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Messages - collis

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This year we sent a couple of guys around the world to meet some of the Envato community, including Italian microstocker Ollyi, who is the #2 over on PhotoDune.

Anyhow thought you guys might like to see the trailer we just put out which features a couple of shots of him! Plus I haven't been to these forums in forever :-)

There will be a full Envato Story video on Ollyi next month, so stay tuned!


PhotoDune / 1 Million Photos on PhotoDune
« on: February 28, 2012, 20:44 »
It's been seven months since we launched PhotoDune out of private beta, and I'm excited to announce today that we have now passed a million photos on PhotoDune.

When we set out to create PhotoDune, our intention was always to build a viable option for purchasing photos for our existing buying community. A big part of that goal is having enough depth for buyers to find what they need. While there's nothing specifically magic about a million photos, it feels like a solid indicator that our library is getting to a good size.

Sales on the site have grown since I last posted in November, but the growth hasn't kept pace with the breakneck library expansion. This of course means there's been some sales dilution. This is a normal part of growing a photo library, and not an unexpected one. From here our next focuses are on image quality, more development of the marketplace featureset and lots of sales growth. I'd also expect a slowdown in library growth rate as we certainly aren't planning on making a run on any of the big photo libraries for sheer size!

I'd like to thank all the photographers who've had the confidence in us to upload over the last seven months. It's been an enlightening experience building this marketplace, and I'm looking forward this year to applying a lot of our learnings from PhotoDune back on the rest of our network of marketplaces.

As many of you know PhotoDune is just one of nine Envato Marketplaces and while we've seen some good growth, it's still a tiny fraction of the overall ecosystem. We're close to pushing past 1.5 million members which is pretty amazing since it was only four months ago that we passed a million. Sales growth across our network of marketplaces also continues to climb really, really fast. With PhotoDune having a firm spot in the line-up, it's a stronger group of marketplaces than ever before!

Thank you again to all our photographers who've helped make PhotoDune a success! We'll be working hard to improve and deliver more and better value back to you in the coming months and years! We really appreciate your faith in us!

Envato / Re: envato and copyright
« on: February 13, 2012, 20:19 »
Hey Stormchaser,

With respect to the item mentioned above with watermarked Getty imagery in it, one of our staff has been in touch with the author. The author sent through documentation from a Getty sub-distributor allowing that preview usage of those watermarked photos. Although it's not our intent to provide a full legal review of asset usage, we considered this documentation.  In addition, we haven't received a DMCA takedown notice.  So the item has been reinstated on the site. 

By the way, this is  distinct from use of watermarked items from one Envato marketplace in another Envato marketplace item.  I wouldn't want anyone to think that Getty images can be used without Getty's permission even if watermarked!!

Envato / Re: envato and copyright
« on: February 13, 2012, 17:13 »
Yep they made that change I think as a response to this issue. Their MOD went through on the relevant thread on their forum inserting the fact that they had changed the terms meaning other authors could use your work free of charge as long as it's watermarked.
I assumed they would have let contributors know?
Did they not send out an email or anything telling contributors?
I saw it as a positive change as long a contributors were informed.

ETA: e.g. here
"EDIT By Jordan_M: Its actually a new part of our terms of use that authors can use watermarked photos from PhotoDune as part of their previews without prior permission from the author."

Hey Microbius,

Actually 'new' is a relative term in this context. This part of our terms and conditions has been in there since 2010, so everyone joining PhotoDune would have been agreeing to this when they joined. Our marketplaces date back to 2006 however, so there are lots of authors on the other marketplaces for whom this would be new - as it applies not just to photos used in previews, but for instance audio using in VideoHive previews (which is a common usage).

Hope that clarifies!

Envato / Re: envato and copyright
« on: January 30, 2012, 02:35 »
Hey guys, back with a few more comments!


I think perhaps I should have been clearer in answering your prior question. I was explaining why an image might be used to illustrate a flyer usage, even though the image is not included in the download.

The answer is that it helps the buyer understand usage scenarios for what they are purchasing. But nonetheless the image being used to show these usage scenarios *should* be licensed correctly, I was by no means saying that a photo of P.Diddy would be suitable!

I'm sorry if I wasn't clear in my last message.


I really appreciate you taking the time to give your feedback, so please don't think that there's no point!

I understand you don't feel we are doing enough. We are certainly going to be doing more to educate authors. Community education has gone a long way on other author issues, and I have faith that our community of authors will respond, and in fact already are responding, well to this.

Anyhow, again I appreciate all the feedback you've given in the thread, and its highlighted an area that we are going to work on more in future.


Hey karimala, I think perhaps I've somehow given the wrong impression. By no means do I think that the photographers on Microstockgroup are amateurs or not law-abiding professionals. If there is one thing I've learnt over the years its that photographers are, on the whole, very well informed on the law! My father-in-law is a long practising photographer who gave me a lot of help with this stuff when I was a freelance graphic designer some years ago.

As with my comments above to microbius, I'm sorry you feel frustrated by my responses. I do believe that the tack we are taking will result in our author community being more informed of their obligations and responsibilities, and is the right approach for our marketplaces.


Alright guys, again thank you for all the feedback. I do believe that by and large our authors are doing the right thing, and with some more work we'll make sure they all are informed and help bring new authors similarly up to speed.


Envato / Re: envato and copyright
« on: January 27, 2012, 22:23 »
Hey click_click,

No worries at all! I've been enjoying interacting on Microstockgroup, though I don't have nearly as much time to do so as I'd like!

To be clear, relevant photographs on PhotoDune do require releases. Model and property releases are a distinct issue from copyright issues however.

With copyright, it's important to understand that the DMCA process exists to help sites like ours function without drowning under the weight of checking for every possible copyright issue.

Another question you raised was around why include images and assets in previews that aren't in the final file sold. The simple reason is to demonstrate the products.

A crude analogy is that when you buy a blender from the mall, there will be a picture on the front showing the blender with a bunch of food in it. But you don't expect the food to actually be sold with the blender.

I know that's a bit silly, but it's the same principle. Flyer templates for example will often be shown with multiple different image compositions to demonstrate how the end user would place their own images in.

Anyhow hope those answers help explain a bit more!


Envato / Re: envato and copyright
« on: January 27, 2012, 05:30 »
Hey Collis,

I can't see any mention of what you will do if authors don't update their files? Many authors are now semi-inactive, just enjoying the passive income they've built up, will they even know about this announcement?

Are there any plans to go through the site and re-review, or are you leaving it to the authors to sort their own work out?

Last question, to take a file approved yesterday:

Now I don't think this includes images from film, TV or celebrities - but it does include some images which might not be licensed. Will there be any changes in the review process so people have a bit more confidence in us, or is that being left to the authors too?

My concern is that if it is just left to authors, then opinions like this (which seems entirely justified at the moment):
But after reading this thread it's unfortunately somehow difficult to believe that any of Envato contributors pays for licence.

...wont go away, and that makes me sad - because I'm proud to be an exclusive Envato author.

Hi Pixelbuffet!

Nice to see some long-time Envato authors out here on Microstockgroup - it's a really interesting forum!

Because of our approach to the marketplaces, our policy remains very much that authors are responsible for their work, that we always respond to DMCA takedown notices and do our best to educate authors on their obligations and responsibilities. I'll give some thought to the scenario you mentioned however and raise it with the team.

With respect to reviewers, as I mentioned in the Notes post, we've asked the review team to use more of their discretion in reviewing items. This means for instance they might reject an item with a blatantly obvious photo of a celebrity. However it relies on the reviewer knowing and recognising that celebrity, so is not meant to be a prevention, and does not mean authors should rely on this in any way.

Changes to reviewer policies take a little while to take effect as there are many reviewers working on the marketplaces. So it may be a few days before such rejections start appearing.

The example you gave is a really good illustration of the rabbit hole that we'd end up going down in order to try to vet every asset used on every item that comes into the marketplaces. This is essentially why it is the author's responsibility as the seller to only upload items that are properly licensed.

I know you mentioned wanting others to have confidence in us. I totally agree, and I do honestly believe that our authors by and large are doing the right thing. And where they might not be, that more education will make the difference.

We have put a lot of time and energy in the past into drawing up materials to help authors understand their obligations, but I feel we can do more to draw attention to them. And that's something we're going to be working on.

Thank you for being proud to be an Envato author. And by the way, I like the rebrand from philmo! The little plate icon is awesome!! Though I did always like the old pm logo as well :-) I really need to update my icon on the marketplaces, it's past due!

Envato / Re: envato and copyright
« on: January 27, 2012, 02:07 »
Hi all,

Just stopping in to let you know that we've posted up on our community blog about this issue http://notes.envato.com/general/use-of-assets-in-previews-on-envato-marketplaces/, and across all our forums in response to the issues raised in this thread.

We have also updated some of our wiki information to be clearer and more specific in case there was any misunderstanding.

Most of the items from earlier in the thread (I'm not certain exactly, but I think the first two pages) have been reviewed and where appropriate disabled. Newer links that have been posted about will be looked into shortly, I believe the team is just about to do a pass through these forum posts.

Thanks! ... and on a sidenote, that big beat manifesto was hilarious  :D

Envato / PhotoDune 50% Credit Back Promo is ... Back in january
« on: January 02, 2012, 18:53 »
Hey folks, we're starting to ramp up again after the Christmas/NY vacation, hope all you MSG'ers had a lovely new years!

I'm stopping by just to mention that as of a few minutes ago we've announced another month of our successful November promo where we gave 50% credit back to buyers who purchased through PhotoDune. You can see the announcement here: http://notes.envato.com/news/its-back-get-50-marketplace-credit-back-on-all-photodune-purchases-in-january/

Anyhow I'll be back with more updates later in the month once I've caught up with the deluge of email in my inbox :( Meantime hope things in microstock land are going well!

Envato / Re: PhotoDune Non-ex Rate Increase from 25% to 33%
« on: November 27, 2011, 23:21 »
Hey all! Thanks so much for all the feedback, praise, criticism and comments!

I'm about to go on vacation (to Hawaii!!!!!), so am falling behind with everything in my rush to prepare. So sorry about the long time between replying on my own thread :)

So here are some responses to some of the questions/issues people raised:

(1) Do the Rates Apply to GraphicRiver too?
Yes they do! All our rates on the Envato Marketplaces are across the board. The main concentrations of non-exclusives on our marketplaces are in VideoHive (footage), 3DOcean (3d), AudioJungle (music), GraphicRiver (vectors) and all will get the benefit of the rate bump.

(2) Pricing and License Options
In our first few months we've been doing some experimenting with price and license options. Typically with our sites we try not to make too many changes too fast, so we often wait a while before re-evaluating price points, sizing, license options and so on. I'd say that the current settings are going to be in for a while, but we'll be re-examining them some time next year.

(3) Is 33% a fair rate?
This is an interesting question, and I think you can make a good case either way because percentages are only part of the story.

Some industries pay way less - book authors for example get some pretty low %'s even for exclusive deals. While others pay much more, e.g. Apple pays 70% in its app store which I guess is non-exclusive, though where else you would sell is beyond me.

For me I feel that 33% is better than our old rate of 25%. On that I think we can all agree! Even Microstock Posts seems on board with this assertion :)

As I mentioned in my original post, our tilt at Envato is towards exclusive content. Originally when we entered the audio space with AudioJungle, our marketplace was dominated by non-exclusive authors, however over time many have slowly converted into exclusives, and more have started out that way.

I recognize this may be a completely impractical strategy in photography, and maybe I will be laughed off the forums, but I hope that one day in the future we will have a library with a large portion of exclusive photographic content. How exactly we get there is still a mystery to me. But that's what I am working on anyhow!

In the meantime our focus is getting earnings up for anyone who sells on PhotoDune, and so raising our non-exclusive rate is one way we are trying to achieve that.

(4) How can 95% of our sales be exclusive?
To be clear, most of our *photo* sales are non-exclusive. It's everything else that is exclusive mostly.

PhotoDune is just one of nine Envato Marketplaces, most of which are exclusive dominated. And at least for now PhotoDune is pretty little in the scheme of things over here, and hasn't managed to impact this figure yet. Though I hope that will change! In which case I will likely be reporting a larger % of non-exclusive sales in the future!

Actually even the Envato Marketplaces are just part of our sites. We also operate the Tuts+ tutorial network, the AppStorm network of blogs, and a few other sites. So only about half our traffic goes to the marketplaces, with another 10 million or so visits going elsewhere in our network.

We have a large community around Envato, which is one reason why our sales have been growing well so far! :)

(5) What's with the throttle on forum posting?
A couple of people got the 'wait 10 minutes' post, that will go away once you've been on the site a little while. It's because our sites get a variety of unpleasant spam attacks, so we profile new users and limit their abilities, with those restrictions disappearing over time (or when you buy an item, because we haven't encountered spammers prepared to pay for things yet :)

Still a good point about not wiping out the content so you can resubmit in 10minutes. I'll mention that to the guys to get fixed, thanks jsnover for the suggestion!


Thanks guys for all the posts and comments! I particularly liked Microstock Posts bird poop post, though I really hope that's not how we come across!

Smithore usually gives me some good comments, but I think he's on vacation at the moment. So in his absence, I will make a mental note that when we've won over Microstock Posts, we've finally made it in the world of stock photography :)

Well on that note, I am off on vacation, so will be offline for a while. A few of our other staff have been popping in here now and again, so you should still hear from PhotoDune/Envato staff. Of course you are all welcome to come over to PhotoDune's forums as well ;)

Envato / Re: PhotoDune Non-ex Rate Increase from 25% to 33%
« on: November 21, 2011, 15:27 »
Almost forgot - here's a little graph of our sales on PhotoDune (from the numbers in the post above). Some things are better shown in image form :)

Envato / PhotoDune Non-ex Rate Increase from 25% to 33%
« on: November 21, 2011, 15:25 »
Hello MSG'ers!

A few months ago when we launched PhotoDune, I promised here that we would be discussing our non-exclusive rates after the three month mark had passed. And I'm happy to announce that the Envato board met, and came to a decision to increase the non-exclusive rates up from 25% to 33%. This will go into effect on December 1st and will be across all of the nine Envato Marketplaces, which includes of course PhotoDune. This will be the fourth rate increase and first non-exclusive rate change in our five year history!

As I've mentioned previously our marketplaces are heavily slanted towards exclusive content. In fact less than 5% of our sales come from non-exclusive authors. Since we believe that any rate we offer one marketplace should be the same across all the marketplaces, this influences the size of the increment.

This bump will mean that photo contributors will be earning about a third more off each sale, and you should really be able to feel the difference in your monthly earnings on PhotoDune and our other marketplaces.

You can read about the full announcement over on Envato Notes (our community blog) http://notes.envato.com/general/non-exclusive-rates-increasing-to-33-on-december-1st/

PhotoDune Sales, Items and General Update

Gunnar reminded me the other day that last month I missed out on giving an update about our progress. PhotoDune has continued to zip along and the stats keep getting bigger. I'm still in awe of how many photos are out there in the world of microstock photography!

We now have over 400,000 photos up for sale, with the last three months adding 40k, 70k and 100k new photos respectively. So a good solid trend seems to be occurring with contributions growing very quickly.

We now have around 500 authors with at least one sale, and our top author Yuri has just passed his 5000th sale. In fact, in case you didnt know we have an author ladder where you can see how different authors are stacking up. Its quite fun to watch as the sales have been mounting up - http://photodune.net/author/top_authors

On the subject of unit sales, the total PhotoDune sales count for our five months is:

  • July Private Beta - 1,760
  • August - 4,191
  • September - 7,369
  • October - 8,793 + 6,396 bundle sales
  • November - 14,908

(For November, I've divided the current number by the number of days passed and then multiplied by 30. So it's extrapolated out on a simple base. I think it may actually be higher as we keep getting bigger with each passing week).
We've been doing lots of marketing for the new site with a successful photo and graphic bundle in October that sold close to $130,000 worth. We also ran a big series of photo effects tutorials over on our Photoshop blog Psdtuts+ http://psd.tutsplus.com showcasing what you can do with PhotoDune images. And right now we're running a promotion where buyers get 50% of their November spend back as marketplace credit to spend again in December.

Here on MSG we've gotten some great feedback (as well as some healthy criticism!) and in case you hadn't seen I thought I'd share a couple of quotes from MSG photographers:

"... I am very pleased with PDune. They are the most innovative of all the newer sites. They're creatively and aggressively marketing their image collection." - LisaFX (Full Comment - http://www.microstockgroup.com/photodune/photodune-50-credit-back-on-all-photo-purchases-in-nov/msg225369/#msg225369)

"... PhotoDune has done me proud, especially for a new agency. Thanks to that bundle, they're my third biggest earner for the year despite having only five months of earnings, and my ninth biggest earner since I started with microstock. Nobody has come out of the gate with numbers like that." - Disorderly (Full Comment - http://www.microstockgroup.com/photodune/photodune-50-credit-back-on-all-photo-purchases-in-nov/msg225403/#msg225403)

So hooray for some kind words from Lisa and Disorderly :-)

Stuff We're Still Working On

Of course we're still n00bs in the world of stock photography and we have *tons* of stuff to learn. Right now some of the things we are working on, or are planning to work on are:

  • Our reviewers are getting slammed again thanks to the consistent increases in submissions. Just when we thought we were on top of the content, it's amped up all over again. Our valiant Microstock Solutions team is wrestling with the queue as we speak, and I'm certain we'll get it back down in short order.
  • We had a spate of upload problems about a week ago due in part to PhotoDune, but largely due to the rest of the marketplaces growing as well. It's been another huge year at Envato, and the platform just keeps levelling up in size. Unfortunately the upload and performance problems were timed with an upgrade to our support system which was a case of super bad timing. So while the support team was busy learning our new system, we hit them with a whole bunch of authors wondering what was happening with uploads. Thankfully the problems are mostly resolved and Drew and his support team pulled some big days and are in control of support again
  • I've been seeing a lot of feedback about the way we handle model releases. This is clearly an area we need to work on and is going to need some attention in the new year.

And of course we're always working on more marketing to drive the site along and sell our awesome pool of content. Recently one of our team (Fuad, who is actually my Dad!) went to the Microstock Expo (http://www.microstockexpo.com/) and polled some of the contributors attending the conference about what was most important for a new agency. The near unanimous response was that marketing of images trumped everything else. This has really cemented in our minds that marketing is the most important thing we can be doing for PhotoDune. Happily it's one of our strengths :)

We're really proud to have jumped into the big world of stock photography, and we're extremely excited by the results so far. We hope that this non-exclusive rate bump will reward those of you who have already chosen to upload with PhotoDune and that we'll be able to continue to deliver good returns to you. Thank you to you guys for giving us a try, we really appreciate your time and input.

Envato / Re: PhotoDune September Stats & Update
« on: November 16, 2011, 22:21 »
Hey Gunnar! Good point, I had to travel for a family emergency the last couple of weeks and am a bit behind with all my work. I'll be back next week with a proper update!!

Envato / Re: Photodune, Thoughts?
« on: November 08, 2011, 20:14 »
Well I may be completely and utterly biased, but I think PhotoDune is awesome  ;D

But on a serious note, our GraphicRiver upload process is still our old uploading system. When we built PhotoDune this year we built in several platform upgrades which we are now rolling out across the other sites. Specifically it has a different review queue, search engine and upload system. So little by little we are transitioning the other sites over now.

In that sense PhotoDune has been immensely good for us as it's been teaching the company about scale of content. In many of our other areas - e.g. themes - it's impressive to have say 1300 WordPress themes. That makes us the biggest collection of WP themes online as far as I know. But of course 1300 photos is not so impressive :)

Anyhow I will definitely post back here when the GR uploading system is transitioned over!

Envato / Re: Missing Sample Images
« on: November 03, 2011, 21:06 »
Hi Smithore, that's great to hear, I hope we can do a good job with your images!

With Phillip's issue, he was uploading JPGs rather than a ZIP file (with some compressed JPGs inside). Are you maybe doing the same thing? Our system should probably give better error messages so you can tell what is happening. I'll get someone to look into it!

Envato / Re: Missing Sample Images
« on: October 31, 2011, 05:44 »
Hey Phillip, I've just sent you an email, figured that was an easier route to take.

Image Sleuth / Re: PhotoDune Bundle images on Pirate site
« on: October 30, 2011, 18:54 »
Oh and totally forgot to say ... I'll pass this on to Ibrahim (the anti-piracy guy!)

Image Sleuth / Re: PhotoDune Bundle images on Pirate site
« on: October 30, 2011, 18:49 »
Ah pirates :( The depressing thing is they often seem to think they are doing some sort of public service by 'liberating' files.

Unfortunately as a few people have mentioned this stuff is super common. We have a staffer dedicated to sending takedown notices and the like, which has some effect. My personal view is that if the music industry, who have thrown so much money at the problem, can't stop piracy, it's unlikely to change anytime soon.

Still, we'll keep doing what we can!!

Envato / Re: Missing Sample Images
« on: October 30, 2011, 18:33 »
Hey Phil, just a quick update that I'm getting a dev to look into this today! More to report shortly

Envato / Re: Missing Sample Images
« on: October 28, 2011, 18:09 »
Hey Phillip, that sounds like an odd situation, do you mean you've uploaded images for the portfolio review? (i.e. to become a contributor) or is this uploading to sell? What is your username? I'll see if I can figure it out - though it is the weekend so it may take me a day or two!

Envato / Re: PhotoDune / GraphicRiver Bundle - $128,000 of sales
« on: October 28, 2011, 18:07 »
oh phew! Yes you're right, I went and double checked our payout schedule and the payouts were in the $630s if it was a $5 size, and $880s if it was a $7 size, and I think we had one photo that was a $3 size which was like $380 or thereabouts.

Had me worried I was falsely claiming things there for a moment!  :-\  :)

Envato / Re: PhotoDune / GraphicRiver Bundle - $128,000 of sales
« on: October 28, 2011, 16:49 »
Oh sorry, my math is obviously a bit crappier than I thought! It's the price of the item divided by the total prices x 50% x total sales. If $630 was what was being paid out, I've obviously done some poor calculations. Sorry! My Bad!

I've updated the post!

(Meanwhiles, would you believe I actually, literally have a degree in math! D'oh!!!!!)

Envato / PhotoDune / GraphicRiver Bundle - $128,000 of sales
« on: October 28, 2011, 00:05 »
I completely forgot to come and report back about our big PhotoDune/GraphicRiver bundle that we ran earlier in October. I think I mentioned it a month ago that we were about to run it.

As you may recall, we split all our bundles 50% with authors, and the authors then split their half according to the ticket price of their items. So things worth more, get a larger cut.

Well the "Graphic Designer Bundle" which featured 42 photos and a whole heap of stuff from GraphicRiver, sold $128,000 in the space of 5 days.

Each photo that was included netted its contributor between $630 and $880 depending on the size that was included. There were about 30 different contributors who had photos in the bundle. You can see the photos and contributors here: http://photodune.net/bundles/graphicdesigner I think overall it was pretty successful!

We run bundles every 2 months, but with different marketing spins. For example the next one is for game developers so is all audio, Unity3D, low poly 3d models etc. However some time next year I'd anticipate that photos will make another appearance in a bundle, and of course every year on our birthday we put out a birthday bundle which is a sampler of all our sites.

Anyhow, just thought people might be interested to know how the bundles work, and how much they can pay :-)

Hi folks,

Lots of interesting discussion as ever on MSG! :)

In many ways ppdd is correct about our userbase and traffic pool. Additionally we are here for the long haul, and are cautious. All our ventures are bootstrapped and so we're careful about making changes incrementally and iteratively.

I suspect ppdd is also right about the growth ceiling. At the end of the day stock photos is fairly locked up. There is a lot of momentum behind the large stock photo sites, a fact that I think causes so much chagrin because sometimes they make decisions based on that momentum that aren't favourable to contributors. In any case our intention is to build a solid offering that is valuable to our member base, and provides a solid revenue stream to those contributors who choose to upload.

We are going to keep chipping away, and as I've said before, I hope we will slowly (and I do mean slowly :) ) win more and more of you over!

Sorry Collins I just noticed an error in your message: The sentence "Contributors get their usual commissions on all purchases." should read "Independent contributors get their usual insultingly low commission on all purchases". ;)

lol, it's all in the eye of the beholder Eco! :)

Hi everybody,

Just to say PhotoDune for me now is one of the most important agency, because I sell there since September and for this two months have sales as Dreamstime, Fotolia or 123RF have

For example this month at Dreamstime I have 18 sales (307 images portfolio) but in Photodune 27 sales (420 images portfolio)

May be I have specific images which sells good in Photodune, because in BigStock I have just 3 sales  (613 images portfolio)

Go ahead PhotoDune You are the new superstar in this business!

That's great news deyangeorgiev. We're working hard to keep PhotoDune growing. We're still overall much smaller than those agencies, so I'm glad that at least we're delivering good returns for our authors already.

Thank you for giving us a try!  8)

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