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Author Topic: OMG America!!!  (Read 38333 times)

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« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2016, 13:16 »
+1
Trump is the George Wallace for 2016.  GW didn't work out so well as a general candidate. 

A two party system works best when there are two strong parties.  Unfortunately the GOPs insistence of fighting lost battles (social change, changing demographics, general progress) and trying to turn back the clocks to the 1930s is a losing strategy.

The exclusive strategy didn't work with the last rich business man they ran - Mitt Romney and the numbers haven't changed.  America didn't become more white, more straight, more male dominated in the past few years but on the surface it appears to have become stupider.

Trump will keep his percentage of uneducated, racist, angry voters but will lose in a landslide in the national election dragging his party down with him.

As it is the GOP only appears viable due to gerrymandering and the use of fear as a governing tactic.  There aren't any actual ideas and they've given up on trying to govern.  At this point they are so weak they are afraid of the supreme court nomination process.

Meanwhile, as with the last election cycle, the media will play along with the notion that the race is tight even though the results are rather well predicted - you can't win by excluding women, minorities, unions, LGBT community etc.  There just aren't enough poorly educated, angry white men to pull it off.

At this point Bernie is done.  Time to start bringing the party in around Hillary to make sure we don't elect our own version of Putin.

Best analysis of the situation!


« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2016, 13:18 »
+2
I don't understand the mentality. If people think the system is corrupt why vote in some super rich guy? Why not vote in someone that wants to reform the system like Bernie. Does the electorate think the solution is to only have super rich politicians from now on? And by the way rich doesn't mean incorruptible, they didn't get rich by not being greedy or knowing enough is enough.

Most Americans trust successful business leaders far more than they trust politicians.

Bernie hasn't a chance, Hillary was anointed by the Dems a long time ago. The only thing that would keep her out is a trip to prison.

Hongover

« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2016, 13:31 »
+1
Nothing wrong with Trump winning. People are tired of politicians who promise things and never deliver. People are tried of politicians who are easily bribed by lobbyist groups and help their rich friends get richer.

Trump winning is a shot in the arm for America. He just may be the best candidate in this entire election.
Why would Trump be any different?  Do you really think he wont be helping his rich friends and himself get richer?  Are people really that naive? The system doesn't work, it really doesn't matter who makes the false promises before the election.  I wouldn't trust Trump or Clinton, they both have a shady past.

At this point in time, it doesn't matter what I think. I can't stop the inevitable and neither can anyone else. Trump and Hillary will be the nominees and one of them will become president.

What I do know is this. Every candidate that has receive campaign funding is going to have to return the favor in one way or another. It's going to be favorable business deals that are part of bills or other backdoor deals. Bush Jr wasted hundreds of billions with Halliburton and wasted a over a trillion dollars on unnecessary wars. Obama has done his share of giving hundreds of billions away as well.

Trump has barely received any campaign funding. He doesn't have to return many favors. The Republican establishment is trying everything to stop Trump for one simple reason...their friends won't be getting any deals. Trump is more of an independent in the way he thinks and he's not going to allow a lot of pork to go through to friends of either party. Behind all the rhetoric is a successful businessman who has ran a gigantic organization with a structure similar to a government. Will he build a wall? Maybe. Will he do some of the crazy things he talked about? probably not. What I do know is that he knows how to efficiently run a huge organization. I also happen to value people who are honest and straight shooting.

He is the most dangerous candidate for Hillary to run against. He can and will take Hillary out of her game and make her look bad. Whether anyone likes it or not, Trump has a near 50% chance to become president of the United States. In boxing, there is a term called "Styles make fights", and I actually think Trump could actually be a favorite against Hillary because of their personalities.




« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2016, 13:43 »
+1
Of course Trumps business buddies will be getting deals. It will work like in the UK. The politicians can do favours in advance of cushy speaking deals or consultation positions worth millions after they finish their term, it's just as easy doing deals for those funding their campaign in advance of coming to office.

« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2016, 13:56 »
+3
Nothing wrong with Trump winning. People are tired of politicians who promise things and never deliver. People are tried of politicians who are easily bribed by lobbyist groups and help their rich friends get richer.

Trump winning is a shot in the arm for America. He just may be the best candidate in this entire election.
Why would Trump be any different?  Do you really think he wont be helping his rich friends and himself get richer?  Are people really that naive? The system doesn't work, it really doesn't matter who makes the false promises before the election.  I wouldn't trust Trump or Clinton, they both have a shady past.


Trump has barely received any campaign funding. He doesn't have to return many favors. The Republican establishment is trying everything to stop Trump for one simple reason...their friends won't be getting any deals. Trump is more of an independent in the way he thinks and he's not going to allow a lot of pork to go through to friends of either party. Behind all the rhetoric is a successful businessman who has ran a gigantic organization with a structure similar to a government. Will he build a wall? Maybe. Will he do some of the crazy things he talked about? probably not. What I do know is that he knows how to efficiently run a huge organization. I also happen to value people who are honest and straight shooting.



That is quite an over simplification. I'm not saying that it isn't partially true but I'd bet that they are trying to stop him because if he actually gets in power it will ruin not only the economy but the GOP "brand" for a long long time.

It doesn't totally matter if he actually goes through with some of his crazy schemes (frankly, some of them would be illegal and unconstitutional) but the fact that he even suggests them should cause concern. Saying things without putting a mental filter on them is great for getting popular support. It is NOT what you want a leader to do.

« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2016, 14:01 »
+4
Nothing wrong with Trump winning. People are tired of politicians who promise things and never deliver. People are tried of politicians who are easily bribed by lobbyist groups and help their rich friends get richer.

Trump winning is a shot in the arm for America. He just may be the best candidate in this entire election.

I have no pro or con for Trump.
But do you really believe that he will not be, him too, one of these "who promise things and never deliver"?
I am sure he will; all politicians are

hard to deliver since he hasn't made any concrete promises other than everything will be great.  he's a demagogue playing to sexist, racist, nationalist and anti-immigrant feelings. 

even the republican party can't back him! 

meanwhile Obama has come thru on many of his promises:
-affordable care act giving health care to over 10 million more
-stimulus which pulled us out of Bush's recession
-steady jobs growth over 6 years
-an historic climate change agreement
-opening relations with Cuba
-fewer prisoners in Guantanamo (remainder are there because of republican congress' refusal to act)

as far as trump as a 'successful' business man - that's no where near the same as running a govt in which you have to actually work WITH the other branches of govt; business owners already run too much in the US while paying little or no taxes
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 14:09 by cascoly »

Hongover

« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2016, 15:15 »
0
Nothing wrong with Trump winning. People are tired of politicians who promise things and never deliver. People are tried of politicians who are easily bribed by lobbyist groups and help their rich friends get richer.

Trump winning is a shot in the arm for America. He just may be the best candidate in this entire election.

I have no pro or con for Trump.
But do you really believe that he will not be, him too, one of these "who promise things and never deliver"?
I am sure he will; all politicians are

hard to deliver since he hasn't made any concrete promises other than everything will be great.  he's a demagogue playing to sexist, racist, nationalist and anti-immigrant feelings. 

even the republican party can't back him! 

meanwhile Obama has come thru on many of his promises:
-affordable care act giving health care to over 10 million more
-stimulus which pulled us out of Bush's recession
-steady jobs growth over 6 years
-an historic climate change agreement
-opening relations with Cuba
-fewer prisoners in Guantanamo (remainder are there because of republican congress' refusal to act)

as far as trump as a 'successful' business man - that's no where near the same as running a govt in which you have to actually work WITH the other branches of govt; business owners already run too much in the US while paying little or no taxes

I think Obama has been a great president. I give him credit for a correcting a lot of Bush's mistakes and doing a lot for this country. He will leave a nice legacy behind and his successor will have a lot to live up to.

I do disagree with one thing though. The steady job growth has less to do with the president and more to do with a few companies (Apple's App platform & Google's app platform) and a group of wealthy individuals (Angel investors and venture capitalist) investing in startup and post-startup companies that created millions of jobs around the country.

People can dislike Trump as much as they want, but no Republican candidate other than him has any chance against Hillary Clinton. Cruz is close to an extremist and so is Bernie Sanders. We're facing trillion dollar debts and neither guy would know how to handle it...in fact, they would probably greatly contribute to it. Trump is probably better at dealing with budgets than any candidate because of his business background. I'm sure he'll have his share of favorable deals, but feel better about him giving a few Billion away than wasting hundreds of billion on bad deals.

Trump is a good salesman. He's a great marketer. He's telling people what they want to hear and it's working for him. He's going to tone things down if he's in office, but what I do like is his willingness to walk away from deals that put the US in a lose-lose situation.

« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2016, 15:51 »
+11
Behind all the rhetoric is a successful businessman who has ran a gigantic organization with a structure similar to a government.

Not even close - there is very little similarity to running a business versus government, the goals are completely different (i.e., making profits for owners versus not making a profit).

Trump is terrible at budgets and planning - his businesses declared bankruptcy four times in only 18 years due to unsustainable spending.  Thanks to the largesse of the courts he was able to walk away and reorganize.  If he bankrupts the US Government - which is exactly what will happen based on his economic proposals - he can't just forgive the debts, we taxpayers will be on the hook for the rest of our lives.  We still haven't paid off the huge debts accumulated under Reagan and Bush, a Trump budget would just be the final nail in the coffin.

Trump certainly has tapped into something and he is very good at telling people what they want to hear and pumping up a certain kind of crowd.  However, his speaking and writing are both at about a fourth-grade vocabulary level which is not encouraging.  He clearly suffers from - in fact is a textbook case according to many psychologists - narcissistic personality disorder, and very likely is a charismatic psychopath.  Not the kind of person I want to see in charge of anything, and definitely not any country with nuclear weapons.

« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2016, 16:36 »
0
CBC posted this yesterday.  Can't imagine this donkey in power - but I have to admit it would be very entertaining.  Kinda like when Rob Ford was mayor of Toronto.  Fun to watch - from another Province/Country.

 http://www.cbc.ca/news/trending/anti-donald-trump-ad-women-reading-sexist-trump-quotes-1.3492861

« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2016, 16:39 »
0
Imagine all the sound bytes that we would get from Trump

Just when we thought it was all over when Bush and Quayle left  :)

« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2016, 16:49 »
+5
I don't understand the mentality. If people think the system is corrupt why vote in some super rich guy? Why not vote in someone that wants to reform the system like Bernie. Does the electorate think the solution is to only have super rich politicians from now on? And by the way rich doesn't mean incorruptible, they didn't get rich by not being greedy or knowing enough is enough.

People that vote Trump are the ones with lots of anger (mainly at other people). They do not have any sympathy for anyone except for themselves and their immediate family. They get his message as they have the same mentality as him. Basically the haters of the world. Surprising how many of them are out there. I just think this is another by product of nature. There will always be a certain amount of people like this no matter what. Otherwise, we wouldn't be so different.

« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2016, 17:06 »
+7
Anyone thinking Trump is actually "speaking his mind" will find themselves disappointed if he's elected.  There's only one thing on Trump's mind: Trump.

« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2016, 18:03 »
+3
...
I really worry about some of the rhetoric coming out of Trump's mouth and the fact that he gets more support from saying it. Americans are pretty quick to deride communism, socialism etc but apparently very few have any understanding of what fascism is and why it is so dangerous (and seductive).
...

There are many of us who recognize fascist rhetoric when we see it. I just hope there are enough of us.

And some who recognize the Socialist and Communist leanings of Hillary, with her rich friends, dealings and just as bad as all the rest. She and her liberals want to tax and spend and give handouts for votes.

I'd vote for Bernie.

« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2016, 18:15 »
+3
Minscer, Trump lies the most of all candidates http://2016-presidential-candidates-fact-check.silk.co/

In God We Trust that we will not get that nut case running the country, Hilary for me, basically because she is a decent woman. all politicians are crap but lets not go with the worst possible option since bush. Trump makes Bush look like Einstein.

Hongover

« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2016, 18:18 »
+1
Behind all the rhetoric is a successful businessman who has ran a gigantic organization with a structure similar to a government.

Not even close - there is very little similarity to running a business versus government, the goals are completely different (i.e., making profits for owners versus not making a profit).

Trump is terrible at budgets and planning - his businesses declared bankruptcy four times in only 18 years due to unsustainable spending.  Thanks to the largesse of the courts he was able to walk away and reorganize.  If he bankrupts the US Government - which is exactly what will happen based on his economic proposals - he can't just forgive the debts, we taxpayers will be on the hook for the rest of our lives.  We still haven't paid off the huge debts accumulated under Reagan and Bush, a Trump budget would just be the final nail in the coffin.

Trump certainly has tapped into something and he is very good at telling people what they want to hear and pumping up a certain kind of crowd.  However, his speaking and writing are both at about a fourth-grade vocabulary level which is not encouraging.  He clearly suffers from - in fact is a textbook case according to many psychologists - narcissistic personality disorder, and very likely is a charismatic psychopath.  Not the kind of person I want to see in charge of anything, and definitely not any country with nuclear weapons.

Well, he is in charge of the Trump organization and it's pretty well-run. Risk is something every businessman has to face in his lifetime and competition on is something everyone of us have to face in our lifetime. So a few of his ventures fell to competition and he used the system to help him. What intelligent person wouldn't if given the opportunity?

To make it as far as he has in this election is no accident. Not even Michael Bloomberg, someone I hold in high regard was able to accomplish this. Trump is good at what he does and this primary showed me that can get good at anything he put his mind to.

« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2016, 18:28 »
+4
Mincer, running a business and being a salesman is not really a good resume to run a country that if it were a person could be described as a schizophrenic borderline trigger happy maniac with a nuclear weapon trying to feed 319 million people

Hongover

« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2016, 18:29 »
+2
Minscer, Trump lies the most of all candidates http://2016-presidential-candidates-fact-check.silk.co/

In God We Trust that we will not get that nut case running the country, Hilary for me, basically because she is a decent woman. all politicians are crap but lets not go with the worst possible option since bush. Trump makes Bush look like Einstein.


I would say that Trump uses a lot of hyperbole. There are lies like Bush getting into a trillion dollar war and there are lies like Trump claiming his book is a bestseller. And his claim about true employment numbers being closer to 18-20% isn't that far from the truth.

Let's not talk about Bush. He has caused more damaged to this country than any recent president in memory. Trump is not even close to as dumb as Bush.

« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2016, 18:33 »
+1
a lie is a lie and he tells most lies, what is preventing him to lie about basically anything when he runs office? he is a compulsive liar, but because he has a few popular sound bites that appeal to the angry racist mob, he gets votes in. worst thing that can ever happen to our country is to have Trump in charge of it.

Hongover

« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2016, 18:38 »
+4
Mincer, running a business and being a salesman is not really a good resume to run a country that if it were a person could be described as a schizophrenic borderline trigger happy maniac with a nuclear weapon trying to feed 319 million people

I actually fear Cruz being on the trigger than Trump. Cruz is the type of crackpot that would start a religious war and cause social unrest. Trump maybe be slightly hotheaded, but he's not an extremist.

If North Korea aims a nuclear weapon at Manhattan, I wouldn't complain if Trump nukes it first.

« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2016, 18:39 »
+5
I don't understand the mentality. If people think the system is corrupt why vote in some super rich guy? Why not vote in someone that wants to reform the system like Bernie. Does the electorate think the solution is to only have super rich politicians from now on? And by the way rich doesn't mean incorruptible, they didn't get rich by not being greedy or knowing enough is enough.


Most Americans trust successful business leaders far more than they trust politicians.

Bernie hasn't a chance, Hillary was anointed by the Dems a long time ago. The only thing that would keep her out is a trip to prison.


Simply NOT true! After last night Hillary only increased her delegate lead by 57, leaving Sanders plenty of room to eliminate her advantage in the 24 remaining states. A candidate needs 2,383 delegates to clinch the Democratic nomination, and as of March 16, Clinton only has 1,139 delegates to Sanders 825. All of the states most favorable to Clinton have already voted, and the states most favorable to Sanders are still on the calendar.

Feel the Bern!  8)

http://artists4bernie.com/2016/01/16/bernie-so-punk-by-abcnt/

It's not over till it's over!
« Last Edit: March 16, 2016, 18:44 by KnowYourOnions »

« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2016, 18:50 »
+6
Minscer, Trump lies the most of all candidates http://2016-presidential-candidates-fact-check.silk.co/

In God We Trust that we will not get that nut case running the country, Hilary for me, basically because she is a decent woman. all politicians are crap but lets not go with the worst possible option since bush. Trump makes Bush look like Einstein.


I would say that Trump uses a lot of hyperbole. There are lies like Bush getting into a trillion dollar war and there are lies like Trump claiming his book is a bestseller. And his claim about true employment numbers being closer to 18-20% isn't that far from the truth.

Let's not talk about Bush. He has caused more damaged to this country than any recent president in memory. Trump is not even close to as dumb as Bush.
I think its dumb to move so far to the right in the republican nominations that he will lose the middle ground.  I also think its dumb to be headline news for making outlandish comments when that gets broadcast to the rest of the world.  If he gets in to power, the US could be in another financial crisis because those crazy comments make him look like a big risk.  The comments about women could lose him the election, or the comments about Putin.  Beating some lame candidates for the republican nomination doesn't mean much if he has ruined his chance of becoming president in the process.  If Trump has an IQ higher than Bush, he is sure doing a great job of hiding it.

Hongover

« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2016, 18:54 »
+1
I don't understand the mentality. If people think the system is corrupt why vote in some super rich guy? Why not vote in someone that wants to reform the system like Bernie. Does the electorate think the solution is to only have super rich politicians from now on? And by the way rich doesn't mean incorruptible, they didn't get rich by not being greedy or knowing enough is enough.


Most Americans trust successful business leaders far more than they trust politicians.

Bernie hasn't a chance, Hillary was anointed by the Dems a long time ago. The only thing that would keep her out is a trip to prison.


Simply NOT true! After last night Hillary only increased her delegate lead by 57, leaving Sanders plenty of room to eliminate her advantage in the 24 remaining states. A candidate needs 2,383 delegates to clinch the Democratic nomination, and as of March 16, Clinton only has 1,139 delegates to Sanders 825. All of the states most favorable to Clinton have already voted, and the states most favorable to Sanders are still on the calendar.

Feel the Bern!  8)

http://artists4bernie.com/2016/01/16/bernie-so-punk-by-abcnt/

It's not over till it's over!


This I agree with. Bernie Sanders is gaining momentum. Hillary's super-delegate advantage is being chipped away by Bernie's persistence. There are some really big states could still go either way and those will decide the outcome of the democratic primary.

If bad news continue to pour in regarding her private email server, that lead will continue to deteriorate. Sanders would actually be a better opponent against Trump. Hillary would get hammered badly by trump on the topic of private emails alone.

Hongover

« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2016, 19:03 »
+2
Minscer, Trump lies the most of all candidates http://2016-presidential-candidates-fact-check.silk.co/

In God We Trust that we will not get that nut case running the country, Hilary for me, basically because she is a decent woman. all politicians are crap but lets not go with the worst possible option since bush. Trump makes Bush look like Einstein.


I would say that Trump uses a lot of hyperbole. There are lies like Bush getting into a trillion dollar war and there are lies like Trump claiming his book is a bestseller. And his claim about true employment numbers being closer to 18-20% isn't that far from the truth.

Let's not talk about Bush. He has caused more damaged to this country than any recent president in memory. Trump is not even close to as dumb as Bush.
I think its dumb to move so far to the right in the republican nominations that he will lose the middle ground.  I also think its dumb to be headline news for making outlandish comments when that gets broadcast to the rest of the world.  If he gets in to power, the US could be in another financial crisis because those crazy comments make him look like a big risk.  The comments about women could lose him the election, or the comments about Putin.  Beating some lame candidates for the republican nomination doesn't mean much if he has ruined his chance of becoming president in the process.  If Trump has an IQ higher than Bush, he is sure doing a great job of hiding it.


The country is already showing small signs of falling into a crisis. Layoffs (Living Social, Doordash, Optimizely) has intensified recently and a number of companies have folded (SpoonRocket). VC funding of tech companies has fallen and it's causing a small panic in the tech arena. If this continues, I wouldn't blame it on the next president.

The media, like the GOP is trying to stop Trump. Rupert Murdock, head of News Corp, who I used to work for, is only running negative headlines on Trump. They have been doing it since late last year once they realized that Trump has a chance. Based on what I've seen of Trump, he's leagues above Bush, who is as dumb as a president can get.

« Reply #48 on: March 16, 2016, 19:30 »
+13
The media don't really have to do anything, the quotes straight from Trumps mouth do all the damage.  I think he is regarded as more of a joke than Bush in the UK.  I never thought there would be a US presidential candidate that appeared to be worse than Bush but Trump has managed it.

« Reply #49 on: March 16, 2016, 20:00 »
+2
to me, a non="american" (ie mexico, usa, cda)...
bill gates is the best person to be president.
he knows what it's like to be a person who works to be great at what he does.
he has track record of philantropy
he can reduce cost by firing all the corrupted politicians
he can run USA with robots

he is already ruling the world with his compute;
why not his own country???


 

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