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And Paul, speaking for myself, I don't think my comments are comical.
Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 05:16 Corrupt bunch and they need to get sorted out.exactly, but as an experienced traveler i would also say that if you got ripped off so bad you must be ashamed too because you forgot to do your homeworks and to collect information about the scams and ripoffs going on in the place you were visiting.if you think you had it so bad don't even try places like Mumbai or Saigon or Caracas ...
Corrupt bunch and they need to get sorted out.
Greece cooked the books. They we're in a hole and needed EU money to survive. Of course debts were created. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature
Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 05:16And Paul, speaking for myself, I don't think my comments are comical. I never suggested your comments were comical. I said that Juncker's description of the euro as being an engine of solidarity and prosperity was comical. Or, at least, it would be if it didn't show a complete lack of comprehension of what is going on in Southern Europe (and even France) by those in charge.I am shocked by the rest of your comment. I must have spent close to two years in Greece, a month or two at a time, over the last 20 years and I can only recall one occasion when someone scammed me, that was back in '96. How you could have such a bad experience in 24 hours I really don't know, or perhaps it's because it was Athens and I spend very little of my time there.
Have some empathy guys because, like the Greeks, most of us have zero control of events that can land us in the *, and it could happen to any of us.
Quote from: heywoody on June 28, 2015, 05:27 Have some empathy guys because, like the Greeks, most of us have zero control of events that can land us in the *, and it could happen to any of us.+100
it was my first long haul flight. I may have been naive. Lessons learned Still they are crooks for trying
. Its called a bail out. We never should have. We should have cut them out there and then. They're not held hostage. Nonsense. They can leave whenever they want. But they don't because of their greedy nature
Still i am reluctant to visit the islands because of that experience
Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 05:38Still i am reluctant to visit the islands because of that experienceThat's a shame, you're missing some marvellous experiences - and it will be a really cheap place to go next year.
Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 10:16Quote from: ferdinand on June 27, 2015, 09:15...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.I wish more countries would hold referendums on important matters. Referendums are banksters and eurocrat's biggest fear. If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs. But yes Greece has itself to blame, that's what happens with left-wing populism.It's unsustainable for different countries to share the same currency, especially with such disparity between them. The countries lose the ability to control inflation and money supply. Then you start seeing weird patterns, like everyday products costing triple in Spain than in Germany.EUSSR was a bad idea from the start, except from freedom of movement. That's ruined though now with illegals getting a free pass. Why have visa policies at all if 3rd world muslim people get to live in Europe forever on taxpayer money. I liked Europe, but it's collapse is inevitable. Maybe eastern europeans can watch how western europe is slowly turning into a hellhole and wake up before it's too late.
Quote from: ferdinand on June 27, 2015, 09:15...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.
...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...
The bail-out has involved lending money at interest from which, iirc, the ECB has so far made a profit of about four billion euros. In my lexicon a bail-out happens if someone gives you money for nothing to get you out of a hole, banks making loans at interest is not a bailout.
Paul. I live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjust
44m ago11:08Austria: Greece would have to ASK to leave Austrias finance minister, Hans Jrg Schelling, has flagged up that Greece would have to ask to leave the eurozone, and get the permission of the rest of Europe:http://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2015/jun/28/greek-crisis-ecb-emergency-liquidity-referendum-bailout-live
Quote from: Nikovsk on June 27, 2015, 11:42Quote from: panicAttack on June 27, 2015, 10:16Quote from: ferdinand on June 27, 2015, 09:15...this is a beginning of the end of EU - Tsipras is a historical figure - true hero!...if you are not joking i would like to say that he would be a hero if he had any courage at least political kind of courage, and he was elected to have some. Greece choose him to do what he is supposed to do now, and what he does, he make referendum to wash his hands of any responsibility.I wish more countries would hold referendums on important matters. Referendums are banksters and eurocrat's biggest fear. If greeks are smart enough, they will get out of the euro and start walking with their own legs. But yes Greece has itself to blame, that's what happens with left-wing populism.It's unsustainable for different countries to share the same currency, especially with such disparity between them. The countries lose the ability to control inflation and money supply. Then you start seeing weird patterns, like everyday products costing triple in Spain than in Germany.EUSSR was a bad idea from the start, except from freedom of movement. That's ruined though now with illegals getting a free pass. Why have visa policies at all if 3rd world muslim people get to live in Europe forever on taxpayer money. I liked Europe, but it's collapse is inevitable. Maybe eastern europeans can watch how western europe is slowly turning into a hellhole and wake up before it's too late.I don't like referendums because people vote for what would be best for them now, not for the long term. So they often take the option that leads to problems in the future. There's the same problem with elections, all politicians ignore long term plans because they know they only need to get voted in now, so they promise things that will cause big problems in future years.
The countries are not being punished. They are being bailed out at a cost. And Paul, speaking for myself, I don't think my comments are comical. Just my opinion on the situation. Greeks are fully responsible for the sh.it they're in. I have no sympathy for them whatsoever. Maybe fuelled by the fact that during a 24 hr stop over in Athens every single person i had to pay for a service or product scammed me. I was driven around Athens in a taxi going in circles to raise the fare. A barman charing me 18 guilders for a can of beer. Another taxi driver raising his fare at 22:50 when it should be at 23:00. The woman at the airport making us pay 100 guilders for a visa i didn't need. Corrupt bunch and they need to get sorted out.
In modern societies, people are trained very effectively to be dumb and not think for themselves. In an enlightened society it would work better. But I still trust the people more than the government, better to have the choice of digging your own grave than just being thrown off the cliff.
finding a rifle (where ? how ?) and start shooting a few politicians
Quote from: Semmick Photo on June 28, 2015, 05:57Paul. I live in Ireland. I have experienced austerity measures although because I was single young and no children it was not hard to adjustYou didn't really experience austerity even if it was going on around you, other than paying the USC. If you were in the building trade as a simple navvie or even an engineer or architect and had a mortgage, taken out in good faith, and a few kids you would have had the full on experience and would be gone outta here. The high moral ground is often fine until one actually experience a given situation and then, suddenly, one becomes slightly more flexible.