Quote from: Level6 on January 09, 2022, 06:16

Quote from: Dumc on January 08, 2022, 16:26

Quote from: Level6 on January 08, 2022, 15:39

Quote from: DavidK on January 08, 2022, 13:45
Honestly, when were "the arts" ever really a viable career path?

Great point although before April 1 2019 happened I was making $140k to $160k/year when you added up my P5, SS, and videoblocks revenue, and I've read that others did much better in stock before the agencies cut pay and started doing direct deals with distributors and buyers leaving us with a few one-off sales.

Today though I would 1000% not recommend it, I think it's borderline fraud that the colleges and universities here still sell those programs as viable career opportunities, we have 16-17 year old high school students going to these career fairs and being told this is a great career opportunity.

Music was a career for some but now unless your big enough to tour you're paying to come to work with that you can make off Spotify, it's worse than stock video.

There's no money in it today, anything arts related but maybe it could be a side gig that pays once in awhile but not a job.

There's no money in free.

I just regret so much not getting out when April 1 2019 happened, could have got out debt free too.

First I have serious doubts that you can go from 160k per year to 0 per month overnight. Secondly, where did you spend all the money? Because those are big amounts. You certainly knew, that wont last forever, don't you have any savings?

Videoblocks closed to individual contributors, sales crashed at my #1 which was pond and SS was never that strong, I kept operating full tilt, upgraded equipment and put in a ton of hours, 18 hour days on the road filming and the upload/tag/repeat.

I didn't see April 1 2019 coming, sure nothing lasts forever but I didn't see warning signs until around March 15th when other contributors started saying sales stopped and the it hit me on April 1, keep in mind taxes, expenses and next thing you know I am pulling out the credit cards, I stayed in way to long thinking I could pull off a recovery and now it's not gonna recover, the market has changed too much, barely a hobby that pays now.

It sure was good while it lasted, was looking at the old tax returns for the paperwork I have to prepare and if definitely was good back then.

I have the same experience with P5, it was my best seller until April 2019 where income dropped from 1500 - 2000$ to 100$ and it's still the same until now. The worst is that I went exclusive at that date and put all my best sellers into my P5 account, and instead of getting more sales I've lost everything. After trying exclusivity for several months I went back to SS and it was a huge loss there as I lost all my videos ranking.
My average monthly income for last year: 100$ P5, 600$ SS(with fewer videos than P5), and 60$ at AS (no editorials which makes big difference)

Quote from: jjneff on January 11, 2022, 14:25
I don't submit to thieves so I could care less what level I am on!

You couldn't care less... i.e. it would not be possible for you to care any less, about what level you are on, than you do currently.

If not a wonder happens this will be my worst January at SS since 2004 and by a wide margin terrible!

Tier 2 benefits in reality = 1 extra cent

Quote from: Brasilnut on January 12, 2022, 11:35
Tier 2 benefits in reality = 1 extra cent

Tier 3 benefits in reality = 0 extra cents

(But these would probably have been 10 cents at every level. I am more worried about higher amount sales right now as that's where I am missing out more significant amounts of money.)

SS - $152 approaching level 4 but lots of $0.10
AS - $535 approaching a normal month

Quote from: Level6 on January 11, 2022, 01:14

Quote from: Dumc on January 09, 2022, 21:30
The woke mob, they see racism everywhere.

And much much more.....

Bye

I don't understand why people care about levels. Even on the highest level I still earn 10 cents per photo.

Quote from: angelawaye on January 12, 2022, 14:58
I don't understand why people care about levels. Even on the highest level I still earn 10 cents per photo.

I care about levels, because it makes a big difference to me whether I get 47$ for a SOD sale on level 1 or 160$ for the same sale on level 5. 
And since non-subscription sales are pretty much the only ones where you can make decent money on SS that makes leveling up even more important.

Quote from: angelawaye on January 12, 2022, 14:58
I don't understand why people care about levels. Even on the highest level I still earn 10 cents per photo.

True

Quote from: Firn on January 12, 2022, 15:11

Quote from: angelawaye on January 12, 2022, 14:58
I don't understand why people care about levels. Even on the highest level I still earn 10 cents per photo.

I care about levels, because it makes a big difference to me whether I get 47$ for a SOD sale on level 1 or 160$ for the same sale on level 5. 
And since non-subscription sales are pretty much the only ones where you can make decent money on SS that makes leveling up even more important.

True, But I think she mean we have 10 cent in any levels

Quote from: fotoroad on January 12, 2022, 15:15

Quote from: Firn on January 12, 2022, 15:11

Quote from: angelawaye on January 12, 2022, 14:58
I don't understand why people care about levels. Even on the highest level I still earn 10 cents per photo.

I care about levels, because it makes a big difference to me whether I get 47$ for a SOD sale on level 1 or 160$ for the same sale on level 5. 
And since non-subscription sales are pretty much the only ones where you can make decent money on SS that makes leveling up even more important.

True, But I think she mean we have 10 cent in any levels

Yes, of course we have, but she also said "I don't understand why people care about levels" and I explained why I cared about them.

Are OODs also dependant on levels?

Anyway very sucky month only subs, no SODs, no ODDs, with this pace I wont even reach payout limit, first time since 2014.

Quote from: Dumc on January 12, 2022, 15:44
Are OODs also dependant on levels?

Yes, all sales are.

Quote from: Firn on January 12, 2022, 15:11

Quote from: angelawaye on January 12, 2022, 14:58
I don't understand why people care about levels. Even on the highest level I still earn 10 cents per photo.

;)because it makes a big difference to me whether I get 47$ for a SOD sale on level 1 or 160$ for the same sale on level 5. 
And since non-subscription sales are pretty much the only ones where you can make decent money on SS that makes leveling up even more important.

Thanks Firn for setting the record straight. Somehow the level discussions here always go in circles 
I would also like to add that the higher subs are also increasing towards a dollar, which are now also still there.

I slipped into Level 3 yesterday and am already making significantly more revenue than I did with Adobe.

Quote from: Firn on January 12, 2022, 15:47

Quote from: Dumc on January 12, 2022, 15:44
Are OODs also dependant on levels?

Yes, all sales are.

Yes, right,  that's the point. For subs, levels are nearly irrelevant, but for other sales where we get commissions, levels make a difference.

I guess this needs to be posted again?



Where the trick is with the Subs is, most of the time, they are paying us more than the percentage, because there's a 10¢ minimum, and the price of the download is so low, that they have to give us more. Everything in the pink we get more money than the level percentage would have earned.



Example of a level 3 person and a sub from a 350 pack. The buyer pays 39 cents, level 3 gets 25% which would be .0975 so SSTK raises it to 10 cents. A level 1 same license sale, at 15% would earn us .0585 which forces SSTK to elevate the amount to 10 cents.

Please accept this as humor, but that means SSTK is losing money on every sale, when they have to pay us more than our promised commission, because of the guaranteed minimum. I feel so sad for their loss.

However if they charge a real value price for a download, then we get the level percentage.

And just think, the more 10c sales anyone gets, the faster we rise into a higher level! Exciting? Where we still get 10 cents, except the rare OD, SO and EL licenses.

Going for a higher level


What we really get for sub downloads

Quote from: HalfFull on January 12, 2022, 13:40
SS - $152 approaching level 4 but lots of $0.10
AS - $535 approaching a normal month

How many images and how many videos do you have in your portfolio? Your numbers are strong.

Quote from: Wilm on January 12, 2022, 17:24

Quote from: HalfFull on January 12, 2022, 13:40
SS - $152 approaching level 4 but lots of $0.10
AS - $535 approaching a normal month

How many images and how many videos do you have in your portfolio? Your numbers are strong.

AS - Images 16k - 2.5k Video
SS - Images 12k - 2.5k Video

I don't upload as much to SS now, much of my focus is on AS.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 12, 2022, 17:03

Quote from: Firn on January 12, 2022, 15:47

Quote from: Dumc on January 12, 2022, 15:44
Are OODs also dependant on levels?

Yes, all sales are.

Yes, right,  that's the point. For subs, levels are nearly irrelevant, but for other sales where we get commissions, levels make a difference.

I guess this needs to be posted again?



Where the trick is with the Subs is, most of the time, they are paying us more than the percentage, because there's a 10¢ minimum, and the price of the download is so low, that they have to give us more. Everything in the pink we get more money than the level percentage would have earned.



Example of a level 3 person and a sub from a 350 pack. The buyer pays 39 cents, level 3 gets 25% which would be .0975 so SSTK raises it to 10 cents. A level 1 same license sale, at 15% would earn us .0585 which forces SSTK to elevate the amount to 10 cents.

Please accept this as humor, but that means SSTK is losing money on every sale, when they have to pay us more than our promised commission, because of the guaranteed minimum. I feel so sad for their loss.

However if they charge a real value price for a download, then we get the level percentage.

And just think, the more 10c sales anyone gets, the faster we rise into a higher level! Exciting? Where we still get 10 cents, except the rare OD, SO and EL licenses.

Going for a higher level


What we really get for sub downloads

I think with the subs you have to remember that almost nobody uses their entire subscription. That is why back in the day when SS raised prices they would wait a month or 2 to see what the rates were and then have the new tiers (or whatever it was that got us to .25,.... to .38 per sub download. You better believe they weren't losing money even if they would have had the subscribers downloaded all they were allowed to. By changing things now they can charge less and still make a killing paying out .10 (or whatever pittance higher).

Quote from: HalfFull on January 12, 2022, 20:08

Quote from: Wilm on January 12, 2022, 17:24

Quote from: HalfFull on January 12, 2022, 13:40
SS - $152 approaching level 4 but lots of $0.10
AS - $535 approaching a normal month

How many images and how many videos do you have in your portfolio? Your numbers are strong.

AS - Images 16k - 2.5k Video
SS - Images 12k - 2.5k Video

I don't upload as much to SS now, much of my focus is on AS.

Sapphire? Emerald?

I'm getting closed to level 3 and 10 cent sales keep coming

Quote from: Wilm on January 12, 2022, 21:36

Quote from: HalfFull on January 12, 2022, 20:08

Quote from: Wilm on January 12, 2022, 17:24

Quote from: HalfFull on January 12, 2022, 13:40
SS - $152 approaching level 4 but lots of $0.10
AS - $535 approaching a normal month

How many images and how many videos do you have in your portfolio? Your numbers are strong.

AS - Images 16k - 2.5k Video
SS - Images 12k - 2.5k Video

I don't upload as much to SS now, much of my focus is on AS.

Sapphire? Emerald?

That's a blast from the past. I had to check... a couple of k of Sapphire.

2 sales before level 3 I get an EL, I know its only a few bucks but I can't help thinking we are screwed at every opportunity.

Quote from: pancaketom on January 12, 2022, 21:06

I think with the subs you have to remember that almost nobody uses their entire subscription. That is why back in the day when SS raised prices they would wait a month or 2 to see what the rates were and then have the new tiers (or whatever it was that got us to .25,.... to .38 per sub download. You better believe they weren't losing money even if they would have had the subscribers downloaded all they were allowed to. By changing things now they can charge less and still make a killing paying out .10 (or whatever pittance higher).

Yes, I knew someone would point that out. But we don't really know if someone is so stupid that they use 200 images a month and buy the 750 plan or do they actually pay attention and buy the 350 plan? And I ask myself, who uses 750 subscription images a month or who's willing to pay $199 a month for up to 350 images a month? Why? For what?

Now using some reverse accounting, we get mostly 10c downloads, yet at level 4 we should be getting 12,14,17 from the 350 packs or 15 and 19 from the team packs. But what are most of the downloads credited as? 10¢ Meaning to me, that the majority of the downloads and uses are from someone paying $199 a month for up to 350 DLs, single seat, paid in advance - annually.

Anyway, right, we don't know if someone is paying $199 and only downloading 50 images, but we also don't know if someone is pay $199 and download 350 images. Do We?

So as a joke, SSTK does lose money when they pay us more than our percentage, based on that percentage promise. But also that means they were losing even more money paying us 38 cents when the sub packs cost the same $199 for years. We were getting 400% commission on some of these sales, in the past.

I'm not arguing in their defense, just trying to point out what buyers are paying and what we get. 15%, or the other levels, is a fake number that SSTK dangles in front of us, but for subs it's meaningless. The percentage is only relevant for OD, SO and ELs, or anything else that's not a sub. And most of us don't get much of that activity anymore.

Quote from: Uncle Pete on January 13, 2022, 17:11
...But we don't really know if someone is so stupid that they use 200 images a month and buy the 750 plan or do they actually pay attention and buy the 350 plan? And I ask myself, who uses 750 subscription images a month or who's willing to pay $199 a month for up to 350 images a month? Why? For what?...

As with all the agencies, we don't really know anything about who's downloading what. We have to trust them.

However, the very likely source of unused downloads is corporate buyers where the people who handle the budget want to be able to allocate a sum to cover all the needs without any further requests for money from one department or another. During vacation-heavy seasons - spring break, summer, "the holidays" - there will be low usage of the annual subscriptions such organizations probably buy.

Shutterstock's VP of Finance pointed out early in the pandemic how well SS did from unused subscriptions - money coming in but no royalties to pay - so it really does happen even now. Way back when, Jon Oringer was direct about wanting to see how download patterns changed after a price increase before increasing our royalty amount per subscription. But that was when it was still 25 a day - which gave them a built-in buffer of weekends with few or no downloads.

The other factor to consider is discounts - amounts below the posted price offered to entice a would-be-departing customer to stay or a new one to subscribe. All the agencies do that (look at your Adobe Stock subscription amounts to see discounted royalties from the nominal $3.30, $0.99, $0.66 amounts). Shutterstock can now afford to discount much more heavily than when they had that 38 cent royalty to consider...