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Author Topic: Something very bad happened to the algorithm today  (Read 8426 times)

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« on: March 30, 2022, 12:55 »
0
The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.


SVH

« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2022, 14:28 »
+1
The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.
So you upload your photos on a American stocksite and you decide (because you are given the option to do so) to keyword in the German language. That was a fault to begin with. Always use English keywords and place native words if that would help sales in your own country or other ones (with their specific words).

« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2022, 15:14 »
+1
You misunderstood. I do keyword in English. In the old Fotolia days it was recommended to do it in your local language and it did work great. Didn't I say I'm talking about images with thousands of sales? Those were translated into English until yesterday, but not anymore.

SVH

« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2022, 15:32 »
0
You misunderstood. I do keyword in English. In the old Fotolia days it was recommended to do it in your local language and it did work great. Didn't I say I'm talking about images with thousands of sales? Those were translated into English until yesterday, but not anymore.
Unless most of your buyers come from Germany then keywording in German is a waste of time. Translation, as good as it gets, will most of the time not work. So therefore it would have been wise to keyword in English, even back then. But unfortunately Adobe will not show you where your photo was bought. It might be Germany, Russia or Zimbabwe. You will never know :)

« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2022, 17:04 »
+1
The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.

I have not been made aware of any changes to the system recently.

-Mat

« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2022, 00:42 »
+17
The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.
So you upload your photos on a American stocksite and you decide (because you are given the option to do so) to keyword in the German language. That was a fault to begin with. Always use English keywords and place native words if that would help sales in your own country or other ones (with their specific words).

A contributor reports a site problem and you decide to dump on (and lecture) him for doing something that Fotolia encouraged at the time - how is that helpful or informative, let alone kind?

At the time (Fotolia started in 2005) it was a leader in delivering content to buyers with sites in their own language where payments could be made in local currency. Fotolia let buyers search in their native language and contributors submit in theirs and the site handled all the translations. It was innovative (and then copied by all the other sites). It wasn't a "fault" for contributors to support them in doing what they asked.

You really don't know what you're talking about.

« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2022, 01:17 »
+3
The algorithm apparently changed a huge deal today, at least for me. My older files from the Fotolia times are keyworded in German, the newer ones in English. Now when I search for something, the translation doesn't work anymore. It means that my older, all times best sellers are not even considered by the search when the buyer uses an English keyword. This wans't the case until yesterday, because I happened to check something and it worked fine. Now even if I sort by downloads, any best seller with thousands of DLs is just not there. Can anybody run some tests and confirm this? Mat from Adobe, can you help please? I really hope something is temporarily wrong and this is not intentional. Thanks.
So you upload your photos on a American stocksite and you decide (because you are given the option to do so) to keyword in the German language. That was a fault to begin with. Always use English keywords and place native words if that would help sales in your own country or other ones (with their specific words).

Jo Ann is right - your statement is incorrect.

In the past, Fotolia was very strongly focused on the Central European market.

For contributors whose images were recognizably from the German-speaking area and thus also appealed very strongly to German-speaking customers, it was important to use German keywords because the translation software from English to German did not work very well.
So if you had German cities or German architecture in your portfolio, for example, you were well advised to use German keywords. This is a historical fact, which was also very often discussed in the Fotolia forum at that time.

« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2022, 02:14 »
+2
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2022, 09:45 »
+1
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat
« Last Edit: March 31, 2022, 09:47 by MatHayward »

SVH

« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2022, 12:56 »
0
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

Everybody seems to be a bit touchy over here :)
However I noticed that Adobe does not always do a good job in translating your search terms. As, I assume most clients, would search therefore in the English language (to get a better result) I would say it's better to basically add English keywords and, if something is really specific, also add the native words. But maybe that is what you are saying as well but in a different way.

So for the German festival 'Oktoberfest', I would certainly add this word because if you would search under 'October feast' or 'October party' you get something totally different, namely Halloween.

But what do I know, other people seem to know better :)

« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2022, 14:28 »
+2
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

Everybody seems to be a bit touchy over here :)
However I noticed that Adobe does not always do a good job in translating your search terms. As, I assume most clients, would search therefore in the English language (to get a better result) I would say it's better to basically add English keywords and, if something is really specific, also add the native words. But maybe that is what you are saying as well but in a different way.

So for the German festival 'Oktoberfest', I would certainly add this word because if you would search under 'October feast' or 'October party' you get something totally different, namely Halloween.

But what do I know, other people seem to know better :)


No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.

SVH

« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2022, 15:28 »
0
No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.
I'm a simple person. So you are a contributor signing up with an american company, you want to sell your photos worldwide. Right? You are given a choice to put your keywords in English or your native language. Which language would you choose? I would go for English. But you apparently do not. That's fine, I am very much pro-choice, but don't complain later that your keywords are not translated correctly.

« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2022, 16:22 »
0
No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.
I'm a simple person. So you are a contributor signing up with an american company, you want to sell your photos worldwide. Right? You are given a choice to put your keywords in English or your native language. Which language would you choose? I would go for English. But you apparently do not. That's fine, I am very much pro-choice, but don't complain later that your keywords are not translated correctly.

What was your experience with fotolia? Did you use english keywords? Was that successful?

And where are you from and what do you offer?

SVH

« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2022, 16:40 »
0
No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.
I'm a simple person. So you are a contributor signing up with an american company, you want to sell your photos worldwide. Right? You are given a choice to put your keywords in English or your native language. Which language would you choose? I would go for English. But you apparently do not. That's fine, I am very much pro-choice, but don't complain later that your keywords are not translated correctly.

What was your experience with fotolia? Did you use english keywords? Was that successful?

And where are you from and what do you offer?

I offer my photos to stock companies, which most of them are based in the United States and I tend to sell my photos world wide. What do you offer? And no, I was never never with fotolia but is that really important? Was fotolia German and had only a german market to begin with? In that case I retract my words but I don't think it was :)

« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2022, 17:03 »
0
No, SVH, no one is touchy here.

It's that you wrote that Sandeel made a mistake because he didn't keyword in English. And this statement is not correct for contributors who started at Fotolia. Many extremely successful German fotolians wrote exclusively with German keywords. They have - of course - also tried keywording in English several times. It worked. But it worked much worse than the German keywording.

How successful Sandeel was or is, I can not judge. But to simply accuse him/her of a mistake without knowing the history has been criticized by us. That's all we wanted to say.

As far as specific terms are concerned, such as Oktoberfest, Halloween, Christkindlsmarkt, Bratwurst, blue jeans and so on, you are of course right.
I'm a simple person. So you are a contributor signing up with an american company, you want to sell your photos worldwide. Right? You are given a choice to put your keywords in English or your native language. Which language would you choose? I would go for English. But you apparently do not. That's fine, I am very much pro-choice, but don't complain later that your keywords are not translated correctly.

What was your experience with fotolia? Did you use english keywords? Was that successful?

And where are you from and what do you offer?

I offer my photos to stock companies, which most of them are based in the United States and I tend to sell my photos world wide. What do you offer? And no, I was never never with fotolia but is that really important? Was fotolia German and had only a german market to begin with? In that case I retract my words but I don't think it was :)

First of all: I keyword everywhere in english.

Only fotolia was different. I repeat myself. At that time the translation software was not very good.

The most successful providers came from Germany, followed by Russia, Ukraine and - at a clear distance - the USA. Istock and shutterstock were particularly successful in the USA, and fotolia was king in the European market. Fotolia tried to take international market share from the other agencies, for example, through the Dollarphotoclub, but it didn't work. Only the takeover by Adobe changed that.

As Jo Ann has already written, it was advisable (and also recommended) to use the local language for keywords at fotolia if the image material could be clearly assigned to one's own region.

And that is exactly what Sandeel did at that time.

Since you were not present at fotolia, you lack this knowledge. That is completely okay. But because you don't know how it was, your criticism was just not okay.

It didn't matter where fotolia's corporate headquarters were located. It did matter where the money was to be made. And the market outside the USA played a very important role.

I hope that it is now understandable. Today is today - there were other factors back then.

SVH

« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2022, 17:16 »
0
First of all: I keyword everywhere in english.

Only fotolia was different. I repeat myself. At that time the translation software was not very good.

The most successful providers came from Germany, followed by Russia, Ukraine and - at a clear distance - the USA. Istock and shutterstock were particularly successful in the USA, and fotolia was king in the European market. Fotolia tried to take international market share from the other agencies, for example, through the Dollarphotoclub, but it didn't work. Only the takeover by Adobe changed that.

As Jo Ann has already written, it was advisable (and also recommended) to use the local language for keywords at fotolia if the image material could be clearly assigned to one's own region.

And that is exactly what Sandeel did at that time.

Since you were not present at fotolia, you lack this knowledge. That is completely okay. But because you don't know how it was, your criticism was just not okay.

It didn't matter where fotolia's corporate headquarters were located. It did matter where the money was to be made. And the market outside the USA played a very important role.

I hope that it is now understandable. Today is today - there were other factors back then.

Yes, I do lack knowledge of the days back then. But if I understand correctly, from your words, translation was poor so people were aiming for the german market then, right? Otherwise people (in general, not you personally) would not have added german keywords. And now they complain that the international (English language) market doesn't see their photos with the german keywords. I am completely lost here what you are trying to say.

« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2022, 17:41 »
+3
@SVH
How does any of your replies in any way help the issue that I brought up in this topic? First I was talking about a search problem that fortunately was only temporary. It is obviously not in Adobe's interest that the whole translation tool stops working altogether.

As Wilm explained correctly and patiently, we were doing just fine in the German market, because back then Fotolia worked very country-specific. There was a "Fotolia Germany". We didn't know that one day the country-based algorithm would be changed drastically. One thing that still bothers me is that when a buyer looks at one of my images with english keywords, my old images that were keyworded in German do not show under it, nor do they if you click on "see more". Ande vice versa, when they look at an old best seller not a single new image is shown under it. In this regard each language is treated like a separate portfolio. I don't know if it's just imperfection or a deliberate decision, but it's not something that we were bargaining for. But anyway, please stop saying we are supposed to keyword in English, because as we repeatedly said we are doing it and you are not adding anything that we don't know. Thanks.

« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2022, 07:42 »
+1
First of all: I keyword everywhere in english.

Only fotolia was different. I repeat myself. At that time the translation software was not very good.

The most successful providers came from Germany, followed by Russia, Ukraine and - at a clear distance - the USA. Istock and shutterstock were particularly successful in the USA, and fotolia was king in the European market. Fotolia tried to take international market share from the other agencies, for example, through the Dollarphotoclub, but it didn't work. Only the takeover by Adobe changed that.

As Jo Ann has already written, it was advisable (and also recommended) to use the local language for keywords at fotolia if the image material could be clearly assigned to one's own region.

And that is exactly what Sandeel did at that time.

Since you were not present at fotolia, you lack this knowledge. That is completely okay. But because you don't know how it was, your criticism was just not okay.

It didn't matter where fotolia's corporate headquarters were located. It did matter where the money was to be made. And the market outside the USA played a very important role.

I hope that it is now understandable. Today is today - there were other factors back then.

Yes, I do lack knowledge of the days back then. But if I understand correctly, from your words, translation was poor so people were aiming for the german market then, right? Otherwise people (in general, not you personally) would not have added german keywords. And now they complain that the international (English language) market doesn't see their photos with the german keywords. I am completely lost here what you are trying to say.

Reading the conversation it was you that piled in telling someone off. It really doesn't matter what your intention or impression is of what you wrote you are patently wrong. The OP has explained repeatedly that they are successful doing it their way and suddenly the system altered the way its search system gives results. It changed how the OPs images were found. Now it has reverted partially. The OP was asking for help in resolving this. They were not asking how to best keyword their images. The company may be American which is irrelevant as the customers are world wide. It is a warehouse of photos which doesn't have a base and floats around the Internet for all to find. The OPs images appear to sell well in Germany and are found via the German keywording. Enough that they feel they have done well.

If you are completely lost I would suggest it is because you do NOT appear to read posts correctly before you are thumping at your keyboard. Further, despite others more knowledgeable than you attempting to explain it to you, you are still pushing your ridiculous point.

Floating warehouse full of crap that people around the world can buy.

It may be an American warehouse but it isnt in America. Its in cyberspace and it sure as crap doesn't contain only American crap.

« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2022, 18:00 »
+2
Thank you Lowls.

Regarding the algorithm, I observed several changes these past two days, I suppose that's what it looks like when they tweak things a bit. Now it is back to something similar to what it was before, but images got shuffled a bit, so that some old sellers that had been rather forgotten started selling again, but some great sellers got pushed back in the search results. My download numbers remained average except for the day I started this thread, when there was an unusual drop.

Something that I noticed is that when you choose a sorting like "relevance", "featured" or "downloads", it stays saved. I seem to remember that it wasn't the case before and it always jumped back to relevance. I hope this gives newer images a better chance.

« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2022, 10:22 »
0
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent.

But do NOT do it for countries, which are not supported by Adobe anymore like all poor countries especially Moslem countries. So even your travel photos from Turkey will not appear in any search, if the customer does not change the regiion on the very bottom of the page - where nobody will find it and usually nobody knows about it.

@Matt: This time you will answer?
(Sorry, but it hurts me each time again when i read about this region selection which IS discriminating!)

« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2022, 06:55 »
0
As expected: No answer from Matt :'(

« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2022, 15:06 »
+1
another anomaly - when i submit vintage 18th c maps that i've processed, adobe consistently rejects them, saying i need a property release - but when i submit different maps from the same collection thru WS adobe accepts them!

« Reply #22 on: April 12, 2022, 15:24 »
0
another anomaly - if you upload a vector editorial trademark (once approved) in the search engine of the site, the image corresponding to that trademark does not appear, as if deleting the keywords with the brand name. I got confirmation using https://imstocker.com/ [nofollow] What sense to accept editorial vector logos if they then delete the keywords with the brand name, how do buyers find these images

« Reply #23 on: April 12, 2022, 17:38 »
0
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent.

But do NOT do it for countries, which are not supported by Adobe anymore like all poor countries especially Moslem countries. So even your travel photos from Turkey will not appear in any search, if the customer does not change the regiion on the very bottom of the page - where nobody will find it and usually nobody knows about it.

@Matt: This time you will answer?
(Sorry, but it hurts me each time again when i read about this region selection which IS discriminating!)

It sounds like you are misunderstanding the way search works. If you upload a photo taken in Turkey and you are in Turkey, there is a chance you would not see this image in search depending on the subject matter of the image. However, the image would still be available in most other countries and can be sold.

-Mat

« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2022, 02:33 »
+1


In the past, Fotolia was very strongly focused on the Central European market.

For contributors whose images were recognizably from the German-speaking area and thus also appealed very strongly to German-speaking customers, it was important to use German keywords because the translation software from English to German did not work very well.

And Fotolia photos are still used a lot these days. Whenever I get a new book I look up where the pictures come from and even books published in 2022 still use "Fotolia" credits.....
And the translation is indeed often rubbish when I see my own pics translated from english to german. And place names with "", "", "" are nearly unstranslateble. I always look up the english name for a place like that but you can bet lots of german buyers (who dont speak english) will not find that place. So I also use "oe" and "ae" and "ue" but thats very uncommon in german to do.


 

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