Quote from: dirkr on May 13, 2014, 22:27
Until now all we receive is our regular subscription rate.
For example the smallest package sells at $25 for 5 XXL images, i.e. we used to receive $0,25 - $0,40 per sale depending on our rank.

That is 5% - 8%.

Thanks for pointing that out, I never realised how appalling low the commission could actually be.

If agencies squeezed their work colleagues in the same way they would eventually just leave, suppliers are no different to the employees they sit next to every day. Push too hard and they'll give up and move on to something less demoralising.

I think agencies find it all too easy to forget the real people behind the images.

This isn't about DPC and Fotolia, it's about how DPC affects the entire industry, let's keep our eye on that bigger picture. Why is FT making these changes all of a sudden? Why wouldn't they make a program that is lucrative, relatively speaking, up front? They are and always will be crooks and I am very close to just closing my FT account now, along with their evil twin, Deposit photos.

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on May 14, 2014, 00:05

Quote from: dirkr on May 13, 2014, 22:27
Until now all we receive is our regular subscription rate.
For example the smallest package sells at $25 for 5 XXL images, i.e. we used to receive $0,25 - $0,40 per sale depending on our rank.

That is 5% - 8%.

Thanks for pointing that out, I never realised how appalling low the commission could actually be.

If agencies squeezed their work colleagues in the same way they would eventually just leave, suppliers are no different to the employees they sit next to every day. Push too hard and they'll give up and move on to something less demoralising.

I think agencies find it all too easy to forget the real people behind the images.

The appalling commission rate of 5 - 8% that Fotolia has been paying is indicative of the utter lack of respect it has for its contributors...and this type of corporate abuse has been going on for years. What a nerve they have now to try and bribe their way out of a situation that they have created themselves. If we stay the course, this will be the most important example of contributor power in microstock's short history...and a warning to other agencies that fair representation for contributors is a must.

Quote from: emblem on May 14, 2014, 01:23

Quote from: stock-will-eat-itself on May 14, 2014, 00:05

Quote from: dirkr on May 13, 2014, 22:27
Until now all we receive is our regular subscription rate.
For example the smallest package sells at $25 for 5 XXL images, i.e. we used to receive $0,25 - $0,40 per sale depending on our rank.

That is 5% - 8%.

Thanks for pointing that out, I never realised how appalling low the commission could actually be.

If agencies squeezed their work colleagues in the same way they would eventually just leave, suppliers are no different to the employees they sit next to every day. Push too hard and they'll give up and move on to something less demoralising.

I think agencies find it all too easy to forget the real people behind the images.

The appalling commission rate of 5 - 8% that Fotolia has been paying is indicative of the utter lack of respect it has for its contributors...and this type of corporate abuse has been going on for years. What a nerve they have now to try and bribe their way out of a situation that they have created themselves. If we stay the course, this will be the most important example of contributor power in microstock's short history...and a warning to other agencies that fair representation for contributors is a must.

I sure hope you are right.

Quote from: Monty-m-gue on May 13, 2014, 23:33
FT have watched 25% of the content of DPC disappear into the ether within two weeks. They are sh*tting themselves. Hold your nerve people. This offer of increased subs royalties at an agency that is being scuppered from within is worthless.

That!
Very well said.

Don't get distracted by some desperate offer.
I will not opt back in for this for sure.
It's good to see that contributors could actually make an impact.
We should stay on course and inform even more people about it, and make DPC shrink even more.

At what conditions would i consider if it' worth joining?
Certainly the bar should be raised, at least to the $100 one as it was mentioned here many times. It should also expire. And i want to see that DPC really tries to get into new market for us, not just stealing market share from other agencies also selling our images. And there should be per file based opt in. Then, maybe i would consider opting in my lowest earners.

Quote from: leaf on May 13, 2014, 22:11
I know we are all frustrated with DPC, but .. er.. isn't this good news?

Fotolia are making it more lucrative to be part of DPC.  Isn't that what we want/wanted?

just asking.....  (goes and hides behind the tomato shield)

I personally think it is highly counter productive to support the race to the bottom. Why support a company that will reduce the value of our assets substantially in one fell swoop.

We should be putting upward pricing pressure "on all of the sites"; instead of enabling them to push buyer pricing lower every day so that they can gain market share at a long term cost to contributors.

And now, with the starting of this thread, we are officially told that sometimes we got only 5% commission on FT. Ha!

I hope it will be really eliminated form now, as that post says. That may help contributors to consider staying with Fotolia,  but i don't think it will make them rejoin DPC

It's kind of a brilliant move. Especially if the end-game is to transition more business over to DPC.

I think that the added bonus of higher Fotolia royalties will pretty much ensure that enough people stay opted-in, and DPC is likely here to stay as-is. I had hoped that the $10 minimum buy-in would be raised, but I'm also not too surprised that it's staying where it is.

There isn't much else to say really. I think we had an opportunity to send a stronger message with opt-outs before today. Now it's going to be much harder to do. There were plenty of hold-outs before, and now there's added incentive to stay opted-in. The uphill battle just turned pretty much vertical.

There has been some momentum in the other direction over the last couple of years. I still believe that companies who make artists a top priority will win out over the companies fighting to just be the cheapest in the business. That's where I'm focusing my efforts.

I don't see that this news changes anything, at least in regards to DPC.  DPC is still a lousy deal.  And yes, you get a few percent extra on Fotolia sales if you're opted in to DPC, but that's balanced out by the likelihood that you won't see those sales.  Why should anyone pay Fotolia's higher prices for content that's available on DPC?

I'll stay out of DPC, and I'll continue to remove my work from Fotolia a drop at a time.  Thanks for the extra income, assuming I see any, but you're still untrustworthy in the extreme.

Quote from: dirkr on May 13, 2014, 22:27
Just to clear that up a bit:

If I understand that correctly, it is NOT about DPC directly.
Fotolia is raising the commission they pay on the monthly subscriptions.
Until now all we receive is our regular subscription rate.
For example the smallest package sells at $25 for 5 XXL images, i.e. we used to receive $0,25 - $0,40 per sale depending on our rank.

That is 5% - 8%.


Dirk



Now they raise that to a flat 20% (with a lower limit of the old rate).

That alone is a good move.
While I would like to receive the rate according to my rank (as these are not really subscriptions, but rather credit packages under a different name) it is still an improvement.

Now the connection to DPC: If you opt your portfolio in to DPC, that rate (for the monthly subscriptions) goes up from 20% to 25%.

I never knew about this one! How f****** greed they have been!?! *puke* There most some unbeliveable stupid people running this site!

Normally I get 0.29 from a subscribtion sale, but in past days I've got some 0.32 and 0.38 subscribtion sales too. What that might be?

I don't know if I have missed something, but could it be that the new rates do not regard the ranking? So white is getting the same as emerald?

Quote from: Sean Locke Photography on May 13, 2014, 21:50
Desperate, eh?

Clearly, this shows that we are more and more stronger. But, they only try little movements, alone. They still do not listen!

When they start to listen to us and will make right movements together with us, I will opt-in.

... ft should call off dpc - no so called improvements can improve something completely wrong like  dpc ...

....then... they have to admit that they tried something deeply wrong - this way... they can show some real strength... for the first time...

Quote from: ferdinand on May 14, 2014, 08:22
... ft should call off dpc - no so called improvements can improve something completely wrong like  dpc ...

....then... they have to admit that they tried something deeply wrong - this way... they can show some real strength... for the first time...

Yes. The first step towards any improvement is to "admit that there is a problem". In this case DPC or the way it is currently structured is a problem. Admitting to it and doing something about it will certain help FT earn respect from me personally.

I am silver on FT. until now I was paid 0.29/ sub. sale (EURO); now is 0.30. 0.3 euro cents *1.30 ( USD/EURO  parity) = 0.39 USD; more that I am paid on SS ( 0.38 $/download)....

So in my case is not bad at all considering that FT is my second earner. 

"The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away"
What's the betting that if Fotolia manage to lure content back to DFC with this concession they won't find a way somewhere down the line to cut commissions back to 5% again?
I can't help wondering if they really were paying 5% minimum or if it was 4% or 3% in some cases after it had been run through the magical credit to cash-grab  conversion formula which ensures that people paid on the dollar rate lose out heavily if a file is sold to someone in the EU or UK.
I wouldn't trust Fotolia as far as I could throw it after my experience there - which was why I quit them some years back.
Anyway, congratulations to all on extracting some concessions from them. But don't think it amounts to an overall victory, or that the improved terms are necessarily permanent.

Quote from: BaldricksTrousers on May 14, 2014, 08:53
I can't help wondering if they really were paying 5% minimum or if it was 4% or 3% in some cases after it had been run through the magical credit to cash-grab  conversion formula which ensures that people paid on the dollar rate lose out heavily if a file is sold to someone in the EU or UK.

You're so right there.
My example of 5% was calculated based on two major assumptions:

• Customers buys in US$ and contributor gets paid in US$
• Customer uses all images in the pack

So the worst case is:
A customer buys a "monthly subscription" for €25.
He only downloads one XXL image.
US contributor (white) receives $0,25.
Customer does not renew the subscription into the next month, the remaining downloads expire.

Result: $0,25 / €25*1,38$/€ = 0,72%.

Quote from: MatHayward on May 13, 2014, 21:48
Hi Everyone,

I've got exciting news to share with you!  Fotolia has changed the commission structure for monthly subscription downloads for all contributors. 

The changes have taken effect as of today so you may have noticed some differences already.  From now on, all  contributors that are opted in to Dollar Photo Club will receive 25% of the price paid for a subscription download.  For example, a $25 monthly subscription provides 5 XXL images resulting in a $5 price per image.  Your commission on that sale will now be $1.25 instead of the flat rate it has been.  In some cases this change can result in more than a 500% increase in commissions. 

As subscription quantities increase, the cost per photo goes down.  The good news is that your commission will never go under what it is now .  In other words, the minimum commission you will receive is the same commission as it has always been.  This change can only affect you positively.

The 25% rate is for those opted IN to DPC.  If you choose to opt out of DPC, Fotolia will still pay a 20% commission for subscription sales at Fotolia which in some case is a 400% increase for existing sub commissions.

Some more news will come soon regarding the Extended license at Dollar Photo Club.


Cheers!

Mat

So that explains the $0.98 I got for a subscription sale (XL) instead of the usual $0.27.

The problem is that DPC's 10 images for $10 will still net me a lot less than an On Demand Download from other well know sites.

I was talking to a client last night.  They wanted 10 interior shots we compared prices on DPC vs other sites.

The question was raised how much does the photographer get?

When it was calculated they said "that's terrible"

The discussion went on about "Fair Trade". 

The client decided to go with the higher cost option because:

1. They felt it fairer that the photographer/artist got at least a few bucks for a  download as opposed to pennies.

2. The selection of images was much better elsewhere (i.e. not DPC).

3. The cost was only in terms of $10 (DPC) or $50 (elsewhere) so did not really make them worry.

I'd rather a couple of bucks for a download rather than the paltry cent rates from DPC.

This offer still does not resolve the problem that DPC is a cancer in the microstock industry and like all cancers destroys the host and eventually itself.

Subscriptions rates will not change, it only applies to Fotolia 'monthly packs' below 100 images. The others have a cost per image that makes the 25% rule fall below cost per image.
I just remembered one of the "reasons" they launced Photos.com was to simplify pricing, and now I understand they were talking about themselves and their mess.
Fotolia has 8 different 'monthly packs' prices and 28 different subscription plans.
Shutterstock has 4 subscription plans.
Dreamstime has 10 subscription plans.
123RF has 8 subscription plans.

It's obvious Fotolia feels threatened by Depositphotos judging by their past  comments on agencies with lower prices and by the fact that Depositphotos has an even bigger pricing mess with 48 'monthly packs' and 32 subscription plans.

Wow! Great news, Mat! So nice that Fotolia cares about its contributors and increases the commission on "pseudo-subscriptions" from 6-7% to 20%.

But... Oh, wait, holy s**t, are you kidding us? Who needs 5 XXL images for 25$ when you promote your DPC where a user can get 25 XXL for 25 bucks?

Look the truth in the eye - Fotolia came to a death agony, more than 6,500,000 images opted-out of DPC and the number keeps growing. Do you really think that you can return that many images back to DPC with the help of this news?

DPC MUST BE BURIED.... and Fotolia should follow suite

Just tried to embed some MacGyver here to give us the motivation punch to fight against this *insult removed*! Couldn't do it 

Quote from: fotoramka on May 14, 2014, 11:23
Wow! Great news, Mat! So nice that Fotolia cares about its contributors and increases the commission on "pseudo-subscriptions" from 6-7% to 20%.

But... Oh, wait, holy s**t, are you kidding us? Who needs 5 XXL images for 25$ when you promote your DPC where a user can get 25 XXL for 25 bucks?

Look the truth in the eye - Fotolia came to a death agony, more than 6,500,000 images opted-out of DPC and the number keeps growing. Do you really think that you can return that many images back to DPC with the help of this news?

lol. That's so true. Maybe they think we are stupid? 

Quote from: fotoramka on May 14, 2014, 11:23
Look the truth in the eye - Fotolia came to a death agony, more than 6,500,000 images opted-out of DPC and the number keeps growing. Do you really think that you can return that many images back to DPC with the help of this news?

In a few months 6 million new files will be back there,unless everyone opts out, which will never happen. The important thing is that the artists are informed that their images have been moved to dpc and that they have an opt out option if they don´t want to be there.

There are agencies out there that are even cheaper than dpc and there is the creative common license. Even agencies that offer only free legal files, I think panthermedia has one.

The difference is CHOICE.

As artists we produce files for many price points,files for 500 dollars and files for 1 dollar. At least I do. Not every snapshot I take is high quality. But I need to be in control what goes where. istock used to have the dollarbin where we can move our old files too. Some agencies offer a free section where you can donate files in the hope it will drive traffic to your portfolio. But it is the artist who makes the decision (or should be, istock later removed our option...)

For me I would need an individual opt in and if I wanted to try DPC it would be with old files or files that have never sold anywhere. I wouldn´t mind selling those for a dollar before they die on my hard drive. So if Fotolia had invited me into the DPC, offered me an individual opt in, a bonus for those who opt in everything...that would have been the right way, the professional way to do it.

But they didn´t so now they have to live with the shitstorm they created.

I believe that first of all artist need to know that their files have been moved to a new portal without asking them. I hope that the threads on the various forums have reached as many people in the community as possible.

Quote from: cobalt on May 14, 2014, 11:49

Quote from: fotoramka on May 14, 2014, 11:23
Look the truth in the eye - Fotolia came to a death agony, more than 6,500,000 images opted-out of DPC and the number keeps growing. Do you really think that you can return that many images back to DPC with the help of this news?

"In a few months 6 million new files will be back there, unless everyone opts out, which will never happen."

I'm not entirely sure that's going to be the case. The 25% of images removed already have, I strongly suspect, been removed by current contributors who see the need to preserve the industry moving forward. If it *is* active contributors that have opted out then DPC will be starved of new material. I think that's why FT are sh*tting themselves and are offering smoke and mirror inducements to get folks to opt back in.

I say again, hold your nerve folks. Fotolia are back-peddling. They are worried. I suspect a better offer from them isn't far away if we all remain opted out and persuade others to do the same.