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Author Topic: Something very bad happened to the algorithm today  (Read 8441 times)

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« Reply #25 on: April 23, 2022, 06:19 »
0
Thank you Jo Ann and Wilm. I was in fact doing very well in the German market and whenever I tried english keywords it didn't do well at all in the algorithm, because international buyers were more likely to be shown images from their own currency's area. That was changed with Adobe.

Back to the problem: thanks Mat, but right now it has completely changed again. The translation is working again, which is good, but the algorithm was obviously radically changed. For keywords to which I had several images on the first page, I now have none. I think they are tweaking things right now and hope it will become better than it was before.

Again, I can't speak to the algorithm here as I'm not aware of any changes, however I can say that if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent. If the region is irrelevant to the content and you are fluent in English, then index in English and allow the translator to do its job. If however, you find that you need to use Google translate or are uncertain about your English fluency, you should always index in your primary language.

-Mat

if your content is region specific, such as travel, cuisine or tradition, you should add metadata in the local language assuming you are fluent.

But do NOT do it for countries, which are not supported by Adobe anymore like all poor countries especially Moslem countries. So even your travel photos from Turkey will not appear in any search, if the customer does not change the regiion on the very bottom of the page - where nobody will find it and usually nobody knows about it.

@Matt: This time you will answer?
(Sorry, but it hurts me each time again when i read about this region selection which IS discriminating!)

It sounds like you are misunderstanding the way search works. If you upload a photo taken in Turkey and you are in Turkey, there is a chance you would not see this image in search depending on the subject matter of the image. However, the image would still be available in most other countries and can be sold.

-Mat

First of all THANK YOU for your first reply, Matt!
Joe Ann and others did their research and wrote about their search experiences in this case. So, I do not get, what you, Matt, write about the search results.
Do you mean that, if logged in in Turkey, Trukey related images are much more showing up than for example in the USA? And that is the reason that our Trukey related images might not appear. Or they appear, but because of to many from that subject, they will be not shown up in the top? With other words: If I am logged in in the USA and search for Turkey related images, then my images might showing up much higher in ranking?
What I (and many in the past already either) not understand, WHY MUST BE there a difference?
But I stop asking about this, because it makes no sense.


« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2022, 02:14 »
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Well whatever Adobe did they did something. I had a slowly increasing portfolio. And slowly increasing sales. Then end of March my last, a sale of just over 1 which was happening more often.

And then sales died. And when I say died. I mean zero since
March 26th. Not a single sale.

Shutterstock sales however have been growing slowly and regularly.

So whatever Adobe did despite claims to the contrary something has changed.

« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2022, 06:21 »
+1
It could depend on your content. No sales since March 26th could be caused by to few images online.
Or your best sellers are gone zero.
In my experience 80% of my sales are caused by about 10% of my images.
If there are some seasonal images in your portfolio could also cause a drop in sales.
I only have images at Adobe online, so i can't compare. But i can see no difference in sales.
 

« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2022, 14:40 »
0
It could depend on your content. No sales since March 26th could be caused by to few images online.
Or your best sellers are gone zero.
In my experience 80% of my sales are caused by about 10% of my images.
If there are some seasonal images in your portfolio could also cause a drop in sales.
I only have images at Adobe online, so i can't compare. But i can see no difference in sales.

exactly - it's all too common here for someone with low sales to automatically blame the agency.  like you, myAS sales have been steady over the last 2 years, w month  to month variations.  a small portfolio will likely have more drastic ups & downs

« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2022, 14:58 »
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Well there is a few assumptions there, I of course get your point.
I have a small portfolio of 500+ images. About 200 are new. 1 year old or younger. 40 videos 4k.

Many of my images are on page 1 of thousands. A few are at the top of page one. And two are No.1 on page 1 never sold but been there for several months.

But as I know very little of the inner workings I also know you don't either. But dribbling increasing sales over normall dead periods with increasing port size shouldn't stop dead for a month.

« Reply #30 on: April 24, 2022, 15:01 »
+1
April is also worse for me at AS than March. But that has always been the case over the years. I can't see any change in the algorithm.

Regarding the downloads, it is about 10% less in April in the same period. In terms of revenue, I have a minus of about 25%. But that is probably more due to coincidence. Probably I had significantly more enhanced licenses in March.

« Reply #31 on: April 24, 2022, 16:17 »
+2
April will be my best month this year, so if they really changed something, it was in my favor. But nothing lasts forever, I don't dare to be optimistic.

« Reply #32 on: April 24, 2022, 16:37 »
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Interesting Wilm thank you. If you have noticed April is down then on a port as small as mine this could translate. Thanks again.

« Reply #33 on: April 24, 2022, 20:34 »
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April is also worse for me at AS than March. But that has always been the case over the years. I can't see any change in the algorithm.

Regarding the downloads, it is about 10% less in April in the same period. In terms of revenue, I have a minus of about 25%. But that is probably more due to coincidence. Probably I had significantly more enhanced licenses in March.
my port isn't affected by month - there are ups & downs, but they average out - which why a 35-month running average is more appropriate to such a stochastic process as ms sales(even more so for small portfolios- cf law of small numbers); and worse,  we don't have detailed reporting from the agencies to create a statistically significant result, so individual anecdotes can't explain varying results

« Reply #34 on: April 25, 2022, 01:36 »
+1
April is also worse for me at AS than March. But that has always been the case over the years. I can't see any change in the algorithm.

Regarding the downloads, it is about 10% less in April in the same period. In terms of revenue, I have a minus of about 25%. But that is probably more due to coincidence. Probably I had significantly more enhanced licenses in March.
my port isn't affected by month - there are ups & downs, but they average out - which why a 35-month running average is more appropriate to such a stochastic process as ms sales(even more so for small portfolios- cf law of small numbers); and worse,  we don't have detailed reporting from the agencies to create a statistically significant result, so individual anecdotes can't explain varying results

AS is the only agency where, for over 10 years, March has always been the best month of the year and April has always been significantly worse - for whatever reason. December is always my worst month there. My portfolio there is actually relatively small (about 1450 files by now). In fotolia times I had emerald status. Whether that is enough for a personal statistical statement, you may judge for yourself.

With all other agencies, there are actually no recognizable regularities for me, as far as monthly revenues and downloads are concerned.

« Reply #35 on: April 25, 2022, 01:42 »
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April is also worse for me at AS than March. But that has always been the case over the years. I can't see any change in the algorithm.

Regarding the downloads, it is about 10% less in April in the same period. In terms of revenue, I have a minus of about 25%. But that is probably more due to coincidence. Probably I had significantly more enhanced licenses in March.
my port isn't affected by month - there are ups & downs, but they average out - which why a 35-month running average is more appropriate to such a stochastic process as ms sales(even more so for small portfolios- cf law of small numbers); and worse,  we don't have detailed reporting from the agencies to create a statistically significant result, so individual anecdotes can't explain varying results

Therefore you meant to say it cannot explain it to you. With the data you have available to you.

You cannot speak for others logically because you do not have enough data from them to understand their findings, anecdotally or otherwise.

Wilms post however makes perfect sense given information I have about my port, that you do not. Other than that your anecdotal opinion had some useful views. Thank you.

« Reply #36 on: April 25, 2022, 10:10 »
+3
Changed algorithm means changed, not better for everyone or worse for everyone. Some images are moved further back, some are brought to the fore. That's what definitely happened. My sales are about the same as before, but there was a shift in WHAT sells. Some older best sellers were brought back from the dead and some other best sellers were disfavored. I had regularly checked the results for at least one very major keyword and I see different results on the first three pages since April, I mean all results, not just my own.

Also you can notice any algorithm changes if you go to your own portfolio and search for a keyword within it. The order that you see there is exactly how they appear in the main site's search. For example let's say you search for "flower" in your port and see image x at the top and then image y. Then you go to the main site and search for flower. Image x will be the first of your own images that you will find and image y will be the second, and so on. That's a fact, it was 100% and steadily confirmed for me, without any exceptions. Now if the algorithm changes, the sorting of your own images will suddenly be all over the place, and that's what happened.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2022, 10:14 by Sandeel »

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #37 on: April 26, 2022, 11:16 »
0
Changed algorithm means changed, not better for everyone or worse for everyone. Some images are moved further back, some are brought to the fore. That's what definitely happened. My sales are about the same as before, but there was a shift in WHAT sells. Some older best sellers were brought back from the dead and some other best sellers were disfavored. I had regularly checked the results for at least one very major keyword and I see different results on the first three pages since April, I mean all results, not just my own.

Also you can notice any algorithm changes if you go to your own portfolio and search for a keyword within it. The order that you see there is exactly how they appear in the main site's search. For example let's say you search for "flower" in your port and see image x at the top and then image y. Then you go to the main site and search for flower. Image x will be the first of your own images that you will find and image y will be the second, and so on. That's a fact, it was 100% and steadily confirmed for me, without any exceptions. Now if the algorithm changes, the sorting of your own images will suddenly be all over the place, and that's what happened.

Ah, so you are saying, someone shuffled the deck and dealt our new image ranks, in a different order. Interesting.

So that whole thing in the multiple webinars and files, and advice, about the rank being set in the first 30 days, isn't true anymore?

« Reply #38 on: April 26, 2022, 11:58 »
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Ah, so you are saying, someone shuffled the deck and dealt our new image ranks, in a different order. Interesting.

So that whole thing in the multiple webinars and files, and advice, about the rank being set in the first 30 days, isn't true anymore?

I don't know anything about the first 30 days, I must have missed that piece of info. What's up with that?

« Reply #39 on: April 26, 2022, 12:02 »
+1
When I take a closer look at the downloads of the last days, I have to admit that the OP might be right.

I have over 30 downloads in April of files that have not sold for years. Some of them are from my first Fotolia days. This can't really be in the interest of AS, because
- the ancient vectors had to be uploaded as svg back then, and are therefore today partly hardly editable in Illustrator
- the old photos are in quite low resolution and moderate quality

« Reply #40 on: April 26, 2022, 13:52 »
+1
True. They absolutely do not know how to sell the good stuff.

New images hardly ever take off, and if one does, it is killed after 2-3 weeks. For example I recently landed one that sold 60 times in 3 weeks, and that inludes the time it took to climb to the top of page one, then it was selling 4-5 times a day. Now today all of a sudden it was thrown back not a little, but to the bloody midfield, into nothingness. It is good stuff, and some of the images that I have at the top never ever performed all that well. There's no logic in that. New images are not given a fair chance at all.

« Reply #41 on: April 26, 2022, 15:01 »
0
Just checked the one of mine that's sat at the No.1 page 1 slot for a few months and it's slipped to No.2. Never sold. In fact I've had 4 on page 1 for probably a year now and none have sold. And a 5th has joined page 1 which is only a week old. That's out of 2000 images. No.1 don't mean sales I guess. Though if it dropped and bounced back up to 1 like it does, why does it bounce back up?

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #42 on: April 26, 2022, 19:00 »
0
When I take a closer look at the downloads of the last days, I have to admit that the OP might be right.

I have over 30 downloads in April of files that have not sold for years. Some of them are from my first Fotolia days. This can't really be in the interest of AS, because
- the ancient vectors had to be uploaded as svg back then, and are therefore today partly hardly editable in Illustrator
- the old photos are in quite low resolution and moderate quality

Well there are at least two versions of this right now and other observations. If some of mine that were down pages, are suddenly pushed forward, whether it's a re-shuffle, seasonal, promotion of specific topics that are more popular right now, OK with me. I mean, if I get more downloads from images that didn't before and less from some that have been making money, and the money is the same, OK all the better for exposure.

We can only hope that Mat knows something or can get an answer and maybe tell us something about what's going on?

Ah, so you are saying, someone shuffled the deck and dealt our new image ranks, in a different order. Interesting.

So that whole thing in the multiple webinars and files, and advice, about the rank being set in the first 30 days, isn't true anymore?

I don't know anything about the first 30 days, I must have missed that piece of info. What's up with that?

There were two webinars, one on search and one on Keywording best practices. Plus Mat has reinforced the same advice here on the forum. Images get ranked during the first 30 days of their time online. According to the video, after that, changing words will not change a rank, but the words will be found in a search of course.

See if you can find the threads about the webinars and there are some discussions and Q&A plus a summary of what was said. Or maybe find the Webinar and watch it, pretty interesting and potentially useful advice.

« Reply #43 on: April 27, 2022, 11:19 »
0
Actually i don't check my images at Adobe Stock. I even do no stock statistics any more.
The statistic site at Adobe Stock is doing well for me.
As far i can say, i see no much difference at Adobe Stock on average DL and $$. Everything seems OK. Though i don't care about what images are selling. Maybe there have been a change, i don't know.
There are some images from 2011 to 2022. All are good enough to sell from time to time.


SVH

« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2022, 13:35 »
0
Actually i don't check my images at Adobe Stock. I even do no stock statistics any more.
The statistic site at Adobe Stock is doing well for me.
As far i can say, i see no much difference at Adobe Stock on average DL and $$. Everything seems OK. Though i don't care about what images are selling. Maybe there have been a change, i don't know.
There are some images from 2011 to 2022. All are good enough to sell from time to time.


So you don't check and you don't care if you sell something or not. Weird way of trying to sell photos, through microstock :)

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #45 on: April 27, 2022, 15:57 »
0
Ah, so you are saying, someone shuffled the deck and dealt our new image ranks, in a different order. Interesting.

So that whole thing in the multiple webinars and files, and advice, about the rank being set in the first 30 days, isn't true anymore?

I don't know anything about the first 30 days, I must have missed that piece of info. What's up with that?

Sorry about the repeat, but I wanted this to show as new for you.  :) Happy watching or at least you have the threads now.

https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stock-search-webinar/   Search Webinar

https://www.microstockgroup.com/fotolia-com/adobe-stock-indexing-webinar-tuesday-september-17/  Indexing and Keywords.

1) Images initially get ranked by customer response during the first 30 days. Your keywords and title are most important during that time.

2) After 30 days, changing the keywords or order, will not have much effect on image rank, from the customers. There are other factors that still can move an image up or down.

3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

4) Categories are not very important




« Reply #46 on: April 27, 2022, 16:35 »
0
Actually i don't check my images at Adobe Stock. I even do no stock statistics any more.
The statistic site at Adobe Stock is doing well for me.
As far i can say, i see no much difference at Adobe Stock on average DL and $$. Everything seems OK. Though i don't care about what images are selling. Maybe there have been a change, i don't know.
There are some images from 2011 to 2022. All are good enough to sell from time to time.

It's a bit like that for me, too. I can't see any changes in the downloads and revenue. I had already written that. It is then just struck me that there could have been a change in the algorithm, because of the more older images that are suddenly bought again. For this it is then probably a few less sales of newer images.

« Reply #47 on: April 27, 2022, 16:40 »
0
Actually i don't check my images at Adobe Stock. I even do no stock statistics any more.
The statistic site at Adobe Stock is doing well for me.
As far i can say, i see no much difference at Adobe Stock on average DL and $$. Everything seems OK. Though i don't care about what images are selling. Maybe there have been a change, i don't know.
There are some images from 2011 to 2022. All are good enough to sell from time to time.


So you don't check and you don't care if you sell something or not. Weird way of trying to sell photos, through microstock :)

You don't have to bother with statistics if the sales figures are okay. As long as you sell as much as usual, it's not mandatory, is it?

I myself always find the statistics interesting. But it's not absolutely necessary as long as everything is going well.

« Reply #48 on: April 27, 2022, 17:04 »
0
3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

Well that is either incorrect or outdated or both. You cannot put concept ideas in keywords. I mean I know its obvious you should and only a halfwit would think you shouldn't but it isnt permitted.
E.g you cannot have a photograph of just a tray of bulbs (plants) and use keywords like gardening, borders, flower bed, planting, etc. Although invoking words that are clearly linked to the image or conceptually linked you cannot use them.

Keywords are: type what you see.

A duck nestling in a clump of grass cannot have pond as a keyword if a pond is not visible.

The rule is so ambiguous as to be moronic but there we are.

Uncle Pete

  • Great Place by a Great Lake - My Home Port
« Reply #49 on: April 28, 2022, 09:05 »
0
3) Adding detailed information, location, keywords or concept word combinations, will still help get an image found. Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable.

Well that is either incorrect or outdated or both. You cannot put concept ideas in keywords. I mean I know its obvious you should and only a halfwit would think you shouldn't but it isnt permitted.
E.g you cannot have a photograph of just a tray of bulbs (plants) and use keywords like gardening, borders, flower bed, planting, etc. Although invoking words that are clearly linked to the image or conceptually linked you cannot use them.

Keywords are: type what you see.

A duck nestling in a clump of grass cannot have pond as a keyword if a pond is not visible.

The rule is so ambiguous as to be moronic but there we are.

??? Rule? No it's a summary of what they said was happening and how the system works. My words from their webinar. GO WATCH THE TWO VIDEOS PLEASE?

Who says you can put concept ideas in keywords? Who says it's not permitted. Who's a moron, the person who includes concepts or the one who doesn't?  ::)

Yes I agree fully, keywords are pretty much only what you see and at that, the main subject and concept of an image. If there's an apple tree, way back on the horizon, someone should not include "Apple Tree"

The #3 was mostly answering the question: Will reordering or adding new words, make the image go up in the search?  "Updating older images may not change the rank, but it will make the image more searchable."

Don't miss this note:  There are other factors that still can move an image up or down.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2022, 09:08 by Uncle Pete »


 

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