I know a person in India who has hired 12 year old kids from a school to generate AI images, add keywords and upload them to Adobe. He manages 16 different accounts using names of family members and is making thousands of dollars. He told me that he uploads over 1000 images a day and is trying to expand his business to upload at least 3000 images a day.

Lol. Yep - many east indian "business models are "steal or spam as quickly as possible, and try and get away with it before anyone notices".

Thing is... (a) "ai" is not "ai", i.e., thinking algorithms. it is sophisticated theft. (b) people SHOULD actually be taking action to get perpetual compensation (i.e., daily compensation) for ANY and ALL of their images/assets that were EVER trained. It is very easy to do. The companies stealing people's stuff just need to do it.

Quote from: SuperPhoto on February 20, 2024, 22:30

Theft is theft. The current "AI" systems are based off of theft, pure and simple.

Because YOU say so.     But that's fine, we all have a right to our own opinions.

We don't have the right to make laws or insist that others accept our own personal version of reality. The world functions on systems, courts and laws.

I'm waiting for the system to investigate, debate, and come to a conclusion. Then we'll know if AI is fair use or theft.

Lol. Not sure if you are just having fun, for sake of having fun, because I am pretty sure you are smarter than that lol...

It's because it is a fact, not just because I say so - although I do happen to say so as well.

So... if you believe the court is above your own common sense - WOULD you actually let someone sleep with your wife - just anyone - if the court said it was "fair use", and accept that verdict?

One thing I dislike is when companies have 'new' agreements automatically overriding the 'previous' agreement that is not easily/readily available to view... and they don't tell you what the changes are so one many times has to 'guess'...

So good thing I made a copy of it so I could review it!

The "too long didn't read" version of changes are:

a) In section (3) Seems they just simply specify submissions (i.e., implied "ai") are not "deceptive/misleading"
b) In section (5) just stronger language in terms of the payment "only" is specifically according to the royalty plan outlined @ their URL
c) Section (6) has a lot of brand new stuff, which looks like it is specifically to address the influx of (probably 1000's) of brand new contributor accounts, and basically looks like they are trying to be better in terms of (potential) issues with new accounts/submissions/etc...

To me, if one accepted the previous terms, these new terms seem reasonable.

Here is the longer comparison, and then I've included the actual agreement (from March 1st/effective April 15th/2022) at the end...

======================================================

For those who are interested, these seem to be the changes between the current agreement (Feb 2024), and the (effective) April 15th 2022 version...

3) i)

"or false information, or contain any illegal or defamatory content."

becomes:

"deceptive or false information, contain any illegal or defamatory content, or contain any elements that may disrupt or harm the functioning of the Website, our products, features or services"

ii)

"For Work designated "editorial use only," you represent and warrant that: (1) the Work truthfully depicts the subject; (2) all corresponding keywords, descriptions, credits, and captions are accurate; and (3) the Work has not been modified in a way that alters its editorial context or integrity."

becomes:

"For Work designated "editorial use only," you represent and warrant that: (1) the Work truthfully depicts the subject; (2) all corresponding keywords, descriptions, credits, and captions are accurate and are neither deceptive nor misleading; and (3) the Work has not been modified in a way that alters its editorial context or integrity"

iii) This is brand new:

"You agree that we may apply the designation of a Work as "editorial use only" where deemed appropriate by us."

5.

"5.1 Pricing and Payment Details. We will pay you as described in the pricing and payment details at https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/royalty-details.html (or successor page or URL) (collectively, "Pricing and Payment Details") for any sales of licenses to Work, less any cancellations, returns, and refunds."

becomes:

"5.1 Pricing and Payment Details. We will pay you solely to the extent expressly described in the pricing and payment details at https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/royalty-details.html (or successor page or URL) (collectively, "Pricing and Payment Details") for any sales of licenses to Work, less any cancellations, returns, and refunds."

6. This section has a lot of new stuff: (brand new)
brand new: i)

6.1 Requirements for Work. You will (A) deliver the Work in the format(s) and via the delivery method(s) we request; and (B) submit the Work in accordance with the guidelines and procedures described at https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/user-guide.html (or a successor page or URL we designate) or as otherwise provided by us to you (collectively, the "Guidelines", which are hereby incorporated by reference into the Terms). If we remove your Work for violating the Terms, we will make reasonable efforts to inform you of our decision via the contributor portal or the email address you provided to us. If you believe that your Work was removed in error, you may submit an appeal by following the process outlined in our communication to you or as described at https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/submission-guidelines.html (or a successor page or URL we designate)

brand new as well ii)

6.3 Contributor Account. We may refuse to establish an account or close any existing account for failure to comply with these Terms, for breach of these Terms or any other agreement that you have with us, or for our convenience. If we close your contributor account for violating the Terms, we will make reasonable efforts to inform you of our decision via the contributor portal or the email address you provided to us. If you believe your contributor account has been closed in error, you may submit an appeal by following the process outlined in our communication to you or as described at https://helpx.adobe.com/stock/contributor/help/submission-guidelines.html (or a successor page or URL we designate).

iii) And removed this section from the previous agreement:

"Additionally, you will submit the Work for our review in accordance with the guidelines available on our Website or provided by us to you ("Guidelines"). We may modify the Guidelines from time to time. You should look at the Guidelines regularly. We may accept or reject the Work you upload to the Website or otherwise submit to us, at our sole discretion."

For reference, this was the previous agreement:

Published March 1, 2022. Effective as of April 15, 2022. Replaces all prior versions.

These Additional Terms are incorporated by reference into the Adobe General Terms of Use ("General Terms") located at www.adobe.com/go/terms and govern your use of the Adobe Stock Services as regards to the upload or submission of any Work to Adobe Stock, except if you are a resident of Germany, the terms at http://www.adobe.com/go/contributorterms_de apply. These Additional Terms apply to all Content, photographs, illustrations, vectors, images, templates, 3D assets, videos, and other pictorial or graphic works (collectively and including all associated keywords, descriptions, credits, and captions) that you submit to us or upload to a Website under these Additional Terms or any other prior version thereof (�Work(s)).� These Additional Terms and the General Terms are collectively referred to as "Terms." Capitalized terms not defined here have the same meaning as defined in the General Terms. "Website" means our websites and applications that facilitate access to these websites, including but not limited to contributor.stock.adobe.com, fotolia.com, stock.adobe.com, and adobe.com. If you submit Work on behalf of the applicable copyright owner(s), you represent and warrant that you have the authority to, and will, ensure that such copyright owner(s) comply with the Terms where necessary. If you submit Work on behalf of an entity, then the Terms apply to that entity and its affiliates. In such case, you represent and warrant that you have the authority to bind the entity to the Terms.

1. Licenses for Adobe. You grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, perpetual, fully-paid, and royalty-free license to use, reproduce, publicly display, publicly perform, distribute, index, translate, and modify the Work for the purposes of operating the Website; presenting, distributing, marketing, promoting, and licensing the Work to users; developing new features and services; archiving the Work; and protecting the Work. We may use the Work for the purposes of marketing and promoting your Work, the Website, our business, and our other products and services, in which case you grant us a non-exclusive, worldwide, fully-paid, and royalty-free license to use, reproduce, publicly display, distribute, modify, publicly perform, and translate the Work as needed, and we may compensate you at our discretion as described in section 5 (Payment) below. You also grant us the right, but not the obligation, to use your display name, trademarks, and trade names in connection with our marketing and promotional activities and our license to the Work under the Terms.

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4. Ownership and Use of the Work. Neither title nor any ownership interest in or to the Work is transferred to us as a result of the Terms. Except for the licenses granted by you pursuant to the Terms, we do not claim any ownership rights to the Work. Both we and our users who use a Work have the right, but not the obligation, to identify you as the creator or source of the Work in a customary manner. You understand and agree that, in commercial uses of the Work, (A) creators are not customarily credited in such uses; (B) users will not be obligated to credit creators; and (C) Work may be modified and used in connection with any subject matter (except pornographic or illegal). You therefore waive any right to object to these common business practices; however, User Agreements do not permit use of Works for pornographic or illegal purposes. In addition, metadata may be altered, removed, or added, without any liability to us, our distributors, or users. We are not liable for non-compliance with the terms of a User Agreement or for misuse by any third party. You grant us the right to enforce your IP Rights against infringers, but we have no obligation to do so. If you believe your Work has been misused, you agree to notify us and take no action without our prior written consent.

5. Payment.
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6. Delivering, Submitting, and Managing the Work.
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Quote from: SuperPhoto on February 20, 2024, 09:12

Quote from: Uncle Pete on February 18, 2024, 13:56

Quote from: SuperPhoto on February 17, 2024, 11:58

The big thing people need to remember is essentially these "ai" tools are:
(a) based off of massive theft

A big thing you might remember is, that's a personal opinion, the courts and laws haven't decided that, yet.

Lol - "theft" is "theft".

If a court decided that a cat was actually a kangaroo with a mexican sombrero, would it make it so? No, of course not. It would still be a cat. (It's funny though, I suppose perhaps that's why a lot of ppl acting insane the last 4 years and did very foolish things, because they actually believed a 'court' had 'authority' over their own common sense/own two eyes/etc). Kind of like the story "The Emperor's New Clothes". Most people were "afraid" to state the obvious (i.e., never was a 'virus', wearing a "mask" was pretty dumb/foolish to suffocate yourself, which lol 'caused' 'respiratory issues', etc, etc).

It really doesn't matter what the "courts" say - a cat is still a cat. And regardless of what the "courts" say - if they declare stealing to be okay - it is still stealing. (& the "courts" are heavily influenced/owned by the corporations $$$, and the corporations heavily influenced by the people that pull the strings of those corporations).

Perhaps though - that is what a "kangaroo" court is. When people act extremely dumb like they did, and it takes a child to say 'Hey! The emperor has no clothes!".

While your argument is entertaining, and reality is, a cat is a cat, legal and illegal is not a physical object or scintific definition. You can't compare a concept to a doorknob and say, the same rules apply to both.

Besides, against your cut and dried, everything is only what it is, and theft is theft because "I say so." The laws are different from place to place, country to country, and in fact, locally, state to state. Laws don't argue that a cat isn't a cat. What is allowed in the next state from here, all four directions, will get you some jail, possibly, we can't legally posses or burn, some specific natural herbs. 

Legally, until the courts have decided that AI is fair use or theft, I think it's not reasonable to start and argument with a false premise or statemnt of fact, that is not true.

AI fair use, is not theft.

Quote from: SuperPhoto on February 17, 2024, 11:58

The big thing people need to remember is essentially these "ai" tools are:
(a) based off of massive theft

Nope. But the rest you are right. I'm not impressed by some moving images tricks. Not yet. I'm not sold on the still images, that are distorted monsters much of the time, improbable and impossible physical objects. But they are fun for making the impossible into an image.

Let the courts decide the laws.

The "court" system is a game, that's why it's called 'court' (i.e., like a basketball court, etc). Many things are cut & dry. If someone doesn't see it that way, again - I suppose that's probably a big reason why so many people ignored the obvious the last 3-4 years, many acted rather insane, and obediently wore masks, shoved sticks up their nose, then poisoned themselves with injections, and some currently march around like penguins, and look like penguins too.

If someone sleeps with your wife, and a court says 'Wellll... no, he didn't 'actually' sleep with her, he was just keeping her warm inside and out because she her cloths just all of the sudden fell off, and she didn't want to get cold - so its "fair use"'... I'm pretty sure (assuming you love your wife and are married), you won't go "Oh gosh, well - the COURT said it was 'fair use', so MMkay!'. If someone takes money out of your wallet, or cleaned out your bank account, if the court ruled it 'fair use', pretty sure you wouldn't just rollover and go with their verdict.

Theft is theft. The current "AI" systems are based on theft. It's not "because" I've said so (even though what I said and stated is accurate) - it's because it a simple, observable fact.

"They" scraped 5 billion images, didn't compensate the authors - and one of THE biggest peskiest "problems" those same companies have is how to get rid of WATERMARKS - aka "marks" indicating it is COPYRIGHTED material. Or rather - that the asset belongs to another person that did not have the intent of making it 'freely' available.

You can put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig. It doesn't magically become your wife (although lol some people might argue the prefer a pig in lipstick).

Theft is theft. The current "AI" systems are based off of theft, pure and simple.

What the "courts" are actually "deciding" (or - rather the people who pay off the judges/politicians/etc - and whether or not those same judges/politicians/etc are corruptible or have principles and go along with it) - is how "easy" it is for someone to go after the people who ARE, in fact stealing the assets - through the "legal (game) system". Doesn't mean there aren't other options - it just means the (basketball style) "court" system may or may not make it easy for someone to get compensation for stolen assets.

So to be ACCURATE... if you are looking for retribution/compensation via the "court SYSTEM" (it is not the only way of getting compensation/stopping the theft) - then to play the "court" game correctly - one would need to be well versed in their owellian doublespeak/definitions of language. But regardless of whatever they "call" it - theft is still theft.

The companies creating the "AI" tools are stealing, pure and simple. They can put lipstick on the pig by calling it "research", or "community development" or whatever double speak they want - it's still lipstick on a pig.

Current "AI" systems are theft. Not "fair use", but 100% pure theft, pure & simple. Simple, observable facts.

The courts can call it whatever they want, and make it as easy or difficult as they wish for people to be compensated for the theft, but it is still theft.

Quote from: SuperPhoto on February 17, 2024, 11:58

The big thing people need to remember is essentially these "ai" tools are:
(a) based off of massive theft

A big thing you might remember is, that's a personal opinion, the courts and laws haven't decided that, yet.

Lol - "theft" is "theft".

If a court decided that a cat was actually a kangaroo with a mexican sombrero, would it make it so? No, of course not. It would still be a cat. (It's funny though, I suppose perhaps that's why a lot of ppl acting insane the last 4 years and did very foolish things, because they actually believed a 'court' had 'authority' over their own common sense/own two eyes/etc). Kind of like the story "The Emperor's New Clothes". Most people were "afraid" to state the obvious (i.e., never was a 'virus', wearing a "mask" was pretty dumb/foolish to suffocate yourself, which lol 'caused' 'respiratory issues', etc, etc).

It really doesn't matter what the "courts" say - a cat is still a cat. And regardless of what the "courts" say - if they declare stealing to be okay - it is still stealing. (& the "courts" are heavily influenced/owned by the corporations $$$, and the corporations heavily influenced by the people that pull the strings of those corporations).

Perhaps though - that is what a "kangaroo" court is. When people act extremely dumb like they did, and it takes a child to say 'Hey! The emperor has no clothes!".

wow, sick.

thanks. insane how these ppl love to steal & resell because they are soooooooooo lazy to do any real work themselves.

3 million views - for 'adsense', if enabled, probably made about $20k from stolen ppls work...

probably not the only one... I'd suggest doing a youtube search for "free" + "stock" + "footage" & variants, and you'll probably find a lot more... this kind of thing tends to be popular in east indian communities (although of course not the only ones that do it) - and usually there are certain "get rich quick" schemes in some forums, which are less than ethical, and sold as "courses"...

Quote from: SuperPhoto on February 16, 2024, 16:45

I'd say if someone chooses to do pictures/footage for any one of the fake narratives going on being pushed by the media tend to be popular, i.e., "climate change"/"sustainabilty/zero carbon" crap/garbage, "ai/security "threats"", "convid", the "gay/trans" agenda to try and discourage caucasian/western people from having children (have you watched any t.v. recently - is excessive on some channels), etc... if you want to see what narrative/storyline is being pushed - just read any of the stories published on the world economic forum "wef"/un/who/etc...

But aside from those narratives... I'd say it depends/goes in cycles, depends on the type of footage you have/etc...

Hehe, yeah... I am with you on this. I live in Amsterdam (while not being dutch), and seeing all those lgbt flags all over the city (and country) I realize that I could easily cash on it, but I am not doing it, because I couldnt look at myself in the mirror. I am willing to do many things (call electric car eco-friendly in the keywords, while knowing that it is pure bs), but I wont take photos of some rainbow flags or black lives matter, I hope I dont have to say why... there are enough people falling for this, but I am happy to say that winds are changing, and as someone else said "woke-ism" has peaked, and people have enough of that. It is a question of personal integrity. I guess it is already hypocritical enough of me, that I am documenting protests of climate activists, in a way giving them exposure and credibility, while being quite far from agreeing with them and their methods. Anyway, life is a shitshow, and giving too much attention to what is happening in The World detracts from more important things.

I'm really happy to hear you choose not to participate in that. Same here, I choose not to either. It's disgusting filthy garbage, such that many of the stock agencies (who themselves are being 'enticed' by grants/money/etc) are trying to bribe people with promise of 2-3x revenue to produce that filth, to promote filthy agendas perpetrated by the united nations/world economic forum/karazian 'mafia', and a subset of a certain group of jooo word (that control/run the blackrock/vanguard "investment" firms) that play the victim to try and appear above reproach, etc, etc.

Documenting 'climate activitists' is fine. You are recording actual people doing insane things, and not using their brains. There are people being dumb (rather, have no clue what it is they are 'protesting' and just doing what the tell-a-vision tells them too). I took pictures of people wearing masks (never wore one myself, ever). Thought it was funny and sad, and hilarious & insane all mixed up at the same time. Sadly - people who still wear the demondiapers now "literally" are "stupid" - because they've suffocated themselves sooo much, they don't realize they have literally done brain damage, as well as other types of organ damage from oxygen deprivation. The big kicker that many people don't yet fully realize - is there never was & still isn't "a virus".  It was an organized pysops by some very wealthy & sick individuals. I am shocked and saddened when I see people still wearing masks (I think I actually saw 10-15 today in the area I live). It is really sad.

Anyways, telling the truth and leading by example is one of the most important things you can do. So I'm glad to hear you aren't manipulated by the lure of 'money' like many of the agencies, who in turn are being controlled/manipulated/lured/enticed/etc by the blackrock/vanguard conglomerate and the ones that control that, are trying to do.

Haha.

What is funny, is it says "Adobe stock fell to... 54 =>6.66<=."... ("On the stock market today, ADBE stock fell 7.4% to close at 546.66." (And also '5+4=9 = inverted 6', etc)) It's also funny it seems "only" adobe was the "target" of that "news attack". The big "investors" probably worked hard to make it that #.

If you didn't notice during convid, there was a lot of that deliberate repetition of the #6... as in "6 feet away, 6 ppl or less, 6 inch testing swab"... or "build back better"=> "6uild 6ack 6etter"... (the pyschopaths who organized that nonvirus "threat" are the same one's pushing the "ai" stuff, trying to convince people that they need to become welfare citizens of 'the state', so they become dependant (and more controllable) by a 3rd party).

Just funny the "news" (which almost all of it is propoganda to push a narrative, not useful informative) article said "that" was the share price that adobe was at...

Anyhoo...

a) OpenAI is built off of theft. Pure & simple. 100% theft.
b) It's not "ai". It's not "thinking" - it's sophisticated 'blending' of images.
c) "AI" has been around for 30-40+ years. The "news" just "decided" (at the request of the pyschopaths) that "2023" was the "year of AI". (Jan 2023 was when all the "news" outlets parroted the same thing).
d) Many people are too lazy or think - it is still "work" to even type in "two golden retrievers doing a podcast" let alone thing of it. Just because it "may" become an available tool - doesn't mean it will take everything. But - the "shots" were designed to dumb people down even further (sad for anyone that took them, because they most likely have health side effects now, was ridiculous that many ppl voluntarily suffocated themselves with 'mathsks', some even still doing it now for 3+ years, crazy).
e) Part of a push for the "digitalid" (i.e., id2020.org) for your "health & safety" (which, of course, is neither for your health, nor your safety - it's all about control/greed/hording/tracking/surveillance/etc).

Anyhoo.

Interesting/different times.

Lol, theft on steroids, "for research purposes", funded by blackrock/vanguard, owned by pyschopaths.

I would get a friend to sign up, download 1-3 of your assets, and maybe of several other people (use search terms you know you show up for, as opposed to directly accessing the portfolio). Test it - and see if you get credit.

Post results here. Contributor auditing is a good idea.

PPS, an alternative "fairer" solution is - since these companies like having "contributor pools" - any un-used credit pack redemptions go into a "contributor" pool that is then divvied up based on clip usage, and paid out monthly.

I.e., say a person only uses 1 clip out of a 10-clip pack for $100.
Instead of Adobe keeping $97, and only giving the contributor $3, the "unused" credits (i.e., 9x$10 = $90) go into the 'contributor pool', which is then divided up accordingly.

So 'initially' the contributor gets $3 (and adobe gets $7 for that redemption).
Other $90 goes into the "contributor pool", since only clip was redeemed - contributor gets 33% of that $90 (so an additional $30) and then adobe gets the remaining $60.

So instead of the sleight of hand way of taking revenue from contributors, this is much fairer and in alignment with the original agreement.

If they are unique, add value, look good, and something a buyer would want to use, upload them all.

If they are spammy, designed to just try and spam the same image over and over in slightly minute type of variations, don't upload them.