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Author Topic: Number of title and image keywords in best selling images  (Read 14265 times)

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« Reply #25 on: September 21, 2014, 14:55 »
0
Quote
Firstly: if you submit a big bunch of similar images, most of them (if not all) get rejected for that very reason (unless you sell your photos on some unknown website in which case they might go for your images anyway). Secondly, if all images are keyworded the same you will compete with yourself in the search results and the missing variation will extremely limit the number of keyword combinations your images can be found under. But I think you just want to tease me to reveal more of what I learned or know.

1. similars DO get accepted at all agencies
2. I'd love it if a search only generated a bunch of MY images for the buyer to choose from!  why put all your efforts into one perfect image when a variety of images will create more buyers?

1. Not my experience, but maybe I just had bad luck. More than 5 similar images and all others got rejected in my case. Fotolia is even worse. Good for you if you had different outcomes.
2. But the probability is so much lower for that to happen at the first place. What makes you think it's still better? In my eyes it's like hoping for a rare event happening in a lottery. Just putting all your bets on one single thing and hoping that lottery strikes. For 25 cents. And nothing for a long time again.


nicksimages

  • contact : nicksimages.com
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2014, 14:56 »
+9
Such research is impossible.
You must have a lot of exact same images accepted with differen keywords. Shutterstock would never allow that.

Even if you would have, the results are only for now and in your specific area within specific competition. The slightest tweak to the search algorithm and results are different.

Looks to me more like you want to sell junk for profit

cuppacoffee

« Reply #27 on: September 21, 2014, 15:34 »
0
Lots of similars get through these days at DT. Take a look at the latest photos. http://www.dreamstime.com/new-stock-photos-images

« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2014, 15:46 »
+7
I can't believe that anyone would even bother offering something so obviously time wasting and irrelevant - but for what it's worth for anyone new happening upon this discussion:

Your first priority should be your images - usefulness and technical quality.
Your second priority should be assembling a complete and relevant list of keywords. Come up with a useful title.

Nonsense claims about magic numbers of keywords or title words are just that.

« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2014, 00:00 »
-1
fwiw - here are the most popular keywords on symbiostock sites -- anyone who limits their keywording to these overused tags is not going to get noticed

   Keyword       Sites    Used    Views
   green      164   31553   28566
   white      163   69223   35832
   background      162   54819   34210
   blue      158   40558   26689
   red      157   31438   20574
   nature      156   42794   20570
   water      150   23361   16997
   summer      148   26879   14306
   yellow      148   18489   11015
   food      144   21741   26283
   black      143   22104   16573
   color      142   26635   10523
   isolated      139    47672   28286
   sky      138   28780   14657
   tree      137   14067   10370
   orange      137   12261   7756
   holiday      136   16852   11577
   travel      135   26151   10419
               
            
               similar lists for most used keywords, most viewed keywords, etc at http://cascoly.com/symbio/symbiostock-keywords.asp
 

Uncle Pete

« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2014, 17:46 »
0
Also SS has the most popular keywords searched, which includes some that I can't write here, (which don't appear on their site and no matching images either) so the obvious conclusion to that is, searched and sold are not the same thing. One is not necessarily linked to the other, like some would assume on the surface.

I am guessing that moist popular you mean by artists, not by buyers? Interesting how many are colors, which I'd still include but not count on for much value.

fwiw - here are the most popular keywords on symbiostock sites -- anyone who limits their keywording to these overused tags is not going to get noticed

« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2014, 18:13 »
0
so the # of k words doesn't matter? I was told by fellow contributors veterans it does. I've always felt relevance was more important .
« Last Edit: September 22, 2014, 18:22 by gimages »

« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2014, 01:19 »
0
Also SS has the most popular keywords searched, which includes some that I can't write here, (which don't appear on their site and no matching images either) so the obvious conclusion to that is, searched and sold are not the same thing. One is not necessarily linked to the other, like some would assume on the surface.

I am guessing that moist popular you mean by artists, not by buyers? Interesting how many are colors, which I'd still include but not count on for much value.

fwiw - here are the most popular keywords on symbiostock sites -- anyone who limits their keywording to these overused tags is not going to get noticed

right -- the column for 'used' shows how many images in the symbiostock database use a given keyword.  views is the number of times that keyword has been searched for across all symbiostock sites including the global search sites

I played with other stats and reports such as a comparision for s specific site to see if they are getting more or fewer views than would be expected for a given site, but it takes a lot of server time so I haven't opened it up for general use.  mostly it's handy to find keywords you might not have thought of  -whether that results in sales, we cant track
« Last Edit: September 24, 2014, 01:22 by cascoly »

Uncle Pete

« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2014, 10:48 »
+2
Yes the # of keywords Might matter. It does on DT for example and Alamy, but I never tested SS. If (big if), SS uses relevancy like DT and Alamy, the number keywords, divided by the total matching keywords, would give you a relevancy level.

So two similar images, same size, everything else except number of keywords (one controlled variable) 4 out of 40 is 10% and 4 our of 15 is 37%. The second image would rank higher in the search.

There could be many other things, file age, DLs, views with no DLs, time since last DL, views that produce sales... it's impossible to know what they are using. Also it wouldn't change anything, except in a few small ways. It's just a mental problem with little value.

There are 42 million images. Lady with headset 20,000 - Business Handshake 45,000 - sliced tomato isolated 45,000 (really just for fun, but how many are needed?) does anyone think their new image in the most popular download searches has any chance at all of making a return on the investment? This is a universal dilemma in Microstock and SS at this point.

But if I understand the OP he's saying the number of words in the title, and the special number he came up with, not meaning how many relavant keywords but some magic number?

Yes the number of words, might matter, but it's not like seven or 15 is the right secret number.  :o It's different all the time. Title? Interesting question. How much does title effect anything on SS?

If he meant something else, it would be good for Einstein to explain. I find the $5 to read his study a little strange. People here share information, it's not, I'll sell you questionable secrets or theories, pay me and then read them.


so the # of k words doesn't matter? I was told by fellow contributors veterans it does. I've always felt relevance was more important .

« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2014, 11:10 »
+2
Thanks for the  info .It's confusing sometime others telling u no u need more and some saying u have plenty as long as they are relevant . I just try and go with my own gut instinct.
Sometime I put maybe 7 other times I will put 30 or so.

Uncle Pete

« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2014, 11:18 »
0
You are correct. As many as you need to accurately define the image and what's in it. Some will have less words, some will have more.

I think there's some old "wisdom" (superstitions die hard too) from Micro that more words is always better and I think that the agencies have compensated for that. Maybe in 2005 packing the words, would get you more views and more DLs. Now it just makes for angry customers, because their searches are full of inappropriate results.

That's mostly Opinion and Conjecture except the first sentence.

Good accurate keywords will get best results. Don't leave out words because of counting numbers and don't add questionable or unrelated words, just because you want more words.



Thanks for the  info .It's confusing sometime others telling u no u need more and some saying u have plenty as long as they are relevant . I just try and go with my own gut instinct.
Sometime I put maybe 7 other times I will put 30 or so.

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2014, 11:20 »
+1
even with the very best possible keyword strategy, how much are the sales going to increase ? 10% ? 20% ?

how long is going to cost to rekeyword your entire archive ? what if they change the algo tomorrow ?

moral of the story, the only thing that makes sense is shooting more and more since it's a numbers game anyway.

i remember some posts by alamy contributors with archives larger than 100K images, the algos have been changed a few times, the agency has now millions of new images, they have rekeyworded part of their archive, end of the story no big deal in terms of views and sales while those seeing major ups and downs are the ones with small portfolios.

same with google : trillions of web pages indexed but the top tier sites are always in the top-30 at least, no matter the algo hacks every 6-12 months.

conclusion : it's 2014 guys, search algorithms have reached a good standard nowadays, there's no way to cheat and expect it to last long.

« Reply #37 on: September 25, 2014, 20:54 »
+2
The secret is not in the number of keywords, but in a creative image with keywords that represents them. Simple as that. I speak this by pure observation of my pictures and images of others. If you make something new and interesting, real quick this will be at the top of the rankings, or at least on the first page of the search.

« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2014, 21:09 »
+1
I am trying to keep my keywords to between 10 and 25. Will try to assess if fewer keywords works. And relevant of course.

Hobostocker

    This user is banned.
« Reply #39 on: September 26, 2014, 21:18 »
+3
The secret is not in the number of keywords, but in a creative image with keywords that represents them. Simple as that. I speak this by pure observation of my pictures and images of others. If you make something new and interesting, real quick this will be at the top of the rankings, or at least on the first page of the search.

yes.

if we look at the best sellers they all have a common pattern : they instantly look good at first glance, even at thumbnail size, no matter if they were buried among 100s of similar thumbs, they just stand up among the crowd.


dpimborough

« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2014, 01:52 »
+1
Here's something different why not:

1. Take good photos
2. Don't flood the market with junk
3. Don't submit thousands of the same shot taken at different angles
4. Keep your keywords relevant accurate and honest no spamming

5. Be original don't follow the herd shoot something different.


« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2014, 01:55 »
0

By now I only have around 300 images online which is by far not enough, since I spent more time writing the software than making photos and submitting. I have at least one sale a day (average 2, sometimes up to 5).



I have only around 200 vector on Shutterstock, without any peculiar keyword strategy, I use between 40 and 50 keyword for each image always. I have several sale a month (in 2014: min 617, max 766) and "more expensive sales" are about 10%. How much you think I can increase this performance according information that you sell?


Uncle Pete

« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2014, 21:29 »
0
Shhhh! I thought you promised not to tell the secrets of success.  ;)

Now everyone will know!


Here's something different why not:

1. Take good photos
2. Don't flood the market with junk
3. Don't submit thousands of the same shot taken at different angles
4. Keep your keywords relevant accurate and honest no spamming

5. Be original don't follow the herd shoot something different.

« Reply #43 on: October 01, 2014, 08:16 »
0
OK guys I was quite busy, so I couldn't visit here earlier. As I mentioned before, I can't guarantee anything. I just noticed that while on some websites the best selling images have as little as 3.x keywords in their title, they are significantly longer somewhere else. If this pattern occurs in an overwhelming amount of best selling images I thought some people here might want to know.

Other thing no one realized, I was selling the information incredibly cheap (try to get that information yourself and you'll see how much pain it's to get reliable numbers). You didn't grab it, you didn't get it.

By now I also started researching single keywords, and I debunked some keyword myths. The word "blue" for example mentioned by cascoly isn't such a bad keyword. It's true that you have a huge competition if you just enter "blue" into the search box (how many people will look just for "blue"?), but it is highly searched in combination with other keywords. It might not directly lead to sales but it will get you views (which you need to make any sales at all).

Just to warn keyword spammers: if blue is not the dominant color of your image, it probably won't get you views but instead it will downrank you for keyword spamming.

But if you have lot's of blue, you might want to specify it closer.
Here are some hand picked sale probabilities per view (under few assumptions such as landing close to the top in search results + I won't reveal for which website):

powder blue: 7%
deep blue: 9%
cold blue: 9%
isolated on blue: 15%
electric blue: 26%


« Reply #44 on: October 01, 2014, 11:46 »
+1
....

I just noticed that while on some websites the best selling images have as little as 3.x keywords in their title, they are significantly longer somewhere else

....

Just to warn keyword spammers: if blue is not the dominant color of your image, it probably won't get you views but instead it will downrank you for keyword spamming.

But if you have lot's of blue, you might want to specify it closer.
Here are some hand picked sale probabilities per view (under few assumptions such as landing close to the top in search results + I won't reveal for which website):

powder blue: 7%
deep blue: 9%
cold blue: 9%
isolated on blue: 15%
electric blue: 26%
""

more statistical RUBBISH

those numbers are meaningless  - 7% of what? compared to what?   total sales of all images?  chance of 1 sale a month?  and EVEN if you happen to actually find a hit here, you've missed the most basic of all statistical rules - CORRELATION IS NOT CAUSATION

you've still presented nothing to show you're even minimally qualified to talk about this subject - from either a statistical or business side


as far as spamming - just how is adding blue going to get caught?  if any site has such a capability they're dong a terrible job using it


« Reply #45 on: October 01, 2014, 12:00 »
0
I can't believe that anyone would even bother offering something so obviously time wasting and irrelevant - but for what it's worth for anyone new happening upon this discussion:

Your first priority should be your images - usefulness and technical quality.
Your second priority should be assembling a complete and relevant list of keywords. Come up with a useful title.

Nonsense claims about magic numbers of keywords or title words are just that.

one again , well spoken .
but every once in a while, someone wants to sell horseshit secrets of my success
and the web is full of horseshit secrets of my success
which in the old days we used to call them snake-oil.

oh btw, i have a fail-safe method to making lots of $$$$$$$
it's available to anyone for a P.O. of a quid

shhhh, don't tell anyone, after u receive my method, ok? 8)

« Reply #46 on: November 01, 2014, 01:43 »
0
I believe that the right keywords. And the more the better the results.


 

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