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Messages - Evaristo tenscadisto

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26
Off Topic / Re: I will never use AI
« on: November 25, 2023, 09:37 »
I couldn't agree more with Cobalt.

Josephine.... let me ask your question from another perspective: is it fair with the technology we have today to have to take days or years to create a work of art?

I still like using the old methods but I think it's unfair that I can't use the best that technology has to offer.

Therefore what stops you as an illustrator from using this technology to create 100 coloring books instead of just 1 coloring book?
Isn't selling 100 books on Amazon better than 1? 

The feeling of loss of power when faced with new things is understandable, but the fear of new things is easily overcome by learning new tools. During my academic career I was trained to be open-minded, that things are always changing and that is why training and learning are a lifetime experience instead a partial time of our lives.

Tutorials, E-learning, Workshops, Seminars, Senior Universities are some of the new ways to keep training and learning. I hope you consider some of the new learning methods.

27
Off Topic / Re: I will never use AI
« on: November 25, 2023, 01:25 »
Personally, I have no interest in doing AI. I enjoy wandering around with my camera and shooting what catches my eye.

Sometimes I get to meet other photographers doing the same and we have a good chat.

Of course, stock isn't a major income stream for me so I get to pick and choose.

I will not antagonize what can also be fun to do or experience with AI but for those who have no interest in doing AI... It is not a prophecy that all cameras will have AI very soon and i am not talking about enhance AI like focus and stabilize. Cameras will be able to set different realistic backgrounds in real time and combine perfectly with your model and light exposure.

Also, AI in Drones and Smartphones will be able to frame and capture pictures that "he" thinks its best so humans can avoid hazard risk environments or enjoy the family moments more instead spending time in clicking (i actually enjoy doing it).

I have seen also a big advance on Image Edit tools with AI. For example we can draw in a very naive way, i mean like childlike drawing just a tree with house and sun and AI will transform it in a gorgeous photographic landscape just like Midjourney outputs now with text to image.

In short: I still love my analog Nikon F too and whether we like it or not AI will be in all processes of making an image.

28
Off Topic / Re: I will never use AI
« on: November 25, 2023, 01:21 »
Many talk about selling AI images. For private use ist o.k. but not for the purpose of making money on other peoples intellectual property.

I will never use AI. Anybody else on this forum? If I would do so, I am no longer myself but a thief.

What if there was at some point some AI that you could train on only your own photos?

Thank you for raising that question. You can!
Actually before midjourney or dall-e was a thing we could already do it with via github/huggin face, or stable diffusion. At the time the results were not the best if we consider the output and user interface of the big companies. Since last 2 years a lot of people trained several type models and it's free.

It's hard to understand Generative AI is stealing which in fact is learning. Algorithms learn color, lines, shapes and dimension of things. Pretty similar like humans do. In a way since Art begin all artists have learn (stolen) styles from others. They have learned and developed a unique combination of that preview styles. We call it influences of an Artist which outputs a way of human experience. But if a machine can train and learn the same way some people call it steal.

If we consider machine learning to be stealing, perhaps computers shouldn't exist. Let me remind that copy/paste function is more enabled to be stealing someone's work than an unique generative AI image made from output learning. ;)

29
Off Topic / Re: I will never use AI
« on: November 22, 2023, 19:17 »
Many talk about selling AI images. For private use ist o.k. but not for the purpose of making money on other peoples intellectual property.

I will never use AI. Anybody else on this forum? If I would do so, I am no longer myself but a thief.

Sorry to know you feel that way.  best of luck with your thoughts....







30
General Stock Discussion / Re: Keywording and meta data GPT
« on: November 16, 2023, 07:46 »
Hello guys,

I have created a GPT to generate meta data for our stock images:
https://chat.openai.com/g/g-RlTKUHzlr-image-metadata-guru

You can upload your image and it will give you Title, Keywords in the order of importance, description, category and it will also notify you if there is any visible trademark or logo related issue with the image. It is not supporting editorial content.

You will need a subscription to use it. Let me know what you think about it.

It sounds great but I can't upgrade at the moment to test it. When i push the button to upgrade plus it says  "Due to High demand,  we've temporarily paused the upgrades".

The only choice is sign up for waiting list... I hope it doesn't take too long... 

31
General - Stock Video / Re: 1080p video still worth to produce?
« on: November 12, 2023, 06:08 »
The vast majority of my video sales are HD. In fact, Ive never sold any 4k videos at 4k prices. I did sell 2 or 3 4k videos through Adobe Stock but I only got about $5 each for them.

Out of curiosity, is there much demand for 4096 x 2304 footage? I don't suppose anyone has sold any 4096 x 2304 clips?

I sold just one. last year. 
Getting a feeling that clients will upscale video with ai tools if they need.

32
I only stayed for one (wix) and it works as a kind of presentation of who I am with some promotional videos showing the diversity of work i can do. In the videos I leave a link where you can buy those and other clips or 2d/3d animations.

Could you share your website? Where those links point to? Microstocks?


On the website I only promote microstock work videos with buttons linked to microstock sites. And I only have a small bio, which in this case is more focused on work done solely in the visual arts. Everything is more or less linked between the website, microstock sites and social networks
 
I kind of structured it this way:

.promotional videos of some of my work on a Vimeo account linked to my website;
.promotional videos of microstock work on another Vimeo and YouTube account linked to my website
.social networks* where I promote some AI work or animations linked to my website
.Opensea account (Nft's) linked to the website and vice versa

. Microstock sites also linked to the website and social networks


*Note:linkedin, insta, x, tiktok and FB are the ones I use more...

33
Hi folks

Luisa Fumi (aka gameover) wrote an interesting story about her experience with self-hosting here: https://xpiksapp.com/blog/selling-images-on-your-website/

Please let us know what do you think and maybe you also have a story to share? Will be definitely useful for others!

Cheers,
Taras

Lumi's journey through the various websites that she created to explore self-hosting in the microstock market is very interesting. Thank you for sharing the link.
My case is different.
I only stayed for one (wix) and it works as a kind of presentation of who I am with some promotional videos showing the diversity of work i can do. In the videos I leave a link where you can buy those and other clips or 2d/3d animations. Probably I am even more lazy and prefer not to have to deal with marketing, web design and self hosting. Instead i like invest my time in being creative - after all, it's what I enjoy most.  :)



34
If you use "remove background" in PS does the image get tagged as AI and therefore create problems if you submit as Stock?

I think its just if you use generative AI. Unless you shoot in old cameras the new ones already have AI features like they can recognize and track objects, adjust settings based on the scene, and improve image quality through noise reduction and enhanced sharpness.

Almost everything has AI nowadays... And to be honest, I can't wait for my stove and pan to cook MasterChef recipes for me.  :)

I am not aware of any new cameras having AI features (yet).

Some people keep confusing AI with the broad term of technology and automation, but it is not the same.

AI can deal with conceptual ideas and uncertainty, and can analyze and apply new information to react to new situations.

Automation technology follows rules to handle straightforward tasks, and cant react to new situations. This includes things like noise reduction, object tracking or sharpness enhancement.

In terms of what an AI camera is, it is a type of computational photography. It consists of the real-time processing of data to make decisions.
It's not automation technology, but maybe you're right for some of the new cameras that have incorporated the AI label into their cameras.
Anyway i google it for AI Cameras and here is the list of cameras that comes to me in search:

    Nikon: Z8 & Z9 all compression including HE* compression.
    Canon: R6 Mk II, R50, R8.
    Sony: A7R V, ZV-1M2, ZV-E1.
    Olympus: OM-5.
    Fujifilm: X-H2, X-T5, X-S20.
    Hasselblad: X2D, Stellar.
    Leica: Q3.
    Google: Pixel 7 Pro, 7a.

In Sony youtube channel they present sony A7R V  like that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s34OGZtgc3U

"In addition to the advanced image processing engine, the α7R V features a new AI processing unit that is dedicated to artificial intelligence processing, including deep learning. State-of-the-art AI processing uses detailed information about human skeleton forms and poses to dramatically improve the cameras subject recognition accuracy and make full use of its potential resolution AI subject recognition has been expanded to include a number of new subject types, including vehicles and insects"

Also with google search i found interesting this article about AI cameras: https://expertphotography.com/ai-camera/



35
If you use "remove background" in PS does the image get tagged as AI and therefore create problems if you submit as Stock?

I think its just if you use generative AI. Unless you shoot in old cameras the new ones already have AI features like they can recognize and track objects, adjust settings based on the scene, and improve image quality through noise reduction and enhanced sharpness.

Almost everything has AI nowadays... And to be honest, I can't wait for my stove and pan to cook MasterChef recipes for me.  :)

36
It's no big secret sauce but to keep it simple I made a template
This is interesting!
May I ask you more details about this? How a template can be adapted to many different images (or clips)?
Is it necessary to have the pay version or it can also be done with the free chatGPT?
Thanks

I use the free version. you don't need to pay.
The template is not about code or anything programmed. 

Although these days requesting tasks on chatgpt is a kind of programming the template that i created is just a set of tasks followed by considerations that I ask  chat GPT to take into account before performing the work. Then I add to that the list of 50-100 clips with the names I rendered. Clip names are simply basic descriptions of what the clip contains.

If you are going to create one keep in mind simple tasks with direct instructions. Don't use to much "Considerations" to perform the work. One for technical aspects and one for behavior/subjective aspects is enough. If you put more you start making entropy for chatgpt and you start getting redundancy in the feedback of your keywords. Less is more accurate if well defined at the begin.

In short the template structure is:
1 - Purpose of task
2 - Simple tasks with direct instructions (i only use 5 tasks)
3 - Considerations/work performance (How the work will be done by chatgpt in terms of Form and Content)
4 - List (list of names described. i use 50 or 100)

Hope it helps you.  ;)
 


37
What query did you use to get "good" keywords, and how many were you able to get at a time?

I've found generally speaking the results have been inconsistent, and limited. How were you able to get good results?

It's easy to ask all community than actually use a tool called search for it first isn't it?

Have you tried using your own tip? Did you find in search any results relevant to microstocks?

I'm asking about a personal experience, relevant to microstocks. Not "how to use ChatGPT for photography".

Probably i was not clear since i was trying to make a joke and respond to you at same time what you are asking. But I can guarantee that the joke is not on you but on the situation: it involves AI and the type of responses that Chatgpt sometimes makes if you ask him to play a role.

This time I'm going to try to keep more unboxed: Yes. ChatGPT AI actually creates good keywords. My advice/tip is use it!

However i did try to ask Chatgpt, without role playing,  your question.
Here is the result:

"As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, ChatGPT, like other AI models, was not typically used in the context of microstock photography or similar industries. Microstock refers to the sale of stock photos, illustrations, and other digital media through online platforms, often for a lower cost than traditional stock photography.

However, AI and machine learning technologies have been applied in various ways in the field of photography. This might include image recognition, automated tagging, and content recommendation systems. These technologies can help streamline the process of managing and searching for stock images, but it's typically not the AI model like ChatGPT that is directly involved in these tasks.

If there have been any developments or specific applications of ChatGPT or similar AI models in the microstock industry since my last update, I would not have that information. I recommend checking with the latest industry news or consulting with professionals in the field for the most up-to-date information on AI usage in microstock and related sectors."

I'm sorry to hear that you're not having a good experience with chat gpt but for me its been great. I have been using for almost a year now and I've been getting good results.  Sometimes I change 4 or 5 out of 40. 

It's no big secret sauce but to keep it simple I made a template where I give the instructions. it improves my title and gives me 40 keywords, not just descriptive ones, but conceptual and emotional ones where the clip can also be used. Therefore, not only can be used for documentary but also for storytelling and other point of views. In the instructions I set to do it for 50-100 or different clips at once.

In just over ten seconds I have all the work done by chatgpt where I only analyze and rectify those that I think are exaggerated for the image/video. In less than 15 minutes I made close to 250 different clips where I practically only lost time copy pasting from one side (chat gpt) to the other (website). Probably 15 minutes is overkill... maybe 5-7 minutes will be more realistic.

With the old methods of self-generating in microstock website or using a keywording tools, i will waste more time. much more time! I really recommend it especially for those which English is not the native language. They can write in their own language and have the work in perfect English with good and refined keywords.

Anyway if chatgpt doesn't work for you, then use other "guitar" that works best. ;)

38
General - Stock Video / Re: 1080p video still worth to produce?
« on: October 25, 2023, 19:20 »
Probably I'm going to say what we all already know...

Content is king regardless of the format or type of capture and in many cases even with technical errors and without a tripod it sells better than other more perfect "candy" ones.

I have nearly 30K of footage and 2D/3D animation clips involving a range of formats from HD to 16K.
 
Close to 95% sales is HD, the rest distributed across the remaining formats. For me, I don't think it's even worth uploading 4K anymore or at least in next few years, something I've been thinking about abandoning because it takes up a lot of space on my hard drives (more than 40TB) between renders and raw files.

Also definitely thinking of abandoning timelapses. Although i sell some it simply does not pay me the costs.
I rather press button for "real time" footage, edit a little and preferably upload HD. Maybe leave a note in the clip description that I have other resolutions and get in touch if there is interest.








39
It's easy to ask all community than actually use a tool called search for it first isn't it?

Have you tried using your own tip? Did you find in search any results relevant to microstocks?

I'm asking about a personal experience, relevant to microstocks. Not "how to use ChatGPT for photography".

Probably i was not clear since i was trying to make a joke and respond to you at same time what you are asking. But I can guarantee that the joke is not on you but on the situation: it involves AI and the type of responses that Chatgpt sometimes makes if you ask him to play a role.

This time I'm going to try to keep more unboxed: Yes. ChatGPT AI actually creates good keywords. My advice/tip is use it!

However i did try to ask Chatgpt, without role playing,  your question.
Here is the result:

"As of my last knowledge update in September 2021, ChatGPT, like other AI models, was not typically used in the context of microstock photography or similar industries. Microstock refers to the sale of stock photos, illustrations, and other digital media through online platforms, often for a lower cost than traditional stock photography.

However, AI and machine learning technologies have been applied in various ways in the field of photography. This might include image recognition, automated tagging, and content recommendation systems. These technologies can help streamline the process of managing and searching for stock images, but it's typically not the AI model like ChatGPT that is directly involved in these tasks.

If there have been any developments or specific applications of ChatGPT or similar AI models in the microstock industry since my last update, I would not have that information. I recommend checking with the latest industry news or consulting with professionals in the field for the most up-to-date information on AI usage in microstock and related sectors."






 

40
It's easy to ask all community than actually use a tool called search for it first isn't it? eheheh
i give you a clue. use it. ;)

Topic: ChatGPT AI Actually creates good keywords

41
Selling Stock Direct / Re: The game is rigged!! 🤬
« on: October 21, 2023, 02:58 »
From what I understand your website is based in Andorra la Vella. I know it very well as I spent more than 15 years descending the mountains Soldeu, el tarter, Canillho on Snowboard or ski  ;).

You are a producer so you know the price cost of filming, equipment, etc...right?
Now here is the problem: I know the price of things there in Andorra and you cannot even buy a coffee to the contributor after you made a premium clip sale to him. Are you following my point?

in short: It's not cheap subs but it's cheap deal for a contributor point of view.

Sorry Frank, but I don't see joining your site from a contributor perspective since i really value my work more than you can offer me at the time.
Perhaps as a client I would be attracted to your clips just for a specific project nothing more.

Anyway, good luck to your site!
Best Regards!

42
In short, if an P5 exclusive Contributor upload to SS he will be held hostage to the prices SS wants on both platforms despite being exclusive in P5 and will receive much less in terms of RPD.

Actually that does not appear to be the case.  The P5 Contributor agreement section for Exclusives specifically excludes SS and its companies as Other Marketplaces subject to the P5 price matching.

I PCDMedia i think you're right!

I am reading both Agreements now (old and new) and i find no difference in article "3. Pricing and Your Share of Net License Revenue", section 3a, V.  "notwithstanding anything to the contrary provided in this Section 3.a., you shall not set the price for an item of Content that is higher than the lowest price for which the same (or substantially the same) Content item is offered by or on any other media marketplace, agency or other redistribution arrangement (each an "Other Marketplace"), and if we discover that the Content item is offered at a lower price by or on any Other Marketplace, we may lower the price in our marketplace to match or beat that price."

Although i find something NEW in article 4 "Exclusivity Program for Video", f) :  "Unless and until the Exclusive Period is terminated under the prior paragraph e., you will not offer, market, license or provide any video Content or any Similar Footage to, on or through any Other Marketplace; provided, that for purposes of this Section 4.f neither Shutterstock, Inc. nor any member of the Shutterstock group of companies shall be deemed included in the term "Other Marketplace".

So as far as i understand it means you can upload SS or SS group of companies and we don't have Match pricing going on for exclusive P5 with SS  because its not consider other marketplace. Nevertheless i think this should be clarified in article 3a V and not just in 4.f

If the price that SS puts is lower, and it is always lower, I think customers will buy the clip wherever they find it cheaper because that's what I always do and I don't consider myself smarter than others. It's just very easy to search for the image on Google or with price shop devices and see which one has the cheapest price.

As exciting as the news is, I will not upload to SS. I think I'll leave everything as it is, wait and see  ;)





 


 




43
For those who have Exclusive account in P5 these news might be a kind of a trap... 

A practical example:

Based on production, equipment and post-production costs, an exclusive contributor can mark a clip at P5 at 100$ and if it sells, the earn is 60% or 60$.

Now with this exciting opportunity, SS marks the clip usually at 59$ but the contributor only earns close to 8$ if we consider a level 1 earning breakdown of 15%. However, this adds to the problem that P5's contract highlights that if the clip is on sale for a lower price then P5 will be able to do Match pricing.

In short, if an P5 exclusive Contributor upload to SS he will be held hostage to the prices SS wants on both platforms despite being exclusive in P5 and will receive much less in terms of RPD.


44
"FLEX 10 Annual Subscription, Monthly. By signing up for a free trial of an annual subscription plan, you agree that Shutterstock will automatically charge the monthly subscription fee 29 to your payment method every month for 12 months until your subscription has expired, unless you cancel before the end of your free trial.By purchasing you agree to the Shutterstock License Agreement, or a separate written agreement in effect with Shutterstock."

The scam is in the wording. It's deliberately ambiguous. The bolded part makes it sound as if someone will be charged monthly, not the full annual price up front.

OK thanks I understand now. I also got the idea that it would be billed monthly and not a one off annual payment.

So if I understood correctly in this case it is a matter of purchasing a subscription service valid for 12 months and not a 1 month subscription service with automatic revalidation for 12 months although they present the idea that it is the second through so-called "dirty" marketing.

Normally when we press the "proceed to checkout" button we are taken to a page where the total amount to be paid appears to validate with a code sent to smartphone before the payment is actually made. It is at this time of payment that the total value and VAT for the purchase must appear, which differs greatly from 29 to 348. Anyway, the total amount to be paid should  appear on the page where we entered the card data.

It sounds like a desperate move by SS to sell subscriptions. I'm curious to see the company's next report as the shares fall in the last 6 months from $76 to $42.


45
I know that old habits die hard and that people are relying on SS for income. But just know that over the past year or so, SS has been literally scamming customers.

Scam #1: Customers are misled into thinking that if they sign up for a one month trial, they'll be billed monthly afterward. Instead, they are billed for the entire year. When they try to cancel, they're hit with a massive cancellation fee.

Scam #2: Customers are misled into thinking that cancellation is hassle free. Instead, customers continue to get billed the annual fee.

You can read complaints here: https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.shutterstock.com

I know that user review sites don't tend to be reliable, but customers were angry enough to file complaints with the BBB: https://www.bbb.org/us/ny/new-york/profile/digital-media/shutterstock-inc-0121-81420/customer-reviews


I don't use SS much often... Actually i don't like them for contributor reasons. Anyway I think I bought 3 or 4 clips from them since pandemic.
I was curious so I just tried to sign up for the free trial to see what you were talking. When i click the sign up free trial, where you fill up the credit card info it is explained in order summary, on the right side the following (written in small letters):

"FLEX 10 Annual Subscription, Monthly. By signing up for a free trial of an annual subscription plan, you agree that Shutterstock will automatically charge the monthly subscription fee 29 to your payment method every month for 12 months until your subscription has expired, unless you cancel before the end of your free trial.By purchasing you agree to the Shutterstock License Agreement, or a separate written agreement in effect with Shutterstock."

I am not really a subscription person since i shop my clips around all microstock sites but i don't see the "scam" the reviewers were talking only contract written in small letters. Maybe they update this info Order summary in last 10 days.

Best lesson i learn here i would say to avoid subscriptions plans in everything I can and nothing is free specially trials where we must put our credit card info.  ;)
 


46
I'm reaching out because I recently joined Pond 5 as a contributor, and I could use some advice. Despite having 900 videos in my portfolio, I haven't made any sales yet. It's been a bit discouraging, to be honest.
If you have any suggestions or tips on improving my chances of making sales on Pond 5, I would greatly appreciate it. Perhaps you've been in a similar situation before and found some strategies that worked for you. Any insights you can offer would be invaluable to me.
Here is my portfolio : https://www.pond5.com/artist/just_necessary
1. There will be very few sales on such a portfolio. Although Venice is promising, it will take a year or more to wait for sales.
2. Video amateur.
3. Buy a tripod and a gimbal, everything is not stable in your frame.
4. Venice is all editorial, and editorial is rarely bought. Understand that stocks are work, you dont need to shoot only the editorial. Or you need post-processing, to blur trademarks, people's faces.
5. Before you shoot something, look at the same Pond5 to see how others have similar shots. Sorting by popular will show you the videos that get the most buys.
6. As a start, it will do. Other sites may have more sales.
7. In your case, 900 videos is about nothing. Bring your portfolio to at least 6,000 videos.
8. Your videos don't have enough tags, add up to 50.

And raise your prices!   $27 USD for a 4K clip is way too low.  Low/lowering footage prices has never been conclusively shown to be effective in attracting/boosting sales.

i do agree with  suggestions however in my case I only buy Video Amateur specially with no gimbal or tripod. It's more authentic and less "candy" for what i need which is documentary footage. Sometimes it's better to make a difference in a niche like video amateur rather than go for pro videos although the potential for sales it seems superior if you invest in such equipment.

Also it's important to be aware of the other side of the coin: what it might seem trash for you can be gold to others.




 

47
Off Topic / Re: This should settle some different opinions
« on: July 23, 2023, 10:09 »
This should settle some different opinions... i google and find interesting these relaxing and calming exercises:

A) Take a break. Focus on your breathing. Listen to music.
B) Spend some time in nature. Try active relaxation. Think of somewhere else.
C) Try guided meditation. Get creative.

 :)

48
Off Topic / Re: This should settle some different opinions
« on: July 21, 2023, 15:01 »

Who is the greater killer and criminal, then who directly kills or the one who stands, looks at the process, has every opportunity to stop and eliminate the killer, but at the same time either does nothing or gives the victim some items so that the victim is not killed very quickly?

Sorry to be so upfront. I'm not trying to offend you but confront you with the reality of things because what you write shows little appreciation for the GIANT help that the West is giving Ukraine. I think you should stop doing childish rhetoric. It looks ridiculous, ofensive and of poor character content.

Maybe we shouldn't really help that much if we compare other factors:

The volume of aid is three times greater than the estimates that the UN makes about the resources needed to deal with hunger in the world each year...

Military aid for Ukraine is still more than twice the volume of resources that humanitarian agencies request so that, in 2023, they can come to the rescue of 230 million people in 69 countries that are experiencing deep social, natural and armed conflict problems, including Haiti and Venezuela...

Both in Europe and in the US, pressure is growing from a section of society and political leaders in view of the price that the populations of these two parts of the world would be suffering due to the sanctions against Moscow and support for the Ukrainians. Not coincidentally, both Biden and European leaders used the latest speeches to frame the involvement in Ukraine as a struggle for democracy.

Advice for healthy, empathetic communication: deep breath, listen more and talk less.

49
Off Topic / Re: This should settle some different opinions
« on: July 15, 2023, 12:55 »
You don't know history. In 1917-1922, Ukraine also fought with Russia for its independence. Ukraine lost because it did not receive assistance from European countries. So, for several years, the Russians turned on propaganda and made the Ukrainians fight for Russia.
The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians, and this can be seen even in this forum. I am not sure that NATO will be able to fight effectively in the situation that I have drawn. You must understand that this situation is very real and well known in both Washington and Brussels, and that is why Ukraine is getting at least some help.

Before claim that "i don't know History" you should start reading the book i mention which is exactly a kind of Military history book that even Napoleon used and take notes for its wars. In fact is still used today in military academies or in Universities of politic science. where do you think the phrase divide to conquer comes from? The maxim "divide et impera" has been attributed to Philip II of Macedon. It was utilised by the Roman ruler Julius Caesar and the French emperor Napoleon (together with the maxim divide ut regnes) which you can learn all of it in the book that i mentioned.

You will also find other one: "There are only two ways to lead: you either divide and conquer, or you build and unite.

I don't know all the History but i do know that First World War was from 28 July 1914 till 11 November 1918. Knowing that FACT it's easy to think and understand why during 1917-1922 Ukraine was not assisted.

I think EU and NATO is very aware of the reality and that's why we all are helping Ukraine. But if you think "The NATO countries are very afraid of the Russians" well what can i say.... Again...i do recommend you to read the book that i mentioned and maybe you will understand better why Europe was the stage of World Wars. Probably with a little more Knowledge you find different perspective of things.




50
Off Topic / Re: This should settle some different opinions
« on: July 15, 2023, 10:24 »
Ukraine is not a beggar who should say thanks to the US and the EU, but a full partner, whom the US and the EU should listen to and do what Ukraine says.

I entirely agree with Big Toe on this. US and EU are helping Ukraine to fight this injustice war. Unfortunately Ukraine is not in NATO or in EU therefore not yet a full partner although I agree that this war brought our peoples even closer together.

As you may know, in democracies there needs to be consensus. There is no consensus among Member States when Ukraine will join NATO or the EU. The only consensus that exists is that the entry of Ukraine will only be discussed after the end of the war and in the meantime help Ukraine to fight and win this unjust war with Russia.

There is a huge and complicated path to achieve consensus with member states either in EU or NATO. In my humble opinion I think it will take less time for Ukraine to join the EU (maybe 8-12 years) than NATO (maybe decades). For example Finland had decades of simulations and training with NATO before join this year. On the other hand Turkey, which is a NATO member, have been in accession negotiations to EU since 2005 (almost 20 years).

Either way do not assume just because NATO and EU are committed in helping Ukraine it makes it a full partner. It's not.
To be one the answer will be fulfill all the requirements to apply for it. I am very positive that Ukraine could achieve this in a fair timeline.



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