attempted to reach out to David Grusch and his Lawyer but has not received any communications in return. This is blatantly a lie. His lawyer has his own website with all his contact details which anyone can find. Grusch himself is easily contactable through various official channels. And neither have recieved a single communication from Sean Kirpatrick in response to their emails.
The attempt to get Grusch in a secure scif failed and instead Burchette and Luna were briefed by other inteliegnece members which was reported as a complete waste of time and obfuscation. Attempts continue to secure a scif to interview Grusch. He is more than willing but he has been told he isn't permitted to.
And as well as the lie that Kirkpatrick claims he's had no communication from Grusch he has also stated that there are no satelite images of UAP. None. Which is another lie as former Deputy director of the Intelligence Community Christopher Mellon has seen first hand 4k footage of various UAP as had Senator Harry Reid and many many more officials.
He also claims that there are no UAP reports that he has seen that do not have a mundane explanation. Another lie because he has seen first hand the radar footage and cockpit footage from Nimitz Omaha and Princetown to name two incidents.
He is refusing to divulge who his secret team are that are overseeing AAROs investigations. Who could they be. Who is this mysterious organisation.
Likely SAIC. And what do they do ... well they are a significant defence contractor. Involved in Artemis, Radar defence, Cyber security, fringe and exotic technologies ......
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But as well as Artemis and being a significant defence contractor of exotic technologies they have a massive amount of employees. Thousands and thousands across the world. And guess who worked for them ...
According to filings made against SAIC they were charged with wrong doing and who was named ... Sean Kirkpatrick.
Who else alongside SAIC is working in Artemis - Lockhead Martin who are also named as holders of Crashed UAP technology and who else has contracts within the Artemis programme to return to the moon?
"We don't have any crashed UFOs or alien bodies because if we did I would know" - Elon Musk. Contracted to provide landing craft and crucial states for Project Artemis.
Wonder what Kirkpatrick invented. Whatever it was it involved holographic technologies at the nanoscale while he worked at SAIC.
Maybe just maybe Kirkpatrick has an everso huge conflict of interest in his role at AARO director.
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More news today as a previously revealed encounters with Chinese spy balloons is exposed as one spy balloon and some other objects.
Previously Biden was interviewed after the shoot down of the spy balloon and stated that he had ordered the shoot down. However he then gave an address regarding the events where he revealed by accident that they had "narrowed their radars". In fact what had happened was that the radar systems had been altered to filter out vast UAP activity because it had been deemed that nothing could be done about them. Following the obvious sighting of the spy balloon by large numbers of the populace the White House demanded why it had not been detected far sooner. The reason was because the radar filters had been altered to exclude UAP and by accident made them less effective.
After this was discovered a presidential order was made to immediately fix the radar filters and then the balloon showed up as well as other objects. This is where this has resurfaced today with new revelations by Ross Coulthart and Christopher Mellon ....
https://youtu.be/qSbeXLf4rFs?feature=shared
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Quite inevitable really
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12703835/amp/Pentagon-UFO-chief-AARO-Kirkpatrick-REPLACED-whistleblowers-accuse-lying-public-ignoring-witnesses.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-12703835/amp/Pentagon-UFO-chief-AARO-Kirkpatrick-REPLACED-whistleblowers-accuse-lying-public-ignoring-witnesses.html)
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In a second Mexican congressional hearing (dubbed in English) we have a 3 hour presentation regarding the Nasca mummies. And they show that there is no manipulation of the skeletal system or the mummies generally. Giving one presentation is the Ex President of the Medical Association of Peru who is now a Member of the Acadamy of Medicine New York, David Willy Ruiz Vela.
https://www.youtube.com/live/XHyMlkm7Njo?feature=shared (https://www.youtube.com/live/XHyMlkm7Njo?feature=shared)
3 hour presentation including newly released UFO footage.
They do not say they are aliens and think they may be a prehuman race related to lizards.
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They do not say they are aliens and think they may be a prehuman race related to lizards.
There is no such thing as a prehuman race related to lizards.
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They do not say they are aliens and think they may be a prehuman race related to lizards.
There is no such thing as a prehuman race related to lizards.
What do you think they are? I thought these mummies had been debunked. Then it transpired these were not the amalgamated ones. Now none of them appear to be. So what are they?
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There is no such thing as a prehuman race related to lizards.
What do you think they are? I thought these mummies had been debunked. Then it transpired these were not the amalgamated ones. Now none of them appear to be. So what are they?
I have not spend a lot of time reading up on them, but from what I have read, it still seems to be the most likely that they are some kind of fraud.
They are definitely not pre-humans related to lizards, though.
Humans and lizards are on different branches of the land vertebrate evolutionary tree. Humans are mammals and so are all pre-humans.
Lizards are usually categorized as reptiles (although that is a paraphyletic group). They are more closely related to birds than to mammals.
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https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/aliens-not-confirmed-by-mexican-government-ufo-hearing-2023-09-15/ (https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/aliens-not-confirmed-by-mexican-government-ufo-hearing-2023-09-15/)
Not confirmed
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There is no such thing as a prehuman race related to lizards.
What do you think they are? I thought these mummies had been debunked. Then it transpired these were not the amalgamated ones. Now none of them appear to be. So what are they?
I have not spend a lot of time reading up on them, but from what I have read, it still seems to be the most likely that they are some kind of fraud.
They are definitely not pre-humans related to lizards, though.
Humans and lizards are on different branches of the land vertebrate evolutionary tree. Humans are mammals and so are all pre-humans.
Lizards are usually categorized as reptiles (although that is a paraphyletic group). They are more closely related to birds than to mammals.
The fraud claim came from a single utube clip. That's all it took. And from some time ago and took on a life of its own. Jamie Musshain is actually apprently a very good rigorous reporter but has become less reliable because of that video and his claims now.
These new medical examinations follow on from previous ones which although doen live were literally laughed at by American news outlets because they were "mexicans" ... just lovely. Nice bit of racism. Well we shall have to see where it goes.
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https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/aliens-not-confirmed-by-mexican-government-ufo-hearing-2023-09-15/ (https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/aliens-not-confirmed-by-mexican-government-ufo-hearing-2023-09-15/)
Not confirmed
poorly researched
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...
These new medical examinations follow on from previous ones which although doen live were literally laughed at by American news outlets because they were "mexicans" ... just lovely. Nice bit of racism. Well we shall have to see where it goes.
please show references where this occurred
the results were laughed at because they were nonsense, not for any racial bias
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...
These new medical examinations follow on from previous ones which although doen live were literally laughed at by American news outlets because they were "mexicans" ... just lovely. Nice bit of racism. Well we shall have to see where it goes.
please show references where this occurred
the results were laughed at because they were nonsense, not for any racial bias
...
These new medical examinations follow on from previous ones which although doen live were literally laughed at by American news outlets because they were "mexicans" ... just lovely. Nice bit of racism. Well we shall have to see where it goes.
please show references where this occurred
the results were laughed at because they were nonsense, not for any racial bias
You again have no idea what you're talking about as per usual. The rough quote was ... "They've been examined by some Mexican doctors apprently and they claim that they are real and haven't been adulterated but I wouldn't go to Mexico for treatment for as much as a cold"
The source is on page 22 which has the link to the latest investigations. They don't claim that they are aliens and neither did I.
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Sean Kirkpatrick head of AARO until next month at least has given an off camera round table
After affirming that he has attempted to interview David Grusch several times and been declined (a claim David Grusch denies strongly as does his lawyer) he goes on give more information obtained from those he believes David Grusch may have obtained his claimed information from ...
Q: One quick follow up question. So, you said you think you've all talked to the same people David Grusch did. Are you able to expand on that? What did they share with you all?
DR. KIRKPATRICK: No. For a variety of reasons, so we -- we, obviously, we are obligated to protect all these people's identities for – for all kinds of reasons. What they are reporting, we are documenting. They are reviewing and then revalidating that this is what they want to say. We then research all of that collectively. There is a – there is a, if you think of it as a story arc, there's a number of people that kind of fit into this story arc.
But then there's these little offshoots and variations on themes. We're investigating each and every one of them. We're cross-referencing those. There are some bits of information that are turning out to be things and events that really happened. A lot of it is still under review, and we're putting all that together into our historical report.
Not vague at all but assuming he means in the context of the congressional hearings under oath it doesn't leave much that wasn't extraordinary to pick from aside from funneling money off for black projects which wouldn't be under the congressional oversight because that funnelled funding went to private defence contractors.
We shall see and fairly soon I believe.
Details here https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3575588/aaro-director-dr-sean-kirkpatrick-holds-an-off-camera-media-roundtable/ (https://www.defense.gov/News/Transcripts/Transcript/Article/3575588/aaro-director-dr-sean-kirkpatrick-holds-an-off-camera-media-roundtable/)
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David Grusch new interview airing now
https://youtu.be/2a2iNW5AZjw?feature=shared
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...
These new medical examinations follow on from previous ones which although doen live were literally laughed at by American news outlets because they were "mexicans" ... just lovely. Nice bit of racism. Well we shall have to see where it goes.
please show references where this occurred
the results were laughed at because they were nonsense, not for any racial bias
Another important congressional investigation. A congressman is calling for a federal investigation of Warner Bros. for its handling of Coyote vs. Acme.
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Whistle blower David Grusch 2 hours 40 minutes on the Joe Rogan experience dropped a couple of hours ago.
Any infantile comments will be ignored. This man is beyond reproach. His credentials are beyond reproach. His information is beyond reproach and has been investigated fully by congressional members, Intelligence leaders past and present and lawyers. Be extremely careful what you write regarding him because not only will you make yourself look rather stupid anything vaguely iffy legally will be traced. Have no doubt at all that anything regarding this man on any platform is being scraped and monitored. Zero doubt.
This isn't paranoid delusional nonsense, this guy has been vetted and investigated to death and they've found nothing to discredit him. They've (all the 3 letter agencies, Congress, Whitehouse, everyone who matters).
https://open.spotify.com/episode/6D6otpHwnaAc86SS1M8yHm?si=8UHFEs39SoOU_AcQpFDHHw
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in less than 72 hours Senater Schumers amendment is due to be either passed or thrown out. It is a brutal amendment and requires any and all to make known what they hold regarding UAP - material, bodies, evidence, retrieved craft and so on. The wording of the amendment leaves almost zero wiggle room. It has been swiftly going through the various stages being pushed along by a large group of senators who want to know the truth.
However senator Mike Turner who's campaign funds are made up of mostly all the military contractors like Lockhead Martin (known to be in possession of at least one craft) and other major defence contractors, had privately been running around attempting to get the amendment thrown out. When this was made public earlier this year he was exposed and forced to go on camera to call it all nonsense.
But despite his claim he has renewed his efforts to prevent the amendment being passed and is fighting tooth and nail to get it thrown out. If there was no truth to the amendment it wouldn't matter if it passed. And yet he is determined to get it thrown out.
These are the last hours you have to contact your senators and let them know how you feel. If the amendment doesn't pass black budget money will be funnelled with zero congressional oversight. None.
This from Chris Mellon -
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Rumours already surfacing that Mitch McConnell approached senator Schumer and told him "Its gone, its out, your UAP amendment has been thrown out"
And because of that a redundancy is being put into motion.
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So the Schumer amendment is floating in a void at present.
After rumours that Mitch McConnell has been running around claiming the bill is a dead duck suddenly certain congresspeople have risen up to make their stance known.
Those who are deeply opposed and allegedly running around trying to turn the tide to have the amendment thrown out:
Mitch McConnell - Senate Minority Leader
Mike Turner - House Intelligence Chair (Ohio) and home of Write Patterson AFB which is the location for many of the rumours of retrieved craft being housed there along with "biologics"
Mike Rogers - United States Representative
Mike Johnson - Speaker of the United States House of Representatives
But despite the pushback they are trying to garner more senators are also making their voices heard following contact from their constituents. And it doesn't help that this information is freely available. Senator Mike Turner receives significant funding from aerospace organisations who have allegedly been given retrieved crashed UAP for analysis and have done for years.
It isnt a great look when you are trying to destroy a piece of proposed legislation which would force organisations to hand over crashed craft and biologics and data to the US government when those same organisations fund you. And yet that's what's going down.
It looks as though the eminent domain part of the disclosure act may be being removed.
Mike Turners funding
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So the schumer rounds bill has
been rejected
been gutted of the powerful language written in it
is being strengthened further and will be passed intact
is being desperately fought for as well as discarded.
The conflicting information coming out of there is mad. However a high powered law firm have made it clear that unless it passes in tact they will take matters into their own hands and a date has been set for final votes on an in tact or gutted bill by Decemeber 21st. Unless it gets extended. If all parties are happy it will be given to Biden earlier or later depending how it goes.
If it passes unchanged it will begin a rapid disclosure process that will be a paradigm changer but by rapid they mean by 2034. If it gets thrown out a "catastrophic disclosure" plan is in place to shuffle things along with no restraint. Apprently way too many people are now in the loop and there is zero hope of putting the sh*t back in the horse. Literally none because vast chunks of it are very open secrets. So many know the facts allegedly that everyone is waiting for it to be leaked so they know what course to take.
I am not in the loop. Or I'd have just gotten it over with. 🤷
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Senator Schumers UAP disclosure act remains but has been neutered by Mike Turner and colleagues.
Eminant Domain - stripped
Civilian review board of UAP material held - stripped
Subpoena power for non compliant bodies and people - stripped
This has rendered the language of the amendment impotent to a great degree and now the question being asked is "if there is nothing to this why has Turner and crew fought to remove the parts of the amendment that can help them prove that there are no craft held or back engineering programmes.
Danny Sheehan discusses the outcome- https://youtu.be/A5BihKg2mOs?feature=shared
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Journalist Christopger Sharp and International attorney J. P. Hague discuss the finer details of what the failure to bring disclosure legislation into law. The causes and the outcomes with some interesting revelations. Christopher is fairly new on the scene but has garnered some significant sources and really does give a no nonsense journalistic rigor to any discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/live/ADuRE_oDmxw?feature=shared (https://www.youtube.com/live/ADuRE_oDmxw?feature=shared)
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following the failure of the Schumer Rounds ammendment to make it through in its entirety (factually made impotent) those calling for disclosure have been left realising that this is no longer a cover up. But an open secret in the halls of power and among the media with zero ability to expose anything for fear that the truth is something so terrible that we can't handle it. Some speculate that this can only mean we are some form of resource like vitamins or cattle. And increasingly the wording being used is implying this more and more. And that the technologies involved are so advanced as to render us or our abilities to stop it happening - pointless. Many who have fought tooth and nail for truth seem to have backed right off. Not only have they gone silent but they have literally begun posting completely opposing positions. Defending the actions of those senators who have thwarted this bill. In less than two weeks. Coulthart, delonge, corbell and Knapp. Whatever they have learned isn't good. They aren't dropping it as if they had learned its all a shame and don't want to sink with it. They are backing off and u-turning regarding the secrecy.
But it's running away with itself with even main stream media smelling blood.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/16/opinion/ufo-whistleblowers-government.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/16/opinion/ufo-whistleblowers-government.html)
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Some speculate that this can only mean we are some form of resource like vitamins or cattle.
I would think they could find something much more nutritious and tasty than us. Maybe there are just no cards to show...
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Some speculate that this can only mean we are some form of resource like vitamins or cattle.
I would think they could find something much more nutritious and tasty than us. Maybe there are just no cards to show...
Have ro wait and see what January brings. If the hype is to be believed its going to be rather shocking. But what is shocking?
Would it be shocking that we are being visited. Or that we are being abducted. Or that there is growing concern that there is a increasing number of 'spheres' being logged around the world by military forces. This is a fact that Kirkpatrick admitted and is a matter of record. They appear to be probes. They are being witnessed by all nations. None seem to know the source and claim it isnt theirs. They can't be caught, or shot down. Although other craft have been. Alaska being the latest well known craft.
What would shock the human race to panic. The answer is unknown and this is being given as a reason for the secrecy but it is now widely known that whatever timetable there was has been significantly moved up. Danny Sheehan believes this will resolve in the next 10 years which personally I do not believe.
It cannot take that long given the extreme releases and claims over the last 6 months. Unchallenged as well. Encouraged in fact. This points to a significantly shorter time frame and at best full disclosure at that rate means 2024. Certainly enough that the populace will be left in no doubt that there are others out there. Other races.
Unless a couple of books can be squeezed out of it in the meantime by the usual suspects that is. But increasingly I think Grusch is going to decide to just rip off the bandaid. I hope so.
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Would it be shocking that we are being visited. Or that we are being abducted. Or that there is growing concern that there is a increasing number of 'spheres' being logged around the world by military forces. This is a fact that Kirkpatrick admitted and is a matter of record. They appear to be probes. They are being witnessed by all nations. None seem to know the source and claim it isnt theirs. They can't be caught, or shot down. Although other craft have been. Alaska being the latest well known craft.
Let's hope it's not the Daleks. Although in that case, I am sure the Doctor would help out yet again.
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Would it be shocking that we are being visited. Or that we are being abducted. Or that there is growing concern that there is a increasing number of 'spheres' being logged around the world by military forces. This is a fact that Kirkpatrick admitted and is a matter of record. They appear to be probes. They are being witnessed by all nations. None seem to know the source and claim it isnt theirs. They can't be caught, or shot down. Although other craft have been. Alaska being the latest well known craft.
Let's hope it's not the Daleks. Although in that case, I am sure the Doctor would help out yet again.
Only Tom Baker has the panache to pull off a 2024 fight for humanity. If its Sylvesta McCoy we're screwed.
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Let's hope it's not the Daleks. Although in that case, I am sure the Doctor would help out yet again.
yet we have decades of video evidence of the dalek existence which make them much more likely than other ET to be out there. is there a Dr in the house/tardis?
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Let's hope it's not the Daleks. Although in that case, I am sure the Doctor would help out yet again.
yet we have decades of video evidence of the dalek as existence which make them much more likely than other ET to be out there. is there a Dr in the house/tardis?
Well we are well and truly beyond 'if'. I now no longer have the luxury of 'if'
'out there' appears to be the fuzzy point because those in the know are hinting at from other dimensional planes being more likely. At which point I suspended belief 😕
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Post deleted as obviously I made an error by quoting something that appeared to have been just posted which was actually from September of last year. Very odd but never the less now completely out of context and therefore the response from me was garbage.
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Here is Daniel Sheehan speaking about initially the lead up to disclosure and to the present day with quite a good timeline of events condensed I to the first 30 minutes and then questions follow from the Interviewer.
https://youtu.be/iMRynvlb5EY?feature=shared
Daniel Sheehan is a lawyer involved in many significant historical events.
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Would it be shocking that we are being visited. Or that we are being abducted. Or that there is growing concern that there is a increasing number of 'spheres' being logged around the world by military forces.
I think conclusive proof of either one of those would be quite shocking. I hadn't heard much about the "spheres" you mentioned so looked it up and found this from last June (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4030026-us-military-has-been-observing-metallic-orbs-making-extraordinary-maneuvers/). Not sure if you have posted this previously. The video linked to the article is not very convincing - very blurry - but these objects seem to have been detected by different types of sensors so definitely real. No proof that they are extraterrestrial but certainly something interesting that needs an explanation.
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Would it be shocking that we are being visited. Or that we are being abducted. Or that there is growing concern that there is a increasing number of 'spheres' being logged around the world by military forces.
I think conclusive proof of either one of those would be quite shocking. I hadn't heard much about the "spheres" you mentioned so looked it up and found this from last June (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/4030026-us-military-has-been-observing-metallic-orbs-making-extraordinary-maneuvers/). Not sure if you have posted this previously. The video linked to the article is not very convincing - very blurry - but these objects seem to have been detected by different types of sensors so definitely real. No proof that they are extraterrestrial but certainly something interesting that needs an explanation.
No, no proof that they are extra terrestrial in origin at all that I have seen. And the one that was made public/leaked was the Mosul Orb. Filmed from a military drone if memory serves. Though this first surfaced and was dismissed by all until last year. As it is now we watched ARRO, headed up then by Sean Kirkpatrick, reporting to congress and explaining about the numerous reports of these spheres whilst showing the leaked video to them.
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Classified Meeting with the ICIG (Intelligence Community Inspector General) and the Full Accountability and Oversight Committee will take place on January 9th 2024. They are going to brief the oversight committee on classified UAP.
Who is going to be present? Senator Mike Turner 🤦 who fought and succeeded in getting eminent domain, Civilian investigation panel to declassify UAP evidence and a couple of other things removed from the UAP disclosure amendment. Is financed in part by Lockhead Martin amongst others and is the senator who has Wright-Patt air force base in his jurisdiction. The first drop off point for anything UAP related (according to witness testimony).
What's Mike's job ... Chair of the House Intelligence Committee ....
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Senator Robert Garcia exits the congressional briefing by the Intelligence Community Inspector General on UAP
It's a serious National Security issue and he thinks disclosure and transparency are important but he can't say what happened in the restricted briefing 😆 🤣
But whatever he was told/shown its a National Security issue and disclosure is important - 👍 got ya.
https://x.com/JCliff_Scoops/status/1745871810443280719?s=20
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Senator Robert Garcia exits the congressional briefing by the Intelligence Community Inspector General on UAP
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that's CONGRESSMAN not senator
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After the SCIF, Burchett says "Grusch is legit":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQNq0HkyFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEQNq0HkyFc)
Rep. Moskovitz: "Based on what we heard many of Grusch claims have merit!"
https://twitter.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1745852400630456618 (https://twitter.com/JaredEMoskowitz/status/1745852400630456618)
Rep. Luna: “Grusch never said ‘extraterrestrial,’ he said ‘interdimensional.’ There is a movement to prevent us from finding out more information”
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/194zbl8/rep_luna_grusch_never_said_extraterrestrial_he/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/194zbl8/rep_luna_grusch_never_said_extraterrestrial_he/)
Have they been briefed about "something that doesn't exist"? Or are we pretty darn close to the actual disclosure?
1966 - Hynek receives a phone call from the government and is forced to lie to the public that the sightings were "swamp gas". Hynek was a skeptic who became a believer after his research
2017 - Pentagon confirms that some UAPs are real, not hallucinations and not hoaxes. And not "swamp gas".
2023 - Grusch says there is a reverse-engineering program, there are NHI and that has been going on for many decades
2024 - Inspector General must have seen the evidence provided by Grusch, Congressmen are presented information from the IG and say that Grusch is not a lunatic or a liar
THESE ARE FACTS.
There is a point of origin: "the lie about swamp gas" - and there is a direction in which new events unfold - based on that trajectory we can try to extrapolate where the story is heading. I picked the point of origin arbitrarily - but that event confirms that the government really knew something more and tried to cover it up.
I assume that "many of Grusch's claims have merit" is an understatement, due to the fact that the info is classified. If even some of Grusch's claims were true, then it is really big. If what Grusch said was BS, I don't think they would be dealing with it the way they are doing it.
I suppose the denialist worldview is about to crumble like a house of cards.
Perhaps things will get "woo"...
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*Congressman Garcia
There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect. If so there should have been misshaps that exposed them more often. Nothing is infallible.
Also being spoken about more and more is self replicating drones that have been doing so in our seas. At least two plants have been reported or leaked.
Whatever it is I think it is clear it isnt us and it isnt understood very well.
And it is obvious that whatever time frame had been the case has been completely sped up. The rate at which information is coming out is breakneck. Already hints from the briefing today. And I know that much more is coming and bloody soon. The hint is that it's days not weeks. This doesn't lend itself to an interdimensional race scenario but rather something on its way or something captured that's revealed a timescale.
I think whatever they shot down over Alaska was significant. At this point even if they did follow Schumers amendment and begin mass declassification of material - what purpose would that serve.
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Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."
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I assume that "many of Grusch's claims have merit" is an understatement, due to the fact that the info is classified. If even some of Grusch's claims were true, then it is really big. If what Grusch said was BS, I don't think they would be dealing with it the way they are doing it.
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there are many reasons info is classified. first the use of classified has metastasized, and many dox being declassified should never have been so, but there are also concerns that info would disclose security capabilities, etc. dox repeating info published by major newspapers & blogs have also been classified.
conclusion - classification does not imply conspiracy to hide results or even dox having significant new info.
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I assume that "many of Grusch's claims have merit" is an understatement, due to the fact that the info is classified. If even some of Grusch's claims were true, then it is really big. If what Grusch said was BS, I don't think they would be dealing with it the way they are doing it.
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there are many reasons info is classified. first the use of classified has metastasized, and many dox being declassified should never have been so, but there are also concerns that info would disclose security capabilities, etc. dox repeating info published by major newspapers & blogs have also been classified.
conclusion - classification does not imply conspiracy to hide results or even dox having significant new info.
That is not the point. I see the statement "many of Grusch's claims have merit" as a likely understatement. As the briefing was in a SCIF, they are probably not allowed to discuss it in detail. Saying "pretty much everything that Grusch said is true" would reveal too much, and Moskovitz was not allowed to do so. So, a general statement like that, without going into details, is actually pretty big, especially as they will definitely continue to investigate the matter. Perhaps they have got names and addresses and were presented evidence. If it was BS, it would have been simply dismissed and the case would have been closed.
The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
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Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."
In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.
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There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect.
From Northrop Grumman:
https://now.northropgrumman.com/do-doors-to-interdimensional-travel-exist
Background information from Wikipedia for those who don't know Northrop Grumman:
Northrop Grumman Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense technology company. With 95,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers.
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I assume that "many of Grusch's claims have merit" is an understatement, due to the fact that the info is classified. If even some of Grusch's claims were true, then it is really big. If what Grusch said was BS, I don't think they would be dealing with it the way they are doing it.
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there are many reasons info is classified. first the use of classified has metastasized, and many dox being declassified should never have been so, but there are also concerns that info would disclose security capabilities, etc. dox repeating info published by major newspapers & blogs have also been classified.
conclusion - classification does not imply conspiracy to hide results or even dox having significant new info.
Grusch’s claims were not that stuff was classified. His claims were specifically that there had been a decades long crash retrieval programme and associated events.
However he also had whistle blower complaints which spoken about and had merit but in one of the interviews given shortly after the man interviewed stated "Not just his whistle blower complaint" so that only leaves his more specific claims that he spoke about to congress in his testimony under oath.
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There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect.
From Northrop Grumman:
https://now.northropgrumman.com/do-doors-to-interdimensional-travel-exist
Background information from Wikipedia for those who don't know Northrop Grumman:
Northrop Grumman Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense technology company. With 95,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers.
Good to know that there are peole at Northrop Grumman with a sense of humour.
Quote from your link:
"Instructions on how to make a multiverse portal are, sadly, a bit disappointing (they're for a computer game module). But interdimensional portals also turn out to be a subject of interest for many websites dealing with religion and mysticism.
And, according to Britain's Guardian newspaper, London has gained a reputation as the Grand Central Station — or at least the Clapham Junction — of interdimensional travel. Portals are popping up all over town, and a mysterious blog is keeping tabs on them."
In the more serious part of the article they quote a phsicist who believes it may be possible to survive interdimensional travel through a black hole that is large enough, like the one in the center of our galaxy.
The distance to the center of the galaxy is about 26,000 light years. As you may know from Star Trek Voyager, even at Warp 9 you would need several decades to travel this distance. Since a warp drive is unfortunatly impossible, aliens would have to travel at sublight speed, so it would take them more than 26,000 years to cover the distance.
So, aliens visiting us from another dimension would have to travel to a black hole on their side, somehow avoid being crushed by the other matter falling into the hole or torn into parts by the tidal forces caused by the gravity, then arrive at the black hole on our side, somehow escape the event horizon and again avoid being crushed or torn apart and then travel at least for 26,000 years in order to get to our solar system.
So, no, interdimensional travel does not really make it any easier for aliens to visit us. At least not according to the physicist cited in the article.
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Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."
In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.
I thought you would be against lies, deception and coverup. Instead you try to defend the science fiction fantasy, fake news about alien bodies. This is over but another claim or fake will replace it. There are no alien corpses, no photos, no evidence, every. It is completely relevant to the UFO alien cult that will believe any trash fake news and spread it like it's real. Don't you have any integrity or standards in your search for the truth?
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Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."
In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.
I thought you would be against lies, deception and coverup. Instead you try to defend the science fiction fantasy, fake news about alien bodies. This is over but another claim or fake will replace it. There are no alien corpses, no photos, no evidence, every. It is completely relevant to the UFO alien cult that will believe any trash fake news and spread it like it's real. Don't you have any integrity or standards in your search for the truth?
I suggest you sharpen your reading-with-understanding skills and work on logical reasoning.
You have built a strawman and now you are burning it. Where did I write that the mummies were real? Did any of the serious people working in the field (Nolan, Elizondo, Grusch, Mellon, Coulthard) even picked up the story? No, they avoided it, perhaps because they knew it was a distraction. Who cares about the dolls when there is Grusch?
"in the light of recent events" = an investigator working for the US government had made some very serious and specific claims about a cover-up and more. On Friday, the Inspector General informed the Congress Committee about his findings based on the evidence provided to him by Grusch. After the briefing, Congressmen said "Grusch is legit", "Grusch's claims have merit".
And that is the real story, not some mummies. The briefing is a FACT. It is a scandal that many mainstream media chose to cover the mummies and remained silent about the implications of the briefing. You pick some facts that fit into your denialist worldview and choose not to see the real story.
You have swallowed the red herring that most likely was thrown to the denialist crowd as a distraction. Bon appétit.
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curious and out of the blue just dumped out there but the UKs Daily Mail did an expose on crash retrieval teams so interesting that this would appear.
https://youtu.be/YQDO0ZKroQc?feature=shared
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The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
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There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect.
From Northrop Grumman:
https://now.northropgrumman.com/do-doors-to-interdimensional-travel-exist
Background information from Wikipedia for those who don't know Northrop Grumman:
Northrop Grumman Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense technology company. With 95,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers.
now here's a red herring! - if you bothered to, look at the 'about' page you'd find The content on this site doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of Northrop Grumman.
and the actual article just reviews current thinking about the POSSIBILITY, and that's for gravitational influences, not wormholes or blackhole transports
nothing new here & no connectin with UFO
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There is a very big sway towards interdimensional. It seems to be being bandied about more and more. I'm not there on that one but it is concerning to see it more and more. Just another race seems inevitable but one or many that can open portals or doorways into our world seems incorrect.
From Northrop Grumman:
https://now.northropgrumman.com/do-doors-to-interdimensional-travel-exist
Background information from Wikipedia for those who don't know Northrop Grumman:
Northrop Grumman Corporation is an American multinational aerospace and defense technology company. With 95,000 employees and an annual revenue in excess of $30 billion, it is one of the world's largest weapons manufacturers and military technology providers.
now here's a red herring! - if you bothered to, look at the 'about' page you'd find The content on this site doesn’t necessarily reflect the views of Northrop Grumman.
and the actual article just reviews current thinking about the POSSIBILITY, and that's for gravitational influences, not wormholes or blackhole transports
nothing new here & no connectin with UFO
Oh, for crying out loud, linking to a page doesn't necessarily mean endorsement. As the inter-dimensional hypothesis had been mentioned, I thought it was interesting that people writing for Northrop Grumman contemplate such ideas. The inter-dimensional hypothesis in the context of UFOs may mean several things. But exploring such possibilities requires leaving Plato's Cave, or rejecting the blue pill.
And instead of nitpicking, you might also address the gigantic elephant in the room, which is Friday's briefing with Inspector General.
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The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
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The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
always rely on you for name calling in place of facts - we do call out nonsense & misdirection - but we don't deny the possibilities - and we call the claims nonsense, not the claimers
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The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
always rely on you for name calling in place of facts - we do call out nonsense & misdirection - but we don't deny the possibilities - and we call the claims nonsense, not the claimers
And you do so often and loudly like an empty bowl. No substance to your claims other than "because you say so". Your bowl has grown smaller.
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The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
The little girl has soiled her nappy again, maybe you should check with the doctor for that frothing at the mouth and drooling problem. Something here smells like a pile of hot dung.
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Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."
In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.
I thought you would be against lies, deception and coverup. Instead you try to defend the science fiction fantasy, fake news about alien bodies. This is over but another claim or fake will replace it. There are no alien corpses, no photos, no evidence, every. It is completely relevant to the UFO alien cult that will believe any trash fake news and spread it like it's real. Don't you have any integrity or standards in your search for the truth?
I suggest you sharpen your reading-with-understanding skills and work on logical reasoning.
You have built a strawman and now you are burning it. Where did I write that the mummies were real? Did any of the serious people working in the field (Nolan, Elizondo, Grusch, Mellon, Coulthard) even picked up the story? No, they avoided it, perhaps because they knew it was a distraction. Who cares about the dolls when there is Grusch?
"in the light of recent events" = an investigator working for the US government had made some very serious and specific claims about a cover-up and more. On Friday, the Inspector General informed the Congress Committee about his findings based on the evidence provided to him by Grusch. After the briefing, Congressmen said "Grusch is legit", "Grusch's claims have merit".
And that is the real story, not some mummies. The briefing is a FACT. It is a scandal that many mainstream media chose to cover the mummies and remained silent about the implications of the briefing. You pick some facts that fit into your denialist worldview and choose not to see the real story.
You have swallowed the red herring that most likely was thrown to the denialist crowd as a distraction. Bon appétit.
I wrote to the forum, not to you. Maybe you can tell me, what do you think of Bob Lazar, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, George Adamski, David Icke, Jonathan Reed, and Steven Greer? How about Roswell, Ray Santilli and the alien autopsy? Or are you only going with Grusch from now on and ignoring the long history of fakes and frauds.
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I wrote to the forum, not to you. Maybe you can tell me, what do you think of Bob Lazar, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, George Adamski, David Icke, Jonathan Reed, and Steven Greer? How about Roswell, Ray Santilli and the alien autopsy? Or are you only going with Grusch from now on and ignoring the long history of fakes and frauds.
As I said, please work on your logical reasoning skills. What you present here is a classic case of whataboutism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Maybe some, or all, of those people were frauds, maybe there were some nuggets of truth in their claims, I honestly don't know. Some are suspicious.
But whatever they claimed is absolutely irrelevant to the person of Grusch. They don't matter. All it takes is one single confirmed case and the whole denialism crumbles like a house of cards.
Grusch is an investigator tasked with this job by the US government. He did present evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community - Thomas Monheim. Based on that evidence he briefed Congressmen about his findings. Coming out of the briefing, they said "Grusch's claims have merit", "Grusch is legit".
These are facts, for crying out loud.
Another fact is that a lobby in the House fought hard (and won) against the Schumer amendment, which had been passed earlier in the Senate. It is logical to assume that there is some struggle in the circles of power; some are for disclosure, others are against it.
Now, can I say with 100% certainty that what Grusch claims is true? No, I cannot, because I have no means to verify that information myself. And that is OK.
But if you think that Grusch doesn't say the truth, the IGIC told lies to the Congress Committe, then you must deal with one very serious question and that question is:
W*T*F is going on???
Escaping that question is intellectual laziness and mediocrity. If you think that there is something suspicious going behind the curtain, then there you go: that is a conspiracy theory, too.
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...
The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
The little girl has soiled her nappy again, maybe you should check with the doctor for that frothing at the mouth and drooling problem. Something here smells like a pile of hot dung.
That's mature and relevant to the thread.
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Another phony pseudoscience story is deflated. Pop go the aliens.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11 (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/they-are-not-aliens-peru-officials-debunk-claims-that-figures-are-extraterrestrials/ar-AA1mTjPM?OCID=ansmsnnews11)
"The conclusion is simple: they are dolls assembled with bones of animals from this planet, with modern synthetic glues, therefore they were not assembled during pre-Hispanic times," Estrada said. "They are not extraterrestrials; they are not aliens."
In the light of the recent events, that story and your post are COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT and uninteresting. Red herring.
In other news, yesterday it didn't snow in Morocco.
I thought you would be against lies, deception and coverup. Instead you try to defend the science fiction fantasy, fake news about alien bodies. This is over but another claim or fake will replace it. There are no alien corpses, no photos, no evidence, every. It is completely relevant to the UFO alien cult that will believe any trash fake news and spread it like it's real. Don't you have any integrity or standards in your search for the truth?
I suggest you sharpen your reading-with-understanding skills and work on logical reasoning.
You have built a strawman and now you are burning it. Where did I write that the mummies were real? Did any of the serious people working in the field (Nolan, Elizondo, Grusch, Mellon, Coulthard) even picked up the story? No, they avoided it, perhaps because they knew it was a distraction. Who cares about the dolls when there is Grusch?
"in the light of recent events" = an investigator working for the US government had made some very serious and specific claims about a cover-up and more. On Friday, the Inspector General informed the Congress Committee about his findings based on the evidence provided to him by Grusch. After the briefing, Congressmen said "Grusch is legit", "Grusch's claims have merit".
And that is the real story, not some mummies. The briefing is a FACT. It is a scandal that many mainstream media chose to cover the mummies and remained silent about the implications of the briefing. You pick some facts that fit into your denialist worldview and choose not to see the real story.
You have swallowed the red herring that most likely was thrown to the denialist crowd as a distraction. Bon appétit.
I wrote to the forum, not to you. Maybe you can tell me, what do you think of Bob Lazar, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, George Adamski, David Icke, Jonathan Reed, and Steven Greer? How about Roswell, Ray Santilli and the alien autopsy? Or are you only going with Grusch from now on and ignoring the long history of fakes and frauds.
The thing is ma'am you can't lump them all together as fakes and frauds because it doesn't work like that over the span of time you are talking about involving these people. Of those mentioned that I specifically know alot about
Greer - was great is now loony tunes but he did bring a lot and still does, members of military organisations, high and low ranking to the table with their testimony. He's loony tunes because he also takes money and goes out into the wilderness waving torches and lasers around and claims to call down aliens. So he isn't fake he exists and has done great things and also hilariously stupid things.
Santilli - real although his autopsy is fake by his own admission and has been proven as such for decades. He is holding on to something though which if you've researched him he may wheel out. It's unlikely anyone will believe him but you take each detail as it comes.
Roswell is certainly real all day long. All day long. It wasn't project mogul and it wasn't a weather balloon. In fact it's looking more and more like the genesis of this whole saga. I won't even get into Roswell because its already been verified and more to come on that when it comes.
Lazar - again subjective. Those who've investigated him have pulled up for and against arguments. However if you read skeptical accounts they avoid certain facts. If you fall on the urologists side same. Bob did work at LA he did take Geroge knapp out there and he did know everyone. But what details aren't often mentioned.
LA claimed to George Knapp that he worked there and if he wrote to them they'd send his resume. So George did. And he called them and wrote again and eventually have it one last shot and then they said he didnt work there.
Then George found his name and number in the LA labs phone book. So confronted with this they admitted he did work there but all he was involved with was collecting people's radiation badges. This is funny because that's quite an important job and wouod require qualifications they say he doesn't have. He also recalled a device used for security that scanned bones. This was also debunked by LA. Until Corbell found one for sale years later. And you can search for that yourself but it literally does what Lazar said it did back in the day in interviews. So Lazar you pay your money and takes your choice.
It doesn't matter if you go through them all because Grusch is a different ball game. And this isn't being investigated by a goofball on some weekly show with bad music and graphics. This is being investigated by the ICIG and laws are being written and passed to bring the details kicking and screaming into the public domain.
Its coming. You don't have to believe it, like it, support it, want it or deny it, its literally, you are literally irrelevant. You matter like dust or leaves. Your pathetic comments are lost energy and worthless dross that are funny because they please you to write them and morons click likes ... and all the while, day after day, more and more is being dumped online from credible sources and organisations and it won't matter what you have done or haven't done it'll happen all the same.
I'm also irrelevant. I just keep tabs on things and post stuff that comes from people that aren't greer lol. People that are 100% working to a timed agenda. And it isnt their book or documentary or own ego ... they are dropping this stuff in a very controlled manner and you know that because Corbell and Knapp have had thise stuff for 5 or less years and said nothing. And out of the blue we are getting regular drops. Followed by background. They drop it knowing exactly where its from and when and with what and by who and stay silent for a few days and let the morons froth and talk sh@t and then they drop the rest destroying people like Mick West.
Like this latest Jelly Fish UAP a few days ago. Mick went into overdrive stating where it was filmed and that it certainly wasn't over water so couldn't have done what was claimed. Today Knapp and Corbell dropped the rest and named the body of water and wheeled out one of the guys that had the footage on his hard drive in his military capacity.
It's being orchestrated like never before. And it's speeding up. And instead of wasting time lying or calling it nonsese we should be trying to work out why.
But believe what you want because you won't matter to the outcome.
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Peter has clearly found his meds 😳 ... pssst Lower the dose.
Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. The gas aerated the water and reduced its density. The only reason things float is that the specific gravity of water allows for things to float ad long as they displace more water than the object weighs. Aerated water changes the maths and boats sink through the water very very rapidly. It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
The diatribe about Stanton Friedman is laughable and doesn't warrant a response frankly. Can't speak for the rest.
The crash at corona is a different crashed object recovery which has been exhaustively investigated by many but the one I'm familiar with is Scott Ramsay I think his name is.
... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. You are the one hurling claims lol. Crack on Peter please prove your claim. You can't though can you because skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. Pay them good money to work against you lol.
As for Roswell there is so much evidence, witness testimony and documents from people who were actually there at all levels of credibility it would take a lifetime to explore it all id imagine. You can thank Stanton Friedman for that because he tracked them all down and interviewed them on tape. Many of those interviews are available on utube. Of course all that research had to be done for free according to Peter. Because if you take that research and put the salient points in a book jacket and sell it, it automatically makes you a fraud. Oops. and the lectures these fraudsters attend are also scambait.
Peter is giving away his stock photos for free everyone btw. Just dm him that's right isn't it Peter lol.
It is certainly an interesting event. Dont take it from me though take it from someone who fought for their country for small pay. An actual hero who recieved the bronze star. Who supported the atom bomb tests at bikini atol. Put in charge as the intelligence officer at Roswell Air base and became group inteligence officef. A base who's purpose was to be the tip of the spear for nuclear monitoring against Russian radiological weapons testing amongst other things. Who went on to be promoted to Lt Col. Not bad for a fraud.
Or if you don't accept Jesse Snr how about Jesse Jnr or rather Dr Marcel or Flight Surgeon Marcel ... alleged quack and fraudster because he also attended lectures and also appeared on TV over the years.
Shame you ranted off Peter. Why is anyone's guess but that's you isn't it. What rank did you get to Pete ... I'm curious...
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Should cover the personal attacks and name calling that has gone on for months now?
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
Stop Please.
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Roswell is certainly real all day long. All day long. It wasn't project mogul and it wasn't a weather balloon. In fact it's looking more and more like the genesis of this whole saga. I won't even get into Roswell because its already been verified and more to come on that when it comes.
As I stated here before, Roswell was caused by three Ferengi and a shapeshifter inadvertently travelling back in time.
That was revealed when the Deep Space Nine episode "Little Green Men" first aired in 1995.
We even have live action footage of the event. In color. What could be more convincing?
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Roswell is certainly real all day long. All day long. It wasn't project mogul and it wasn't a weather balloon. In fact it's looking more and more like the genesis of this whole saga. I won't even get into Roswell because its already been verified and more to come on that when it comes.
As I stated here before, Roswell was caused by three Ferengi and a shapeshifter inadvertently travelling back in time.
That was revealed when the Deep Space Nine episode "Little Green Men" first aired in 1995.
We even have live action footage of the event. In color. What could be more convincing?
Deanna Troi's American accent?
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And the latest news features a UAP which bares the dubious names "Spaghetti Monster" and "Jelly Fish" uap.
Initially released as a still followed by footage and later by a stabilised version.
The still was imidiately derided as bird poop and balloons.
The footage was equally destroyed.
The stabilised version (suspiciously meticulously timed) shows that the object is actually rotating and is also shown at various distances removing the bird poop theory. However that remains out there as the chief explanation because not many have followed the story.
So balloons is the explanation by Mick West. Case solved yesterday with a neat little video showing all his workings. It's still categorised by the US military as UAP because they have much more data. Film. Instrumentation, experience and witnesses and no idea what it is.
https://youtube.com/shorts/DbH-M4wzXiw?feature=shared
Mick Wests claim yesterday
https://youtu.be/ojotsKjshHc?feature=shared
Corbell and Knapp give more detail
on the source of the video
https://youtu.be/aqsqcJ6DZsg?feature=shared
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For those who want to speed things up and want proof now. For $9.99 you can download an app called CE5 contact which guides you through meditation and tones to call in UAP.
https://youtu.be/v03hbaEnSGM?feature=shared
😳
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I wrote to the forum, not to you. Maybe you can tell me, what do you think of Bob Lazar, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, George Adamski, David Icke, Jonathan Reed, and Steven Greer? How about Roswell, Ray Santilli and the alien autopsy? Or are you only going with Grusch from now on and ignoring the long history of fakes and frauds.
As I said, please work on your logical reasoning skills. What you present here is a classic case of whataboutism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Maybe some, or all, of those people were frauds, maybe there were some nuggets of truth in their claims, I honestly don't know. Some are suspicious.
But whatever they claimed is absolutely irrelevant to the person of Grusch. They don't matter. All it takes is one single confirmed case and the whole denialism crumbles like a house of cards.
Grusch is an investigator tasked with this job by the US government. He did present evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community - Thomas Monheim. Based on that evidence he briefed Congressmen about his findings. Coming out of the briefing, they said "Grusch's claims have merit", "Grusch is legit".
These are facts, for crying out loud.
Another fact is that a lobby in the House fought hard (and won) against the Schumer amendment, which had been passed earlier in the Senate. It is logical to assume that there is some struggle in the circles of power; some are for disclosure, others are against it.
Now, can I say with 100% certainty that what Grusch claims is true? No, I cannot, because I have no means to verify that information myself. And that is OK.
But if you think that Grusch doesn't say the truth, the IGIC told lies to the Congress Committe, then you must deal with one very serious question and that question is:
W*T*F is going on???
Escaping that question is intellectual laziness and mediocrity. If you think that there is something suspicious going behind the curtain, then there you go: that is a conspiracy theory, too.
Yes it is whatabout. Your history the mythology the beliefs the fantasy science fiction is all flawed, lies, fables, fakes and not science. What about that? Talk about escaping the question, you divert and don't answer. What about all the fakes and debunked stories for over 60 years. And your pal Lowls doesn't answer anything, he just turns into Donald Trump and starts spewing personal attacks, trying to bully anyone who disagrees. How childish.
If you want it all to be about Grush and parallel planes, that's fine. But you have to excuse me for pointing out, UFOs and Aliens have attracted a large set of liars and nut cases. Religious doomsday cults that ended in suicide. End of the world, with the aliens coming down to save us.
Whatabout the history and the false claims. That's a fair question to ask.
If I borrowed money from you and didn't pay it back, then borrowed again and didn't pay back, would you just find a way around that and loan me money again? The alien and ufo claims have been biased and unsupported and instead of payback, we just get more unsupported debunked claims and frauds. Why should I buy that? How many times does someone get fooled before they stop and see there's something wrong with the history? I'm not lending my trust to a proven set of lies.
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For those who want to speed things up and want proof now. For $9.99 you can download an app called CE5 contact which guides you through meditation and tones to call in UAP.
https://youtu.be/v03hbaEnSGM?feature=shared
😳
All about the selling of science fiction.
...
The heck, even if only some part of Grusch's claims are true, it is a gamechanger, and the denialist worldview crumbles like a house of cards.
not sure who you're referring to as 'denialists', but those critiquing here have never said there are no ET just that no conclusiive evidence has been presented yet.
No you and others have repeatedly called it nonsense, make believe, and worse whilst denigrating the evidence and testimony given by serving military and civilian alike.
Which is why when you see this reported and investigated you'll see they always turn to you, Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise. Your name crops up regularly along with Petes and Annie's and all the other denialists that have contributed regularly here. Thank goodness we have you.
The little girl has soiled her nappy again, maybe you should check with the doctor for that frothing at the mouth and drooling problem. Something here smells like a pile of hot dung.
That's mature and relevant to the thread.
I reply the way you write to everyone else. I expected you would treat us as you want to be treated. Like a liitle screaming, crying baby.
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Yes it is whatabout. Your history the mythology the beliefs the fantasy science fiction is all flawed, lies, fables, fakes and not science. What about that? Talk about escaping the question, you divert and don't answer. What about all the fakes and debunked stories for over 60 years. And your pal Lowls doesn't answer anything, he just turns into Donald Trump and starts spewing personal attacks, trying to bully anyone who disagrees. How childish.
If you want it all to be about Grush and parallel planes, that's fine. But you have to excuse me for pointing out, UFOs and Aliens have attracted a large set of liars and nut cases. Religious doomsday cults that ended in suicide. End of the world, with the aliens coming down to save us.
Whatabout the history and the false claims. That's a fair question to ask.
1. You repeatedly, and with premeditation, use whataboutism, which is a logical fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
2. You build a straw man, and then you burn it, which is another logical fallacy:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
3. When confronted with facts, you go berserk and spit out vitriol in an act resembling religious fanaticism. Destroying the chessboard when you are losing. You don't bring any constructive arguments of your own to the discussion. Zero positive contribution to the subject. You just claim that it is all fraud and lies and all people dealing with the phenomenon are frauds - because some might have been - when there is absolutely no causal relationship between those people and what is happening now with Grusch's claims.
Therefore I must conclude that you don't display any good will and don't seem to be interested in finding out the truth about the phenomenon. And as a result of that, participating in a conversation with you is intellectually a very underwhelming activity. You don't even know what my personal views about the nature of the phenomenon are, because your fanaticism doesn't allow the possibility of explanations that are contrary to your belief system. And in this thread, I did try to see the phenomenon from multiple angles - including a possibility of a psyop. Viewing an issue from multiple sides and considering various explanations requires good will, and as I wrote above - I don't think you have it.
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I wrote to the forum, not to you. Maybe you can tell me, what do you think of Bob Lazar, Billy Meier, Ed Walters, George Adamski, David Icke, Jonathan Reed, and Steven Greer? How about Roswell, Ray Santilli and the alien autopsy? Or are you only going with Grusch from now on and ignoring the long history of fakes and frauds.
As I said, please work on your logical reasoning skills. What you present here is a classic case of whataboutism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Maybe some, or all, of those people were frauds, maybe there were some nuggets of truth in their claims, I honestly don't know. Some are suspicious.
But whatever they claimed is absolutely irrelevant to the person of Grusch. They don't matter. All it takes is one single confirmed case and the whole denialism crumbles like a house of cards.
Grusch is an investigator tasked with this job by the US government. He did present evidence to the Inspector General of the Intelligence Community - Thomas Monheim. Based on that evidence he briefed Congressmen about his findings. Coming out of the briefing, they said "Grusch's claims have merit", "Grusch is legit".
These are facts, for crying out loud.
Another fact is that a lobby in the House fought hard (and won) against the Schumer amendment, which had been passed earlier in the Senate. It is logical to assume that there is some struggle in the circles of power; some are for disclosure, others are against it.
Now, can I say with 100% certainty that what Grusch claims is true? No, I cannot, because I have no means to verify that information myself. And that is OK.
But if you think that Grusch doesn't say the truth, the IGIC told lies to the Congress Committe, then you must deal with one very serious question and that question is:
W*T*F is going on???
Escaping that question is intellectual laziness and mediocrity. If you think that there is something suspicious going behind the curtain, then there you go: that is a conspiracy theory, too.
Yes it is whatabout. Your history the mythology the beliefs the fantasy science fiction is all flawed, lies, fables, fakes and not science. What about that? Talk about escaping the question, you divert and don't answer. What about all the fakes and debunked stories for over 60 years. And your pal Lowls doesn't answer anything, he just turns into Donald Trump and starts spewing personal attacks, trying to bully anyone who disagrees. How childish.
If you want it all to be about Grush and parallel planes, that's fine. But you have to excuse me for pointing out, UFOs and Aliens have attracted a large set of liars and nut cases. Religious doomsday cults that ended in suicide. End of the world, with the aliens coming down to save us.
Whatabout the history and the false claims. That's a fair question to ask.
If I borrowed money from you and didn't pay it back, then borrowed again and didn't pay back, would you just find a way around that and loan me money again? The alien and ufo claims have been biased and unsupported and instead of payback, we just get more unsupported debunked claims and frauds. Why should I buy that? How many times does someone get fooled before they stop and see there's something wrong with the history? I'm not lending my trust to a proven set of lies.
Doesn't answer questions after specifically answering your questions despite your insults?
So you want everyone to know you vehemently do not believe in any of it and that you lack the self control to state that in a mature way or state that and leave the thread? Instead you rant like a petulant child because why - the path to truth didn't live up to your expectations and you've had enough?
The ufology scene is full of fakes and charlatans and has been for decades and the best way to change that is what ... come here and explode regularly and defiantly that'll learn em?
Makes sense
Although I fear you're wasting precious life by making this your hill to die on. Not even a tussock is it.
I pity you if you cannot enjoy stories and experiences and campfire anecdotes about UFOs and take from them a secret excitement. All areas of life are filled with scumbags users and fakes but there isn't any point joining them. You've become the same at the other end of the scale.
Well rant away if you wish I can't stop you and hurl all the insults you feel you need to. It won't change anything out there. Personally I've always enjoyed ghost stories and have been lucky enough to have seen a couple of ghosts and years later something happened regarding one that I saw that was humbling. And although I've looked up forever I've only ever seen one UFO. Maybe it was aliens who knows. I feel we will soon find out if the possibility has grown. Or we will not. Hating and ranting won't change that outcome it will however change the wait. Meanwhile I'll keep posting events around the disclosure effort and you can call me more names it's fine. You've explained why you feel the way you do so jave at it and maybe we can give you some wonder back and soon.
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Grusch told legislators that he was told there has been a "multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program" but was denied access to the program.
He told his superiors, essentially "becoming a whistleblower," for which he said he suffered retaliation. Other people have been harmed or injured both by UAP activity and by government efforts to cover up the program, he testified, without giving specifics.
When asked by Rep. Nancy Mace, R-S.C., whether the U.S. has the bodies of the pilots of crashed aircraft from the UAP programs, Grusch said, "Biologics came with some of these recoveries."
When Mace asked whether they were human or nonhuman, Grusch said, "nonhuman, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge of the (UAP) program I talked to that are currently still on the program." He later said that he had not seen any bodies personally.
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Grusch told legislators that he was told there has been a "multi-decade UAP crash retrieval and reverse engineering program" but was denied access to the program.
He told his superiors, essentially "becoming a whistleblower," for which he said he suffered retaliation. Other people have been harmed or injured both by UAP activity and by government efforts to cover up the program, he testified, without giving specifics.
When asked by Rep. Nancy Mace, R-S.C., whether the U.S. has the bodies of the pilots of crashed aircraft from the UAP programs, Grusch said, "Biologics came with some of these recoveries."
When Mace asked whether they were human or nonhuman, Grusch said, "nonhuman, and that was the assessment of people with direct knowledge of the (UAP) program I talked to that are currently still on the program." He later said that he had not seen any bodies personally.
Yes all correct. And whilst it isnt popular there are restrictions to what he could say. And I understand that. Remember sitting behind him was his lawyer who briefed him thoroughly.
Also his own complaint investigation was still ongoing and as anyone knows you must be careful not to prejudice a case by revealing specifics.
It was odd that he chose to say biologics instead of bodies. But I assume he lifted that phrase directly from the reports rather than chose it. And as you say he initially claimed he had not seen them for himself. However that doesn't invalidate his testimony because as he stated he attempted to gain access to the programmes and was denied. He couldn't get read in.
So people can use that as they will but most are clueless as to how that works. And in context that's surprising because he had access to a sh%t tonne of programmes. And that would be very exotic research. I've trawled the CIA website for declassified programmes and Jesus the stuff they were attempting in the 50s was out there. I mean out there. I've also read through some of the Russian stuff and decades ago they were building high energy targeted microwave blasters and mounting them on turrets around bases.
So he attempted to gain access, was refused and then raised the alarm because he was tasked with cataloguing all the secret programmes. Which is when he began being approached by those in these programmes and they told him what was happening.
So he could have left it at that and filed his reports and sent them up the chain snd to be honest it should have died there. It could have been killed dead at that point. And he'd appear alongside Greer in 20 years ... so why didn't it? It should have but its exploded on such a scale that the fan the sh&t hit has been smashed back to the 70s.
I can only assume it is being orchestrated. And the way this is happening in stages stinks. It stinks because Chris Mellon is behind it. He is loaded. More money than God. Why does he care. Elizondo again why. He's walked away, made his money and milked his position. Set for life on the circuit. Why.
I personally think this is too meticulous and too orchestrated. A couple of weeks and another chunk. And so on. It isnt drip drip, its watergate. And its reaching a point where in a minute someone is going to step foreward and dump it all out there because they can't be touched. Or it's gonna be dumped out there as part of the schedule.
Mellon and Elizondo walked out of the Pentagon with go fast, gimble and Tic Tac under their arm and did so exploiting a loophole. what how?
Cockpit footage taken by pilots on their own phones has been confiscated and classified. And there is legal push to retrieve those phones and data because the law makes it the pilots property. You can go on utube and see navy pilots go pro footage of them performing dog fights. Crystal clear. I watched cockpit footage of a pilot following a misile side by side from his head cam. Some pilots even have their own channels on utube. So how on earth can they confiscate footage or UAP legimately using national security rules.
What legal loophole got Chad Underwoods footage out there and Mellon and Elizondo aren't making numberplates.
Money, power and permission and that is significant if true.
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An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html)
As usually, Bernardo is very interested in parsimony. However, there is no guarantee that parsimony will lead to the truth. Still, an interesting hypothesis, an intersting point of view and a very balanced article. It might also be one of multiple aspects of the phenomenon. Bernardo had consulted the essay with such people as e.g. Garry Nolan and Hal Puthoff.
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An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html)
As usually, Bernardo is very interested in parsimony. However, there is no guarantee that parsimony will lead to the truth. Still, an interesting hypothesis, an intersting point of view and a very balanced article. It might also be one of multiple aspects of the phenomenon. Bernardo had consulted the essay with such people as e.g. Garry Nolan and Hal Puthoff.
This the problem with articles. It's already out of date. While KirkPatrick did acknowledge that spheres are world wide and classified as UAP he has published an article of his own. If anything it helps prove he was a bad actor but still. Its certainly getting ugly out there. I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell. The guy is unhinged. Not only has he shown he couldn't get access to stuff he's whining that he was being bypassed. And this shows why he should have been. Jesus he is a real dodgy guy.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-what-i-learned-as-the-u-s-governments-ufo-hunter/ (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/heres-what-i-learned-as-the-u-s-governments-ufo-hunter/)
-
An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html)
This the problem with articles. It's already out of date. While KirkPatrick did acknowledge that spheres are world wide and classified as UAP he has published an article of his own. If anything it helps prove he was a bad actor but still. Its certainly getting ugly out there. I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell. The guy is unhinged. ... Jesus he is a real dodgy guy.
LDV81 ---thanks for the link, it's a very interesting & well thought out argument, with little actual discussion of extra-terrestials, concentrating more on the possible evolution of terrestrial non-human intelligences - no test will prove they don't exist, but it is possible to demonstrate evidence that they DO exist.
lowls:
It’s a LONG article – did you actually read it? Or just repeat your kneejerk denialist claims that all skeptics can be dismissed? The article doesn’t say anything like you just claimed
‘what’s good for the goose...’ department: Importantly, did you read his credentials? They are as good if not better than most of the folk you support – and how can you, as an admitted layman, dare to challenge his veracity?!?
I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell
'where's the beef?' should be simple to show the passages where he does this, but i doubt you can since in fact, he doesn't even mention Elizondo, Knapp or Corbell and his comment on Mellon is straightforward:
Christopher Mellon, who spent nearly twenty years in the US Intelligence Community and served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, [has] lent credibility to the claim that there are active UAP crash-retrieval and reverse-engineering programmes
quotes from the actual article
In my view, a significant portion of the published material could benefit from greater rigor, empirical grounding, theoretical clarity, and logical reasoning. This field often appears to diverge from the standards of intellectual precision and level-headed analysis that hold in academia. However, recent developments over the past six or seven years invite us to re-examine the subject from a more open and inquisitive perspective.
...
Enough has been officially acknowledged since 2017 that the topic is now undoubtedly deserving of serious treatment. After laying foundations for my argument, I will then proceed to elaborate on what I currently consider to be the most level-headed and plausible account of the phenomenon. And to anticipate a question you are bound to be already asking, no, I don’t think it is aliens from Zeta Reticuli; the facts may be a lot more surprising and closer to home than that.
...
the names and credentials of the individuals mentioned above are not in doubt; they are who they say they are. And their ranks and roles put them in a position to plausibly know what they claim to know. These individuals are willing to testify under oath in public hearings and confidentially provide evidence to members of congress.
So.. no ad hominem attacks, and NO disparagement of those folk - instead he examines several hypotheses and describes methods that could actually prove them –stating they found non-human biologics requires publication in a peer reviewed journal not just testimony from someone, who may sincerely believe it but has not presented any actual facts
Therefore, if the biologics in the freezers of the powers-that-be have the same biochemistry we do, I believe it is safe to assume that they are terrestrial; they are our older cousins—likely forever traumatised by earlier planetary cataclysms—and certainly not aliens.
Another prediction of the ‘ultra-terrestrial’ hypothesis is this: the materials—say, the metals—used in the UAP craft should have isotope ratios compatible with an earthly origin, as opposed to one outside the solar system. If the powers-that-be are in possession of such craft, this shouldn’t be a difficult test to perform.
Together, the two test results suggested above, if mutually consistent, should be conclusive.
Most of the article is a discussion of the possibility of non-human terrestrial intelligence
Notice that my claim here is not that it is likely that high-tech nonhuman civilisations have emerged on Earth before us; I cannot evaluate the probabilities involved. My claim is that, based on what we know, such civilisations are not impossible or inconsistent with the geological record. On the contrary: as Dr. Schmidt and Dr. Frank point out, the record shows several periods of global warming consistent with large-scale industrialization.
A side discussion maps the difficulties of translating the language of a species that doesn’t share our cognitive space (whales, praying manti? ) great SF series by Adrian Tchaikovsky – Children of Time & “The 3 body problem trilogy” by Cixin Liu about the difficulties of dealing with an intelligent group of spiders
His final caveat:
Notice, however, that the hypothesis proposed here presupposes the UAP data disclosed thus far to be authentic, and not the result of a sprawling disinformation campaign. In the latter case, the key motivations and empirical ground for the speculations in this essay would be void, and the hypothesis should be disregarded in its entirety
-
An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html)
This the problem with articles. It's already out of date. While KirkPatrick did acknowledge that spheres are world wide and classified as UAP he has published an article of his own. If anything it helps prove he was a bad actor but still. Its certainly getting ugly out there. I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell. The guy is unhinged. ... Jesus he is a real dodgy guy.
LDV81 ---thanks for the link, it's a very interesting & well thought out argument, with little actual discussion of extra-terrestials, concentrating more on the possible evolution of terrestrial non-human intelligences - no test will prove they don't exist, but it is possible to demonstrate evidence that they DO exist.
lowls:
It’s a LONG article – did you actually read it? Or just repeat your kneejerk denialist claims that all skeptics can be dismissed? The article doesn’t say anything like you just claimed
‘what’s good for the goose...’ department: Importantly, did you read his credentials? They are as good if not better than most of the folk you support – and how can you, as an admitted layman, dare to challenge his veracity?!?
I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell
'where's the beef?' should be simple to show the passages where he does this, but i doubt you can since in fact, he doesn't even mention Elizondo, Knapp or Corbell and his comment on Mellon is straightforward:
Christopher Mellon, who spent nearly twenty years in the US Intelligence Community and served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, [has] lent credibility to the claim that there are active UAP crash-retrieval and reverse-engineering programmes
quotes from the actual article
In my view, a significant portion of the published material could benefit from greater rigor, empirical grounding, theoretical clarity, and logical reasoning. This field often appears to diverge from the standards of intellectual precision and level-headed analysis that hold in academia. However, recent developments over the past six or seven years invite us to re-examine the subject from a more open and inquisitive perspective.
...
Enough has been officially acknowledged since 2017 that the topic is now undoubtedly deserving of serious treatment. After laying foundations for my argument, I will then proceed to elaborate on what I currently consider to be the most level-headed and plausible account of the phenomenon. And to anticipate a question you are bound to be already asking, no, I don’t think it is aliens from Zeta Reticuli; the facts may be a lot more surprising and closer to home than that.
...
the names and credentials of the individuals mentioned above are not in doubt; they are who they say they are. And their ranks and roles put them in a position to plausibly know what they claim to know. These individuals are willing to testify under oath in public hearings and confidentially provide evidence to members of congress.
So.. no ad hominem attacks, and NO disparagement of those folk - instead he examines several hypotheses and describes methods that could actually prove them –stating they found non-human biologics requires publication in a peer reviewed journal not just testimony from someone, who may sincerely believe it but has not presented any actual facts
Therefore, if the biologics in the freezers of the powers-that-be have the same biochemistry we do, I believe it is safe to assume that they are terrestrial; they are our older cousins—likely forever traumatised by earlier planetary cataclysms—and certainly not aliens.
Another prediction of the ‘ultra-terrestrial’ hypothesis is this: the materials—say, the metals—used in the UAP craft should have isotope ratios compatible with an earthly origin, as opposed to one outside the solar system. If the powers-that-be are in possession of such craft, this shouldn’t be a difficult test to perform.
Together, the two test results suggested above, if mutually consistent, should be conclusive.
Most of the article is a discussion of the possibility of non-human terrestrial intelligence
Notice that my claim here is not that it is likely that high-tech nonhuman civilisations have emerged on Earth before us; I cannot evaluate the probabilities involved. My claim is that, based on what we know, such civilisations are not impossible or inconsistent with the geological record. On the contrary: as Dr. Schmidt and Dr. Frank point out, the record shows several periods of global warming consistent with large-scale industrialization.
A side discussion maps the difficulties of translating the language of a species that doesn’t share our cognitive space (whales, praying manti? ) great SF series by Adrian Tchaikovsky – Children of Time & “The 3 body problem trilogy” by Cixin Liu about the difficulties of dealing with an intelligent group of spiders
His final caveat:
Notice, however, that the hypothesis proposed here presupposes the UAP data disclosed thus far to be authentic, and not the result of a sprawling disinformation campaign. In the latter case, the key motivations and empirical ground for the speculations in this essay would be void, and the hypothesis should be disregarded in its entirety
I did. I didn't bother reading all of what you wrote why would I? I've no interest in anything you have to say. Glad you've found something you enjoyed.
-
An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html)
This the problem with articles. It's already out of date. While KirkPatrick did acknowledge that spheres are world wide and classified as UAP he has published an article of his own. If anything it helps prove he was a bad actor but still. Its certainly getting ugly out there. I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell. The guy is unhinged. ... Jesus he is a real dodgy guy.
LDV81 ---thanks for the link, it's a very interesting & well thought out argument, with little actual discussion of extra-terrestials, concentrating more on the possible evolution of terrestrial non-human intelligences - no test will prove they don't exist, but it is possible to demonstrate evidence that they DO exist.
lowls:
It’s a LONG article – did you actually read it? Or just repeat your kneejerk denialist claims that all skeptics can be dismissed? The article doesn’t say anything like you just claimed
‘what’s good for the goose...’ department: Importantly, did you read his credentials? They are as good if not better than most of the folk you support – and how can you, as an admitted layman, dare to challenge his veracity?!?
I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell
'where's the beef?' should be simple to show the passages where he does this, but i doubt you can since in fact, he doesn't even mention Elizondo, Knapp or Corbell and his comment on Mellon is straightforward:
Christopher Mellon, who spent nearly twenty years in the US Intelligence Community and served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, [has] lent credibility to the claim that there are active UAP crash-retrieval and reverse-engineering programmes
quotes from the actual article
In my view, a significant portion of the published material could benefit from greater rigor, empirical grounding, theoretical clarity, and logical reasoning. This field often appears to diverge from the standards of intellectual precision and level-headed analysis that hold in academia. However, recent developments over the past six or seven years invite us to re-examine the subject from a more open and inquisitive perspective.
...
Enough has been officially acknowledged since 2017 that the topic is now undoubtedly deserving of serious treatment. After laying foundations for my argument, I will then proceed to elaborate on what I currently consider to be the most level-headed and plausible account of the phenomenon. And to anticipate a question you are bound to be already asking, no, I don’t think it is aliens from Zeta Reticuli; the facts may be a lot more surprising and closer to home than that.
...
the names and credentials of the individuals mentioned above are not in doubt; they are who they say they are. And their ranks and roles put them in a position to plausibly know what they claim to know. These individuals are willing to testify under oath in public hearings and confidentially provide evidence to members of congress.
So.. no ad hominem attacks, and NO disparagement of those folk - instead he examines several hypotheses and describes methods that could actually prove them –stating they found non-human biologics requires publication in a peer reviewed journal not just testimony from someone, who may sincerely believe it but has not presented any actual facts
Therefore, if the biologics in the freezers of the powers-that-be have the same biochemistry we do, I believe it is safe to assume that they are terrestrial; they are our older cousins—likely forever traumatised by earlier planetary cataclysms—and certainly not aliens.
Another prediction of the ‘ultra-terrestrial’ hypothesis is this: the materials—say, the metals—used in the UAP craft should have isotope ratios compatible with an earthly origin, as opposed to one outside the solar system. If the powers-that-be are in possession of such craft, this shouldn’t be a difficult test to perform.
Together, the two test results suggested above, if mutually consistent, should be conclusive.
Most of the article is a discussion of the possibility of non-human terrestrial intelligence
Notice that my claim here is not that it is likely that high-tech nonhuman civilisations have emerged on Earth before us; I cannot evaluate the probabilities involved. My claim is that, based on what we know, such civilisations are not impossible or inconsistent with the geological record. On the contrary: as Dr. Schmidt and Dr. Frank point out, the record shows several periods of global warming consistent with large-scale industrialization.
A side discussion maps the difficulties of translating the language of a species that doesn’t share our cognitive space (whales, praying manti? ) great SF series by Adrian Tchaikovsky – Children of Time & “The 3 body problem trilogy” by Cixin Liu about the difficulties of dealing with an intelligent group of spiders
His final caveat:
Notice, however, that the hypothesis proposed here presupposes the UAP data disclosed thus far to be authentic, and not the result of a sprawling disinformation campaign. In the latter case, the key motivations and empirical ground for the speculations in this essay would be void, and the hypothesis should be disregarded in its entirety
I did. I didn't bother reading all of what you wrote why would I? I've no interest in anything you have to say. Glad you've found something you enjoyed.
so you admit you didn't bother to read the article before condemning it! and now you can't respond not to my comments, but to the actual article that you slimed w/o actually knowing what it said?
your response is the usual ad hominem attack against the poster rather than responding to the actual questions & your mis=-representation of its content. - i quoted from the actual article & you have no response to that actual content & lying about the article you didn't bother to read!
prove me wrong!
-
An interesting analysis of the situation by Bernardo Kastrup:
https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html (https://www.bernardokastrup.com/2024/01/uaps-and-non-human-intelligence-what-is.html)
This the problem with articles. It's already out of date. While KirkPatrick did acknowledge that spheres are world wide and classified as UAP he has published an article of his own. If anything it helps prove he was a bad actor but still. Its certainly getting ugly out there. I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell. The guy is unhinged. ... Jesus he is a real dodgy guy.
LDV81 ---thanks for the link, it's a very interesting & well thought out argument, with little actual discussion of extra-terrestials, concentrating more on the possible evolution of terrestrial non-human intelligences - no test will prove they don't exist, but it is possible to demonstrate evidence that they DO exist.
lowls:
It’s a LONG article – did you actually read it? Or just repeat your kneejerk denialist claims that all skeptics can be dismissed? The article doesn’t say anything like you just claimed
‘what’s good for the goose...’ department: Importantly, did you read his credentials? They are as good if not better than most of the folk you support – and how can you, as an admitted layman, dare to challenge his veracity?!?
I mean lol its literally a hate letter to Grusch, Elizondo, Mellon and George Knapp and Corbell
'where's the beef?' should be simple to show the passages where he does this, but i doubt you can since in fact, he doesn't even mention Elizondo, Knapp or Corbell and his comment on Mellon is straightforward:
Christopher Mellon, who spent nearly twenty years in the US Intelligence Community and served as the Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defence for Intelligence, [has] lent credibility to the claim that there are active UAP crash-retrieval and reverse-engineering programmes
quotes from the actual article
In my view, a significant portion of the published material could benefit from greater rigor, empirical grounding, theoretical clarity, and logical reasoning. This field often appears to diverge from the standards of intellectual precision and level-headed analysis that hold in academia. However, recent developments over the past six or seven years invite us to re-examine the subject from a more open and inquisitive perspective.
...
Enough has been officially acknowledged since 2017 that the topic is now undoubtedly deserving of serious treatment. After laying foundations for my argument, I will then proceed to elaborate on what I currently consider to be the most level-headed and plausible account of the phenomenon. And to anticipate a question you are bound to be already asking, no, I don’t think it is aliens from Zeta Reticuli; the facts may be a lot more surprising and closer to home than that.
...
the names and credentials of the individuals mentioned above are not in doubt; they are who they say they are. And their ranks and roles put them in a position to plausibly know what they claim to know. These individuals are willing to testify under oath in public hearings and confidentially provide evidence to members of congress.
So.. no ad hominem attacks, and NO disparagement of those folk - instead he examines several hypotheses and describes methods that could actually prove them –stating they found non-human biologics requires publication in a peer reviewed journal not just testimony from someone, who may sincerely believe it but has not presented any actual facts
Therefore, if the biologics in the freezers of the powers-that-be have the same biochemistry we do, I believe it is safe to assume that they are terrestrial; they are our older cousins—likely forever traumatised by earlier planetary cataclysms—and certainly not aliens.
Another prediction of the ‘ultra-terrestrial’ hypothesis is this: the materials—say, the metals—used in the UAP craft should have isotope ratios compatible with an earthly origin, as opposed to one outside the solar system. If the powers-that-be are in possession of such craft, this shouldn’t be a difficult test to perform.
Together, the two test results suggested above, if mutually consistent, should be conclusive.
Most of the article is a discussion of the possibility of non-human terrestrial intelligence
Notice that my claim here is not that it is likely that high-tech nonhuman civilisations have emerged on Earth before us; I cannot evaluate the probabilities involved. My claim is that, based on what we know, such civilisations are not impossible or inconsistent with the geological record. On the contrary: as Dr. Schmidt and Dr. Frank point out, the record shows several periods of global warming consistent with large-scale industrialization.
A side discussion maps the difficulties of translating the language of a species that doesn’t share our cognitive space (whales, praying manti? ) great SF series by Adrian Tchaikovsky – Children of Time & “The 3 body problem trilogy” by Cixin Liu about the difficulties of dealing with an intelligent group of spiders
His final caveat:
Notice, however, that the hypothesis proposed here presupposes the UAP data disclosed thus far to be authentic, and not the result of a sprawling disinformation campaign. In the latter case, the key motivations and empirical ground for the speculations in this essay would be void, and the hypothesis should be disregarded in its entirety
I did. I didn't bother reading all of what you wrote why would I? I've no interest in anything you have to say. Glad you've found something you enjoyed.
so you admit you didn't bother to read the article before condemning it! and now you can't respond not to my comments, but to the actual article that you slimed w/o actually knowing what it said?
your response is the usual ad hominem attack against the poster rather than responding to the actual questions & your mis=-representation of its content. - i quoted from the actual article & you have no response to that actual content & lying about the article you didn't bother to read!
prove me wrong!
As your English is almost perfect I'll have to assume you're inebriated, you've lost your glasses (we've all been there), have not read what I wrote sufficiently well or are deliberately attempting to smear me.
As I said in the previous post I did, as in read the article in full. The writer gives Kirkpatrick a favourable commentary. Which would now be out of date because of the article I posted written by Kirkpatrick himself where he slams the names I mentioned. Whilst you aren't stupid you aren't very well read regarding those historically involved and so when he mentions a small group pushing the narrative he only means those who pushed the narrative and we who have followed this from the beginning know who that small core are.
The only comment I made about the original article you claim is fair was that it was already out of date. I never referred to it thereafter because my post was regarding Kirkpatrics article.
I don't have to prove anything to you because you are a disingenuous troll who doesn't understand the ironic nature of his repeated claims of attack.
So write whatever you want because we both known you are going to until any current information is buried in your latest rant. So because of that I'll bump the relevant posts when needed whenever you derail the thread again.
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Anyway and moving on ...
quite a firefight going on with governmental departments and civilian organisations regarding UAP this week.
Jeremy Corbell and Geroge Knapp released footage of the Jellyfish UAP throwing skeptics and law makers into chaos and ufology followers splut down the middle claiming nonsense like this wasn't helpful and others actually digging into the details. As mentioned Mick West almost instantly threw out a debunking video some of which had merit but he failed spectacularly on two major fronts.
At first stab his video shows it isnt as he girst claimed bird poop on the lens. Later he showed that it was an object but that it was most likely balloons and the general concensus was that it was balloons celebrating Eid. There is in all fairness a similarity roughly in shape.
As things progressed it was revealed that this UAP was filmed in 2018. Eid was in June and the footage was taken in a different part of the year. From memory I believe February or March though that may be wrong. Suffice to say it wasn't at Eid time by some months.
Mick West claimed that it wasn't filmed in 2018 at all and that it must be 2017 because he checked against publicly available satelite images and in 2017 the buildings matched better than in 2018. Eid was still June in 2017. He then found a camera operator willing to state that it was a balloon. Or collection of balloons.
However and he has refused to answer questions on this, he used satelute data to show the system used to collect the footage as being a surveillance balloon and said matching up the buildings in the image so the size match he accurately assessed the height of the S Balloon looking down and the buildings and calculated the height of the collection of balloons to be a. retain height.
Two glaring errors which he is now ignoring. He has assumed the size of the UAP. And in doing so (assuming it is an Eid balloon display) has judged the height based on that. He doesn't know its balloons. So he can't work out tye height because he can't tell distance tye object is between camera and budings.
And he cannot post the focal length of the camera lens because he doesn't know it. And in fact in the balloons own release bumf it states that it will be tethered at 1000 feet. But West claims that's it nearly double this. Later versions are tethered higher but we don't know what version this is. So he is claiming its balloons without being able to verify its size and therefore distance and height.
But he has other things to worry about because he stands accused of working with a skeptic group who also stand accused of editing the Wikipedia pages for various journalists, writers and academics involved in the UAP timeline and also changing details that are historic fact on Wikipedia pages of UAP events. Lots of them. And the reason he stands accused are that the same user that made a lot of these changes also altered his Wikipedia page to make him look great, allegedly. A lot of very angry people none less angry then Gary Nolan who was a target as was Ross Coulthart, Corbell, Mellon, Knapp etc ...
Several members of Congress have taken their gloves off after the latest UAP footage of the jellyfish and have watched Corbell and Knapps interview with a surveillance camera operative who confirmed that he knew there were 17 minutes of footage. But the two videos of Jellyfish amount to about 4 minutes. Missing footage which Corbell and Knapp claim was confiscated. Today they have stated they know by whom. And Corbell is going to release what department took it.
For anyone that's followed this in the last two years I can say with complete sincerity and honesty that I have NEVER seen anything like this in my life and I've followed this since I was a kid. Nothing has ever happened this was before but it is amazing to witness. Maybe in the past one ufologist has made outlandish claims but this .... jaw dropping behaviour. The closest was Lazar. This is however history happening live. And the week isn't even over.
-
regarding speculation about the Jellyfish UAP footage the Pentagon have released the following statement:
Susan Gough states:
"We do not comment on the authenticity of alleged DOD material that may have been leaked. DOD takes public interest in unidentified anomalous phenomena seriously and is committed to openness and accountability to the American people.
"This commitment must be balanced with the department’s obligation to protect sensitive information, sources, and methods. To that end, AARO will provide updates to the public via its website as it resolves UAP cases, including sharing the analytic approach and method used for each case, as well as imagery, when approved for public release."
Although typically they confirm the footage that's been leaked in around 3 weeks from its release. So we shall see.
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While Mick West is still defending his balloon theory for the Jellyfish footage Dave Falch has stepped in to give his analysis.
Conclusion: Black DARPA craft undergoing testing and footage leaked.
https://youtu.be/S9qbB23BuhI?feature=shared
He does however explain what it's unlikely to be. Spoiler: No balloon animals
-
...
Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise
I'll believe Pete over the military any day!
-
...
Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise
I'll believe Pete over the military any day!
That's an interesting stance. You must elaborate.
-
Earlier this week it was revealed that a skeptic group may have been altering the Wikipedia pages of ufo investigators, sympathetic academics and UFO and UAP historic events to suit their own agenda. Mick West, and Susan Gerbic recieved the brunt of the comments regarding the changes.
From The Good Trouble Show - Matt Ford explains.
https://www.youtube.com/live/Bq-GuSs8kX8?feature=shared (https://www.youtube.com/live/Bq-GuSs8kX8?feature=shared)
3 hours long and a bit hap hazard but it is brutal. When they locate these editors who have encircled the UAP subject and deliberately pushed their own agenda across multiple subjects not just UAP there will be legal cases. The I.P. addresses are known. Syntax across known debunkers and editors has been run through chat GPT for analysis and its conclusion was that certain debunkers and editors have a high degree of either being the same person or knowing each other extremely well due to spelling errors and punctuation mistakes and vocabulary used including phrases.
-
...
Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise
I'll believe Pete over the military any day!
That's an interesting stance. You must elaborate.
I was mostly joking but not completely. Pete seems to have a very balanced view of most things. I used to have a lot of respect (or at least an assumption of competency) about the military but after some of them were in a previous administration it appears otherwise (I'm thinking of one who should be in jail except for a pardon), plus I know of one who was in military intelligence who was a complete crackpot. Very nice guy but not who you would want in charge of anything, and I think he was a Colonel. The crackpots seem to mostly be in the Air Force so maybe the other branches are better. However, in my experience most military people have little background or abilities to make reasonable conclusions about scientific phenomena - I would leave that to the scientists and keep the military out of it. As for UAPs, I'll take the opinion of independent scientists over the military any day.
-
...
Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise
I'll believe Pete over the military any day!
That's an interesting stance. You must elaborate.
I was mostly joking but not completely. Pete seems to have a very balanced view of most things. I used to have a lot of respect (or at least an assumption of competency) about the military but after some of them were in a previous administration it appears otherwise (I'm thinking of one who should be in jail except for a pardon), plus I know of one who was in military intelligence who was a complete crackpot. Very nice guy but not who you would want in charge of anything, and I think he was a Colonel. The crackpots seem to mostly be in the Air Force so maybe the other branches are better. However, in my experience most military people have little background or abilities to make reasonable conclusions about scientific phenomena - I would leave that to the scientists and keep the military out of it. As for UAPs, I'll take the opinion of independent scientists over the military any day.
The military isn't the epicentre of crackpots but I do agree. Scientists tend ro default to being skeptics first in many circumstances no less in the subject of UAP and this is not scientific at all. All data must be considered. Instead they tend to approach using prosaic means and if that fails they claim lack of data but exclude that provided by witnesses of any stripe who, also can claim their share of crackpots also.
In the militaries favour are on the lower levels people who are trained well to use their equipment, a claim not many scientists or skeptics can share. And in the upper tiers you get denial and omission for whatever reason. Ego, position, reputation and religion and a denial.
This is now changing and so rapidly as never before seen.
Science is in the business of knowns as a metric where it is clear this is not usual. Interestingly witnesses statements aren't used for analysis but they are used to prove a prosaic claim.
Time will tell.
-
...
Pete and gang for advice and confirmation instead of experts military or otherwise
I'll believe Pete over the military any day!
That's an interesting stance. You must elaborate.
I was mostly joking but not completely. Pete seems to have a very balanced view of most things. I used to have a lot of respect (or at least an assumption of competency) about the military but after some of them were in a previous administration it appears otherwise (I'm thinking of one who should be in jail except for a pardon), plus I know of one who was in military intelligence who was a complete crackpot. Very nice guy but not who you would want in charge of anything, and I think he was a Colonel. The crackpots seem to mostly be in the Air Force so maybe the other branches are better. However, in my experience most military people have little background or abilities to make reasonable conclusions about scientific phenomena - I would leave that to the scientists and keep the military out of it. As for UAPs, I'll take the opinion of independent scientists over the military any day.
The military isn't the epicentre of crackpots but I do agree. Scientists tend ro default to being skeptics first in many circumstances no less in the subject of UAP and this is not scientific at all. All data must be considered. Instead they tend to approach using prosaic means and if that fails they claim lack of data but exclude that provided by witnesses of any stripe who, also can claim their share of crackpots also.
...
you don't understand how science works - skepticism is part of the method so it's no defect. you say 'all data must be considered' but that's the problem - there often IS NO DATA to be considered - just hearsay, claims to have confirming facts (even bodies spacecraft parts, non-terrestrial materials, etc) but not able to produce them, often claiming it's classified . So, once more if there are no actual facts, what you continue to fail to understand is their conclusion is there's nothing there NOW, it doesn't mean they reject the possibility confirming evidence will actually be presented - hopefully in a peer reviewed journal.-
those who say their info is classified or otherwise unavailable may be correct, but a scientist can't make decisions about something they can't see
so, back to basics - extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. it's the claimants who are responsible for providing it,, not those who ask for such evidence - skeptics can't prove a negative.
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box.
even the photographer's claim 'it's on earth' cannot be verified. it could also be ai generated
-
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
Not much. For a lot of reasons.
First, as cascoly already hinted at, the technical quality of the image is not great. More importantly, you are withholding practically all additional information that a scientist would usually have to evaluate such a photo, like for example, where it was taken (that it was taken on Earth and not for example Bajor or Quonos is kind of a given), when it was taken, what scale it has, any information about the environment, any information you would get from touching it (you could probably tell whether it is made from clay or metal or plastic or cardboard etc.) and so on.
What I can tell you is that is does not seem to be translucent, as you cannot see the background through it and it casts a shadow.
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box.
even the photographer's claim 'it's on earth' cannot be verified. it could also be ai generated
Precisely and this is unfortunately where we are with UAP.
Debunkers don't need to ask for more data.
Skeptics don't tend to ask for more data.
Science can't be given more data which it needs other than this photo which as you say shows nothing.
But you've excluded me from the equation. Which may happen more than not.
You could have asked if I had a better photo. Any footage, where it was found, its dimensions, its weight and of course what is inside it but in order to get that far we would need a reliable platform to display these photos and answer questions and the answers scrutinised. Lacking any further evidence of value the witness becomes some evidence or the only evidence and when enough of that is gathered patterns can emerge that may reveal something that would otherwise be missed.
AARO it seems is not that platform because Kirkpatrick has now been proven to be a liar. Not just a skeptical scientist being careful and scientific. In his oped he has blatantly lied and it seems Gough and his new ex boss (who's career role has always been to create misinformation campaigns for the government) were his handlers. Statements now claim today that even the people on his hand picked team were not permitted to take notes when taking statements in interviews which were largely over the phone.
It's a mess. And it's unravelling extremely fast in real time.
So with luck some significant releases will be happening shortly because Elizondo has now stated yesterday in response to Kirkpatrick "if you won't tell the truth then we will" because he knows full well who gave testimony to Kirkpatrick and what he was told and by how many. As does Grusch and Mellon. And Mellon has also exposed Kirkpatrick as a liar today.
Science would love to be given the freedom to examine UAP data. But it has to wait for it like
all the rest of us.
-
Hot off the press
https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3656428/press-release-evaluation-of-the-dods-actions-regarding-unidentified-anomalous-p/ (https://www.dodig.mil/In-the-Spotlight/Article/3656428/press-release-evaluation-of-the-dods-actions-regarding-unidentified-anomalous-p/)
Not read it yet but will do shortly. Wonder how they did.
Oh dear couple of paragraphs in and ....
The DoD OIG also found that the DoD’s lack of a comprehensive, coordinated approach to address UAP may pose a threat to military forces and national security. For instance, the DoD OIG determined that the DoD has no overarching UAP policy and, as a result, it lacks assurance that national security and flight safety threats to the United States from UAP have been identified and mitigated.
They refer to the full(er) report from August 2023 which can be found here
https://www.dodig.mil/reports.html/Article/3496071/evaluation-of-the-dods-actions-regarding-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-dodig/ (https://www.dodig.mil/reports.html/Article/3496071/evaluation-of-the-dods-actions-regarding-unidentified-anomalous-phenomena-dodig/)
and scroll to the bottom and click on this area to download the 16 page report.
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Is it available in the USA at least a spaceship (flying saucer) from aliens?
This would help strengthen existing fighters and bombers.
-
Senator Gillibrand questioned by Askapol who the new director of AARO is and she sates that she asked AARO staffers whonit is and they didnt know. This appeared on their own website suddenly
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box.
even the photographer's claim 'it's on earth' cannot be verified. it could also be ai generated
Precisely and this is unfortunately where we are with UAP.
Debunkers don't need to ask for more data.
Skeptics don't tend to ask for more data.
Science can't be given more data which it needs other than this photo which as you say shows nothing.
But you've excluded me from the equation.
...
Science would love to be given the freedom to examine UAP data. But it has to wait for it like
all the rest of us.
of COURSE science (and skeptics) need more data, as you admit in the final sentence, hence their tentative conclusion:
whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. - Wittgenstein
simply put, you don't matter - you asked about the photo and the replies emphasized the need for more data, not your CV - examining you would be the argument from authority --"they're a military genius, therefore they must be right" - look where that's gotten us in the past - lies about CIA intervention in Iran in the 5s, and a host of other countries, the bay of pigs, the cuban missile crisis and most damaging the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box.
even the photographer's claim 'it's on earth' cannot be verified. it could also be ai generated
Precisely and this is unfortunately where we are with UAP.
Debunkers don't need to ask for more data.
Skeptics don't tend to ask for more data.
Science can't be given more data which it needs other than this photo which as you say shows nothing.
But you've excluded me from the equation.
...
Science would love to be given the freedom to examine UAP data. But it has to wait for it like
all the rest of us.
of COURSE science (and skeptics) need more data, as you admit in the final sentence, hence their tentative conclusion:
whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. - Wittgenstein
simply put, you don't matter - you asked about the photo and the replies emphasized the need for more data, not your CV - examining you would be the argument from authority --"they're a military genius, therefore they must be right" - look where that's gotten us in the past - lies about CIA intervention in Iran in the 5s, and a host of other countries, the bay of pigs, the cuban missile crisis and most damaging the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
Right but we can't get to the point where science can have more data because:
There is no reliable repository therefore it all gets dumped on twitter, Facebook and utube. Once there it gets picked over by the Mick Wests and his ilk and tossed aside.
I wasn't offering a CV (slight exaggeration and neither was it about me but about witnesses) and we don't need to place witness statements to the exclusion of all else, wr need to also have witness statements regardless of social position. All data is valid. Or none of it is. Witnesses give context. Witnesses correct assumptions. Witnesses may but only, may, be unreliable. Not all.
Your way is no longer working in this circumstance. If science knew anything, science would have built it already. It hasn't that we are aware of so any assumption it has is incorrect because that's all it is, is an assumption.
But someone has built it and its being seen with increasing regularity and governments are spending a lot of time, money and resources on something that isn't allegedly real.
Kirkpatrick claims there is no evidence of extra terrestrial anything. Which is great. Why has AARO got new director. Why have the US government issued a statement yesturday stating they aren't doing enough to make our airspace more safe from UAP. Why did Senators Schumer and Rounds create a brutal amendment. Why are congressional members going to hold future UAP briefings once they have investigated the information divulged to them in the classified meeting last week. Why did they state that no one in that meeting was left in any doubt that Grusch wasn't legitimate.
Surely this should die right now or in fact following Kirkpatricks misjudged oped. Why did Elizondo threaten Kirkpatrick that if you are not willing to tell the truth then we are. Elizondo has been a pain in the arse regarding openness. He never is. It's all duty and patriotism. What's happened to make him no longer care about that.
It needs to be pushed kicking and screaming into the light no matter the cost. Because to not do so now when too much has been leaked would cause open rebellion in the Intelligence agencies and we all know what that looks like - Snowdon etc
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box.
even the photographer's claim 'it's on earth' cannot be verified. it could also be ai generated
Precisely and this is unfortunately where we are with UAP.
Debunkers don't need to ask for more data.
Skeptics don't tend to ask for more data.
Science can't be given more data which it needs other than this photo which as you say shows nothing.
But you've excluded me from the equation.
...
Science would love to be given the freedom to examine UAP data. But it has to wait for it like
all the rest of us.
of COURSE science (and skeptics) need more data, as you admit in the final sentence, hence their tentative conclusion:
whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. - Wittgenstein
simply put, you don't matter - you asked about the photo and the replies emphasized the need for more data, not your CV - examining you would be the argument from authority --"they're a military genius, therefore they must be right" - look where that's gotten us in the past - lies about CIA intervention in Iran in the 5s, and a host of other countries, the bay of pigs, the cuban missile crisis and most damaging the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
Right but we can't get to the point where science can have more data because:
There is no reliable repository therefore it all gets dumped on twitter, Facebook and utube. Once there it gets picked over by the Mick Wests and his ilk and tossed aside.
I wasn't offering a CV (slight exaggeration and neither was it about me but about witnesses)
and we don't need to place witness statements to the exclusion of all else, wr need to also have witness statements regardless of social position. All data is valid. Or none of it is. Witnesses give context. Witnesses correct assumptions. Witnesses may but only, may, be unreliable. Not all.
so your 'photo query' was disingenuous - you just used a pointless example to regurgitate your uninformed views of how science works and slime critics once more .
All data is valid. Or none of it is. - nonsense - are we supposed to include flat earthers, birthers, election or holocaust deniers in our considerations?
Your way is no longer working in this circumstance. If science knew anything, science would have built it already. It hasn't that we are aware of so any assumption it has is incorrect because that's all it is, is an assumption.
once again you expose your lack of understanding - it's not my way, altho my background in the sciences you don't get to make this silly declaration about science's end. according to you, since we didn't know about airplanes or telephones or computers we couldn't have made them.
it's again the opposite - science explores areas to expand its knowledge& new technologies often results.
science makes assumptions aka hypotheses, but that's only the beginning - it then performs experiments or looks for physical evidence to support or deny te hypothesis. UFOlogy has yet to creep up to this basic procedure
-
This is a photo of a box. As a layman's experiment tell me what I photographed.
What can science tell me about this box.
What can the scientific minds here tell me about the box I photographed.
I photographed it, therefore its on earth and contains oxygen, Co2 and Nitrogen.
I'm curious and have a purpose in this experiment. Nothing petty. I just want to see what you think.
not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box.
even the photographer's claim 'it's on earth' cannot be verified. it could also be ai generated
Precisely and this is unfortunately where we are with UAP.
Debunkers don't need to ask for more data.
Skeptics don't tend to ask for more data.
Science can't be given more data which it needs other than this photo which as you say shows nothing.
But you've excluded me from the equation.
...
Science would love to be given the freedom to examine UAP data. But it has to wait for it like
all the rest of us.
of COURSE science (and skeptics) need more data, as you admit in the final sentence, hence their tentative conclusion:
whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent. - Wittgenstein
simply put, you don't matter - you asked about the photo and the replies emphasized the need for more data, not your CV - examining you would be the argument from authority --"they're a military genius, therefore they must be right" - look where that's gotten us in the past - lies about CIA intervention in Iran in the 5s, and a host of other countries, the bay of pigs, the cuban missile crisis and most damaging the weapons of mass destruction in Iraq
Right but we can't get to the point where science can have more data because:
There is no reliable repository therefore it all gets dumped on twitter, Facebook and utube. Once there it gets picked over by the Mick Wests and his ilk and tossed aside.
I wasn't offering a CV (slight exaggeration and neither was it about me but about witnesses)
and we don't need to place witness statements to the exclusion of all else, wr need to also have witness statements regardless of social position. All data is valid. Or none of it is. Witnesses give context. Witnesses correct assumptions. Witnesses may but only, may, be unreliable. Not all.
so your 'photo query' was disingenuous - you just used a pointless example to regurgitate your uninformed views of how science works and slime critics once more .
All data is valid. Or none of it is. - nonsense - are we supposed to include flat earthers, birthers, election or holocaust deniers in our considerations?
Your way is no longer working in this circumstance. If science knew anything, science would have built it already. It hasn't that we are aware of so any assumption it has is incorrect because that's all it is, is an assumption.
once again you expose your lack of understanding - it's not my way, altho my background in the sciences you don't get to make this silly declaration about science's end. according to you, since we didn't know about airplanes or telephones or computers we couldn't have made them.
it's again the opposite - science explores areas to expand its knowledge& new technologies often results.
science makes assumptions aka hypotheses, but that's only the beginning - it then performs experiments or looks for physical evidence to support or deny te hypothesis. UFOlogy has yet to creep up to this basic procedure
Hahahahaha what is a "birther". I'm not going to even look that up it sounds annoying.
No the box experiment wasn't disingenuous at all and if you feel it was then you do 🤷 oh well. It showed exactly what the situation is. You a staunch stickler explained perfectly. Big Toe did as well .
I haven't 'exposed' anything. This context comes from fighting or war where someone exposes a weakness. Lack of knowledge of a process isn't a weakness it is just a lack of knowledge. I don't have that knowledge but is that a weakness in your eyes? Odd. But of course irrelevant. It's knowledge I don't need. Oh to apparently hold credibility with you and your 'liker' yes but not in the real world. And by real world I mean what is happening now.
"science makes assumptions aka hypotheses, but that's only the beginning - it then performs experiments or looks for physical evidence to support or deny te hypothesis"
"not much, too little evidence among unverifiable claims - it's a brown, blurry image and with no scale it's just a series of unfocused, brownish polygons. without photos from several sides, can't even verify the claim it's a box."
How did that work out for you? What you showed admirably was what happens to most data given to the public no matter its source. "Meh" lol. I'm not mocking you. I've had you prove an 'assumption'. Thank you. You don't have to believe it or agree - its what happened.
The data won't even get to the second stage of your scientific process model because "meh" is what happens world wide online in the public eye. Not many scientists want to risk their position fighting against such assumptions by the masses of debunkers and skeptics and their following who to be fare sometimes show some plausable explanations or theories.
-
While Mick West is still defending his balloon theory for the Jellyfish footage Dave Falch has stepped in to give his analysis.
Conclusion: Black DARPA craft undergoing testing and footage leaked.
https://youtu.be/S9qbB23BuhI?feature=shared
He does however explain what it's unlikely to be. Spoiler: No balloon animals
When you post stupid videos and allegations like this, you make yourself look like a fool. Giant jellyfish UFO. Looks like a deflated weather balloon, drifting in the wind. Stick to serious questions like Dod, disclosure and the oversite committee, not foolish sci-fi click bait.
-
While Mick West is still defending his balloon theory for the Jellyfish footage Dave Falch has stepped in to give his analysis.
Conclusion: Black DARPA craft undergoing testing and footage leaked.
https://youtu.be/S9qbB23BuhI?feature=shared
He does however explain what it's unlikely to be. Spoiler: No balloon animals
When you post stupid videos and allegations like this, you make yourself look like a fool. Giant jellyfish UFO. Looks like a deflated weather balloon, drifting in the wind. Stick to serious questions like Dod, disclosure and the oversite committee, not foolish sci-fi click bait.
Do you understand the use of the word allegation? The above statement points to no but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt so you'll have to elaborate. Mick West has claimed exactly what I wrote. That's not an allegation that's a fact. If you believe with your expertise that it is a deflated weather balloon please show this is so. It looks nothing like a deflated weather balloon to me but as it is as yet an unknown we can't say for sure but please show the evidence for your assertions I'll pass them on.
Fact - https://youtu.be/ojotsKjshHc?feature=shared
And he makes a glaring error. Also fact.
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Hahahahaha what is a "birther". I'm not going to even look that up it sounds annoying.
No the box experiment wasn't disingenuous at all and if you feel it was then you do 🤷 oh well. It showed exactly what the situation is. You a staunch stickler explained perfectly. Big Toe did as well .
...
thanks for a reasoned reply that addressed previous posts - as someone here would say "you must be inebriated"?!?
if you don't know what a birther is, you're lucky - it's a US political meme
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Hahahahaha what is a "birther". I'm not going to even look that up it sounds annoying.
No the box experiment wasn't disingenuous at all and if you feel it was then you do 🤷 oh well. It showed exactly what the situation is. You a staunch stickler explained perfectly. Big Toe did as well .
...
thanks for a reasoned reply that addressed previous posts - as someone here would say "you must be inebriated"?!?
if you don't know what a birther is, you're lucky - it's a US political meme
Thank you also. I still don't know what a birther is and it's sounds like I should be grateful lol.
Edit: I cracked and looked it up. Good grief 😔 I do not subscribe to birtherism.
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Pentagon report warns America at risk, unprepared for alien invasion
https://insiderpaper.com/pentagon-report-warns-america-at-risk-unprepared-for-alien-invasion/ (https://insiderpaper.com/pentagon-report-warns-america-at-risk-unprepared-for-alien-invasion/)
I just have one question. Has everyone in the USA gone crazy or not? A nuclear bomb from russia, China or North Korea will arrive faster than some non-existent UFOs will attack.
;D ;D ;D ;D
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While Mick West is still defending his balloon theory for the Jellyfish footage Dave Falch has stepped in to give his analysis.
Conclusion: Black DARPA craft undergoing testing and footage leaked.
https://youtu.be/S9qbB23BuhI?feature=shared
He does however explain what it's unlikely to be. Spoiler: No balloon animals
When you post stupid videos and allegations like this, you make yourself look like a fool. Giant jellyfish UFO. Looks like a deflated weather balloon, drifting in the wind. Stick to serious questions like Dod, disclosure and the oversite committee, not foolish sci-fi click bait.
It's just a weather balloon. UFO nuts make the ordinary into a mystery. They lack crit·i·cal think·ing of any kind.
Lowls, prove it's not just a weather balloon.
-
Pentagon report warns America at risk, unprepared for alien invasion
https://insiderpaper.com/pentagon-report-warns-america-at-risk-unprepared-for-alien-invasion/ (https://insiderpaper.com/pentagon-report-warns-america-at-risk-unprepared-for-alien-invasion/)
I just have one question. Has everyone in the USA gone crazy or not? A nuclear bomb from russia, China or North Korea will arrive faster than some non-existent UFOs will attack.
;D ;D ;D ;D
It states (from their own source linked above) that they arent doing enough to monitor them. Not - we are sure they don't exist nor that we aren't prepared for attack. If you're sure they don't exist you need to get onto the government and tell them to call it all off lol. They however aren't so sure.
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While Mick West is still defending his balloon theory for the Jellyfish footage Dave Falch has stepped in to give his analysis.
Conclusion: Black DARPA craft undergoing testing and footage leaked.
https://youtu.be/S9qbB23BuhI?feature=shared
He does however explain what it's unlikely to be. Spoiler: No balloon animals
When you post stupid videos and allegations like this, you make yourself look like a fool. Giant jellyfish UFO. Looks like a deflated weather balloon, drifting in the wind. Stick to serious questions like Dod, disclosure and the oversite committee, not foolish sci-fi click bait.
It's just a weather balloon. UFO nuts make the ordinary into a mystery. They lack crit·i·cal think·ing of any kind.
Lowls, prove it's not just a weather balloon.
As I'm often reminded - you made the claim - have at it 😊
UFO nuts he said in a sweeping statement. And does sir or madame or they, have a feral belief system that you cling rigidly to. Licking some priests hand every weekend and choking back some hearty backswill filled goblet contents to rinse your chakras before returning to Satan's work or .... lol
I mean if you are a happy clapping, Bible thumping, grovelling God botherer then I can understand if these false idols doth offend. But if you are just being lazy and adding your inconsequential 'meh' to the masses then job done you've 'meh'ed' successfully and can sleep soundly that you've told that loser on that thread that barely anyone will see. I mean I'd kind of like a bit more ... detail
shall we say that we can't get our teeth stuck into but if that's what you came here to do, you've done it well and message recieved. It's bunkum and you know it.
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brutal but is he wrong
https://x.com/jamescfox/status/1752188569706242514?s=20
Ah the link has been taken down. Professor Garry Nolan making his feelings about Neil D Tyson's opinions on UAP known. If I can find a saved copy I'll place link here.
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Sean Kirkpatrick who is supposed to be very careful about what he reveals regarding sensors and methods and means - has been on a whirlwind media tour and he has one thing to say- we found nothing. He spent a whole year looking and found nothing.
The sponsor for some of it - Northrup and Lockhead Martin - you couldn't make it up.
"Sean Kirptarick is a liar and there are FOIAble emails between Kirpatrick and various people, that exist. I know because I've seen them"
https://youtu.be/mKKoDextN_I?feature=shared (https://youtu.be/mKKoDextN_I?feature=shared)
"Dr Kirkpatrick even suggested tic tac-shaped objects, such as the one which out-manoeuvred a top gun pilot in 2004 could be explained by a balloon produced in Florida."
Kirkpatrick "discouraged congressional members from investigating UAP and claimed investigations informed by whistleblowers were based on a ‘whirlwind of tall tales, fabrication and secondhand or thirdhand retellings of the same’.
https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/the-empire-strikes-back (https://www.liberationtimes.com/home/the-empire-strikes-back)
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The Hill interviews Mick West Vs The government
https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/559433-the-worlds-most-passionate-ufo-skeptic-versus-the-government/#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17074431335338&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fopinion%2Fnational-security%2F559433-the-worlds-most-passionate-ufo-skeptic-versus-the-government%2F (https://thehill.com/opinion/national-security/559433-the-worlds-most-passionate-ufo-skeptic-versus-the-government/#amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&aoh=17074431335338&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&share=https%3A%2F%2Fthehill.com%2Fopinion%2Fnational-security%2F559433-the-worlds-most-passionate-ufo-skeptic-versus-the-government%2F)
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What is going on? This is Mike Burlison 6 months ago after attending the UAP hearings
https://youtu.be/SQxTnz4dQVM?feature=shared
This is now. A quick snapshot interview with Matt Laslo
“I'm working on it. Right now, I've got something up my sleeve. I don't want to talk. I’ll keep you informed, because I got a big thing that I'm gonna announce,”
@RepEricBurlison
tells Ask a Pol.
"UAP related?”
“Yes.”
He was skeptical and facially he appeared to find the whole thing a bit silly. What has changed his mind and what is he going to announce? Kirkpatrick has literally destroyed the notion that UAPs even exist. He should know right?
-
Already 27 pages in the topic. Can anyone answer whether UFOs and aliens exist or not?
;D ;D ;D
-
Already 27 pages in the topic. Can anyone answer whether UFOs and aliens exist or not?
;D ;D ;D
Well don't forget that the original intention of this subject wasn't to discuss that it was a question of had anyone captured a UAP in their photography. Bit of fun. Coincidentally David Grusch arrived and the scenario changed radically.
UAP - yes they do no idea what they are
Aliens - yes they do.
Are they here - jury is out at present.
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Republican Ralph Norman exits a SCIF yesturday and is interviewed by Matt Laslo after speaking to news nation. They had interviewed Luis Elizondo ex head of AATIP who investigated UAP for the government. He brought two pilots and a scientist with him and showed them why they should be concerned.
Here is Ralph Norman's statement audio file. Click link half way down page to listen.
https://open.substack.com/pub/askapol/p/sneak-peek-rep-norman-says-lue-elizondo?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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Disclosure has been dealt a blow by ex head of AARO in his leaving report for historic reporting on UAP - Sean Kirkpatrick states in summery " its all fake and misidetification brewed up by a select few to hoodwink the government"
and the response https://www.youtube.com/live/Vw_uTkRe8rI?feature=shared (https://www.youtube.com/live/Vw_uTkRe8rI?feature=shared)
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Disclosure has been dealt a blow by ex head of AARO in his leaving report for historic reporting on UAP - Sean Kirkpatrick states in summery " its all fake and misidetification brewed up by a select few to hoodwink the government"
and the response https://www.youtube.com/live/Vw_uTkRe8rI?feature=shared (https://www.youtube.com/live/Vw_uTkRe8rI?feature=shared)
the report itself is much more measured though surely a disappointment to true believers - it said there was no evidence of extraterrestrials nor of crashed ships and that testimony from 'experts 'lacked actual corroboration from physical evidence or others and was often hearsay or worse ("a friend of a friend knows somebody...") they also discuss interpretation of various recording purporting to defynphysics and show errors in their analysis.
conclusion - still no there there.
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Disclosure has been dealt a blow by ex head of AARO in his leaving report for historic reporting on UAP - Sean Kirkpatrick states in summery " its all fake and misidetification brewed up by a select few to hoodwink the government"
and the response https://www.youtube.com/live/Vw_uTkRe8rI?feature=shared (https://www.youtube.com/live/Vw_uTkRe8rI?feature=shared)
the report itself is much more measured though surely a disappointment to true believers - it said there was no evidence of extraterrestrials nor of crashed ships and that testimony from 'experts 'lacked actual corroboration from physical evidence or others and was often hearsay or worse ("a friend of a friend knows somebody...") they also discuss interpretation of various recording purporting to defynphysics and show errors in their analysis.
conclusion - still no there there.
agreed. But Kirkpatrick is gonna go to jail if he isn't careful. Congress is going to go after him.
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coming soon Dr Garry Nolan on ND Tyson
https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangeEarth/comments/1aepe4j/james_fox_shares_an_exclusive_clip_from_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button (https://www.reddit.com/r/StrangeEarth/comments/1aepe4j/james_fox_shares_an_exclusive_clip_from_his/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
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Here are the facts.
A newly published government report states that not only is there no proof of any secret effort by the U.S. government to cooperate with aliens or research alien technology, there is no proof that UFO sightings are the result of extraterrestrial visitations to Earth. The “Report on the Historical Record of U.S. Government Involvement with Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP),” written by the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, denies all claims regarding the U.S. government and UFOs, stating that they are the result of decreased public trust in government, the prevalence of UFOs in public culture, and unnecessary government secrecy.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a60165911/pentagon-ufo-report/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a60165911/pentagon-ufo-report/)
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Here are the facts.
A newly published government report states that not only is there no proof of any secret effort by the U.S. government to cooperate with aliens or research alien technology, there is no proof that UFO sightings are the result of extraterrestrial visitations to Earth. The “Report on the Historical Record of U.S. Government Involvement with Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP),” written by the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, denies all claims regarding the U.S. government and UFOs, stating that they are the result of decreased public trust in government, the prevalence of UFOs in public culture, and unnecessary government secrecy.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a60165911/pentagon-ufo-report/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a60165911/pentagon-ufo-report/)
Incorrect. The report was written by Sean Kirkpatrick and Sean Kirpatrick has lied demonstrably. He states that the narrative has been led by a core of ufologists who have deveieved Congress for its own ends.
This is not true. Danny Sheehan represents 45 whistle blowers who contacted AARO and gave evidence under extremely unscientific and non-evidentiary conditions (phone interview with no recordings made of the interview just notes taken by a interviewer). These interviews produced no further investigation of the details given. This has also been revealed. Sean Kirkpatrick called some organisations within the ICIG framework and asked if they had anything and he was told no. This concluded his investigations.
To post what you have and hold it up as evidence is frankly hilarious, disingenuous, and patently wrong. It is widely known across the ICIG, Congress and the wider inteliegence world and ufology that the report is only good for wiping your arse with.
That's not a hope, a belief, a claim or anything else. It is factually, provably incorrect containing demonstrably false statements. It was late, it was rushed and it has a get out of jail free clause that states "if any of the information contained here is incorrect we reserve the right to amend it at a future date".
Claims that UFOlogists attempted to break into Kirkpatricks home and caused great alarm have been debunked and were fact checked to show that 'a' ufologist knocked at his door to speak to him.
You should research more and stop posting biased, contextually incorrect statements which are anything but "the facts"
You can claim otherwise if you wish and call Danny Sheehan a liar publicly ...
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Here are the facts.
A newly published government report states that not only is there no proof of any secret effort by the U.S. government to cooperate with aliens or research alien technology, there is no proof that UFO sightings are the result of extraterrestrial visitations to Earth. The “Report on the Historical Record of U.S. Government Involvement with Unidentified Anomalous Phenomena (UAP),” written by the All-Domain Anomaly Resolution Office, denies all claims regarding the U.S. government and UFOs, stating that they are the result of decreased public trust in government, the prevalence of UFOs in public culture, and unnecessary government secrecy.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a60165911/pentagon-ufo-report/ (https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/aviation/a60165911/pentagon-ufo-report/)
But what about all these stories about how there are flying saucers and dead humanoids in the USA?
So, this means there is only one conclusion, UFOs and aliens do not exist and they have never arrived on planet earth.
;D ;D ;D
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Already 27 pages in the topic. Can anyone answer whether UFOs and aliens exist or not?
;D ;D ;D
In Search Of
The Holy Grail
the Loch Ness Monster
Armageddon predictions
Mermaids
Fairies
Ghosts
Big Foot
El Chupacabra
A race of giants
Aliens visit in UFOs
Or do something else useful with your time. Anybody who disagrees is a liar or a government agent. UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
That's a politically correct term for non-gender, non-racial, unidentified objects, which are as a collection, "they". Otherwise the answer might be, people see something but IT isn't aliens? ;)
Already 27 pages in the topic. Can anyone answer whether UFOs and aliens exist or not?
;D ;D ;D
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4129Qxg/forbidden-id-thread.jpg)
UFOs exist, whatever name anyone wants to call them. Just by definition, if something flies and it's unidentified, it's a UFO. The whole leap of faith is, that somehow we are being visited by aliens, just because something is unexplained. They are not universally one in the same, except for the "believers". Aliens might exist, but there has been no proof yet. The other side of that assumption is, The universe seems pretty large and endless, we might guess, logically and even using math, that other life forms, and maybe other intelligent beings, could possibly exist. No proof that they are visiting us.
Well don't forget that the original intention of this subject wasn't to discuss that it was a question of had anyone captured a UAP in their photography. Bit of fun.
Oh this was supposed to be fun? OK, here's my UFO photograph, and it's real, so there's your proof.
(https://i.postimg.cc/2jtqbbjv/flying-cheeseburger-square-500.jpg)
This is more real than Billy Meier. ;D
Early UFO stories boosted newspaper and magazine sales, mystery strange tales book sales, and today they are reliable clickbait online.
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That's a politically correct term for non-gender, non-racial, unidentified objects, which are as a collection, "they". Otherwise the answer might be, people see something but IT isn't aliens? ;)
I thought this topic was about aliens. The press constantly wrote that there were dead humanoids and flying saucers at US military bases. In this thread, as I understand it, this was discussed. So I’m wondering if humanoids and flying saucer are available or not? ;D
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
That's a politically correct term for non-gender, non-racial, unidentified objects, which are as a collection, "they". Otherwise the answer might be, people see something but IT isn't aliens? ;)
wow
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Already 27 pages in the topic. Can anyone answer whether UFOs and aliens exist or not?
;D ;D ;D
In Search Of
The Holy Grail
the Loch Ness Monster
Armageddon predictions
Mermaids
Fairies
Ghosts
Big Foot
El Chupacabra
A race of giants
Aliens visit in UFOs
Or do something else useful with your time. Anybody who disagrees is a liar or a government agent. UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Like posting this eh 👆 and ... "they just aren't aliens" ... phew finally someone who's called it. Ok I cannot wait to see your evidence and I'll pass that on to the great and the good so this can all stop. Do you want to post it all here or you gonna drop a utube?
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
That's a politically correct term for non-gender, non-racial, unidentified objects, which are as a collection, "they". Otherwise the answer might be, people see something but IT isn't aliens? ;)
wow
It would take a sense of humor to understand the politically correct language and current gender terms police. We aren't males or female anymore, the PC crowd wants us to be called "They". And since we don't know what gender aliens might be, we'd probably want to call them "It" instead of they? Or maybe that's rude and the unknown life forms are they and not it? :o
First problem is, no one has proof that "they" exist, or that "they" are visiting us, lights in the sky are not they, lights are an IT. As in It Came From Outer Space
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.fU80J-Wa67pqJ_BVeUx5GgHaLO?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain)
Beware of the giant eyeball alien in the mine.
Anyone think any of this sounds familiar and like modern alien stories? Crashed ship, in the desert, 1953, Arizona, abductions... "Putnam finally discovers the spaceship and learns from the alien leader that they crashed on Earth by accident; the aliens appear benign and only plan to stay on Earth just long enough to repair their damaged craft and then continue on their voyage. The aliens' real appearance, when finally revealed to Putnam, is entirely non-human: they are large, single-eyed, almost jellyfish-like beings that seem to glide across the ground, leaving a glistening trail that soon vanishes. They are also able to shape shift into human form in order to appear human and move around Sand Rock, unobserved, in order to collect their much needed repair materials. To do this, they copy the human forms of the local townspeople that they have abducted. In doing so, however, they fail to reproduce the townspeople's exact personalities, leading to suspicion and eventually to the deaths of two of the aliens. "
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
I'm not sure now without looking but prior to the end of the year there were riots in Russia protesting the war, riots on France protesting the proposed increase in state pension age pushing many out of its payment window and into retired poverty, riots in Greece, riots in Spain and Germany and Turkey. There have been protests in Hong Kong too. So there are a LOT of public outcomes to the feral leaderships dragging each country into poverty, discrimination, removal of freedoms, heavy taxation and wars. And yet major news channels report on Princess Kate and Harry and Megan. It is shambolic bought and paid for radio silence across news platforms. I've only followed these things via other social media. But we are on the brink of something quite significantly bad and these feral governments are being aged out by technology and social media and the speed with which information is making it out there.
Is this process being used to hush up UAP - categorically fact. Will there be a so called catastrophic disclosure. I hope so but I am surprised it hasn't happened already and some of the main players who would are saying things like "yeah but could the human race cope with such a disclosure given what could be revealed as the outcome" and "what if by revealing what is happening it pushes forward a schedule that we are just not ready to defend ourselves against but by revealing it, it forces that schedule to rapidly speed up"
Clearly those people know or have been told much more detail and are backing off. So it is weirdly hanging there ready to pop but it hasn't. And that doesn't seem very good.
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
That's a politically correct term for non-gender, non-racial, unidentified objects, which are as a collection, "they". Otherwise the answer might be, people see something but IT isn't aliens? ;)
wow
It would take a sense of humor to understand the politically correct language and current gender terms police. We aren't males or female anymore, the PC crowd wants us to be called "They". And since we don't know what gender aliens might be, we'd probably want to call them "It" instead of they? Or maybe that's rude and the unknown life forms are they and not it? :o
First problem is, no one has proof that "they" exist, or that "they" are visiting us, lights in the sky are not they, lights are an IT. As in It Came From Outer Space
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.fU80J-Wa67pqJ_BVeUx5GgHaLO?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain)
Beware of the giant eyeball alien in the mine.
Anyone think any of this sounds familiar and like modern alien stories? Crashed ship, in the desert, 1953, Arizona, abductions... "Putnam finally discovers the spaceship and learns from the alien leader that they crashed on Earth by accident; the aliens appear benign and only plan to stay on Earth just long enough to repair their damaged craft and then continue on their voyage. The aliens' real appearance, when finally revealed to Putnam, is entirely non-human: they are large, single-eyed, almost jellyfish-like beings that seem to glide across the ground, leaving a glistening trail that soon vanishes. They are also able to shape shift into human form in order to appear human and move around Sand Rock, unobserved, in order to collect their much needed repair materials. To do this, they copy the human forms of the local townspeople that they have abducted. In doing so, however, they fail to reproduce the townspeople's exact personalities, leading to suspicion and eventually to the deaths of two of the aliens. "
There was no intention on the part of the poster to imply a gender issue.
No you took it upon your self to turn it into that because of "the politically correct language and current gender terms police. We aren't males or female anymore, the PC crowd wants us to be called "They".
You bigot, nothing of the sort is happening in the slightest. A political movement decided to neutralise pronouns to strengthen weakening equality based on gender and gender pay gaps, rights a freedoms on a global setting.
This then seeped over and into other areas of society and was taken up by various minority groups and lumped in the LGBTQ+ blah blah gang as a way of thwarting discriminatory legislation.
A noble cause given that it is illegal to be LGBT in 64 UN member States. In Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, the death penalty is imposed across the county.
The latest was Uganda last year who cried in the streets with joy that a god that was forced violently on them by missionaries was now saved by this new law.
Whilst attempting to enforce the pronoun "they" is imo a nonsese when speaking to an individual I do respect their right to identify as non gender if they wish. And contrary to the popular trope that there are only two genders there are three and has been for as long as there have been humans and is increasing. Male, female and intersex formally hermaphrodite. Which is often quoted as rare but is anything but. It is however a minority classification and isn't a fixed percentage yet they do carry both reproductive organs, internally and externally to varying degrees as well as variations from the XX and XY formats as well as wide ranging hormone levels as do we all.
Finally this was a thread about UAP and it should NOT stray from that and into your personal feelings regarding that or for that matter any minority group in a derogatory tone again, mocking or otherwise.
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Space aliens are a minority group? Pete was right, you have no sense of humor and can't recognize a joke.
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
i agree - every day headlines should announce "still no evidence of any extraterrestrial beings or ET wreckage here on earth"
and TV 'news' stations dont report on many significant topics every day. you need to find real sources of news -- eg, the NYTimes and others report on Ukraine last every day - the facts are there if you want them
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
Sorry for making some fun and answering. I see that I set off lowls into a raging rampage of some sort of political rant. Sure thing, aliens are they, not IT, because we need to have feelings for them. ::)
A political movement decided to neutralise pronouns to strengthen weakening equality based on gender and gender pay gaps, rights a freedoms on a global setting.
Finally this was a thread about UAP and it should NOT stray from that and into your personal feelings regarding that or for that matter any minority group in a derogatory tone again, mocking or otherwise.
Oh Wow! Yes your almighty highness. I beg you forgiveness for making a joke about the question of aliens and their gender or what to call them. Take your meds and a few deep breaths. Count to ten... please, don't explode.
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Space aliens are a minority group? Pete was right, you have no sense of humor and can't recognize a joke.
it is illegal to be LGBT in 64 UN member States. In Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, the death penalty is imposed across the county.
That's a point of humour for you? Not something youde say to my face.
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UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
Sorry for making some fun and answering. I see that I set off lowls into a raging rampage of some sort of political rant. Sure thing, aliens are they, not IT, because we need to have feelings for them. ::)
A political movement decided to neutralise pronouns to strengthen weakening equality based on gender and gender pay gaps, rights a freedoms on a global setting.
Finally this was a thread about UAP and it should NOT stray from that and into your personal feelings regarding that or for that matter any minority group in a derogatory tone again, mocking or otherwise.
Oh Wow! Yes your almighty highness. I beg you forgiveness for making a joke about the question of aliens and their gender or what to call them. Take your meds and a few deep breaths. Count to ten... please, don't explode.
oh ... sniffle ... please stop ... whimper. Memory lapse?
-
UAP are real, they just aren't aliens.
Who are they? ;D ;D ;D
That's a politically correct term for non-gender, non-racial, unidentified objects, which are as a collection, "they". Otherwise the answer might be, people see something but IT isn't aliens? ;)
wow
It would take a sense of humor to understand the politically correct language and current gender terms police. We aren't males or female anymore, the PC crowd wants us to be called "They". And since we don't know what gender aliens might be, we'd probably want to call them "It" instead of they? Or maybe that's rude and the unknown life forms are they and not it? :o
First problem is, no one has proof that "they" exist, or that "they" are visiting us, lights in the sky are not they, lights are an IT. As in It Came From Outer Space
(https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.fU80J-Wa67pqJ_BVeUx5GgHaLO?rs=1&pid=ImgDetMain)
Beware of the giant eyeball alien in the mine.
Anyone think any of this sounds familiar and like modern alien stories? Crashed ship, in the desert, 1953, Arizona, abductions... "Putnam finally discovers the spaceship and learns from the alien leader that they crashed on Earth by accident; the aliens appear benign and only plan to stay on Earth just long enough to repair their damaged craft and then continue on their voyage. The aliens' real appearance, when finally revealed to Putnam, is entirely non-human: they are large, single-eyed, almost jellyfish-like beings that seem to glide across the ground, leaving a glistening trail that soon vanishes. They are also able to shape shift into human form in order to appear human and move around Sand Rock, unobserved, in order to collect their much needed repair materials. To do this, they copy the human forms of the local townspeople that they have abducted. In doing so, however, they fail to reproduce the townspeople's exact personalities, leading to suspicion and eventually to the deaths of two of the aliens. "
There was no intention on the part of the poster to imply a gender issue.
No you took it upon your self to turn it into that because of "the politically correct language and current gender terms police. We aren't males or female anymore, the PC crowd wants us to be called "They".
You bigot, nothing of the sort is happening in the slightest. A political movement decided to neutralise pronouns to strengthen weakening equality based on gender and gender pay gaps, rights a freedoms on a global setting.
This then seeped over and into other areas of society and was taken up by various minority groups and lumped in the LGBTQ+ blah blah gang as a way of thwarting discriminatory legislation.
A noble cause given that it is illegal to be LGBT in 64 UN member States. In Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia and Yemen, the death penalty is imposed across the county.
The latest was Uganda last year who cried in the streets with joy that a god that was forced violently on them by missionaries was now saved by this new law.
Whilst attempting to enforce the pronoun "they" is imo a nonsese when speaking to an individual I do respect their right to identify as non gender if they wish. And contrary to the popular trope that there are only two genders there are three and has been for as long as there have been humans and is increasing. Male, female and intersex formally hermaphrodite. Which is often quoted as rare but is anything but. It is however a minority classification and isn't a fixed percentage yet they do carry both reproductive organs, internally and externally to varying degrees as well as variations from the XX and XY formats as well as wide ranging hormone levels as do we all.
Finally this was a thread about UAP and it should NOT stray from that and into your personal feelings regarding that or for that matter any minority group in a derogatory tone again, mocking or otherwise.
Nice rant @lowls, what does any of that have to do with aliens from space? Insults, indignation and conspiracy theory, the signatures of the politics of contempt. I didn't expect you to be a follower of the Donlad Trump school of debate.
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oh ... sniffle ... please stop ... whimper. Memory lapse?
In an open forum, we should always have the choice to agree or disagree with whatever views, others may have. Also, we should always protect someone else’s freedom to do the same, whether it be in our favor or not.
Insults, indignation and conspiracy theory, the signatures of the politics of contempt. I didn't expect you to be a follow of the Donald Trump school.
Memory? Sure thing, I remember:
Peter has clearly found his meds 😳 ... pssst Lower the dose.
Where do you start. The Bermuda triangle is a fact. The cause isn't but I subscribe to the underground or underwater mass gas releases experiments that were done which can be found on utube. ... It doesn't explain the various planes that went missing due to instrument failure specifically the compass but many things can cause a compass to fail.
... which brings us to the ignorance of the skeptics self proclaimed or otherwise. I did state at the beginning of the thread ... don't bother. Your ridiculous cliche of "the burden of proof falls to the ones making claims" is the usual trollop trotted out by lazy and idle people. You are the one hurling claims lol. Crack on Peter please prove your claim. You can't though can you because skeptics can never provide any meat to their bone. Its all "nonsense" they cry without any research or any proof what so ever. Lazy. And they never attempt to investigate themselves. They barely bother to research what's out there. One thing is a fact. No one employs skeptics when embarking on a venture do they. Pay them good money to work against you lol.
Many of those interviews are available on utube. Of course all that research had to be done for free according to Peter. Because if you take that research and put the salient points in a book jacket and sell it, it automatically makes you a fraud. Oops. and the lectures these fraudsters attend are also scambait.
Peter is giving away his stock photos for free everyone btw. Just dm him that's right isn't it Peter lol.
Shame you ranted off Peter. Why is anyone's guess but that's you isn't it. What rank did you get to Pete ... I'm curious...
So kind, fair, understanding, open minded and polite. Yeah I remember.
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
Less than 0.1% of the population, or 1 in 1,000 people, has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. We read about the people with a psychological disorder and the other alphabet people, making the news as they force their personal choice issues on us. You brought up something more important to the world, where an entire country is being taken over, at war, people dying. Genocide, civilians murdered, the Russian government lying on a daily basis. UFOs and aliens are not news or important, they are just sensational stories to sell tabloids or fantasy books.
Our gender is not debatable, labeled as assigned at birth, it is our genetics. We don't get to pick, based on some emotion or psychological disorder. People being murdered in the Ukraine is more important. If you don't see enough honest news, you aren't looking in the right places. If you are depending on news that comes out of Russia, of course it's all lies and coverup. The rest of the world is showing us the truth.
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
Less than 0.1% of the population, or 1 in 1,000 people, has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. We read about the people with a psychological disorder and the other alphabet people, making the news as they force their personal choice issues on us. You brought up something more important to the world, where an entire country is being taken over, at war, people dying. Genocide, civilians murdered, the Russian government lying on a daily basis. UFOs and aliens are not news or important, they are just sensational stories to sell tabloids or fantasy books.
Our gender is not debatable, labeled as assigned at birth, it is our genetics. We don't get to pick, based on some emotion or psychological disorder. People being murdered in the Ukraine is more important. If you don't see enough honest news, you aren't looking in the right places. If you are depending on news that comes out of Russia, of course it's all lies and coverup. The rest of the world is showing us the truth.
The moderators on this forum chose to remove certain posts and leave the slur "Alphabet People".
I will not debate this subject further.
However I also cannot prevent others doing so with a moderation team who feel it appropriate to allow such slurs to remain. Of course that means your unpleasant statements are in the public domain where your customers exist who will of course contain "Alphabet People". Good luck with that.
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
Less than 0.1% of the population, or 1 in 1,000 people, has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. We read about the people with a psychological disorder and the other alphabet people, making the news as they force their personal choice issues on us. You brought up something more important to the world, where an entire country is being taken over, at war, people dying. Genocide, civilians murdered, the Russian government lying on a daily basis. UFOs and aliens are not news or important, they are just sensational stories to sell tabloids or fantasy books.
Our gender is not debatable, labeled as assigned at birth, it is our genetics. We don't get to pick, based on some emotion or psychological disorder. People being murdered in the Ukraine is more important. If you don't see enough honest news, you aren't looking in the right places. If you are depending on news that comes out of Russia, of course it's all lies and coverup. The rest of the world is showing us the truth.
The moderators on this forum chose to remove certain posts and leave the slur "Alphabet People".
I will not debate this subject further.
However I also cannot prevent others doing so with a moderation team who feel it appropriate to allow such slurs to remain. Of course that means your unpleasant statements are in the public domain where your customers exist who will of course contain "Alphabet People". Good luck with that.
You have no problem calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist and a bigot. When someone disagrees you want them censored, to block their free opinion and thoughts. When anyone disagrees with your nutty UFO and alien crap, you come out slinging personal attacks and ignoring the facts that don't fit. Maybe it's you who should be blocked because of your unpleasant statements. You don't get to trample my thought and free speech with your close minded woke agenda, that doesn't allow anyone saying any different than what you believe.
The moderation team lets you get away with lies and personal attacks, why should they be censoring a word or phrase that defines the many fringe groups?
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
Less than 0.1% of the population, or 1 in 1,000 people, has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. We read about the people with a psychological disorder and the other alphabet people, making the news as they force their personal choice issues on us. You brought up something more important to the world, where an entire country is being taken over, at war, people dying. Genocide, civilians murdered, the Russian government lying on a daily basis. UFOs and aliens are not news or important, they are just sensational stories to sell tabloids or fantasy books.
Our gender is not debatable, labeled as assigned at birth, it is our genetics. We don't get to pick, based on some emotion or psychological disorder. People being murdered in the Ukraine is more important. If you don't see enough honest news, you aren't looking in the right places. If you are depending on news that comes out of Russia, of course it's all lies and coverup. The rest of the world is showing us the truth.
The moderators on this forum chose to remove certain posts and leave the slur "Alphabet People".
I will not debate this subject further.
However I also cannot prevent others doing so with a moderation team who feel it appropriate to allow such slurs to remain. Of course that means your unpleasant statements are in the public domain where your customers exist who will of course contain "Alphabet People". Good luck with that.
You have no problem calling anyone who disagrees with you a racist and a bigot. When someone disagrees you want them censored, to block their free opinion and thoughts. When anyone disagrees with your nutty UFO and alien crap, you come out slinging personal attacks and ignoring the facts that don't fit. Maybe it's you who should be blocked because of your unpleasant statements. You don't get to trample my thought and free speech with your close minded woke agenda, that doesn't allow anyone saying any different than what you believe.
The moderation team lets you get away with lies and personal attacks, why should they be censoring a word or phrase that defines the many fringe groups?
quoted.
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Last post to bring this to a close.
Blackvault is a repository for freedom requests and responses. Sean Kirkpatrick it transpires used signal (like whatsapp) for speaking about David Grusch to Chris Mellon. Soon Sean did so in an official capacity so the signal messages have been logged and can be FOIR'd
But he has doubled down and has been running around basically saying things that aren't accurate. So Chris Mellon was quite surprised that his conversation was recorded by Kirkpatrick and came out via twitter.
Clearly Chris Mellon is done with the secrecy any more so decided to post his own signal messages. And it's done. So the purpose of this thread has been achieved. Enjoy.
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I think society is not being told a lot. I see this in the example of Ukraine. There is zero information about Ukraine on US TV channels. But in Ukraine there is war and genocide. The same can be said about UFOs and aliens. The media of mass disinformation simply do not talk about it and everyone thinks that it means none of this. It's simple. This is a massive deception of the masses through the media.
Less than 0.1% of the population, or 1 in 1,000 people, has been diagnosed with gender dysphoria. We read about the people with a psychological disorder and the other alphabet people, making the news as they force their personal choice issues on us. You brought up something more important to the world, where an entire country is being taken over, at war, people dying. Genocide, civilians murdered, the Russian government lying on a daily basis. UFOs and aliens are not news or important, they are just sensational stories to sell tabloids or fantasy books.
Our gender is not debatable, labeled as assigned at birth, it is our genetics. We don't get to pick, based on some emotion or psychological disorder. People being murdered in the Ukraine is more important. If you don't see enough honest news, you aren't looking in the right places. If you are depending on news that comes out of Russia, of course it's all lies and coverup. The rest of the world is showing us the truth.
Ukraine as an entire country is not captured or occupied completely. You are already making mistakes in your conclusions. I don’t know what country you live in, let’s say you live in the USA. But I can say for sure that you know very little about what is happening in Ukraine and what Russia’s goals are. This is because your media dose the information they give you and pursue political goals so that Biden’s rating does not decrease. After all, the bad news about US politics is the decline in Biden's rating.
Thus, by analogy, it can be argued that the media controlled by different governments do not provide the public with sufficient information about UFOs.
Some certain people know more about UFOs than others because some of the information is kept secret and is not available to most.
You are completely dependent on your media because you don’t watch or read other media. You and your brain are controlled by the US Democratic Party. The same goes for UFOs.
;D ;D ;D
If your media didn’t tell you something, it means you think it doesn’t exist. It's simple. You don’t even think, you know for sure that if they don’t talk about it in the media, then you can walk by and not notice UFOs and aliens.
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Thus, the lack of publicly available truthful information about UFOs and aliens makes this topic meaningless. If there is no information, then there is nothing to talk about. We are blind and we are controlled by those in power.
How are we different from a herd of cows or rams? We are no different !!!
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How are we different from a herd of cows or rams? We are no different !!!
Speak for yourself!