Quote from: cascoly on December 10, 2024, 17:54

Quote from: stoker2014 on December 09, 2024, 15:02

...
The people from pond support have been fired!
...

your evidence for this claim?

Uncle pete says he received support yesterday!

My evidence? Write any letter of support yourself, and you will see the result.
 

I hate to answer as people get personal about things like this. Facts are facts, I get responses from Pond5 and a real person, not the SS "Experts". December 9th

Hello Pete,


Thanks for reaching out to our support team. Our Pond5 CS team is still here, and we apologize for the wait time. We have moved over to a new system, and are still getting aquatinted with navigating this system and still trying to get through our backlog. We are severely behind due to an influx of tickets as well as learning a new system, but working diligently to reply as soon as possible.


We thank you for being patient with us during this transition.


I see you are still pending a reply regarding 183 files that require Press Credentials. I have reached back out to our curation team for a follow up. As soon as I hear back from them, I will send you an update.


Thank you for your support and understanding during this time.


Cheers,

Sara

So... maybe it's you or your location. 

How is life in your fantasy world?

Everybody knew that when pond5 was sold it was over.

And yet people kept promoting the p5 exclusive thing although anyone with half a brain knew they are riding a dead horse.

The SS rat race would be much worse, the current rate is industry standard.

So yes, it is better than what I expected.

But go and whine that the stockworld doesn�t worship you�

Some of us run this as a business, which means you also anticipate the bad news

I'll have to read further and what everything is going to be, unless I'm just not reading this right?

Starting on January 15, 2025, we will introduce new contributor royalty rates. Artists will now earn a 30% royalty from licensing activity on Pond5, while Exclusive video artists will earn an increased royalty of 40%.

Old in case anyone doesn't have that handy.
Video: Exclusive video contributors receive 60% revenue share. Non-exclusive video contributors receive 40% revenue share.
Contributors who license photographs, illustrations, After Effects, and other templates receive 50% revenue share.

Funny to call it an increased royalty when it's going down  If I have this right, 60% exclusive video, will now be 40%. Everything else was 50% and is moving to 30%? In shorter terms, a 20% cut off of everything?

Yes, we all knew that SS would cut and chop, I was surprised that it didn't happen faster. I think you're correct, whether I like it or not, that does bring them into the range of the industry standard, maybe slightly higher for video exclusive and above most for photos, illustrations, but below Alamy 40% or Adobe 33%. (IS 15% & SS so low they have to pay the minimum instead of a percentage 10� ) DT whatever that is a percentage of what you can find in a Black Hole.

What? The world of stock doesn't worship me and think I'm the reason they are a success? I'm hurt. 

Well there we go, whatever Shutterstock touches turns to crap and that is true here.

First they remove the ability to set your prices and adjust your own prices, often downwards.  Now they cut the percentage you can earn from those prices.

Everyone knew this would happen after SS bought them.  It's the slow process of them being absorbed and cease to exist as a separate entity.  I cant wait for 12 cent video sales to start.

100% right.

Maybe. Yes I know that's almost not and answer, but it's the truth.

What puts me off is, only Adobe, and the millions of new images. What chance would me work have. I can do other real photos and illustrations. Part of that is, Does AI really sell, or is it like making best sellers and looking at what sells best and making hat, when there's already too much.

Why should I work for one agency, when SS, IS, Alamy, don't want it, and DT is a black hole. The potential is not very hopeful.



So maybe on a limited basis, when I'm not doing something else? AI is becoming Sliced Tomatoes.

Ah that old question, that has no answer? What is Art? 

I think the article covers AI pretty well. If the prompt creates something that is like something else, or mimicking someone else, in the style of someone famous, it's not the fault of the AI, it's the fault of the human writing the prompt. By design, everything AI creates, is new and not a derivative.

I think there are still many people who are against AI, because they don't understand how training and creation works, or don't want to accept the facts. Machine learning, does not use the original images, in any way, when it makes something from the program. All the AI knows is language to styles, colors, patterns and bits and pieces. The original training data is never accessed again.

What is art and what's not? I think Andy Warhol is not art. He was popular, and trendy and used a photo copier to take others images and make something new. Talk about derivatives? Talk about stealing and copying. But people pay big money for his garbage.

I think Jackson Pollack is an artist, who created original and unique works. Other think he was a nut case and call him Jack the Dripper. I'd hand one of his works in my house. I wouldn't want to own a Warhol, unless it was to get rid of it, for a profit.

Piet Mondrian? Nope, how does paining geometric patterns, come off as one of the greatest artists of the 20th Century and abstract art? I don't get it?

Picasso, I get some of it, don't understand some of the rest. At some point, the creative style and expression, moves from fresh and new, into a cartoon of itself. I didn't say it's not art, I just think that at some point, it became a commercialized mockery of itself.

Opinions differ. But as far as AI imaging, I'm still not convinced it's actually creative Art. A machine makes it. Someone can argue the machine is the tool. Maybe, but I'm still not convinced that the person making the image, is personally connected to the specifics and details of every part of the image, that a machine has created. If a human isn't putting everything down on the canvas, the image, the illustration or whatever the AI output is, then a machine is doing it and making part of the decisions.

When human prompting gets complex enough that an artist can describe and place, every single element, texture, object, color, and background in an AI artwork, then I'm going to change my mind.

Someone who sees it differently, tell me how you visualize your work, before the prompt and know, before the AI makes the image, if it's going to be what you imagined? Or if it's something like what you described, but the machine came up with the final version?

Yes production is very easy. Hundreds company is offering this service for monthly or yearly payment.

I'll never be going into that. Thanks for the interesting story and how it's done.

Once you really start to look for niches and gaps you realize how empty the agencies really are.

I think there are some of us who have been saying that for about ten years. Find subjects, shots that are missing or have low counts, maybe older or not so great images, and make the best one possible, new, fresh, modern, or at least better than anything else that's on the sites.

You're right, there's room for niche subjects, and a need. The other thing that's easy is, find location specific images, locally. There never seems to be an end to the need for those, and everyone can't go there to compete. Along the same lines, if anyone can get access to something that most others cannot, that's also a good possibility.

You made the entire 2:27 video from AI short clips? Amazing! That must have taken a great amount of planning and prompting. 

I've never done any voice over, which I assume is text to voice, and the closed caption works well. 👍

One thing,I believe it would be how Vikings Built ships, in the past tense? Unless you did mean, they are building ships now? 

Here is another one, same AI pictures from Adobe published on SS as well.

https://www.shutterstock.com/es/g/karacacen
https://stock.adobe.com/contributor/207394829/karacacennet

I suppose if SS ever cared to check, this would be a problem. Oh look, description on Adobe "Indian Ocean, Mauritius Whales and sperm whales and vibrant coral reefs and sea Turtles. Mauritius island under waterfall, Mauritius undersea, Mauritius sea" WOW!

Again, it does raise the question as to whether Shutterstock are happy to just let this slide through, and will just deal with any customer complaints if they get them.

That is the question, isn't it?

I only had 900 and something, so I made an effort to get to 1,000. Sort of a sideways joke, because those who recall, one of the regulars here years ago, had a personal mission to make it to 10,000 files, in a year on SS. (and he did) I don't hear from him anymore, but as he pounded the keys and made more and more photos, he also saw what sold and did more of anything like that. In the end, some very good numbers.

Today 4DL, Position 17,700th and I'm doing this to point out how 4 DLs puts me near the middle, which is sad if anyone looks at the overall situation. I like Adobe, don't get me wrong, I'm just saying, if I'm in the middle, wow, there's not much going on for the next 15,000 people.

The agencies rely on a lot of people chasing the dream of a decent stable income as well as hobbyists who are glad to get pennies to keep their supply of images high and the prices they have to pay to get them low. They have no real interest in discouraging people from submitting - unless they are only submitting junk, then they should be discouraged, but even a complete hack gets lucky every once in a while and can producer a modest seller.

If you have drive and talent there are definitely better ways to make money. If you don't have drive and talent there are also better ways to make money.

I don't blame the agencies for taking money and they don't really say how much you can make. OK I need to qualify that, the top and the honest agencies, don't make those promises. The biggest push for "make money on Microstock" was people selling referrals and their book or their courses. There was more money in that, until the agencies had enough people and didn't need the social marketing. Just like levels and pay for us, they took away, referral bonuses, except for people who bring in new buyers.

I'm a hobbyist and no I'm not happy making pennies. But that's all that's out there, unless someone is dedicated, smart and hard working. If there was any easy money, that's over and gone.

The most surprising thing I see is, new people come here and read and ask questions and they try to find some secret, how to make money. Most of the forum is honest and says,"You're too late" but the new people keep trying new agencies, new schemes, new programs with empty promises, and they just don't get past entry levels, because, that's all that's left. Free sites, who would ever believe the numbers they claim for giving away your work?

Next new person who reads this... join the top five agencies, work hard and upload, don't bother with the "next big thing". 

Quote from: Andrej.S. on November 28, 2024, 10:59

I can't find the terms of use anymore but I remember a period of 3 months when you were not allowed to delete a huge amount of your content. Probably they changed it in the meantime. But I personally would not face the risk, especially when you have a good selling account since It's very hard to start with a new one nowdays.

You can read your contributor agreement here: https://wwwimages2.adobe.com/content/dam/cc/en/legal/servicetou/Adobe-Stock-Contributor-Agreement-en_US-20240618.pdf
It states:
"You may remove any Work from the Website at any time, provided, however, that you do not remove more than 100 items of Work or 10% of the Work, whichever is greater, in any 90-day period without 90 days'
prior written notice to Adobe."

What would be something I'd fear, would be that I remove something and then the new version is rejected. Seeing that this year, I have more rejections than accepted images, and suddenly I don't know how to take a photo or focus the camera.  I don't know that I'd want to risk, remove and upload tricks.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on November 27, 2024, 14:31

LAION owns the metadata and release as CC-BY-4.0
"We do not own the copyright of the images or text."
LAION 5B was completed in 2022 before AI had invaded most sites.
LAION 5B and the previous collections are Open Source

Any future training should exclude AI images. I'm not saying it will, but it should. Part of the problem of scraping for AI is more complicated when it comes to text and undisclosed writings that are created by AI. But here, I think we're concerned with images.

"AI has generated 150 years worth of images in less than 12 months, study shows" https://www.designboom.com/technology/ai-has-generated-150-years-worth-of-photographs-in-less-than-12-months-study-shows-08-21-2023/

Just for interest: LAION-5B contains 2.3 billion English samples, 2.2 billion multilingual samples, and 1.2 billion unknown language samples.  Depending on bandwidth, it�s feasible to download the entire LAION-5B dataset in 7 days using 10 nodes.

I hope that answers some questions about the size and access. I think from what I've found, the dataset is free, and no one was charged or paid for the content. Non-profit funding was used for the gathering of the data.

I don't know if anyone has taken a closer look at the LAION-5B dataset.

I don't remember any high-resolution images in there, just some thumbnails with watermarks.

I mean, if someone had painted the pictures, scanned them and then used them as training material, would anyone have complained?

For me, Robert is the epitome of hypocrisy.
He complains about the LAION-5B dataset, but generates his own AI images with Midjourney & Co.

Clown world.

I can't comment on anyone else, or hypocrisy, I don't know. I'm interested in the questions of law, AI and the output.

The way I understand things and I know there are people who disagree, the images are used for training, not for creation of new images. So the machine it trained to make a banana after looking at thousands of pictures of bananas, and learning the shape, color and bits of information of "what is a banana". Then when a new image is made, none of the original images are directly used, as the machine creates from what it has learned.

Also I see many posts and if I read things right, LAION 5B and the previous projects are licensed Creative Commons and they are Open Source, which I interpret to mean, they are FREE not licensed for a fee. Since those datasets are older and not continuous, completed in 2022, anything new that some AI software wants to add, to make the machine better, has to be paid for, from some other source.

Quote from: zeljkok on November 27, 2024, 02:41

Quote from: pancaketom on November 26, 2024, 20:35

I have had numerous instances of image sales on Alamy that are refunded and rebought. Usually the new sale is for a small bit less $ - often just cents. The most frustrating was when they cut our take 20% from 50 to 40% and a big sale from before the slash was refunded and repurchased after the slash (months later) for maybe a dollar less, but I got a lot less because of the percentage cut.

Do you have any theory / explanation as to why refund / repurchase, for slightly lower amount,  happens?  I presume this has nothing to do with Alamy accounting, but end customer?

I always assumed it was mostly from the customer - maybe they realized they needed a slightly different usage or time frame and then contacted Alamy who said refund and purchase this slightly different deal. I don't actually know though.

I've had the same and the following sale is always lower. $77.24 became $69.51. Another funny one was someone licensed the same image, small and large, same day, $40 and $40? Unless there was something in the news and I magically had two sales of the same image of a scenic view? Surprised that this ever sold at all, anywhere. Hazy morning, I climbed up a day after it rained, no choice. Take it or leave it. 2 miles roundtrip, 350 feet elevation gain.



But I've never had an image refunded, that wasn't licensed right after, again. Yet.

Made it into the inner 1k. Happy day

Nice Numbers!