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Messages - 4seasons

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So PayPal came to the conclusion that somebody had accessed your account, and as a security measure, they limited your account to protect you and your clients? God, they're so evil aren't they?!

In fact you know nothing about this situation, so your sarcasm is just the way to look smart. Congrats, you got few pluses.
Never be too confident because you never know. Maybe your PP account will be next tomorrow.
I prefer understanding and sympathy instead of arrogance and overconfidence.

Just to chime in on this. PayPal hit me hard last week. Not only did they limit my account, but they notified all my buyers to open up disputes saying my account was compromised. Now I have to go through all 100+ odd transactions and respond to them individually. I was like, what in the flying F!

Not to mention that I have future payments using PayPal, but my account is down. Total BS in a handbasket.

I came across the idea of stealth and been going over this guide: http://www.slideshare.net/AuctionEssistance/ebay-incognitostealth

But I am not entirely sure if this is the best way to go? Does anyone have some experience on stealth?

Please check two links I provided on my original post in this thread. I red some similar stories on these websites. I'm sure you'll find some help there. Good luck!

if there is non, call paypal and if they agree they will release your account, they have no reason to limit your account for fun, nor to steal your money, nor to get interest, nor to buy weapons of mass destruction. 184 million users tells me they are quite legit and trusted

I'm preparing a very detailed explanation one more time. I have a little hope they will change something. Will see.
And maybe, if they'll not reply, I'll call them.
Thank you.

Most people seem to use the argument "If you account gets limited there must be a reason" to justify their trust in paypal. Until it affects themselves. Maybe there is a reason. Maybe you gave them reasons. But believe me, in many cases there is non. I think meanwhile there should be enough testimonies around to make people careful.

I say the same as the OP. Be warned and do not trust. Not that I have any personal advantage of that.

Sometimes we make mistakes, sometimes someone else do harm to us. That's life.
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. And keep your faith in what you're doing.

I agree with what you are saying. We all have all suffered problems with this business. As this a photography forum a lot of us suffer the problem of sites stealing our work and giving it away. Although different and unrelated to the terrible injustice you have suffered it does help me sympathise with how b*tt hurt and all up in your feelings you are over the whole thing. Also well said regarding karma being a b!tch.

Thank you.
And yes, we all have some kind of problems with thieves, copycats, low earnings etc and etc. And the last one thing to destroy us is to close payment gates. Fine.
But, from the deep desperation we rise up again and go forward with a new hope.

if my account gets limited, there is probably a problem i need to resolve, it still isnt fraud and evil and illegal and what not bullsh!t

i have seen it too many time people blame paypal and turns out it was something they didnt act on. one person blamed paypal for everything wrong, turns out he refused to send in his passport, but that he didnt mention until people kept asking him what the full story was

Now your words sound a bit different and I'm kind to agree.
I also saw a lot of blames and lamentations because of various services. And I always thought that the biggest part of it is just a vain cry, because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is canceled or account is blocked. Until I himself got limited and felt it's consequences.

Even then, in the beginning of April, I didn't cry and didn't blame PP on forums. I just tried to understand, tried to find my mistakes, tried to resolve my problems alone. And only when I saw a one more post about limited account, I decided to create this thread to warn and to help. It's different from the self-pity whimper, accusing something or somebody because of your own mistake.

We can not generalize all situations and can't shake all cases in to one lump. So we can not make generalized conclusions. Every case can be different.

But you were using photos on your site that you lifted from the internet without tracking down the copyright holder to verify if they were in fact public domain. So isn't this "because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is cancelled or account is blocked."?

We always complain that it is wrong to expect photographers to have to chase infringements all over the internet and DMCA. Surely what Paypal did is ideal, I mean you are bit less likely to go lifting people's work from random "public domain" sites to draw traffic now right? Or I guess maybe not if you are blaming Paypal rather than yourself?

From all info I find out it had to be public domain site, not "public domain". I was deceived. And I'm blaming myself that I trusted them.

What Paypal did is not ideal. Ideal would be if they'd analyzed the situation after I contacted and explained, and either unblocked my account, either limited for a month. But not for 6 months, ruining all other business, without any reply. Of course, they have thousands accounts being limited and thousands emails from their owners, so they simply allow himself to not reply to some poor guy in Europe.

Am I angry? Of course!
Am I blaming Paypal because I think they acted inadequately, their punishment is unfair and they misused because they're Paypal? Yes!
Am I blaming Paypal without a reason? No.

Am I blaming himself for my mistakes (or "mistakes") and am I learning from them? How do you think?
If you think "no", you don't understand my situation, my feelings, my intention and meaning of this original post (in fact, you do not need that). But then any discussion will be only technical, lifeless and vain dispute between PP lovers and PP haters, where both sides will not change their mind and attitude in no way.
If you think "yes", you should not ask questions like this one.
If you don't know, then you should read one more time original post and my answers to other comments. If you want, of course. But if would be you or someone else, it must be read with open heart, pure insight, without preconception and pharisaic skepticism.
>>> a few words to all

You know, when I posted this original thread, I knew there is an army of Paypal fans and lovers. I knew that this topic will not be sugary and popular, and will be a lot of comments from opponents. That's fine, everyone of us have a right to free expression and opinion. But for me it was (and is) very interesting to look on human behavior. It's the most interesting part: to analyze reactions from different people. No, I'm not very important, I'm just a poor guy with big problems. But let me give a little advice: all of you, who're opponents today, try not to become a pharisee. You can comment anything, blame me, curse me or rejoice my misfortune. I don't care.

But if one day you'll meet similar problems (I do not wish that), you will remember this post and maybe will come here to read some helpful info, - that's I care about.
And maybe you'll remember my situation and will think twice before doing something unusual with Paypal, or you will come here to check a list of reasons of limited account - that's I care about.

It may sound very pompous, but all great things start from small.
So don't be a pharisee. For the sake of your own well-being.
Karma is a b!tch.

Good luck.

if my account gets limited, there is probably a problem i need to resolve, it still isnt fraud and evil and illegal and what not bullsh!t

i have seen it too many time people blame paypal and turns out it was something they didnt act on. one person blamed paypal for everything wrong, turns out he refused to send in his passport, but that he didnt mention until people kept asking him what the full story was

Now your words sound a bit different and I'm kind to agree.
I also saw a lot of blames and lamentations because of various services. And I always thought that the biggest part of it is just a vain cry, because weeper himself did something wrong and always must be a reason why the service is canceled or account is blocked. Until I himself got limited and felt it's consequences.

Even then, in the beginning of April, I didn't cry and didn't blame PP on forums. I just tried to understand, tried to find my mistakes, tried to resolve my problems alone. And only when I saw a one more post about limited account, I decided to create this thread to warn and to help. It's different from the self-pity whimper, accusing something or somebody because of your own mistake.

We can not generalize all situations and can't shake all cases in to one lump. So we can not make generalized conclusions. Every case can be different.

Now you will have an army of fanboys replying that they never had a problem and therefore it must be safe. No matter how many reports of honest people with problems are out there. How many lawsuits had been filed, documentaries had been filmed and articles published. For them it is safe. Period. And it always just happens to the others. And it is always the others fault lol.

Yep! And it's a one of places, where stupidity and arrogance can be revealed. Or wisdom, intelligence, unselfish.
I would say, be quiet, if everything goes well, rejoice and hope it'll go in the future.
Be understanding, if someone has problems and try to help.
You never know what can happen with you tomorrow.

so there are a few stories where things go wrong, of course, they have about a billion transactions per day and around 184 million active accounts, suggesting paypal is a fraud and evil and illegal, what not, is just bullsh!t

When you personally will get an email about account being limited it will also be bullsh!t?
Your Paypal advocating is childish, arrogant and stupid bullsh!t.

I think the OP said it was because they deemed one of his images to be pornographic, which he disagrees with. They don't allow paypal links on a site with pornographic material, it's in their terms.

Of course it was not a porn. If it was because of porn I would not posting here crying about bad PP. Maybe someone would, but not me.
I studied Paypal TOS and Agreement carefully before, and learned all their 'updates'. I was careful with usage of PP buttons.

More clarification: some third party claimed copyright issue because of one photo I found on a Public domain site and put in on one of my photography gallery, just for free browsing, among hundreds of other "beautiful photographs we can learn from". Third party contacted Godaddy and Paypal, because I had PP buttons installed on a subdomain where I was selling my graphics. I had a kind conversation with Godaddy, they asked, what's a problem, maybe I would like to fill a counter-claim etc. After we talked with GD and I explained situation, they gave my 2 weeks to decide. I decided better to remove this photo, because I have no time and nerves to fight. The same I explained to Paypal. No reply from them and my account has been frozen.

Thanks for posting this, I didn't realize it was this bad and risky and will look at changing to another service after this months pay.  How are the others? Skrill? Moneybookers? are they just as bad or risky?

You're welcome. Skrill, Payoneer and other online payment gates are all risky, more or less. The same as any bank. So you should always use a classic rule: never put all your eggs in one basket". We all heard a lot of stories about fail of big banks and companies through history. I himself use another rule: "hope for the best, prepare for the worst". And it was my mistake to build ~80% of my online payments on Paypal.

I updated my main post with two additions - a bit more helpful (I hope) info.
Just a little reminder: my intention was not a one more lamentation about 'bad Paypal', but to warn other users of PP to be prepared for unpleasant surprises and a little help from what I learned with my own skin.

Hi Brightontl, sadly I must say that I fully understand you, because I'm in the same boat.

You, your story, other complaints and my own experience inspired me to open a new topic about Paypal behavior, and to warn people to not trust in Paypal.
I'm sorry for you and wish you resolve your problems ASAP.

Please read this topic, I wrote a lot and didn't want to spam here by repeating

Don't trust in Paypal - your account can be limited without any evident reason:



I saw several posts on forum about Paypal' limited accounts. My account also has been limited and I learned a lot since that day.
So I'm writing this to warn other my colleagues and with a little help from what I learned.

First of all, I wish everyone happy earnings and peaceful business with Paypal.
I do not want to scare you, just friendly warn that one day can change everything, so be prepared.

Don't trust in Paypal (PP) 100%. It is good when everything is good, but one morning you can wake up and find out your account has been limited and all your financial life has been paralyzed, regardless the fact how good you was with PP. Without any reason. Just because. Because they are Paypal and they can do that. This is the main reason.

A month ago, after 8 years of using, I got email from Paypal that my account has been limited. At first I didn't realize how big my problem is, but just in hours after some research I understood that it's more than enough. After few days I find out, that PP ruined all my online business ~80%. I had only about $150 in my account, but the worst part was, that my main earnings were built on PP Merchant tools. I was shocked several days and can't do anything. Then I somehow came back to life and started to look for solutions. I also found many websites about PP unpredictable behavior, red hundreds horrible stories and testimonies and understood how terrible PP can be, if you fully trust it, because PP don't love you, PP don't care about you and only one thing that PP cares is money. Nothing personal, just business.

So I started recover my mind after this nightmare and began organize my payments on my all agencies and websites where I'm doing business. I redirected all possible payments to Skrill or Payoneer, but some agencies have no such possibilities (Zazzle, FAA, some other), so I had to hold my money for unlimited time. I restored about 30% of my earnings with alternative payment systems, but my main earning resources ended, regardless of fact that I installed alternative systems. So today I'm living on ~40-50% of my previous earnings. I'm a full time stocker, I have no other job, I'm just freelance photog and designer. And I'm trying to find other ways to survive in the world without PP.

Of course I knew about how not to put all your eggs in one basket and I predicted a nightmare like this. I didn't have another way how to resolve some payments without PP, but all other income I organized with other payment systems, so today I have at least 40-50% of my previous money. But it's not enough. We must live without fear and with full amount of money we earned. And PP can ruin your finances any day without any visible reason. That's why I hate PP now with all my heart.

I find out (I believe, I did that) what was the reason. It seems PP didn't like one photo on one of my websites, where PP buttons have been installed. I removed buttons and emailed them with explanations. Of course, they didn't reply. They very rarely reply. I have a little faith that after 180 days my account will be active again and I will be able to withdraw my money.

Beside this, the next day they limited my other account also. PP allows you to have two accounts, one Personal and one Business, so I had both and now both have been limited.


What happens when your account is limited:

What you can I do while your account is limited?
  • update your account information
  • add a card
  • add a bank account
  • use PayPal logos in your auction listings or on your website
What you can't I do while your account is limited?
  • send money
  • withdraw money from your account
  • receive or request money
  • close your account
  • add money to your account
  • remove a card
  • remove a bank account
  • send refunds

Avoiding Suspicion

To prevent your account from being limited in the first place, keep your account in order by following these guidelines:

• Treat your PayPal account as you would your bank account: use secret passwords and keep them to yourself!
• Make sure your true name is on your PayPal account and that it matches the name on your bank and credit card accounts. If you are a business, make sure the bank account and credit card on your account are also in your business name.
• Use accurate addresses and phone numbers that match those on your credit card and bank account, and keep them current. False contact information can raise suspicion on your account and make it more difficult to regain access.
• Delete old or obsolete bank accounts and credit cards from your account. If you do not keep your account up-to-date, you might find yourself in a bind when your account is limited and PayPal asks you to prove ownership of a bank account with an old address.
• If you are a seller, always use electronically trackable shipping methods so that if the shipment or receipt of a physical good is in doubt, you can easily prove your case. Also make sure to keep proof of inventory or merchandise, such as receipts, invoices, or 12 proof of authenticity for older, collectible items. Maintain good relationships with your suppliers so that you can easily access this information when you need it.
• If you have any old or abandoned PayPal accounts, make sure to resolve your issues with those accounts and then close them. If your account has been limited and PayPal sees linked accounts with issues, such as a negative balance or outstanding buyer complaints, PayPal will probably ask you to resolve those issues as well before they'll be willing to lift the limitation on your active account.


Prepare in advance.

  • Don't keep big amount of money on PP.
  • Open all other possible payment processors accounts: Skrill, Payoneer, other.
  • Look for alternative ways how to transfer money. Of course, we have limited choice as stock agencies don't use many
  • Do everything that you could live without PP.
  • And be quiet, don't play suspicious games with your account, be careful with your info etc. - please find a list below

Now I opened several alternative accounts with Payza, Neteller, Paxum, some other - for my online business next to stock agencies. Even renewed my interest in Bitcoin. Everything works, if you're ready for various unexpectedness.

And even doing everything right you have no guarantees that your account will not be limited. That is Paypal.

Understanding how PayPal acts, can help you anticipate what their next likely move will be, regarding Your Account.
What makes PayPal the company they are today?
PayPal's public face is very different from the private PayPal that many of us never see.
While PayPal denies publicly they have a customer service problem, they admit they have a customer service problem in private.
While PayPal denies publicly they don't make any money off of your money, PayPal admits it in legal documents.
PayPal publicly says their buyer protection is there for buyers, but in private
PayPal admits the policy is there to prevent costly chargebacks.

Now, I would like to share a couple of websites where you could find a lot of info what to do and how to act after your PP has been limited (usually for 180 days).
Many advices, alternatives and really some help how to resolve the problem.


Please pay attention in to their Toolkit Pro e-book, where you'll find some good advice and tips how to avoid problems with Paypal and how to get out of them.

All The Reasons Why PayPal Might Limit Your Account
PayPal Might Limit Your Account and Freeze Your Funds Because:

• You received too much money into your account (this can be any amount that is not in proportion to what you normally received during the average history of your account).
• You transferred too much money out of your account ($2,000 US is the rumored amount that triggers the fraud system).
• You called customer service at PayPal and made somebody angry (there are documented cases of irate customers calling PayPal only to find out their accounts were limited moments after the phone call was made).
• PayPal has reason to believe you have more than the allowed two PayPal accounts (One Personal Account/One Premier Account).
• Somebody filed a complaint with PayPal about you (a buyer or a seller or an interested third party).
• You filed a complaint against somebody (a buyer or a seller).
• You initiated a chargeback with your credit card company.
• You initiated a chageback with your credit card company before you filed a claim through PayPal's Buyer or Seller Protection Program.
• PayPal thinks you are trying to avoid paying PayPal fees by charging excessive shipping & handling charges for your sales.
• PayPal thinks you are using your PayPal account to speculate in the currency market.
• PayPal doesn't agree with some content on your website (example: a man who ran a well known blog had his PayPal account limited because his website contained a link to the Pearl terrorist killing. He accepted PayPal donations on his website for his news blog).
• PayPal believes you are in violation of its User Agreement.
• PayPal believes you are in violation of its Acceptable Use Policy (example: PayPal believes you used your account to purchase a dirty book or dirty magazine).
• PayPal believes you are in violation of its Privacy Policy (example: you gave information to the police about a fraud suspect who is also a PayPal member).
• PayPal believes you are in violation of their User Agreement.
• You used your PayPal Debit Card to purchase material that PayPal finds objectionable (even if it's legal in the real world).
• You charged too much money on your PayPal Debit Card.
• You went on vacation and used your debit card in another state or another country.
• You used your PayPal debit card to make an online transaction that was not through PayPal (or a telephone order).
• You refunded a buyer through your PayPal account -- but did not use the proper refund methods.
• You lost a dispute claim.
• You are late Paying your eBay fees -- or you owe eBay money.
• You received a negative feedback comment on your eBay account.
• You chose to use your PayPal account without verifying it.
• PayPal believes that your account information is not up-to-date -- even if they have no grounds to actually believe it.
• PayPal tried to contact you over the phone and you did not answer.
• You were the victim of fraud (example: you clicked on a link in an email that you thought was from PayPal but it was really a phishing website).
• You reported to PayPal an unauthorized purchase made on your PayPal account or your credit card.
• You moved into a house or new apartment that was occupied by somebody with a limited PayPal account.
• You logged into your PayPal account from a location that was not your usual log in location (example: friend's house or place of employment).
• PayPal has linked your account with another person who has a limited account and/or outstanding issues to resolve with PayPal.
• PayPal froze your account because they linked you as being "associated" with a family member of yours that has an outstanding PayPal problem to deal with.
• After conducting a credit check on you, your credit score was too high, too low or you had too many open lines of credit or debt.
• A third party contacts PayPal saying -- without evidence -- that you are engaging in fraudulent activity.
• PayPal suspects you are engaging in fraudulent activity.
• PayPal believes that your business practices are risky and pose a potential harm to yourself, to PayPal and to other PayPal members.
• The phone number you registered with PayPal happens to be the same phone number of somebody who has/had PayPal problems.
• You new ISP number was associated with somebody who has/had PayPal problems.
• You conducted a transaction with an individual who has PayPal problems (such as a buyer or a seller). PayPal will "link" you with that person.
• You sold something and the buyer was a con artist or scammer. You get "linked" to that person.
• You violated PayPal's user agreement by posting anti-PayPal writings or thoughts in a public place (example: internet)
• Your name, your address, your phone number, or your ISP is SIMILIAR to a person who has/had PayPal problems.
• You were associated with a person who has a frozen PayPal account.
• You refused PayPal's request for very private information about yourself.
• PayPal requested information from you which you supplied -- but you did not supply it fast enough.
• You logged into your PayPal account from a public internet cafe.
• You sold an item on eBay that is popular for scammers to sell (high priced items or popular items like Rolex watches, Play Stations, Computers, etc.)
• You sold a Play Station 3 on eBay.
• You sold an online e-book to a buyer who later filed a complaint against you -- PayPal asked you for a tracking number and you could not provide it.
• You went to PayPal's website and logged in using a proxy service or other anonymous software that you use to protect yourself on the internet.
• While registering, you typed your name wrong into your personal profile (example: Smith, John when it should be John Smith)
• You bought or sold something that was on PayPal's Restricted Items List (academic software, concert tickets, OEM software, surveillance equipment or adult material, etc.)
• You sent money to a country that is on PayPal's unauthorized list.
• You received money from a country that is on PayPal's unauthorized list.
• The bank account you verified with PayPal was a new account.
• You have a high credit card balance that triggered PayPal's fraud detection system -- a high card balance means a higher risk that you will engage in fraud.
• PayPal conducted a third party investigation of you. Based on those findings, they limited your account (you have been sued, arrested, charged with a crime, have too many debts etc.).
• PayPal tried to withdraw money from your bank account or credit card and was declined.
• You PayPal account shares similar details with an account that has already been frozen.
• You PayPal account is in the negative.
• Your PayPal account might become in the negative.
• A chargeback was filed against you.
• You attempted to modify or change your personal details but were not able to.
• You removed your bank account or credit card information from your PayPal account.
• PayPal believes you are not who you say you are.
• You withdrew or transferred $2,500 or more from your PayPal account within 24 hours or over a weekend.
• You did something strange (example: transferred money to a roommate with a PayPal account or a family member).
• Your overall withdrawal and deposit activity is "suspicious."
• Your name on your social security number does not match EXACTLY what is on your PayPal account (example: Social Security Card/Number is Robert Smith but your PayPal account name is Bob Smith).
• The name on your bank account or credit card does not MATCH exactly with the name on your PayPal account (example: William Smith vs. Will Smith or Bob Smith).
• There are an additional 100 plus fraud ques unknown to the general public that will trigger an unpleasant experience with PayPal.

Believe it or not, these are all reasons as to why PayPal can and will limit your account. With a limited or frozen PayPal account, you have NO access to your own money. There are many, many more reasons as to why PayPal will limit your account and deny you access to your money. Any number of things unknown to you or I can trigger such an event.

The reason why this is so disturbing is this: once your account is limited, you have a less than 10% chance of getting your account unlimited. That means less than a 10% chance of getting your account restored to its previous state -- because you made a mistake that you did not know was a mistake or PayPal accused you of something without having or offering any evidence as to your guilt. The simple whim of PayPal can destroy your business and your online reputation. The simple whim of PayPal can freeze access to funds that you need to support your family, pay bills, take that dream vacation or replace the busted tires on your car.

Most disturbing of all: PayPal does not need a reason to freeze your funds and limit your account. Remember, PayPal says in its User Agreement (that you agreed to) that it can limit and freeze your funds for "any reason." Maybe PayPal needs a large infusion of cash for whatever reason -- or a short term loan on your money. PayPal can freeze accounts on a mass level for no reason at all.

Restoring Your PayPal Account if It Has Been Limited

In the event that PayPal limits your account as a result of suspected fraud or other problem, you can restore it to its original, unrestricted state. If PayPal determines that you have been engaging in fraudulent or high-risk activity (such as selling fake merchandise or using stolen credit cards) or that you have not been abiding by the terms of the user agreement (e.g., you've been using PayPal to sell pornographic material or weapons), PayPal will impose limits on your account. Your account might also be limited if you initiate a bank transfer that then fails due to insufficient funds or if you accept a payment that is later disputed by its sender.

PayPal often limits the account's access to certain features, such as sending, withdrawing, or even receiving money. This helps protect any other PayPal users with whom you've been dealing and helps reduce subsequent losses that PayPal would otherwise have to incur.

You know that PayPal has limited your account when your Account Overview page has a pink box that says Account Access Limited. As you might expect, click the "Click here for details" link for an explanation. PayPal prides itself on being good at spotting high-risk behavior, but they also recognize that not all high-risk transactions are necessarily fraudulent or bad and not all disputes are the seller's fault. Thus, PayPal has an appeals process for those who have had their accounts limited.

Filing an Appeal

Needless to say, the best thing you can do if your account has been limited is to precisely follow the instructions on the web site and in the notification email you receive. Often, this entails completing a sequence of steps to provide PayPal with evidence of ownership of the PayPal account, ownership of the financials attached to the account, and verification of your own identity and address.

Only after you have completed all the required steps will a PayPal Account Review Representative review your account. For instance, if PayPal asks you to fax several documents, your account will not be reviewed until you submit all requested documents and have completed all the remaining steps.

In addition, make sure to double-check the email you received notifying you of your account's limited access, because the PayPal Account Review Representative might have added extra steps for you to complete that are not listed on the web site. For instance, if you are a seller on eBay, PayPal will likely request tracking information for items you've delivered and proof of inventory for additional items you're currently selling.

If you lose the email, you might not necessarily be able to find all the steps to complete on the PayPal web site; in this case, your best bet is to call PayPal. However, if you no longer have access to your email account, you might have bigger problems to deal with than just your limited account.

A Last Resort

If you're really in a bind and cannot complete the steps requested of you for legitimate reasons, you can always escalate your issue by writing a letter to a PayPal executive, contacting the Better Business Bureau, or working with a legal representative. Escalation in itself is not a guarantee that your issue will be resolved, but if your issue is legitimate, it is likely that a new pair of eyes, perhaps with more experience and background, will look at your issue and help reach a fair resolution.


Is There Life After PayPal?

Are there any alternatives out there today that are as "good" as PayPal?
When PayPal first launched back in 1999, it was obviously just about the only online payment transfer system set up that was actually backed by some serious venture capitalist and talented developers. In fact, in the beginning, PayPal was offering as much as $20 for people to sign up with them. Today, PayPal acts like they don't need your business at all.

Luckily, there are several viable alternatives to PayPal. Most of these viable PayPal alternatives came into existence because it was realized that there was a large pool of people who were dissatisfied with PayPal or there were people who simply could not use PayPal anymore due to the fact that their accounts will limited by PayPal. All of these people needed a place to go; all of these people still have money that they needed to send and money that they needed to receive. Inventive (and in some case opportunistic) entrepreneurs saw the need and attempted to fill the void with their own startups and services.

Over the years we've see several come and several go. Today, there are still several PayPal alternatives that started some time ago that are still with us today. They have grown, improved, and have gained a reputation for solid performance and customer service. There is "life after PayPal."

First, PayPal is where it is today as THE number one e-commerce solution because it was one of the first companies out there to offer the service that they do.
Second, PayPal ended up being a perfect fit for users of such popular and widely used services like eBay. This fact alone propelled PayPal to the number one spot. PayPal remains number one -- in spite of all their problems -- because they are being protected by eBay and because they are going through a phenomenal growth period where new users from around the world keep signing up on a daily basis. These new signups make up for the business lost by their horrible business practices.

PayPal -- the company -- is broken. The company shows no willingness to change its criminal and fraudulent behavior. In fact, any thing that has happened in the past five years to make PayPal a better company, have resulted only because of litigation (a court compelled PayPal to make changes). That is not the kind of company you can trust with your money. The NoPayPal Network is packed with good reasons as to why you should not use PayPal. PayPal is a company that you cannot rely on. We would be making a grave error in not offering alternatives to our members. Why? Because life goes on -- you go on. You still have to sell stuff or buy stuff on eBay, you still have to make a living and be able to send and receive money easily without a lot of hassles.
You have to do all of these things -- without PayPal.

I wish you all the best with Paypal, if you're their customer.
And wish you to solve all the problems as soon as possible, if you already have them.
Good luck.

General Stock Discussion / Re: Photaki - the next crook?
« on: February 09, 2016, 16:05 »
@Freepik, do you accept photos, icons or psd, png files from contributors also?
Thank you.

You actually want to send your work to these people...??!!!!

1. Just asking.
2. Long time ago (~8-10 years) I've uploaded about 1K images to Morguefile and to shc.hu, just to donate for free images that no one stock agency accepted: too small size or some other problems. Anyway they're sitting there and are being downloaded daily without any revenue to me.

General Stock Discussion / Re: Photaki - the next crook?
« on: February 09, 2016, 13:01 »
@Freepik, do you accept photos, icons or psd, png files from contributors also?
Thank you.

I sell them on the shutter videohive pound5 Deposit.
I can send to shutter videohive pound5 Deposit . :)

I don't trust someone who don't use comma between words.

General Stock Discussion / Re: Kelly Thompson to 500PX
« on: November 25, 2015, 22:37 »
Why some of my pics are with a watermark ( 500px ) and some are with no watermark  :-[

Because on some of your images you put on watermark and on some not.

For me it's enough three short things for agency to be perfect:

1. Accept my images.
2. Sell them.
3. Pay money.

What's the point of the best uploading engine if they reject photos?
What's the point of good keywording/preparing system and beautiful interface, if don't sell?

Of course, images' prices, payout minimum and some other things are worth to be discussed then ;)

General Stock Discussion / Re: Dreamstime are refusing to pay me
« on: November 16, 2015, 02:26 »
Always request payout first, get confirm of the transfer, then dump them.

Amen. It is simple as 2x2. No worries, no complaints. Case closed.
No, it's not as simple, for agencies paying automatically, once a month.
See the previous post.
Even if you close the account as soon as you get what you want to be your "last payment", you might still leave sales behind.

Mantis again told my words: you have to take care of your portfolio before finally close- get your earnings, then delete your photos. If they ask to leave your registration for a time, leave one worst image and... go on. We must know before entering that there will be some issues in the future with our money and/or images, so we should prepare for some losses. Of course, in the perfect world, in the perfect agency there could not be any losses but we live in a real, nonperfect world, so we must be very careful about all our property.

In fact, I know nothing about agencies where photog can't delete his photos, but I think that there is also wise decision not to run without earned money. I himself already finished with several agencies without any big losses, except a couple, where I left about $20 because I saw that I could not reach my payout minimum in my next 20 years. So no complains.

I assumed they'd pay me...

It is our common mistake: "we assumed". We should contact agency before, to read TOS, to take care of our money and images and when we're sure we did everything from our side, then click the "I'm leaving you, you f#@%in selfish agency!" button.

General Stock Discussion / Re: Dreamstime are refusing to pay me
« on: November 15, 2015, 19:42 »
Always request payout first, get confirm of the transfer, then dump them.

Amen. It is simple as 2x2. No worries, no complaints. Case closed.

General Stock Discussion / Re: my main concern on 500px
« on: November 04, 2015, 11:00 »
@chris thornton, you made just the same lame mistake as already many newcommers here did. You're telling us a [email protected] about 10k views and other tales. Just say, "we need an advertisement, please check our website".

General Stock Discussion / Re: 500px
« on: October 14, 2015, 18:30 »
I upgraded to Plus account mainly because of unlimited uploads, because I have no patience to upload only 20 pics a week. When I prepare a bunch of photos for sell, I can upload them all at once. Some statistics also is needful to analyze.

And I have no time to play these "community games": "I like you, you like me", "I commented, please you comment" etc. Though there a many good shots to enjoy and to learn from them, I rarely browse them and even more rarely comment. I just use this platform to expose and to sell my works.

General Stock Discussion / Re: 500px
« on: October 14, 2015, 11:09 »
How are sales there? It's on my list of sites to give way more attention to - beautiful work there. Just curious how they are doing with sales.

A few days ago one of my pictures has been sold and I got $105 netto. It will be my third payment. I have a Plus account so it already paid of. In general I'm fine with them, except watermark problem, still not solved.

Print on Demand Forum / Re: FineArt America and Google Images
« on: August 26, 2015, 06:49 »
if you sell your images to a site, then your copyright becomes site copyright

Really?  8)

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