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Author Topic: Is Symbiostock a con?  (Read 14923 times)

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« on: July 15, 2013, 08:11 »
-6
I'm glad I got your attention... I have questions.

1. Where can I find the Symbiostock Privacy Policy? For both the artists that use it to set up their websites and their buyers.

2. Where can read about the security features of Symbiostock? How are images protected from unauthorised access? How is the buyer protected?

3. Which part of Symbiostock is open source and which isn't? Can the project be forked by a third party? Is there a guarantee that the project will remain open source?

All advice appreciated, thank you in advance.

Dolores

PS: About the contentious subject line of my post.. If this project has legs, its creators and supporters won't fear such questions. :-)


EmberMike

« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2013, 08:22 »
+1
I'm way too new to Symbiostock to be able to answer all of these questions, but what I can tell you from my brief experience with it and tinkering around with some of the code:

Images are protected, but I'm not sure how. All files available for purchase on a Symbiostock site are stored in a directory on the website but the images themselves can't be linked to or accessed directly.

Payments are made via PayPal, so in terms of buyer protection, a buyer is afforded the same security and protection as any other PayPal transaction would provide.

I believe that all of Symbiostock is open source. It's a WordPress theme, so all of the code that powers it is accessible to anyone who downloads the Symbiostock theme. No one has the lock and keys to the code, it's already all out there, so I don't see how it could ever not be open source in the future.

« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2013, 08:29 »
+3
First question - no, Symbiostock is not a con it is an opportunity for you to do something for yourself

Privacy policy - you create your own although there is a wordpress plug in to create one

« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2013, 08:41 »
+2

3. Which part of Symbiostock is open source and which isn't? Can the project be forked by a third party? Is there a guarantee that the project will remain open source?


The "heart" of Symbiostock is an idea.  The Idea of networking sites with the same purpose ( in this case selling stock images).  The power is in the network and search ability across many individual sites.  I believe that it will be forked by many third parties... some will close their network, some may open it more.  This may spawn Symbiomusic, or Symbiogames, or Symbio????


« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2013, 08:56 »
+2
KHAAAAAAN!

« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2013, 17:49 »
+13
....
Dolores

PS: About the contentious subject line of my post.. If this project has legs, its creators and supporters won't fear such questions. :-)

it's a pretty sad way to introduce yourself if you're real and not just trolling (esp'ly suspicious since you have ZERO previous posts and no profile
)
people here are more than willing to help out, but simple courtesy goes a long way

« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2013, 18:00 »
+2
Since Symbiostock is a Wordpress theme I should think that much of the security protecting your images has to do with how much security you put into your web hosting and theme in terms of secure passwords and protecting your passwords.  If you're logging on in a public cafe where your passwords might get highjacked and you give yourself a common user name like Admin, or using your site name (those two show up regularly on Wordfence hack attempts) then your site will not be nearly as secure as if you follow commonly advised internet security protocol with secure passwords and similar measures.

« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2013, 18:27 »
+6
You have good questions, it looks like a lot of them have been answered for you.  The creator of Symbiostock has never expressed interest in making the theme closed source at any point so theoretically it will stay open forever, and anyone could fork it to change/build on it.  If they do, hopefully the will be aware that much of the value is in the networked aspect of the search results and changing too much may cause it not to be usable in that capacity.

As for your title, I'm sure there's no fear since the whole project has been just about as open as can be, but speaking strictly for myself ...it's not the nicest thing to read after just spending another several hours today writing documentation and tutorials.  I guess it's fine, I don't expect everyone to fully embrace the project before they know anything about it. 

I'll try to include answers to these questions in the knowledge base, for people who are curious in the future.  Funny I was just writing up an article on Privacy Policy issues before I read this.  Guess we better hurry up with the documentation! :D

« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2013, 02:56 »
-8
Thanks for your responses everyone, but I don't believe my questions have been answered. The minimum we need to consider using a new portfolio platform is a Privacy Policy by the software creators and a clear outline of how security is handled. A guarantee regarding the open-source/commercial split of services would also be helpful. We'll keep up to date with progress and return once these basics are covered.

Sorry my subject title upset some. It was just a little test. ;)

gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2013, 03:03 »
+9
I've seen this before from another member:

an apology that comes across as an insult, followed by ;)


« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2013, 07:06 »
+8
This was an incredibly insulting and inflammatory title for a post. Seriously. Who does something like this?

Leo has given us an incredible tool, free of charge. What has Dolores given us?

« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2013, 07:12 »
+3
We do not have legs, same as Leo doesn't have legs
What Symbiostock? There is no Symbiostock
;)
trolls are trolls






travelwitness

« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2013, 07:34 »
+2
I don't know, Dolores has posted 3 legitimate questions.

1 Privacy Policy - What info goes out to the network what stays in the theme, how does this affect third parties / developers
2 Security - What are the security features of both WordPress and Paypal
3 OpenSource - An introduction to OpenSource projects, what part of the code is free to develop and what are the conditions? Maybe something similar to this...http://wordpress.org/about/gpl/

All three need clarification and posting on Symbiostock.com to make the project crystal clear and transparent.

Agreed the title of the post was a little melodramatic :-)

« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2013, 07:37 »
-6
This was an incredibly insulting and inflammatory title for a post. Seriously. Who does something like this?

For your information, the question "Is this a con?" is always first in my mind when I come across a website offering something "for free" but without the legal basics covered. Even though I stated it in jest to attract attention, it's a valid question. The more sensitive the responses are to this, the longer we go without real answers, well... I'll draw my conclusions.

Leo has given us an incredible tool, free of charge. What has Dolores given us?

You can believe in free lunch if you like, your choice. I believe in business models, and Leo does seem to have a good thing going here. If he wants to attract serious users he will cover the legal angles as is the norm in all business, open-source or not.

EmberMike

« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2013, 07:51 »
+8
I don't know, Dolores has posted 3 legitimate questions.

1 Privacy Policy - What info goes out to the network what stays in the theme, how does this affect third parties / developers
2 Security - What are the security features of both WordPress and Paypal
3 OpenSource - An introduction to OpenSource projects, what part of the code is free to develop and what are the conditions? Maybe something similar to this...http://wordpress.org/about/gpl/

All three need clarification and posting on Symbiostock.com to make the project crystal clear and transparent.

Agreed the title of the post was a little melodramatic :-)


Regarding the line I bolded above, Leo is under no obligation to post any of this info. Symbiostock is a WordPress theme. A free one at that. If you take a look at the websites of other WordPress theme developers, including big ones like Obox, Themify, Woo, etc., they don't include any of this information either. In fact, some of theme even say on their websites that it isn't their responsibility to guarantee anything about their products, and it is up to the user to determine compatibility, security, etc.

It is absolutely not Leo's responsibility to provide info on the security of WordPress itself, nor PayPal. Those aren't his products, and anyone can very easily go to those companies to find out whatever they need to know about privacy and security.

Symbiostock is released under a GPL, a copy of which is included with the theme.


« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2013, 08:03 »
+7
You can believe in free lunch if you like, your choice. I believe in business models...

What I believe in is not walking into someone's home and immediately insulting their ethics just to prove whatever point it is that you have. You invalidate all of your points by choosing to be accusatory and aggravating when there is need for neither. Typical of people who hide behind the anonymity of internet message forum user names.

« Reply #16 on: July 16, 2013, 08:42 »
-3
You can believe in free lunch if you like, your choice. I believe in business models...

What I believe in is not walking into someone's home and immediately insulting their ethics just to prove whatever point it is that you have. You invalidate all of your points by choosing to be accusatory and aggravating when there is need for neither. Typical of people who hide behind the anonymity of internet message forum user names.

What point do you think I'm trying to prove? Who am I accusing and aggravating? I'm asking questions and you don't seem to be either inclined or entitled to provide the answers, you're just dragging this thread down a tangent. If you can't answer, would you kindly refrain??

I see EmberMike's post above, but I'm not so well versed in the ways of Wordpress theme vendors. Even so, where code is involved from a party other than Wordpress, in a commercial environment, I believe that party is obliged to state their terms. Specifically:

1. What data, if any, does Symbiostock collect on its users, how, and for what purpose?
2. Under what conditions, if any, does the Symbiostock code contact servers other than the one setup by the user (ie. the server hosting the package)?
3. Who do I sue if my Symbiostock-based site is hacked and high-value images stolen?

Seriously, I think I'm talking basics here.

EmberMike

« Reply #17 on: July 16, 2013, 08:50 »
+5
3. Who do I sue if my Symbiostock-based site is hacked and high-value images stolen?

You know, I was going to actually try to provide helpful answers to the first two questions, but then I saw this one and decided not to. You're way out of line here, dolores. And also way out of touch with reality. I don't think any WordPress software on the planet makes any guarantees about security to the extent you're suggesting or hoping for.

« Last Edit: July 16, 2013, 08:53 by EmberMike »

« Reply #18 on: July 16, 2013, 09:14 »
+2
3. Who do I sue if my Symbiostock-based site is hacked and high-value images stolen?

I don't think any WordPress software on the planet makes any guarantees about security to the extent you're suggesting or hoping for.

Neither do any of the stock agencies.  And even if they do, they wouldn't (and couldn't) do anything if there was a security breach anyway.

« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2013, 09:21 »
+2
Seriously, I think I'm talking basics here.

You're talking rudeness here, which is why you're getting the reaction you are.

« Reply #20 on: July 16, 2013, 09:36 »
+4
Dolores. I think perhaps if you are not inclined to take initiative yourself and are simply looking for someone to blame if things go wrong, then symbiostock is not for you. It seems ironic to me that you are so distrustful and yet contribute to the micros in a scenario where trust is all you have. I would rather steer my own ship make my own prices and control my own future. To me this seems like a safer road to the future than waiting in vain with the hope that my sales for the last two months might finally get reported or that my royalty percentage won't get decreased again. I think you should stay away from hosting your own site. This is obviously not for you.

« Reply #21 on: July 16, 2013, 11:18 »
+2
Who do I sue if my Symbiostock-based site is hacked and high-value images stolen?

Probably yourself. Nothing is really secure on the web. I don't think anybody will give you any guarantees. Are those actually offered anywhere?

« Reply #22 on: July 16, 2013, 12:31 »
+1
Let me try and translate "Who do I sue..." into drier language you may be familiar with. Bona fide sites and software vendors will have Terms and Conditions that will state the legal basis of what is being offered, including the agreed jurisdiction and what is or is not warranted. There will be a Privacy Policy as part of the terms, that will make it clear how data is or isn't shared, and that's important for security. The less shared, the more secure. There will be other things too, according to need. In this case, as we're dealing with a system within a system, further explanations would help, as stated. No, my dearies, this is not rudeness! This IS the basics.

I hope you all enjoy your work with Symbiostock. As has been suggested, it isn't for me. Thanks for that, at least that's some result, if not the one I hoped for.

« Reply #23 on: July 16, 2013, 12:56 »
+3
Your "legal protection" at stock agencies is false sense of security.  I've had images stolen and/or misused from iStock.  When I discover and report it to iS Compliance all I get is a generic response.  I have yet to receive any follow up regarding issues.  Often checking the site months later shows the images are sill there and in use.  This is not uncommon.

As for the theme, it's on Wordpress so it's up to the individual to secure their site, define the legal usage and protect themselves.  If someone likes Symbiostock and feel it is a benefit to use it, they can enjoy the fact that a developer has provided them with his hard work free of charge.

« Reply #24 on: July 16, 2013, 13:03 »
0
While i think some of your questions are legit, your headline is a little offensive. But then again i was accused of being rude when i used the word secret and it caused a big uproar.


I have asked some of the same questions you are asking because i believe i have the right to know how the network interacts with my images and data. I have gotten some satisfactory answers so far, but since i am not a php programmer, nor have i scrubbed through every single page and piece of code, i believe that what i have been told is correct. There is a certain amount of trust required. But i also know that contributors images are being basically stolen from them by the agencies, too. So this venture is no different than anything on the web. I trust, but verify.


In todays world, anything done on the internet has the potential of being misused by someone. If i dont understand something, i ask someone who has more saavy than me. Thats the best i can do.

EmberMike

« Reply #25 on: July 16, 2013, 13:09 »
0
...No, my dearies, this is not rudeness! This IS the basics...

As already stated, no, it's not "the basics". WordPress theme developers don't work like this. Check out any of the big ones. See for yourself.


« Reply #26 on: July 16, 2013, 15:15 »
+3
This was an incredibly insulting and inflammatory title for a post. Seriously. Who does something like this?

For your information, the question "Is this a con?" is always first in my mind when I come across a website offering something "for free" but without the legal basics covered. Even though I stated it in jest to attract attention, it's a valid question. The more sensitive the responses are to this, the longer we go without real answers, well... I'll draw my conclusions.

Leo has given us an incredible tool, free of charge. What has Dolores given us?

You can believe in free lunch if you like, your choice. I believe in business models, and Leo does seem to have a good thing going here. If he wants to attract serious users he will cover the legal angles as is the norm in all business, open-source or not.

this exposes why you just don't get it -- you start out with the negative idea that a site has to prove it's not trying to con you.  symbio works on the principle that most people are ethical and we're trying to work together. add in the idea that we realize that other artists are not our enemies and that by highlighting each other's work we break out of the zerosum game the agencies lock us into.

so, like others who have posted, you're arguing for what you would do if you created  sym, rather than understanding what it is designed to do.   

steve

« Reply #27 on: July 16, 2013, 16:23 »
+2
I'm glad I got your attention... I have questions.

1. Where can I find the Symbiostock Privacy Policy? For both the artists that use it to set up their websites and their buyers.

2. Where can read about the security features of Symbiostock? How are images protected from unauthorised access? How is the buyer protected?

3. Which part of Symbiostock is open source and which isn't? Can the project be forked by a third party? Is there a guarantee that the project will remain open source?

All advice appreciated, thank you in advance.

Dolores

PS: About the contentious subject line of my post.. If this project has legs, its creators and supporters won't fear such questions. :-)

Are you a con? You sure read like  a poor attempt at one.

« Reply #28 on: July 16, 2013, 16:59 »
+1

Are you a con? You sure read like  a poor attempt at one.

+1

And a very rude con to boot.

Les

« Reply #29 on: July 21, 2013, 21:19 »
-2

Are you a con? You sure read like  a poor attempt at one.

+1

And a very rude con to boot.
+1     I would add stupid

« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2013, 01:15 »
-5
The questions Dolores asks are perfectly legitimate.
Your reaction is not.

Love of the baby is not enough, you have to think about security and legal issues.
Just the last couple of days there have been security breaks in symbiostock so it has proven relevant at this early point.

Open source and trust, do not hold water if first big money begin to flow, and is that not what you hope for?
Im astonished that you are not listening carefully but react with ignorance instead of discussing and acting on these things.

Same when I critisized the other day. You cannot bear to hear it and react with killing the messenger.

quailrunphoto

« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2013, 01:41 »
0
Just the last couple of days there have been security breaks in symbiostock so it has proven relevant at this early point.

Really? more details please.


« Reply #33 on: July 22, 2013, 02:11 »
+1
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/spam-registrations/msg331621/?topicseen#new

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-technical-support/just-had-a-sale-buyer-can%27t-download-file-help!/msg331889/?topicseen#new


These are regular small hurdles in a development like this. SYS has smaller and lot less of those then most projects I'v seen. What an uneducated moronic thread.

« Reply #34 on: July 22, 2013, 02:20 »
0
Are they also minor flaws for the customer who couldnt get the file he paid for?

gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #35 on: July 22, 2013, 02:37 »
+1


Same when I critisized the other day. You cannot bear to hear it and react with killing the messenger.
to be honest, initially I thought Dolores was you, but the English seems native.

« Reply #36 on: July 22, 2013, 02:48 »
-1
Dolores is not me.

gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #37 on: July 22, 2013, 03:32 »
0
cos you are brave enough just to put your unedited opinions out there...  fair enough. in the real world i love real people like you.

« Reply #38 on: July 22, 2013, 04:43 »
+2
cos you are brave enough just to put your unedited opinions out there...  fair enough. in the real world i love real people like you.

I also like you Gillian, I like aussies, Im sorry I only know you on the net.

And there is enough of camouflage and hidden agendas on the net.

It proves in the long run, that you are best off by being yourself. Some people like it, some dont. That compares to the RL. Your opinions might have weight, or not, and they can be elaborated because you get feedback.
In the symbio discussion, my views have been elaborated a bit, and maybe I have even sparkled some discussions.

However, I do get minuses for a simple statement: that im not Dolores. That is strange. Talk about killing the messenger with a vengance!

gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #39 on: July 22, 2013, 04:52 »
0
well there's a fine balance between speaking your mind, being truthful, being hurtful, being rude, being funny, being honest..........  I also find it very useful to be able to write what I want to say, and then delete it all. written conversations last longer.

« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2013, 04:54 »
-2
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/spam-registrations/msg331621/?topicseen#new

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-technical-support/just-had-a-sale-buyer-can%27t-download-file-help!/msg331889/?topicseen#new


These are regular small hurdles in a development like this. SYS has smaller and lot less of those then most projects I'v seen. What an uneducated moronic thread.


herein lies the real danger.
First its not a minor thing for the customer. Imagine if it was you.

And next, the real point.
A chain is not stronger than the weakest link.
By having such a calamity, like a shop that has not tested the sales funktions, now undermines ALL OF YOUR SHOPS since you are interconnected.
The damage is manyfold and multiplied.
This customer remembers both the shop, and the symbio network name, and has lost trust in both.'

So this little small error, from one of the members has cost you all.

As well as you can benifit from eachother the opposite can also happen.
And this was a minor thing, that was soone corrected.
But what if something major happens, such as a real nigerian scam among you.
I mentioned it before. It was not taken seroulsly.
I might no comprehend the symbio idea fully, and certainly not the details.
But do you comprehend what synergy in networks can do?

Someone mentioned exponentially growing curves.


gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #41 on: July 22, 2013, 04:59 »
+1

herein lies the real danger.

or the power.

Imagine connecting with people BETTER than you.  I have a couple of girlfriends who are graphic designers, jewellery makers and gourmet foodie types. Imagine connecting in a group them to maximise your different skills.

that's where I see the positives and the power of this system.

« Reply #42 on: July 22, 2013, 05:01 »
0
well there's a fine balance between speaking your mind, being truthful, being hurtful, being rude, being funny, being honest..........  I also find it very useful to be able to write what I want to say, and then delete it all. written conversations last longer.

true, and the net never forgets.
I sometimes tear my hair out, when I find old posts I have made. How stupid I was.
But I still do it. I am who I am, and sometimes it costs.

« Reply #43 on: July 22, 2013, 05:06 »
+1
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/spam-registrations/msg331621/?topicseen#new

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-technical-support/just-had-a-sale-buyer-can%27t-download-file-help!/msg331889/?topicseen#new


These are regular small hurdles in a development like this. SYS has smaller and lot less of those then most projects I'v seen. What an uneducated moronic thread.


herein lies the real danger.
First its not a minor thing for the customer. Imagine if it was you.

And next, the real point.
A chain is not stronger than the weakest link.
By having such a calamity, like a shop that has not tested the sales funktions, now undermines ALL OF YOUR SHOPS since you are interconnected.
The damage is manyfold and multiplied.
This customer remembers both the shop, and the symbio network name, and has lost trust in both.'

So this little small error, from one of the members has cost you all.

As well as you can benifit from eachother the opposite can also happen.
And this was a minor thing, that was soone corrected.
But what if something major happens, such as a real nigerian scam among you.
I mentioned it before. It was not taken seroulsly.
I might no comprehend the symbio idea fully, and certainly not the details.
But do you comprehend what synergy in networks can do?

Someone mentioned exponentially growing curves.


So what's your point, have you ever seen a system free of scam? This is a kindergarten debate. What you see is the regular workings of new a market in the making. This system is an infant, and already works almost like an adult, which is brilliant. One of the best projects I'v seen in years, and some ppl try to make this look like horror story... sour grapes or what? just buzz off ppl.

« Reply #44 on: July 22, 2013, 05:07 »
-2

herein lies the real danger.

or the power.

Imagine connecting with people BETTER than you.  I have a couple of girlfriends who are graphic designers, jewellery makers and gourmet foodie types. Imagine connecting in a group them to maximise your different skills.

that's where I see the positives and the power of this system.
Sure, thats what we all hope for.
We do not hope for someone to make a mistake that draws us all down.
You should take all reasonable precautions to avoid that.
and that can be built into the system and should, whenever it was possible and recognized.

« Reply #45 on: July 22, 2013, 05:10 »
+2
Out of 70+ sales only one had issue. That is less than 2%. Is it not good enough?
Best part is that we are able to get back to our customers quickly and resolve the issue. 

gillian vann

  • *Gillian*
« Reply #46 on: July 22, 2013, 05:19 »
+1
yup, don't' live your life in fear of that 3% of ppl. live your life to fulfill those who love and appreciate what you do.

i'm not sure there's much financial difference between the 2 attitudes, but there's no cancer-related illnesses in the latter. That's really my goal in life: to be healthy, happy and proud of what I do. Let the lawyers get cancer, let the doctors profit. It's the new "circle of life". I want to get as far from that as possible.

« Reply #47 on: July 22, 2013, 05:19 »
+1
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/spam-registrations/msg331621/?topicseen#new

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-technical-support/just-had-a-sale-buyer-can%27t-download-file-help!/msg331889/?topicseen#new


These are regular small hurdles in a development like this. SYS has smaller and lot less of those then most projects I'v seen. What an uneducated moronic thread.


herein lies the real danger.
First its not a minor thing for the customer. Imagine if it was you.

And next, the real point.
A chain is not stronger than the weakest link.
By having such a calamity, like a shop that has not tested the sales funktions, now undermines ALL OF YOUR SHOPS since you are interconnected.
The damage is manyfold and multiplied.
This customer remembers both the shop, and the symbio network name, and has lost trust in both.'

So this little small error, from one of the members has cost you all.

As well as you can benifit from eachother the opposite can also happen.
And this was a minor thing, that was soone corrected.
But what if something major happens, such as a real nigerian scam among you.
I mentioned it before. It was not taken seroulsly.
I might no comprehend the symbio idea fully, and certainly not the details.
But do you comprehend what synergy in networks can do?

Someone mentioned exponentially growing curves.


So what's your point, have you ever seen a system free of scam? This is a kindergarten debate. What you see is the regular workings of new a market in the making. This system is an infant, and already works almost like an adult, which is brilliant. One of the best projects I'v seen in years, and some ppl try to make this look like horror story... sour grapes or what? just buzz off ppl.


I have 3 points.
1... It would not take much effort to make the system much better so it actually is, what you thought it should be.
2... You are extremely vulnerable. You are likely to be exploited by someone. Maybe at best your work has been in vain. Im not sure, but im worried.
3...Nothing is ever a sandbox for ever, people listen ad watch. Happy hours only lasts until someone sees it can be moneyterized. You should make sure it is you who earn the money on your work..

Ron

« Reply #48 on: July 22, 2013, 05:27 »
+3
Spam is not a breach of security, what a load of tosh. And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

Seriously, you havent even set up a site with Symbiostock, so how can you say all these things? If Symbiostock is not secure I challenge you to email part of the code to Leo that you think is a vulnerability.


« Reply #49 on: July 22, 2013, 05:29 »
-2
Out of 70+ sales only one had issue. That is less than 2%. Is it not good enough?
Best part is that we are able to get back to our customers quickly and resolve the issue.

No.
1-2 % is totally unacceptable in a digital world.
and worse in interdependant networks.
also, it should not have been published. the file should just have been sent, apologized for an bonused.

you are not able to get back to the customers, when first there are many.



« Reply #50 on: July 22, 2013, 05:34 »
-2
Spam is not a breach of security, what a load of tosh. And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

Seriously, you havent even set up a site with Symbiostock, so how can you say all these things? If Symbiostock is not secure I challenge you to email part of the code to Leo that you think is a vulnerability.

No I have not set up a symbiostock site.

Consider me as the guy with the general, not so informed view.
The guy who brings perspective, even experience but not knowledge of details.
You are also free to give me a lot of minuses. You dont have to listen. I can be all wrong and overreacting.

« Reply #51 on: July 22, 2013, 06:02 »
+1
If you did set up your own site and then queried things in detail - because you had found out for yourself exactly what happens I feel your criticism would have a lot more weight.  At the moment I feel your negative concerns are too abstract.   
 
Anyone who is code proficient can check it out and see exactly what has been done, most of us are not capable of doing this but if we were concerned we could pay someone else to do it for us as it would be difficult to hide something from anyone who knew what they were looking at/for

So do I think Symbiostock is a Con?   No!


EmberMike

« Reply #52 on: July 22, 2013, 06:06 »
+4
No.
1-2 % is totally unacceptable in a digital world.
and worse in interdependant networks.
also, it should not have been published. the file should just have been sent, apologized for an bonused.

you are not able to get back to the customers, when first there are many.

Actually despite the initial problem, getting back to the customer quickly did more than resolve the issue. Here's the email I got from him afterwards:

Quote
Thank you for all your support, this is the way to have a forever customer!

As for the security and stability of Symbiostock, in my case it is likely a plugin that is interfering with the transactions. So not really a Symbiostock issue at all.

Edit: Confirmed. It was a plugin that was causing this issue. Not a Symbiostock issue.

Nor is spam registration, which is an extremely common WordPress issue and there are numerous ways to deal with it. As already stated, the issues you present with Symbiostock are largely issues that exist throughout the WordPress community, and yet not many people would suggest that WordPress is unfit for use.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 06:25 by EmberMike »

« Reply #53 on: July 22, 2013, 06:27 »
+3
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/spam-registrations/msg331621/?topicseen#new

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-technical-support/just-had-a-sale-buyer-can%27t-download-file-help!/msg331889/?topicseen#new


These are regular small hurdles in a development like this. SYS has smaller and lot less of those then most projects I'v seen. What an uneducated moronic thread.


herein lies the real danger.
First its not a minor thing for the customer. Imagine if it was you.

And next, the real point.
A chain is not stronger than the weakest link.
By having such a calamity, like a shop that has not tested the sales funktions, now undermines ALL OF YOUR SHOPS since you are interconnected.
The damage is manyfold and multiplied.
This customer remembers both the shop, and the symbio network name, and has lost trust in both.'

So this little small error, from one of the members has cost you all.

As well as you can benifit from eachother the opposite can also happen.
And this was a minor thing, that was soone corrected.
But what if something major happens, such as a real nigerian scam among you.
I mentioned it before. It was not taken seroulsly.
I might no comprehend the symbio idea fully, and certainly not the details.
But do you comprehend what synergy in networks can do?

Someone mentioned exponentially growing curves.


So what's your point, have you ever seen a system free of scam? This is a kindergarten debate. What you see is the regular workings of new a market in the making. This system is an infant, and already works almost like an adult, which is brilliant. One of the best projects I'v seen in years, and some ppl try to make this look like horror story... sour grapes or what? just buzz off ppl.


I have 3 points.
1... It would not take much effort to make the system much better so it actually is, what you thought it should be.
2... You are extremely vulnerable. You are likely to be exploited by someone. Maybe at best your work has been in vain. Im not sure, but im worried.
3...Nothing is ever a sandbox for ever, people listen ad watch. Happy hours only lasts until someone sees it can be moneyterized. You should make sure it is you who earn the money on your work..


1... dribble you can always say. "it could be better, uh-oh, utopia!"
2... care to explain any of this nonsense, like how I'm 'extremely vulnerable'? could be exploited, could be this, clould be that, could be anything, the wonderful world of 'could be'-s
3... Who said it's still in the sandbox? It's a brand new thing constantly being improved.

you are spamming.

« Reply #54 on: July 22, 2013, 06:29 »
+1
you are spamming.

Well said, topol.

« Reply #55 on: July 22, 2013, 06:31 »
+1
No.
1-2 % is totally unacceptable in a digital world.
and worse in interdependant networks.
also, it should not have been published. the file should just have been sent, apologized for an bonused.

you are not able to get back to the customers, when first there are many.

Actually despite the initial problem, getting back to the customer quickly did more than resolve the issue. Here's the email I got from him afterwards:

Quote
Thank you for all your support, this is the way to have a forever customer!

As for the security and stability of Symbiostock, in my case it is likely a plugin that is interfering with the transactions. So not really a Symbiostock issue at all.

Edit: Confirmed. It was a plugin that was causing this issue. Not a Symbiostock issue.

Nor is spam registration, which is an extremely common WordPress issue and there are numerous ways to deal with it. As already stated, the issues you present with Symbiostock are largely issues that exist throughout the WordPress community, and yet not many people would suggest that WordPress is unfit for use.


One single sale hcikup and some minor spam issue up to now, this is actually a very good track record. Some people seem to have emotional issues with SYS... weird.

« Reply #56 on: July 22, 2013, 06:44 »
+1

Actually despite the initial problem, getting back to the customer quickly did more than resolve the issue. Here's the email I got from him afterwards:

Quote
Thank you for all your support, this is the way to have a forever customer!


Actually this goes with my experience of dealing with customers when the IT systems that we support go wrong. When a problem occurs, we do all the necessary non-IT steps like talking to the customer, explaining the problem and ensuring that we fix the wrong that was done. Many times we also do a followup a few days/weeks down the line to see if the customer has faced any other issues. This has ensured that the customer does not lose trust in us.

« Reply #57 on: July 22, 2013, 07:01 »
-8
you really dont want to listen.
 thats fine, its up to you.

I wont bother you anymore.
And yes I was rude and it was terrible what I said.
Goodbye and have a nice day.

« Reply #58 on: July 22, 2013, 07:02 »
+5


No I have not set up a symbiostock site.

Consider me as the guy with the general, not so informed view.
The guy who brings perspective, even experience but not knowledge of details.
You are also free to give me a lot of minuses. You dont have to listen. I can be all wrong and overreacting.

No I will consider you the guy who has an occasional good idea but is so insistant on seeing the bad parts of the project  that everyone just starts to ignore them. 

I have to ask....why Bother?  If you don't have a site, and will likely never have a site, Why spend all this time and effort when you admit you don't have the knowledge to back up your ideas and claims.

Ron

« Reply #59 on: July 22, 2013, 07:42 »
+2
Spam is not a breach of security, what a load of tosh. And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

Seriously, you havent even set up a site with Symbiostock, so how can you say all these things? If Symbiostock is not secure I challenge you to email part of the code to Leo that you think is a vulnerability.

No I have not set up a symbiostock site.

Consider me as the guy with the general, not so informed view.
The guy who brings perspective, even experience but not knowledge of details.
You are also free to give me a lot of minuses. You dont have to listen. I can be all wrong and overreacting.
I didnt give you a minus.

Jens, I challenge you to email part of the code to Leo that you think is a vulnerability.

Thats all.

« Reply #60 on: July 22, 2013, 09:00 »
0
And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

I think that is a valid concern. My website was hacked a few weeks ago, and they probably got in through Wordpress. I'm not sure if there is a way to guarantee protection from any malicious intent, but Wordpress may be an easier target for people that know how to do these things. So, I think it is definitely something to think about.

Ron

« Reply #61 on: July 22, 2013, 09:04 »
+1
And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

I think that is a valid concern. My website was hacked a few weeks ago, and they probably got in through Wordpress. I'm not sure if there is a way to guarantee protection from any malicious intent, but Wordpress may be an easier target for people that know how to do these things. So, I think it is definitely something to think about.
Fair enough, but you cant pin that on Leo or Symbiostock. If some people have concerns with the security of WP, then they need to go to the WP boards or contact WP directly

« Reply #62 on: July 22, 2013, 09:21 »
0
And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

I think that is a valid concern. My website was hacked a few weeks ago, and they probably got in through Wordpress. I'm not sure if there is a way to guarantee protection from any malicious intent, but Wordpress may be an easier target for people that know how to do these things. So, I think it is definitely something to think about.
Fair enough, but you cant pin that on Leo or Symbiostock. If some people have concerns with the security of WP, then they need to go to the WP boards or contact WP directly

If Security of WP is an issue then maybe SYS should be built on a different platform?

I suspect ( though I am likely wrong) that WP itself is fairly secure, but as soon as you start adding multiple plug-ins any security disappears. 

« Reply #63 on: July 22, 2013, 09:24 »
0
And if you question the security of Symbiostock, you question the security of WordPress.

I think that is a valid concern. My website was hacked a few weeks ago, and they probably got in through Wordpress. I'm not sure if there is a way to guarantee protection from any malicious intent, but Wordpress may be an easier target for people that know how to do these things. So, I think it is definitely something to think about.
Fair enough, but you cant pin that on Leo or Symbiostock. If some people have concerns with the security of WP, then they need to go to the WP boards or contact WP directly


I think its a valid concern, no matter where the issue lies. I dont think anyone is pointing fingers (except Jens) but a better question would be...what can be done to tighten security on our sites? Has any code been already added into the SY theme to counteract the security issues?


Quote
If Security of WP is an issue then maybe SYS should be built on a different platform?


Another good question.




« Reply #64 on: July 22, 2013, 09:44 »
+2
Is WP notoriously unsafe?  (I never heard that, and I think it wouldn't be this popular if it was) If it isn't the debate is pointless: even pentagon gets hacked again and again, banks' systems get hacked almost every day. Safety only exists in your dreams, move on.
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:18 by topol »

Ron

« Reply #65 on: July 22, 2013, 09:45 »
0
All security ends when someone uses qwerty as their password, should be blame SYS or WP for that?

Ok, is there is security problem with Symbistock or WP or not? Is Symbiostock easily hacked?

Because if their is a security issue with Symbiostock then I have to apologise to Jens.


Ron

« Reply #66 on: July 22, 2013, 09:46 »
+1
Is WP notoriously unsafe?  (I never heard that, and I don't think it wouldn't be this popular if it was) If it isn't the debate is pointless: even pentagon gets hacked again and again, banks' systems get hacked almost every day. Safety only exists in your dreams, move on.
Exactly

« Reply #67 on: July 22, 2013, 09:54 »
0
 Blog post on how to secure Wordpress...and these tips apply to most on-line sites. 

http://moz.com/blog/the-definitive-guide-to-wordpress-security

A quick search makes me stand by my statement that WP is secure, but when adding plug-ins etc it becomes less so.

farbled

« Reply #68 on: July 22, 2013, 10:10 »
+5
Out of 70+ sales only one had issue. That is less than 2%. Is it not good enough?
Best part is that we are able to get back to our customers quickly and resolve the issue.

No.
1-2 % is totally unacceptable in a digital world.
and worse in interdependant networks.
also, it should not have been published. the file should just have been sent, apologized for an bonused.

you are not able to get back to the customers, when first there are many.

I like this, I thought you knew a lot about software development?

I'm sorry, I have been following these threads carefully but I had to chip in with my 2 cents. You seem very alarmist for what is a crowd-sourced concept that has been coming together wonderfully. I have never, ever found a piece of bug free software in it's first iteration from any company. That's what patches are for. :)

The failure of a customer to download shows just how easy it is to turn something negative into a positive for a small business. The seller was able to jump on it and solve the issue quickly. Your assumption that the customer will not be back is just that, an assumption. A large company might not have gotten back to the customer in days (if at all). We've all had experiences like that.

Spam is a non-issue. Show me something spam free and I'll show you a program that deletes valid emails as well.

You may be right that we're over-protective but let me say that we (if you read the thread carefully) have no problem with the questions, just the incredibly thoughtless and rude way they've been presented. A con? really? It's like asking why someone's child is so ugly?

Ahh, Monday morning starting with a rant. :) Time for coffee....
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 10:35 by farbled »

EmberMike

« Reply #69 on: July 22, 2013, 11:18 »
+4
...You may be right that we're over-protective...

I get the idea that maybe we're fiercely loyal to Symbiostock because we all invested something in it (time, money, etc). But really I have no illusions about what it is and how good it is. Believe me, last night when I couldn't get a test sale to go through, I was cursing Symbiostock under my breath. But as is often the case with WordPress, it was an external plugin that was to blame and not the theme.

I think we're all open to the idea that there may be security issues or flaws with Symbiostock. We're just not open to completely unwarranted criticism and accusations of insecurity that are completely without merit. Especially when it has been explained numerous times throughout this discussion why all of these suggested security and stability issues aren't really issues at all, and yet they keep coming back up.

That's the real frustration, when you explain to someone why something isn't a problem, and then they just choose to continue believing otherwise.

Ron

« Reply #70 on: July 22, 2013, 11:24 »
0
...You may be right that we're over-protective...

I get the idea that maybe we're fiercely loyal to Symbiostock because we all invested something in it (time, money, etc). But really I have no illusions about what it is and how good it is. Believe me, last night when I couldn't get a test sale to go through, I was cursing Symbiostock under my breath. But as is often the case with WordPress, it was an external plugin that was to blame and not the theme.

I think we're all open to the idea that there may be security issues or flaws with Symbiostock. We're just not open to completely unwarranted criticism and accusations of insecurity that are completely without merit. Especially when it has been explained numerous times throughout this discussion why all of these suggested security and stability issues aren't really issues at all, and yet they keep coming back up.

That's the real frustration, when you explain to someone why something isn't a problem, and then they just choose to continue believing otherwise.
Thats my idea as well. It was mentioned we dont listen, but I was convinced of the opposite as well.

« Reply #71 on: July 22, 2013, 11:27 »
0
You may be right that we're over-protective but let me say that we (if you read the thread carefully) have no problem with the questions, just the incredibly thoughtless and rude way they've been presented. A con? really? It's like asking why someone's child is so ugly?

+1

« Reply #72 on: July 22, 2013, 11:47 »
+2
http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-general/spam-registrations/msg331621/?topicseen#new

http://www.microstockgroup.com/symbiostock-technical-support/just-had-a-sale-buyer-can%27t-download-file-help!/msg331889/?topicseen#new


These are regular small hurdles in a development like this. SYS has smaller and lot less of those then most projects I'v seen. What an uneducated moronic thread.


herein lies the real danger.
First its not a minor thing for the customer. Imagine if it was you.

And next, the real point.
A chain is not stronger than the weakest link.
By having such a calamity, like a shop that has not tested the sales funktions, now undermines ALL OF YOUR SHOPS since you are interconnected.
The damage is manyfold and multiplied.
This customer remembers both the shop, and the symbio network name, and has lost trust in both.'

So this little small error, from one of the members has cost you all.

As well as you can benifit from eachother the opposite can also happen.
And this was a minor thing, that was soone corrected.
But what if something major happens, such as a real nigerian scam among you.
I mentioned it before. It was not taken seroulsly.
I might no comprehend the symbio idea fully, and certainly not the details.
But do you comprehend what synergy in networks can do?

Someone mentioned exponentially growing curves.


you're completely ignorant of the history of sym's development. you blow up a minor problem to declare the entire system to be broken.  that's a troll spewing, not the constructive criticism that you claim to be dispensing from on high.

the customer will get their download. failure of a link to a download is NOT a major security breach, and symbiostock will continue to evolve. 

and what does a Nigerian scam possibly have to do with a photo site?  just more trollspeak to * the process since you don't have any real facts  to make your case.  and what authority should we place in an anonymous poster who doesn't give any liks to their own work?

quailrunphoto

« Reply #73 on: July 22, 2013, 12:01 »
+7
Just my opinion:

I believe that JPSDK has accomplished his goal of getting everyone upset.

For me this thread does not enhance my day and takes time about having fun with Symbiostock.  So I am dropping this thread.

Unless you enjoy talking to a brick wall, I would recommend you do the same.

David

« Reply #74 on: July 22, 2013, 12:38 »
0
Just my opinion:

I believe that JPSDK has accomplished his goal of getting everyone upset.

For me this thread does not enhance my day and takes time about having fun with Symbiostock.  So I am dropping this thread.

Unless you enjoy talking to a brick wall, I would recommend you do the same.

David


Done

jsfoto

  • flashstockphoto.com
« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2013, 12:40 »
+2
...

I wont bother you anymore.
...


Actually I would appreciate that ...

(Everything else I thought was said by others ... in better and more friendly words than those I had in mind)
« Last Edit: July 22, 2013, 12:42 by jsfoto »

« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2013, 18:35 »
0

« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2013, 19:05 »
-1
you guys sound like members of a cult.

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2013, 19:22 »
+1
you guys sound like members of a cult.
Kool-Aid anyone?

« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2013, 19:23 »
0
you guys sound like members of a cult.
Kool-Aid anyone?

Jeff owns the copyright ;D

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2013, 19:25 »
0
I've been wrestling with the idea:

Should I lock this thread or make it sticky?

Leo Blanchette

« Reply #81 on: July 22, 2013, 20:08 »
+1
---
Nevermind. This is a silly thread not worth the effort.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2013, 01:57 by Leo »

« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2013, 02:30 »
-2
hey guys
my 1st post here
I have made the registration on the forums with the single idea to ask details about stocksy.com, since i do not intend to start working with other microstock agencies. But as i was lurking the forums, i've found symbio....
Now, it all looks interesting and all and I do think i have some kind of experience building websites with WP so installing it won't be a problem.
The real problem is what exactly is symbio??? Does it bring you visitors and traffic in some miraculous way? Does it simply acts like a basket for buying photos? Does it works undercover to provide hundreds of backlinks from other sites and thus tricking google into thinking you have authority??
Cause if it is the latter, then sooner or later you're gonna get whipped!
Please explain to me what the benefits of this plugin are. I wasn't interested at first in building my own website, i'm just happy sharing my work in 500px, but if this can drive sales, i will happily do it
Please, im not trying to troll or something. Just need more info

« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2013, 03:14 »
+1
Symbiostock is a network of individual photographers sites. You link to others in the network to improve your seo. Others will also link to you.
Come and join the fun

« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2013, 03:32 »
+1
Leo, I think you should have left your post then locked the thread and let it drop down the list.


 

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