Quote from: cclapper on May 09, 2013, 15:50
I could easily switch to lightroom, but if everyone does that to avoid the cloud, dont you think they will end up adding it solely into the cloud?

I think the result will be similar to that of trying to quash Getty's and iStocks's antics. A few people will refuse to go along but no where enough to make a real difference to policy. I suspect there are analysts who do the math on programs such as this and give a company a good idea of what sort of resistance they will meet up against. The fact is, for most of us, Photoshop was way good enough a long time ago. I'm sure if they could crowd source their code they'd do that too.

Quote from: sharpshot on May 09, 2013, 15:40

Quote from: Mantis on May 09, 2013, 13:44

Quote from: ShadySue on May 09, 2013, 13:36
For most people, this will only be an issue when either ACC or one of the other programs introduces a must-have feature. Otherwise, we'd stay with whatever version of PS we currently have, at least until Adobe play really mean and won't let us register our existing software if we change computers.

I was having this conversation with my wife yesterday. Last time I tried this it didn't work.  I deactivated my license, got a new computer and it wouldn't accept my license.  So I called Adobe and all I got was an Indian from India who in broken English told me he couldn't help me.  And this was CS4 suite.  I ended up having to purchase a new suite because Adobe customer service SUCKED!!!!!

I used their online chat to fix the same problem I had with Photoshop Elements.  Had it fixed in 5 minutes.

Thanks for that. Good to know.

Quote from: cclapper on May 09, 2013, 15:50
I could easily switch to lightroom, but if everyone does that to avoid the cloud, dont you think they will end up adding it solely into the cloud?

Yes, and I do a lot of cloining/compositing, so it wouldn't be much good for me.

Quote from: luissantos84 on May 09, 2013, 14:16
petition:
http://www.change.org/petitions/adobe-systems-incorporated-eliminate-the-mandatory-creative-cloud-subscription-model

The petition has gone viral.  After signing, I got an email asking me to post a link on my FB.  Maybe this will get some attention.

I'm hoping it'll turn out to be another of those situations we see so often these days.  A company thinks of an idea that'll be brilliant for them, then throws it out there to see how much of a backlash there'll be before they decide whether or how to adjust the offering.

I have to say I was initially perfectly happy with the idea and was ready to sign up.  I upgrade regularly anyway (just PS and LR), and the price seems on a par with upgrade cost, so that wasn't an issue.  But THEN I was told that if for some reason someone had to stop payment (long term illness/injury etc), they would lose the ability to use the software.  That's totally unacceptable to me as they would have already paid a fair price for it and should have the right to keep using it. 

So it looks as though I'll be on CS6 for the foreseeable future - unless they change the deal, and will sign any petition that is gathering significant momentum.

I can understand not wanting to pay the extra money, but I don't really get the opposition to the concept of the subscription. I own a boxed version of CS2 that won't run on my current computer, and I also own a boxed version of CS4 that won't open a large percentage of files on my machine. The shelf life of these programs isn't indefinite, so I don't really see the difference in renting them other than the price tag.

Quote from: cthoman on May 09, 2013, 16:35
I can understand not wanting to pay the extra money, but I don't really get the opposition to the concept of the subscription. I own a boxed version of CS2 that won't run on my current computer, and I also own a boxed version of CS4 that won't open a large percentage of files on my machine. The shelf life of these programs isn't indefinite, so I don't really see the difference in renting them other than the price tag.

I think there's a huge difference between owning and renting. I've been using the original CS version for 10 years now and it is more than enough for my simple needs of post-processing photos. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade my PC to Windows 8 (from XP) because then I'd also have to upgrade PS and lots of other issues too.

Also, I don't want to have to re-learn how to use the software (or alter my workflow) every time that Adobe chooses to 'improve' the software that I would be renting. I've had more than enough of that from Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned all operating systems since XP have been less intuitive than the previous version that they have replaced and/or XP. My laptop just got forcibly updated to IE10 and I hate it __ it's so much harder to use than IE8. These software developers just can't leave good design alone. I'm sure if they designed cars instead they'd have become virtually undriveable by now.

Quote from: gostwyck on May 09, 2013, 17:34
I think there's a huge difference between owning and renting. I've been using the original CS version for 10 years now and it is more than enough for my simple needs of post-processing photos. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade my PC to Windows 8 (from XP) because then I'd also have to upgrade PS and lots of other issues too.

Also, I don't want to have to re-learn how to use the software (or alter my workflow) every time that Adobe chooses to 'improve' the software that I would be renting. I've had more than enough of that from Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned all operating systems since XP have been less intuitive than the previous version that they have replaced and/or XP. My laptop just got forcibly updated to IE10 and I hate it __ it's so much harder to use than IE8. These software developers just can't leave good design alone. I'm sure if they designed cars instead they'd have become virtually undriveable by now.

So, you don't like it because you weren't going to buy it anyway?

Quote from: gostwyck on May 09, 2013, 17:34

Quote from: cthoman on May 09, 2013, 16:35
I can understand not wanting to pay the extra money, but I don't really get the opposition to the concept of the subscription. I own a boxed version of CS2 that won't run on my current computer, and I also own a boxed version of CS4 that won't open a large percentage of files on my machine. The shelf life of these programs isn't indefinite, so I don't really see the difference in renting them other than the price tag.

I think there's a huge difference between owning and renting. I've been using the original CS version for 10 years now and it is more than enough for my simple needs of post-processing photos. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade my PC to Windows 8 (from XP) because then I'd also have to upgrade PS and lots of other issues too.

Also, I don't want to have to re-learn how to use the software (or alter my workflow) every time that Adobe chooses to 'improve' the software that I would be renting. I've had more than enough of that from Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned all operating systems since XP have been less intuitive than the previous version that they have replaced and/or XP. My laptop just got forcibly updated to IE10 and I hate it __ it's so much harder to use than IE8. These software developers just can't leave good design alone. I'm sure if they designed cars instead they'd have become virtually undriveable by now.

Old School.   

I do have to agree ... it seems the entire corporate world has gone to lease agreements.  Ownership is for only the most wealthy -- and many of them RENT.

Cars, houses, boats, SOFTWARE. 

I want to make my own decisions about when to upgrade.

Quote from: WarrenPrice on May 09, 2013, 17:53
I want to make my own decisions about when to upgrade.

Clearly people like you and I, and even more like gostwyk, are no use to Adobe or MS. Maybe there are too many of us who don't need to upgrade with every new tweak.

Pixelmator has been very reactive to the new...
Pixelmator 2.2 is out with a lot of improvements
http://www.pixelmator.com

Quote from: Freedom on May 09, 2013, 00:44
Does anyone know what happens to the third party plug-ins such as Nik software when PS is subscribed?

works fine

bought nik color efex last year but saw the new price from google a few weeks back for the whole pack and couldnt resist

licences can be on mac and pcs or combination

http://forums.adobe.com/message/4379859#4379859#4379859?tstart=0http:

Quote from: gostwyck on May 09, 2013, 17:34

Quote from: cthoman on May 09, 2013, 16:35
I can understand not wanting to pay the extra money, but I don't really get the opposition to the concept of the subscription. I own a boxed version of CS2 that won't run on my current computer, and I also own a boxed version of CS4 that won't open a large percentage of files on my machine. The shelf life of these programs isn't indefinite, so I don't really see the difference in renting them other than the price tag.

I think there's a huge difference between owning and renting. I've been using the original CS version for 10 years now and it is more than enough for my simple needs of post-processing photos. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade my PC to Windows 8 (from XP) because then I'd also have to upgrade PS and lots of other issues too.

Also, I don't want to have to re-learn how to use the software (or alter my workflow) every time that Adobe chooses to 'improve' the software that I would be renting. I've had more than enough of that from Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned all operating systems since XP have been less intuitive than the previous version that they have replaced and/or XP. My laptop just got forcibly updated to IE10 and I hate it __ it's so much harder to use than IE8. These software developers just can't leave good design alone. I'm sure if they designed cars instead they'd have become virtually undriveable by now.

If you cant keep up with changing technology, You'll be a dinosaur before you know it.

Quote from: Poncke v2 on May 09, 2013, 22:31

Quote from: gostwyck on May 09, 2013, 17:34

Quote from: cthoman on May 09, 2013, 16:35
I can understand not wanting to pay the extra money, but I don't really get the opposition to the concept of the subscription. I own a boxed version of CS2 that won't run on my current computer, and I also own a boxed version of CS4 that won't open a large percentage of files on my machine. The shelf life of these programs isn't indefinite, so I don't really see the difference in renting them other than the price tag.

I think there's a huge difference between owning and renting. I've been using the original CS version for 10 years now and it is more than enough for my simple needs of post-processing photos. I have absolutely no plans to upgrade my PC to Windows 8 (from XP) because then I'd also have to upgrade PS and lots of other issues too.

Also, I don't want to have to re-learn how to use the software (or alter my workflow) every time that Adobe chooses to 'improve' the software that I would be renting. I've had more than enough of that from Microsoft. As far as I'm concerned all operating systems since XP have been less intuitive than the previous version that they have replaced and/or XP. My laptop just got forcibly updated to IE10 and I hate it __ it's so much harder to use than IE8. These software developers just can't leave good design alone. I'm sure if they designed cars instead they'd have become virtually undriveable by now.

If you cant keep up with changing technology, You'll be a dinosaur before you know it.

I don't think it has much to do with keeping up with technology at all. There were minimal changes between CS4, CS5 and CS5.5. I have also used the trial version of Photoshop CS6 and there just wasn't that much new and exciting that I needed to actually purchase it. I can still do the same work I did before, with CS5, without spending any more money. This is all about a large company that wants to make even more profits than they already do.

Keeping up with technology. 
Does that mean rent technology?
Has "purchasing" technology become a Dinosaur?

keeping up?!!! why should we continue to learn new things cos some designer has to make new features to justify his/her job?
these ppl aren't even working in our industry, they are designing stuff they don't actually use themselves, but rather designing things to make photoshop appear more impressive. Every time Apple makes a change to iTunes or the iPhone anyone over 30 groans. Why do we have to keep learning all this rubbish when we only need 25% of the functions? And they go and move those functions around to make it look like they are innovating.  It will get worse as now they'll have to justify this new system and roll out updates and changes all the time, rather than with each upgrade. And think about the neverending tutorials we'll have to endure with each tweak. ugh, looks like Adobe employees just saved their jobs.

We aren't fooled and we aren't impressed, just annoyed.  It will actually interfere with my work I reckon. Not to be mean to those who love all the new features, but I just want to get my work done.

Adobe has announced they are CONSIDERING a photography only type subscription

I know that this is a microstock PHOTOGRAPHY forum, but what I haven't heard a lot of here is that this is the whole suite, not just Photoshop.

I have CS6 and use Photoshop, Dreamweaver, Premiere Pro, After Effects, Encore, Illustrator, Media Encoder and am starting to use Audition. I'll also dive into SpeedGrade once I have a bit of free time.

I think that Adobe is looking at the people that use more than one of their products. They know that Photoshop CS3 or 4 is more than enough for photographers that don't use Lightroom.

Personally, I've found that each new release of most of their software has at least one feature that I don't know how I lived without. The CC makes sense for me, but I feel for those of you that don't like the idea.

Personally, I couldn't do business without using 4 or 5 of the core Adobe apps every day so for me this makes a lot of sense.  I subscribed 7 months ago and I'm absolutely loving it.  New features and fixes added to Illustrator in real time? Yes please! I also really enjoy getting to use the new products under development particularly the new web/mobile development tools.  I think if you are using a technology professionally it really pays to be keeping up with current tools and best practices.

At first I was very wary of the idea of "renting" software, but my experience so far has changed my mind.  This model definitely has an audience that it makes sense for, but I do think they should be offering some more flexible option for people who don't want the latest and greatest or an ongoing cost.

@ Gillan, Warren, CDlapper, I wasnt refering to renting, but sticking to old software because you dont want to learn to use the latest versions.

Keeping up with technology. People are afraid of change or dont want to change their habits, and in the end start loosing the edge on people that do embrace change and new technologies.

Vote my post down all you want, but you know its true.

Quote from: Amanda_K on May 10, 2013, 07:12
Personally, I couldn't do business without using 4 or 5 of the core Adobe apps every day so for me this makes a lot of sense.  I subscribed 7 months ago and I'm absolutely loving it.  New features and fixes added to Illustrator in real time? Yes please! I also really enjoy getting to use the new products under development particularly the new web/mobile development tools.  I think if you are using a technology professionally it really pays to be keeping up with current tools and best practices.

At first I was very wary of the idea of "renting" software, but my experience so far has changed my mind.  This model definitely has an audience that it makes sense for, but I do think they should be offering some more flexible option for people who don't want the latest and greatest or an ongoing cost.

I wouldnt mind renting either, but the price is too steep for me. If I checked correctly, CS6 alone will cost me 37 euro a month. Too dear.  If it would cost me 20 euros or dollars a month, I wouldnt have a single doubt and subscribe.

Quote from: Poncke v2 on May 10, 2013, 09:12

Quote from: Amanda_K on May 10, 2013, 07:12
Personally, I couldn't do business without using 4 or 5 of the core Adobe apps every day so for me this makes a lot of sense.  I subscribed 7 months ago and I'm absolutely loving it.  New features and fixes added to Illustrator in real time? Yes please! I also really enjoy getting to use the new products under development particularly the new web/mobile development tools.  I think if you are using a technology professionally it really pays to be keeping up with current tools and best practices.

At first I was very wary of the idea of "renting" software, but my experience so far has changed my mind.  This model definitely has an audience that it makes sense for, but I do think they should be offering some more flexible option for people who don't want the latest and greatest or an ongoing cost.

I wouldnt mind renting either, but the price is too steep for me. If I checked correctly, CS6 alone will cost me 37 euro a month. Too dear.  If it would cost me 20 euros or dollars a month, I wouldnt have a single doubt and subscribe.

yep I only have it because of academic version, no way i'd pay for non-academic when I dont use a quarter of the software

Quote from: Poncke v2 on May 10, 2013, 07:25
@ Gillan, Warren, CDlapper, I wasnt refering to renting, but sticking to old software because you dont want to learn to use the latest versions.

Keeping up with technology. People are afraid of change or dont want to change their habits, and in the end start loosing the edge on people that do embrace change and new technologies.

Vote my post down all you want, but you know its true.

I'm not sure what there is in PS CS5 that I actually use for stock that wasn't in CS2, for example. I upgraded because of a camera change. 5.5 came out and the changes were mostly for output for mobile devices; useful no doubt for those working in that field, but no for stock. Haven't seen anything in CS6 that would either improve my end product or make my workflow easier.
Anyway, the real idiot thing is that having bought the Suite, they apparently won't let me upgrade PS on its own. Way to alienate buyers. That's like a shop saying, "You bought a three piece suit last time. You can't buy a new waistcoat on its own."

for stock photography, CS6 will be good even 10 yrs from now.

cant' see any reason to upgrade anytime soon, also considering LR is my workhorse and PS is used seldom.

as for LR, i don't think i need anything else than LR4 actually, what they should improve is the library and a few other things but so far so good.

i can easily stick to this setup for the next 3-4 yrs.

Quote from: Poncke v2 on May 10, 2013, 09:12

Quote from: Amanda_K on May 10, 2013, 07:12
Personally, I couldn't do business without using 4 or 5 of the core Adobe apps every day so for me this makes a lot of sense.  I subscribed 7 months ago and I'm absolutely loving it.  New features and fixes added to Illustrator in real time? Yes please! I also really enjoy getting to use the new products under development particularly the new web/mobile development tools.  I think if you are using a technology professionally it really pays to be keeping up with current tools and best practices.

At first I was very wary of the idea of "renting" software, but my experience so far has changed my mind.  This model definitely has an audience that it makes sense for, but I do think they should be offering some more flexible option for people who don't want the latest and greatest or an ongoing cost.

I wouldnt mind renting either, but the price is too steep for me. If I checked correctly, CS6 alone will cost me 37 euro a month. Too dear.  If it would cost me 20 euros or dollars a month, I wouldnt have a single doubt and subscribe.

For PS only subscription:

- If you rent only PS, it would cost 25 Euro per Month (yearly subscription, billed monthly).

- If you have a VAT ID (UmsatzsteuerID in Germany), it's actually 19,99 per month, because VAT will not be charged from your credit card.

- If you want the monthly subscription (which really makes no sense to me) it's the 37 Euros.

- If you already have CS3 or newer, you'll get it for 12 Euros (10 without VAT) for the first year.

Those CC prices can be a bit confusing at first, so many options